Attached Link: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-sims-2/530883p1.html

SIMS 2, Due Out September 17,--- Review By GameSpy:

Here are some excerpts- you can read the 3 page review on the link above.

"In a recent interview, game designer Will Wright said that the many expansion packs for The Sims helped the design team figure out the feature set for The Sims 2. The sequel goes completely over the top: we're talking about wild
passion, sprawling mansions, generational conflicts, high hopes, shattered dreams, aliens and ghost stories. Not to mention copious Woo Hoo. Sims 2 is an open-ended computer toy. It looks to have everything that made the original
game unique and special, but with even more of the fun stuff."

"We've created a great intersection of storytelling and gameplay," explained Producer Jonathan Knight. Part of the joy of the original game was watching the life story of a family unfold, and The Sims 2 builds this into gameplay. You can create your own families and write their own stories as well, even uploading them or others to share."

"Considerable effort has been put into making The Sims 2 into a more fully-featured architectural simulation. The new 3D engine helps a lot here.

But the options are staggering. Not only is there more furniture than ever before, but most furniture can be reupholstered or stained in different colors. Terrain can be painted onto the ground as if with an airbrush, so you can create winding outdoor paths that look natural."

"Everything you create -- towns, town maps, houses, families, and more can be uploaded to the Internet with the click of a button. We figure it won't be long before the number of people and places you can download will be staggering. The online community, aggressively supported by Maxis and EA, was a big draw for the first game and they're aiming for a repeat performance."

Attached Link: http://thesims2.ea.com/videos_1_play_hi.php

Perhaps the most interesting new feature is the ability to take movies, to literally record video of a Sims'story, then edit and upload it to share with others.

What I don't like about this Sims game is that apparently the characters only speak in "Simlish" and don't have real voice tracks available. It's too bad they didn't include a tool-kit to allow this since it would seem to be a desirable add-on feature. (Maybe this could be done in "post" using a good video editor for those with the inclination.)

OPPORTUNITIES for "Moon-Lighting" Poser Modelers???

The characters seem to have a low-poly mesh- probably equating to Poser 3 level, but with somewhat better texture mats. It would be really interesting if Poser 4 level meshes (not actual Poser OBJ's- but something on that level)
could be a SIMS 2 add-on- I am sure people owning faster machines could support them.

It would certainly seem that by either SIM's 3 - or a 64 bit release, the SIMS could be well on their way to replacing a segment of the current Poser market
that are seeking REAL-TIME animation and character interactivity.

Another advantage of Upgradable SIM characters could also be
a potential SALE of a Poser software level character- that is,some Simmers who would also like their Sim Characters so muchthat they would want to move onto a higher level of REALISM- an intro also for Poser Artist or DAZ Studio.

It would sure seem like a SMART MOVE to begin this kind of
subtle inter-linking between SIM and Poser level characters
now, rather than wait until some even SMARTER model-making
company runs off with this idea and forms an OFFICIAL relationship with the makers of the SIMS software...

Again, engine specific. This will be awesome for folks who like to game. But again, you are going over the top in enthusiasm and emphasis.

Games ARE having a new Dynamic effect on the Poser marketplace... The original P3-P4 Zygote characters were created to be internally used Poser characters for still renders and basic animations. But after Poser characters reached a peak in the high realism of the V and M series from DAZ, the marketplace has now swung over to a new market influenced largely by toon animations and games. GAMES apparently are how the creators of GIRL and HER make their livings--- Kim Goossens works for Playlogic as an art drector and GAME concepts designer--Playlogic is a publisher and developer of GAMES for game consoles, PC's, mobile phones and handhelds. http://www.playlogicinternational.com/ Sixus1 Media story behind HER is that she's by artist Pascal Blanche, art director for Ubisoft's Myst IV GAME project. http://www.ubi.com/US/Downloads/Default.htm

Attached Link: http://www.fileplanet.com/files/140000/140516.shtml

The Sims 2 Body Shop is a stand-alone tool to create & design unique and diverse Sims that players can use in The Sims 2 and offer to other players.

erm... why? the above pictures look exactly like what they are. game graphics. nothing more, nothing less. now, compare those to the artworks in the gallery. no contest. Veritas, there is no 'Make Art Button', there never will be. game engines will not provide this. you forget, that even in a game like the Sims, everything is scripted so it looks right everytime. try that with a 3D Art package.... the features you tout in quite a few posts, are ethier game engine only, 3D card only or dependant on features of a card that not everyone will have. at this time and for the forseeable future, gxf card features have no place in 3D artwork outside of games. it will take a major redesign of the AGP Bus to do this. (New MB time). right now, just look at the eye candy and calm down ok?

