I am trying to figure out, why in Poser 4-Pro when applying DAZ's ultra catsuit(Conform to..)on V3. The catsuit fitted on all V3 characters no problem. No matter of the body morphs. Now, in P5, the Ultra catsuit doesn't Conform to properly on V3 characters. And Breasts are showing through, and other skin parts. Is it me, or is this a proplem for P5? I do have the Ultra Catsuit update installed.

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 00:19

DAZ relies on a bug in Poser 4 to make "superconforming" clothing that automatically picks up the morphs of the original figure. The bug is called crosstalk. Poser 5 mostly resolved the crosstalk bug, and as a result figures which rely on crosstalk no longer work automagically. The workaround is to select the body of the character, hit CTL-C, then switch to the same body part of the conforming clothing, and hit CTL-V. If all of the morphs are NOT done in the main body, you must do this for individual body parts.

WOW!...ok thanks Kiera. :-)

Did the "Ctrl-C" and then the "Ctrl-V". Then on some of the main body. Catsuit was going inside of the V3 character or should I say dissapearing through the characters skin. I dunno..I did a re-install, even with the update, to help solve the issue, and never did. I think the Ultra Catsuit is done for me Or I might have to reinstall everything (P5) to see if it will help repair.

Yeah..it must be my installations. I have to look at my installs. On V3 the catsuit will fit no problem. On other characters for V3, the Ultra catsuit is a problem for me on them.

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 00:54

Make sure the catsuit contains all the morphs used in the character. Also, after you do the Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V thing, check the morph dials. If you did it right, the morph dials in the catsuit should be the same as the morph dials in the character.

Strange, I tried this too but my starting position looks completely different as to Kiera's screenshot. I have only poke-thru on V3 arms and breasts. The CTL-C, CTL-V on the body does not help for body, and if I do it for "chest", it deformes the cat suit figure. I use V3 sr2 and V3 catsuit sr1. If I pose V3 with "V3 arms crossed" (DAZ V3 pose), then get the catsuit figure and do that pose on the catsuit, it fits ok! If after that, I conform the catsuit to V3, I get the poke-thru's again.

Hi Kiera, if I examine your screenshot more carefully, I see that the left forearm is still poking thru ;)

Is there a list of which DAZ clothing relies on Crosstalk? Or is it all DAZ clothing. One would think DAZ has had ample time (going on two years now?) to adjust its products to work with Poser 5.

Poser 5 is against DAZ's religion. :-P They ain't gonna support it, ever. Poke-through can be a problem even when no morphs are applied. In certain poses, you'll have poke-through problems even in P4, and even with no morphs. It's usually fixed by turning the offending body parts invisible, slight dial tweaking, magnets, or postwork.

The clothes work fine in Poser 5. You just need to do the extra step of copying and pasting the morph dials. You almost always get some pokethrough with tightfitting clothing in extreme poses. It's almost unavoidable. :) It could be that the joint control morphs aren't being pasted when you copy and paste. Honestly, I paint clothes 99% of the time, and if I do use clothes I fix pokethrough and other problems in Photoshop. It's faster than making things fit perfectly all the time for me.

Ok..reinstalled everything. Finding out the results are the same. The Ultra catsuit fits v3 perfectly. But purchase a character here or where ever. The ultra catsuit doesn't fit at all (Conform to, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V). I can prob magnet the catsuit, but that will be a pain. Wonder, is DAZ looking into this? Thinking Vic3 and cloths is (Was designed for) more for Poser 4 and Pro, than Poser5. Correct me on this.

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=6831&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=18

See the link. It's to a thread about the Girl's catsuit, but the problem is similar.

Still, you should be able to fit the V3 catsuit fairly well using Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V - as long as the morphs the character uses are also in the catsuit. There will be pokethrough in some poses. Are you saying that even in the zeroed pose, the catsuit doesn't fit morphed characters?

Yeah..playing around with the Ultra Catsuit, on a purchased character or freebie for V3. Their are pokethrough even at zeroed posed doesn't fit morphed characters. Thanks for the link. Since P5 been out, they are realizing this now?

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 16:30

DAZ is not going to support P5. They now have their own program, DAZ Studio. :-P

Yes..I know the dials. :-) "DAZ is not going to support P5. They now have their own program, DAZ Studio. :-P " Wow..I see that DAZ studio is Beta and free. Will look into it. thanks everyone for the response.

Yup. D|S is free. Eventually, DAZ hopes to sell plugins for it. And content, of course. But as of now, don't expect D|S to handle the catsuit any better than P5. Which characters are you trying to fit the catsuit to? If you tell us that, someone might be able to figure out what's wrong.

Oh..the catsuit on V3 and trying on for examples: Orion1167, "Landis Rea", "Inertia" and goldtassels "Bretty Baby". The ultra Catsuit fitted these characters no problem in P4-Pro. I have nothing wrong with the characters. Or I didn't want to write anything about em here. Only the Ultra Catsuit in P5, for V3.

Message edited on: 08/07/2004 18:24

I don't own that character, so I can't see what morphs are used. You said you tried it on a free character; which one was that, and where can I download it?

Lisa for V3, and Kaylee for V3.

The JCM problem with P5 shows up when you pose the character, particularly with her arm raised. You get some pokethrough on the upper chest that you don't get with P4/PP.

Wow..and I just tried that. Dunno why it didn't work for me. Ah..I will have to play with it. But Lisa isn't the character I like to work on my image.

It should work for any V3 character, as long as the character doesn't use any dials not on the catsuit. (Some characters use weird morphs, or custom morphs, but if that's the case, the clothes won't fit in P4, either.)

