Yes, the geometry would remain. In Poser, the technical side (text file hacking) enhances the abilities of the application, drastically. It allows small content creators to innovate on a level with larger competitors.

LW and Max are great. But, I think perhaps they are not exactly analogous to Poser and D|S, because of price and the lack of support from small, inexpensive, third party content providers. The content marketplace for Poser isn't unique, but it is uniquely inexpensive. I believe monopolization of the Poser content market would probably alter the paradigm and cause the majority of content presentation application users to look away from D|S. I suspect the content marketplace has been largely responsible for keeping Poser alive.

Thats not to say I believe DAZ is attempting to monopolize content creation. Its possible, but I hope they are not, for their sake and ours.

Anton, I think the points to take away from all this are 1. That just because DAZ says they are working on some sort of technological advancement for the next Mil Man doesn't mean they'll follow through with it all the way to satisfy the most customers. 2. That even if new D|S technology is available for the figures, that doesn't mean it will be necessarily easy to use by the hobbiest consumer. I think CL's face and hair rooms are good examples are that factor. 3. Some people will be more apt to stick with P4 and P5 rather than investing in specialized content for D|S. ----- Deecey, I don't think this will change the way things are packaged simply because the hobbiest user isn't as likely to own multiple 3D programs. I think a lot of consumers want to product in an easy-use format with the most functionality possible (with emphasis on the word "easy"). It makes for an interesting question though... :)

sorry deecey, i think i misread your post...

Hehehehe ... that's ok LOL

Good points, PBM.

I dont' know why we keep going on and on about this. Anton has already made up his mind (or DAZ made it up for him) not to finish Maximus, DAZ has their own thoughts about what a figure should be, no one is going to change their minds about that or the way they do it, and they are really running the show, so anything we say isn't going to change anyone's mind so I don't know why we keep rambeling on about it.

K Thanks for feedback guys. If I want to broker at Daz I jave to be quiet now. So I am going to leave this thread now. Regards, Anton

MachineClaw--"IF Daz holds back, plays big brother or evil empire this community of poser users will balk faster than you can spin a dial." I agree with this point. But Daz folks don't strike me as stupid, so I doubt it would come to that. I think the real risk for "cottage" artists is more along the lines of the Industrial Revolution: as a market expands, a large company can create tools and processes that make it possible to crank out high-quality goods, at a lower cost than "cottage" outfits. Customers: happy. Competition: dead. As a technologist, this is how I read DAZ' comments. Not that they are doing anything menacing, just that they can afford to develop tools and processes that will be hard to cost-effectively compete with. Combine that with their fore-knowledge of their own plans for DAZ Studio evolution... What's hard about this, is that most of the active members of this community are at least somewhat "competition" to DAZ. Yes, much uncertainty for anyone independent. Being little fish is risky, especially in changing times. But there is a plus side to all this. Maybe Daz will succeed in growing this market -- a lot. Poser has struggled pathetically its entire existence. Look for niches as the market grows. Like Anton and his "hair" - something he knows he can do well, hence be successful at. I imagine he'll eventually see some tempting opportunity, once the new landscape becomes less molten lava :-D

Daz already responded to this in their forums. Look for the locked thread in the D|S forum I believe.

Thanks, I'll look for that thread.

can someone transcribe that thread here for those of us who aren't PC members

The thread that I think everyone is referring to is pretty long, so here's a very quick recap: Basically, Brian Brandenburg said that yes, developers outside of DAZ are going to be able to work with the D|S structure. There are no plans to shut everyone out of D|S if they don't broker with DAZ. Further in the thread, rbtwhiz said that, yes, DAZ will have a head start with any content for D|S since DAZ is creating D|S and its tools. It's kinda hard not to have a head start on making content for the program if you're the ones creating the program to begin with. Look at it this way, when Ford comes out with a new car, it can come out with "after market" items such as dashboard covers more quickly than other manufacturers because they've been working with the car since conception. That doesn't mean that no other company can make dashboard covers that fit the new Ford car. There will simply be a delay for third party manufacturers because they have to wait for the car to come out before they can get all the specs, fit the covers, make the promos featuring the new cover on the new car, etc. (BTW: that analogy is mine so if it's awkward, please yell at me, not Brian or rbtwhiz.) ;-) Hope this helps, Cres

I think you're right on the mark, Crescent!

ok... so its not an issue of excluding the 3rd party market, just delaying it.

A small delay can't be helped. They have to create the tools first, and test them.