Attached Link: http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_duskdemo_home.html

The SIMS have already made MILLIONS for their creators- if the hardware is so specialized- how can so many home-consumer users be buying and using it? Who is the SIMS 2 targeted at- NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab scientists? No-
MILLIONS of people already own the hardware and software,
so that's not a limitation. The SIMS is one of the most wildly popular games ever. The creators are now greatly improving it. Do "I" want it, NO. That's not the point.

Actually, you are totally missing my point here- but I know some of the others who will pass through WILL get "it".
That's who I'm showing this to- people who are not wearing blinders and can only see what the little Poser fishpond has to offer. It is the reason I think why so many others spend more time at the CGChannel or someplace else, because some Poser users really are amazingly narrow-minded.

Here's a link provided by Cuba in one of our earlier GMAX
related forum discussions. This "Dusk" video is absolutely
incredible when you understand that it was made "REAL TIME"
on a GeForce card using nVidia software. This is more like a Poser "scene" but the animation is REAL TIME but recorded to WMV for people who don't own a GeForce card--

The character is very likely DAZ's Victoria 2, but there are
no notes to confirm this- but see for yourself...

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_duskdemo_home.html

Click on the Dusk Video WMV (16 MB) and it should start to
play fairly quickly-

Key Features:
Realistic Skin: Dusk's skin is a custom fragment shader that includes shadowing, diffuse and specular color, bump, and a simple subsurface scattering effect. Realistic Hair: Her hair is comprised entirely of geometry and is only possible due to the high-performance vertex shaders of the GeForce FX 5900 GPUs. Together, vertex and fragment shaders allow for an anisotropic lighting model, resulting in extremely realistic hair.

More videos here: http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_downloads_nvidia.html

Message edited on: 07/23/2004 23:48

So what exactly are you proposing here, Veritas? What is it you want Poser to do for this "market"? Also, you previously mentioned Myst IV... you do realise the high-quality cinematic scenes in that game were created in 3dsMax with the Vray renderer, and are not done real-time.

Message edited on: 07/24/2004 00:07

I owned the original Sims, and although I thought it was very original (and fun for a while), I always played it 'seriously', which makes it get very boring very quickly. If the Sims 2 has online play and more life paths to take, I might try it too. However, I think it's only the artists and modelers that can bridge any gap between gaming and rendering. I believe there was a old member here named Rhed who made some truly amazing skins for the original Unreal Tournament. Jim Burton and Anton also are involved in creating game content if memory serves too. I really doubt that there will ever be software that will fulfill what gamers need and what artists want, as each medium has different requirements. Helping artists learn what they need to enter the gaming world and showing gamers how much more they can create using advanced rendering software would be more helpful in my opinion. Thanks for the shots though, they look good. Take care. SnowS

Attached Link: http://www.chaosgroup.com/news/20040609-01.html

Ok, Veritas, let me point out why you get the sort of feedback you do. It's really simple, and really silly, but it is going to happen ad nauseaum 'cause it's just the nature of things. It's the way you present the information. Nobody's disagreeing with you that these are cool things. But you present it as an "alternative" and you say it is the "future" of Poser -- an application created for and marketed to an entirely different market than you are bringing up, and you are doing this in a forum dedicated to that same market. So of course you'll get folks looking at the stuff (and all of us reply because we are interested, btw -- if we thought it was bunk, we'd be moving on after a soft chuckle) and of course you're gonna get a sort of "you gotta be kidding me" response. Now, I'm gonna take your points one by one -- come and match me on them :) "An ALTERNATIVE Poser-Daz FUTURE---- The Sims?" Ok, this is a good one, since a LOT of poser folks have used Poser stuff to make mods and hacks for The Sims (1) and there's a pretty nice little niche market there for them. There was once even a segment of the store and a forum for it here, too (may still be). "Perhaps the most interesting new feature is the ability to take movies, to literally record video of a Sims'story, then edit and upload it to share with others. " I agree -- this is a VERY cool feature. I know some sims addict that are gonna love that. "I am certain that there is a sizable segment of the continuous Poser Newbie influx that is looking MORE for a SIMS-Like experience than a get-down-and-technical Poser slow-scene-render experience. Obviously there are people who like Poser and DAZ characters on the complex, highly realistic side, but I would still bet that a SIGNIFICANT growth market will be in the direction the SIMS are headed. I personally am not interested in getting the SIMS 2, but I can see that it will have very broad marketplace appeal." Without a doubt there are folks looking for something that lets them make pretty pictures with simple stuff. There are always people looking for that. And the ones that are serious about it will stick with the tools already extant, while the ones that are not will get the three or four pics they want and move on. Those people already exist, btw -- they are tubbers -- and again, there are merchants who use poser VERY well to cater to these needs. This is called clip art in the world of illustration. You say the direction the SIMS are headed in. And that direction is what? It certainly isn't a program designed to create and render original artistic images or to create orginal and compelling animations and it's definitely not the direction to which Renderosity as a community (not as a business) caters. As for a broad market appeal, yes, within it's segment of role players and gamers (and there is a great deal of cross-over there between people who like poser and people who like these things) it will enjoy a great deal of popularity. But note that Games, on a socioeconomic level, have much more in common with movies than they do movie cameras -- that is, the games are more like the final renders than Poser. Operating from a different perspective on the basis of "thinking outside the box" is fine, but you would have to re-invent the wheel to do so. Games -- including this one -- are Entertainment. While creating art with poser is entertaining, it is not entertainment -- that would be enjoying the fruits of the labor done with Poser (the gallery). "One alternative scenerio here would be if Poser-Daz and/or independent Poser character makers were to offer Sims 2 owners UPGRADABLE higher-rez characters that would make their Sim People more realistic, and early-on becoming part of an inevitable march towards and even MORE REALISTIC Sim 3 version witin another year or so." Now, here you are venturing into the territory of content creation. FOr these figures to be upgradeable, there would need to be a format conversion and understanding of the basic design needs -- and you can bet your sweet arse that thee are content creators who are already looking at this -- and seriously too. What gets everyones goat is the "shouting" (caps) that makes it resemble one of those late night informercials where everyone shouts about how awesome and stupendous everything is. "...after Poser characters reached a peak in the high realism of the V and M series from DAZ, the marketplace has now swung over to a new market influenced largely by toon animations and games." Two problems here. 1 -- the V3 and M3 models aren't even close to a peak of reality. They rely on hacks and an old, curmudgeonly boning system that has never been sriously looked at improving much beyond the basics originally created for P3. The Poser bones system has a lot of drawbacks, but it's full potential has yet to be properly explored in human figures let alone any others. And as far as mesh, still not quite at a Peak either. And to prove that point further, note that there will be a V4 and M4 still. 2 -- the influx of toon and game stuff has been around since Poser 3 at least, and if memory serves me properly, earlier. So you are assuming that the growth of the merchanting market and the greater segmentation of the galleries here is indicative of a shift -- that's bad sociology. Worse, that oversimplification on a grand scale. You then go one to note that the makers of some of these products work on games and so forth. Well, what do you think the creators of poser worked on -- and, in some cases, still work on? There are tons of folks out there using poser to create games right now -- it's often the first step beginning game designers go to. Why? Because all games these days require the content to be created and pre rendered first. In other words, the technical, slow-render part is done already so that the end user can see these "immediate" results. These people are regular vistors to the forum, as well -- in fact, one of my partners in crime right now is finsihing up some core imagery for a game she's been working on for 8 years. There was a post not too long ago that directed folks to a game with imagery created using products from right here in the marketplace. The people who do get your point are already doing it -- and the rest are going -- um, hey -- the stuff you are talking about will ONLY work if it is used with the specific engine it is built for. You cannot take stuff that works in one engine and use it in a different engine. Game engines are extremely complex items, and the competition is fierce to get them licensed by developers for use in other games. Which is moot, as that limits your ability to effectively create content easily. It's similar to the fact that you cannot take a poser figure and use it -- as is -- in 3ds max or Cinema 4 D without some sort of plug-in or other conversion utility. And if you are looking for those concersion utilities to be made, then you are posting in the most wrong spot possible. Your video link is a nice video -- but bear in mind thatall the stuff to make it was already created. The figures were boned for a specific format. "Her hair is comprised entirely of geometry and is only possible due to the high-performance vertex shaders of the GeForce FX 5900 GPUs" is not accurate as you present it -- the geometry is not created real time -- it already exists. All they are doing is rendering it -- and those particular features are possible in Poser, I should note -- without needing that particular card to get them. Your emphasis on "real time" is completely forgetting the amount of work that goes into creating all of the properties that make those renders as realistic as they do as quickly as they do -- and there are several "shortcuts" built into the shader language and Direct X that are used to "fool the eye" -- features which are all already possible in Poser 5, 3ds Max, Lightwave, Pixels3D, Cinema4D, and Carrara -- and have been for some time. Without these applications and their even bigger retheren, none of those super cool "real time" effects would be possible. Oh, and the figure is V2, and the hair was created using a hair plug-in for maya. Now, all of that said, I still enjoy your posts -- you find really cool stuff. Don't stop. Just don't freak when folks seem to be picking on your ideas.