[Not in response to any particular post above.] I have read Daz comments, both in the lengthy locked thread initiated by movida, that developed into a meltdown between rbtwhiz and Anton: forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=3402 and in Bryan's "official" thread in the Commons: forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=30299 As a longtime technologist, I find DAZ' actions entirely reasonable. Unfortunately, the concerns raised by Anton and others are also well-founded. I have tried to point out the validity and depth of such concerns, drawing on my experience inside other companies, in posts in the latter thread. My hope is that a public discussion of fundamental tensions in this situation, will lead to something positive. At minimum, to fewer sudden surprises. So, wander on over there, and add YOUR two cents :-D

In case I didn't make that clear: the second thread mentioned is in a place everyone can access -- you don't have to be Platinum Club member. So, its a good place to engage DAZ representatives in a thoughtful, public, discussion. - - - - - Crescent - your Ford analogy is brilliant.

Crescent has misquoted and is mistaken.

How so? I saw the same threads?

whatever

Anton, please tell me where I'm wrong and I'll be glad to fix my mistake(s). Thanks, Cres

Anton, I feel that Crescent has reasonably conveyed DAZ people's statements. In THAT sense, he is not "mistaken". The important question is, are their actions matching their words? You have made it clear that, from your perspective, you encountered something in DAZ' actions, that deeply troubles you. Those of us who are watching all this from the "outside", have no way of sorting truth from fiction in all this. You've raised a "warning" flag. We see your warning. Maybe best to let the matter lie for a time? I hate to see you dig yourself into an even deeper funk. It just isn't worth it... Please have faith in the community as a whole. However much you may feel personally hurt, trust that there is some way for us all to stumble forward.

trips falls on face rolls over I want to go back the way I came, I don't want to go forward anymore, it's a scary place.

Anton, I'm going to echo Steve a bit. We are aware, as consumers and developers, we are aware. If product cycles are anything like non-linear dynamics, you may have flapped the butterfly's wing at the right time to nudge the course, but it may also be best to see where this cycle goes before flapping yourself against the glass. Carolly

I like to watch the grass grow. If your very still the butterflies will land very close and they are very pretty. The old man rocks at night. The old man rocks at night.

Carolly, thank you so much for such a poetic statement. That has the "right feeling" to me. :-D

This thread is pretty long and this topic is obviously a sore spot for Anton. Perhaps it would be best to have it locked and resume this if and when Anton is ready.

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=3596

Here is Bryan's latest statement of DAZ view on their plans going forward, including their decision to keep some features in Studio proprietary to their own models [i.e., what Anton said they were about to do, is indeed what they are doing. So give Anton credit for pointing this out.] What Bryan says, makes sense to me. I can work with this. And I am committed to making tools that help EVERYONE. You won't be COMPLETELY at the mercy of the "giant". I hope I am one small voice in a chorus showing that we can ALL benefit -- even if it is unavoidably true that the major beneficiary is DAZ. Believe me, beats the heck out of behavior by the dominant company in every industry *I've* ever seen! I'm not saying they are saints. But what human beings are? Maybe DAZ actually needs us third-party folk :-D

Thanks Steve.

While your here notice what was said about Daz' new male. No mention of mesh or morphs. Just Mil male, same thing they are calling it.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/newsletter/daz/newsletter4_29_04.html?refid=885759917

Daz Newsletter dated April 29, 2004 "Come into the DAZ|Forum:Members-Only area and join in the discussion surrounding DAZ's upcoming male Millennium Figure and help pick out his name." The newsletter is at the link provided. The small image of the upcoming male millennium figure looks like Maximus, I actually thoguht it was Maximus with a M3 texture on it when I saw the tiny picture. I don't have PClub access so haven't seen more preview pictures.

Anton, randym77 posted this pic from the DAZ forums in a thread about Puck. As you can see, he still has that definite unimesh look. DAZ only provided previews to PC members. Those of us who bought Puck were a bit upset that the two figures had not been developed into one product since Puck has had little support. I think plenty of people will buy this new figure provided that he is immediately supported or that M3 items can be fitted down. Definitely think about my suggestion about Maximus...

Steve, yeah DAZ needs 3rd party people because they only make figures and not clothes or hair.

I asked in the forum, and it I was told this guy will need his own wradrobe.

LOL... no doubt. I just don't think this figure was what people had in mind when they complained about M3. Yeah, it satisfies the whole teen boy niche that DAZ failed at with the MilBoy. How history repeats itself, that figure was also based off of Vicki's mesh. I have not heard any merchants claiming to be working on content for the new unimesh figure so it should be interesting. I will probably buy him to use him as a shorter adult, but I was definitely looking more forward to playing with Maximus :(

I mention my comments above again because of the post said I was trying to mislead people to think this new figure was a new mesh. I have pointed out to them what I wrote above never suggested anything of the sort. Even they call it a Mil figure. I simply would like it observed that I did not mislead anyone. Thanks and Regards, Anton