Excellent post, ynsaen! You were able to articulate what I had been thinking much better than I ever could have. ;-) "and there are several "shortcuts" built into the shader language and Direct X that are used to "fool the eye" -- features which are all already possible in Poser 5, 3ds Max, Lightwave, Pixels3D, Cinema4D, and Carrara -- and have been for some time." You are correct of course. In 3dsMax, for example, as with other applications like Lightwave, you can "bake" the lighting and textures into the model for use in a gaming engine. The same process has been used for many years in the movie industry when lengthy CG/FX shots were called for. I like you, Veritas... you have incredible enthusiasm, and I'm certainly not picking on you. It's just that sometimes your posts remind me of a Don Lapri infomercial at 3am: "I went from painting houses to making $80,000 a week from my one bedroom apartment! And you can do it too if you buy my package!" hehe. (In the case of Don Lapri, I always wondered why, if he was making so much money, did he still live in his one bedroom apartment? LOL. But I digress). :-))

I don't own the SIMS1 and I don't know if I'll buy the SIMS2.
I love the mad scientist lab and the aliens living in the haunted house, but taking care of grandparents, dealing with brothers' brawls, managing the child's cries, coping with my teenager's problems with the police...
Well, I have enough of my life !
I don't watch sitcoms nor "reality" TV.

This said, there is probably a segment of users common to Poser and the SIMS.
Their common interest is simple : sex.

The SIMS2 site makes heavy use of sexy pictures : kisses, women tearing off their bust covers, teenagers kissing, adults rolling on the sofa, teenagers in school uniforms, women's brawl...

On the Poser end, well, we all have seen in the galleries (here or elsewhere) a huge number of terrible pictures whose only focus was to depict a certain number of people (well, mostly people) indulging in various degrees or forms of sexual intercourse.

I think there is definitely a market for a program that would allow one to chose the cast and modify the partners according to one's own tastes (blonde dark skinned alien mixer for instance) and hit the "have sex" button, with the possibility to choose some imposed figures.
A "bondage SIMS" add-on would probably sell like hot cakes.

As Ynsaen put it so cleverly, this is not Art,just entertainment. But Veritas might be right himself when he says that there could be a bunch of money to make in this field.

Message edited on: 07/24/2004 05:09

Quote: "Their common interest is simple: sex."

I played The Sims Online for nearly a year from shortly after Beta Testing until it spiraled down into a world of Mafia's and prostitution. Sex is alive and well in the Sims world and it's called TSO. But I digress...

The Sims 2 will be huge for the market it caters to. Most people I know rarely play their game...they just like to landscape, build houses and decorate them. Unfortunatley, it's a lot like Poser in that unless you have the software available to make your own custom content, you have to rely on other people's "freebies" to make it interesting. The provided content from Maxis is...in a word, boring. It was the fansites with their game hacks and cheats and "House Building Contests" that made it fun. (**Sounds like Poser eh?) If it weren't for the fans creating custom content, the Sims would have died a long time ago.

I've downloaded "Bodyshop" and it does have that "Poser Feel" to it. I thought it was....interesting.

All in all it's going to disappoint a lot of people because it's going to require a really kick-butt computer to even play it. I've already heard the grumblings amongst people over that. People will purchase it, try to play it on a 2 year old computer then be angry because it won't run. I predict stock in Best Buy will go thru the roof from people buing new computers in September.

I'll buy it, I'll try it...then I'll probably delete it from my computer cause it'll be sucking up all my valuable Runtime space.

Message edited on: 07/24/2004 06:27

The Sims 2 will be huge for the market it caters to. Most people I know rarely play their game...they just like to landscape, build houses and decorate them.

That's been my experience, too. People who don't know about Poser, or don't have the time or patience to learn it, use The Sims instead. If you look around the net, some people have put up elaborate "graphic novels," running hundreds of pages, using Sims screenshots. Sometimes, the characters are TV or movie characters, so it becomes a sort of illustrated fanfic.

I think there is some overlap with Poser here. (Not all Poser users, of course, just some.) And there could be huge bucks in it, because the market for Sims stuff is humongous compared to the market for Poser.

Then there are games like The Movies:

http://www.themoviesgame.com/

It's sort of like The Sims, only you can direct the action and make your own movies. I suspect this is what many Sims and Poser users really want to do.

I personally can't wait for Sims 2..... although i don't see what it has to do with poser.. Sims 2 stuff is made with Maya. I have had my own sims website for 4 years... and i ain't bored yet!!! hehe roll on september.. :D Btw... if you can run Sims Bodyshop ok, your PC can handle TS2!!

Message edited on: 07/24/2004 10:26

I would love to see a version poser where you could design or create a new original figure from scratch and drop it into a game engine.

Wouldn't you love to see your fav poser creations walking and jumping to a standard game control pad?

I know the figures would have to be lower res, but it would still be cool.

Most home game consoles are very low powered and yet have very good looking sprites. An example would be Ninja Gaiden or DOA vollyball.

You actually don't even need a PC to use a detailed character creator. WWE Smackdown: Here Comes the Pain! for Playstation 2 has the most advanced character editor I've seen on a console; it allows you to use XYZ coordinates to shape the body and face of your wrestler and choose from quite a number of brow, eye, mouth, and nose presets. It's not Poser by any means, but I've seen surprisingly realistic recreations of real wrestlers and other celebrities done with it. SnowS

"Btw... if you can run Sims Bodyshop ok, your PC can handle TS2!!" hell a 486DX2 can handle TS2.. hang on tS2 = trueSpace2 don't it?

"... tS2 = trueSpace2 don't it? ... " LOL.... not anymore :P

Attached Link: http://www.machinima.com/

http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html

Well, as usual, all I've wanted to do is start a thread about an ALTERNATIVE Poser-DAZ FUTURE (note the word alternative). It needs to be discussed, because the people
who own Poser and DAZ just MIGHT have their marketplace taken away from them in the next couple of years by GAME companies using 64 bit operating systems and software like nVidia's (hope you saw the very impressive REAL-TIME "DUSK" video near the top of this thread).

I think if the ORIGINAL Poser development team of Fractal Design folks were still developing Poser now, by Poser 6 they would be very much more in the area of "The Sims 2"
and what randym77's link to www.themoviesgame.com would suggest (a more ADULT and CINEMATIC type of SIMS game).

As hopefully most of you realize, while Poser and DAZ can go on making high-rez models and software that renders pretty pictures, it is NOT a major marketplace like the massive appeal that something like the SIMS or other new impressive game producers are now creating and delivering.

The people who own Poser and DAZ Productions need to SERIOUSLY consider the importance of the fast rising realism of games, game characters and the HUGE amounts of money this means to model-makers and character developers.

To ignore this (like it or not) would be extremely foolish.

And in the meantime- my MAIN point was that Poser model makers can cash-in on the SIMS 2 marketplace (and other game toolsets) until the day Poser and DAZ finally either offer their own Game Toolsets, or they disappear under the waves of brighter, more faster thinking Game developers.

"until the day Poser and DAZ finally either offer their own Game Toolsets, or they disappear under the waves of brighter, more faster thinking Game developers." When there's no longer a demand for digital art, perhaps. ;) SnowS

I'm under the impression that I've made just about the only 100% original (no Maxis mesh) SIMs 1 figures. They were sorta fun to do, never sold many though, I gather SIMs plays don't spend much money other than at the game store. They are ultra, ultra low-res, the reason they look so good is because of the nice textures- the disadvatage to that is they aren't really 3D, because the textures have so much shadow detailing that is 2D, and doesn't change with lighting. It will be intresting to see what the SIMs 2 figures will be like, though, but I'm not expecting a real-time Poser. ;-)

*"DAZ can go on making high-rez models and
software that renders pretty pictures,
it is NOT a major marketplace like the massive
appeal that something like the SIMS or other
new impressive game producers are now
creating and delivering."

Do you have any numbers that indicate how "Massive"
that appeal is????

If one looks
at the recent partnership DAZ has formed
with Newtek (The Makers Of the venerable Lightwave3D)
it seem obvious that DAZ has a Plan for the future
of its content.

*"until the day Poser and DAZ
finally either offer their own Game Toolsets,
or they disappear under the waves of brighter,
more faster thinking Game developers."

DAZ Will survive if they continue to create quality content and
Character rendering programs that their BASE market demands
as well as expand thier market as DAZ seem to be doing with its
Newtek partnership.
if they do fail or "Dissapear" it will likely be
because someone has created a better program
that offers the same kinds of point and click access to
high quality 3D content.
NOT because its user base has switched over to the "sims"
or some other game engine based program for creating their art
You seem conviced that any one who makes 3D characters etc
had somehow better rush to jump on the "Sims" Gravy train
or they are Doomed ;-)

This just is NOT the case in the real world.

Message edited on: 07/24/2004 14:48

"As hopefully most of you realize, while Poser and DAZ can go on making high-rez models and software that renders pretty pictures, it is NOT a major marketplace like the massive appeal that something like the SIMS or other new impressive game producers are now creating and delivering." Veritas777, Did you even READ ynsaen's post? Or mine before that: Myst IV was created mostly in MAX, with the Vray renderer to produce the highest quality results before being transferred to the game. There's always going to be a need for programs that do "pretty pictures". This discussion was already made at length recently on CGtalk.com amongst professionals who WORK in the industry, and the concensus was that YES, eventually games will be able to produce the kind of photorealism you can achieve in most high end renderers today (and I include Firefly in there too), but it's not going to be here for a relatively long time, and won't be possible without the programs we have out there today that allow the game makers to do the things they do. The movie you gave as an example above is very good, but as ynsaen pointed out, they're using V2 and the hair was made in MAYA. So how exactly would DAZ lose their market share if their CURRENT figures are being used in this process already? I see your point on the market being a big one, but there's also a huge market for making "pretty pictures" (your words) as well... MOVIES are nothing more than a series of still images, and the demand for CG composite shots and FX in the movie industry is very big right now, and only getting bigger. The same for music videos, etc. where DAZ figures have already been used.

"...I think if the ORIGINAL Poser development team of Fractal Design folks were still developing Poser now, by Poser 6 they would be very much more in the area of "The Sims 2"..." Note that the "original team from fractal design" was with Poser until quite recently. And I do mean the original -- They continued to own the code. So this is erroneous. As for the bulk of the rest of your points, please re-read my comments hon -- I already addressed all of them in my previous commentary -- so right now you are simply restating your position, and more or less ignoring what I said. This is proven even more strongly by your last statement. Those game toolsets (which are engine specific -- including the ones you linked to above (and those are hardware specific)) you are talking about are already in existence. Avatar lab allows folks to create figures for adobe atmosphere. so, again, this is nothing new or startling -- it has been around for a long, long time. And lastly for me, Jim Burton raises a point I've been loathe to bring up myself. And that's that these folks don't spend money on 3rd party add-ons. And there a TONS of third party add-ons for Sims1 and most of the other games you speak of -- but free. The pay-for's don't exist or don't do well, and therefore it's not a valid market for your near term predicitions.

btw -- for figurative reference: General estimates on first and second teir pc based gamers indicate -- at best, mind you -- a market of less than 8 million folks (US) to 23 Million (worldwide) Nothing to sneeze at by any means, but keep in mind still that it's less than half of 1% of the population of the United States, and less than one tenth of one percent of the world population. Massive is defined pretty darned narrowly....

Well actually the irony of all this is that I have personally made a very comfortable living with "pretty Pictures" myself- but as you may or may not know (or care), I don't post them in the Renderosity Gallery. I use Poser, MAX and Lightwave- as well as Vue and Bryce, and my final app is always Photoshop. I began using 3D software in 1985 using the (then) highly innovative Targa 16 and later Targa 24-32 series. FULL COLOR and Hi-Rez, way back in the 80's! (Before some of you were even born, maybe). I also produced some of the very first CD-ROM titles and made LOTS of $$$ selling them in Japan, where the Japanese are always hot for the very latest technology (and where they were early adaptors of CD-ROM's since they MADE THEM, heh!) I was also using PhotoShop when the Knoll brothers still owned it and it was called "XP". Mainly I'm the kind of guy who looks for future trends and gets on them before most other people do, make money with them, and then bail out into another hot trend. By the time the trend has peaked, I'm out of it. It's very much like surfing, which I was also into in my younger days. (Actually, I like horseback riding now- since I'm very fond of horses). But yes, my constant POUNDING of the keyboard is because I am excited and see a major turning-point trend already. Large fortunes (or at least very comfortable lifestyles) are and will be created by getting early on into areas where the "experts" are Nay-Saying and Pooh-Poohing as "not possible, too far away, not likely," etc. I remember very well when I started my multimedia CD-ROM company how many people said "Hardly anyone OWNS a CD-ROM player- you will only sell as few", etc. I made $500,000 in my first year- (1991 -when there was a major war and the US was in a major recession) and I was then still an absolute IDIOT at running a business! A few bright people out there will "sense" the possiblities and in the next two years will transform a lot of preceptions and some of the companies that we know today, may very likely be gone.

"I remember very well when I started my multimedia CD-ROM company how many people said "Hardly anyone OWNS a CD-ROM player- you will only sell as few", etc. I made $500,000 in my first year- (1991 -when there was a major war and the US was in a major recession) and I was then still an absolute IDIOT at running a business!" Interesting. You must have built a good financial cushion for yourself over the years considering how successful you've been. Just out of curiosity, instead of trying to convince people that these other companies are 'missing the boat', why not take advantage of that perceived misfortune yourself by creating a company of your own that specializes in the areas you speak of, and hire some folks to produce the kind of content you think DAZ should consider producing? If you're already considering that, then the worst strategy you can have is trying to convince others to become your competition. ;-)

CD-Roms (and now DVD's) are a very great way to make a living. It's what I do :) And, again, hon, no one is saying that these are not trends, and that they will not produce comfortable livings for people, and that they are not opportunities. And like I said, don't stop. This is cool stuff :) Check your CD-ROM invention history, though. Your last statement is true of a great many things, and can be applied to any business or group of businesses. But you are continuing to NOT address the points or even answer the questions raised earlier. PLEASE do so. What is being said is that you are talking about The business of Entertainment, and your posts thus far are saying that Poser (which is not Entertainment) will be replaced by it, and within the next couple years. That would take a RADICAL shift that 64 bit computing is not going to be able to bring out in and of itself. Since game systems themselves do not create geometry, only manipulate it, your underlying theory is faulty.

Attached Link: Enthusiasm!!! :-)

hee hee -- now there's a golden oldie...

Yah- I was wondering what ever happened to those. It seemed that one day someone deleted almost all the posts at the DAZ Studio forum. It's been a fairly DEAD place ever since. And my Lightwave to DAZ Studio model renders were almost immediately deleted- when a lot of people were at the time asking if it could be done or not. Plus, DAZ seems to have brought development of DAZ Studio to a virtual stand-still- at least if the DAZ Studio forum is any indication. I had a lot of fun with the original DAZ Beta, and even made a $2000 project deal based upon my DAZ Dragon render in DAZ Studio using Stewer's Toon Shader. So, yes, DAZ Studio actually made me money in its initial Beta release. But I guess the important part, that I think some people here have yet to grasp, is WHAT do you do with these renders, and WHO wants to buy them, especially for $2000? Same thing with the GAME stuff- smart people will CONNECT-THE-DOTS and make money with it. The rest will just go back to what they were doing, clueless. Best TIP: Watch that Infomercial on "Make MONEY on E-BAY!" (Of course, you don't need the kit if you already know how).

And if you don't want to listen, keep your ears closed :)

Hm, you ranted and raved like a madman when I made my Z-toon tutorial...did you ever make any money using it too? If so, it's more than I ever made with it, and it's my tutorial. ; No one's telling you to shut up, your finds are often quite interesting. It's just that you just always seem to sound either like an infomercial or someone from the future. ;) SnowS

IT'S the way he TALKS like this. Veritas, PLEASE, stop emphasing things! we can READ you know and DRAW our own conclusions. right now, reading YOUR posts reads like you are ABOUT TO SAY wait! there's more! if you render in the next 10 MINUTES... please for the love of god.. stop managling the langauge and SHOUTING on every other line?

...I GUESS I'll go back to one of my OTHER hobby's, which is FLIGHT SIMULATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(And Yes, SnowSultan- Thanks again for the Z-Toon info!!!)

"...I GUESS I'll go back to one of my OTHER hobby's, which is FLIGHT SIMULATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

hey.... Wuz I an Ant or an Arfer?

LOL Maxx! Imagine how much fun the forums would be if we all started talking like that... ;) New SEAM Guides AVAILABLE!!!! Now YOU can more ACCURATELY texture the M3/DAVID TUNIC TOP with my new COLOR-CODED TEMPLATE!! Don't forget to download the V3 BOOT and PANTS GUIDES because DAZ FORGOT to tell us that they're COMPATIBLE with the MIKE 3 ones!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad you liked using the Z-toon too Veritas. I have to admit, no one's quite as enthusiastic about Poser-related stuff as you. :) SNOWS!!

"Enough biting ants and nippy little arfers..." And now , of course ,the name calling..... sheesh!!!! its hard to imagine why a self made poser $$$BILLIONAIRE$$$ has so much anger at us little peons who lack the vision to see the grand future of technology, gaming blabady blahblahblah........ One would think those beautiful Hawiian sunrises from the deck of a luxury Condo would produce a more moderate temperment Oh well. :-/

If you're already considering that, then the worst strategy you can have is trying to convince others to become your competition.

Maybe he's trying to convince others to join his company. ;-)

I do think he could be onto something. Will it mean the extinction of Poser? Probably not. I don't think Poser is for the masses. It's too slow and difficult, and likely always will be. The rise of games could eventually mean a much smaller Poser market, though. Not so much current users leaving, as the influx of new users falling, going to game stuff instead. Will this game stuff be just as good as Poser? No, probably not. But a lot of people won't care. They just want to dress up the latest toon babe in pretty clothes, and make her do what they want, without spending hours at it.

And gaming, I think, is still in its infancy. Big-name actors are just starting to lend their talents to games. (And why are they doing it? Because they suspect this is the Next Big Thing.) People don't buy a lot of Sims stuff now, but they may eventually. The prices may have to come down, though. Just as Poser users generally don't pay TurboSquid prices for models, Sims users probably won't pay Poser prices.

Having read all the above posts, here's the bottom line... Those who play games, buy games. Those who make pictures, buy graphics apps. Those who do both, buy both. Nobody knows what the future will bring in terms of either. If DAZ and CL were really, really concerned about a mass market they'd be making games, not graphics apps.