A couple of things to check:

Sometimes copying and pasting is glitchy. To be sure it worked, look at the dials of the bodysuit. They should have changed, if it worked, to match those in the character. Just scan down the list and make sure some of them don't read 0 any more.

There have been two service releases for V3 and I think one for the catsuit. You don't need to worry about SR2 for Vicky - that was to add morph channels to her head. But make sure you have SR1 for both the catsuit and V3 installed.

Wondering. Did you use V3, SR1, or SR2? I have a habit of using SR1, for V3 (All V3 characters I have here) and the Ultra Catsuit. But I am about to call it quites on the Ultra Catsuit due to problem with it in P5, and also take your advice. Cause maybe in the future I might change my mind. I did purchase a outfit here that is close to the Ultra Catsuit. "Billy-T's Body Suit." Which I will prob get to download on Monday as soon as the money order reaches Renderosity. I will play as much as I can with the Ultra Catsuit today with your advice. :-)

I used V3, SR1, with the Catsuit, SR1.

Sometimes copying and pasting is kind of finicky. Make sure you click on Other, and only once, so it's highlighted, before you do the copying and pasting.

I really like the UltraCatsuit, and generally don't have problems using it in Poser 5. I don't understand why it's working for you, too. :-( I'm sure anything made by Billy-T is worth the money, but you shouldn't have to buy all new clothes just because you've switched to Poser 5.

Also, much as I admire Billy-T's work, his clothing usually doesn't include any morphs. Looking at his Body Suit, it says it doesn't fit the standard V3. So it may not fit your characters, either.

Bobbi, Any product -- not just from DAZ, but from any merchant -- which makes use of ERC or JCMs is using a form of crosstalk. The objects which are most heavily affected by this are those that used "superconforming" -- that is, they are designed to pretyt much automatically pick up the morphs from the figure they are being conformed to. In the case of V3, this is going to consist of most of her morphing clothing. It also includes V3 herself. These functions, and the latest cool hack of INJection channels, may not work in Poser 6. At all. The reason for this is simple, and if they don't work, it really wouldn't be the fault of Curious Labs, nor would it neccessarily be the fault of DAZ or anyone else, either. These things are hacks. They are based on careful analysis of the old code base for Poser 4, including functions that were not used in Poser 4 for various reasons but are there. Some other items that use hacks include MAT files, Partial MAT or partial Pose files, some lights (there is a third light type in poser that is "buried"), and various odds and ends throughout most 3rd party product. DAZ is fairly consistent in making use of these hacks as they do improve the overall usability of the figures and such. Things such as MAT files allow us to work more rapidly and with less fuss. However, all of these things are hacks, and while the argument can be raised that "CL should listen to the people", the flipside is that CL did listen -- crosstalk was fixed because it was an acknowledged bug and the stink raised about it shortly after P4 was released was just as loud as the stink made over P5 in general. So, as the code moves forward and the program is developed, the things in the code that allow these hacks to work may not function in future versions -- this is a maybe, not a won't. Long winded response to your question, I know, but I hope it answers at least in some part what you asked. I'll also point out yet again that PhilC has posted the methodology to create superconforming clothing for Poser 5 (stuff that works automagically) and is well worth checking out -- the modifications are reasonable and might help in this situation. I say might, because the catsuit can only assume those morphs which it has -- and it does not have all the morphs that V3 does. Also, it does not match those morphs exactly beyond the "1" setting, and since the JCM's are slightly disabled in P5, it does not "flex" the way that V3 does, so there will be poke through often with a garment as close fitting as that one. Lastly, some scaling after the copy/paste in specific areas and done intelligently will aid you in your quest as well...

My point is that DAZ has had ample time to fix its products so they work with Poser 5. Personally, I would like a note in any product description that clearly states a clothing item is using Crosstalk, and therefore will not work in Poser 5. That would be truthful advertising. Of course DAZ has gotten around this idea by basically saying nothing they produce is guaranteed to work with Poser 5. Or at least that is my current understanding.

Message edited on: 08/08/2004 08:59

But the clothing DOES work in P5. It's just that the superconforming feature doesn't work in P5. Now, I don't know about the GIRL catsuit. That might rely more heavily on JCMs than the Vicki/David/Mike/Stephie suits do, which could explain why so many P5 users are having trouble. But I don't think it would be truthful to say the clothing doesn't work in P5.. it does. It would be truthful to say that the superconforming feature doesn't work in P5. Now, ynsaen is absolutely right. Curious Labs isn't required to make sure DAZ's hacks (MAT files, superconforming, etc) work in future versions of Poser. But it has been my experience that they do their best to make sure that these unexpected features continue to work. But this superconforming/crosstalk thing doesn't work in P5 because DAZ started employing it with the advent of V3 and M3, and P5 was already out, and had already fixed crosstalk.

Also, let's not forget that 1- DAZ didn't discover them, they merely made extensive use of them, and 2- DAZ isn't the only ones to use these features. A great manyof these features are employd in clothing for sale outside of DAZ. And it will be outside of DAZ that the new hacks and tricks for P5 are put into use, as well. Since they are developing in house utilizing these established P4-based tricks and using weight maps in other areas for compatibility beyond Poser, they are not going to be developing P5 based objects in house. Poser 5 support at DAZ will come from the Brokered Artists. So Kiera's dead on -- Just as CL isn't required to make sure that these hacks work going forward (and they do their best, they really do), DAZ isn't rquired to support the current generation of software. With the imminent release of Shade (including PoserFusion) and the additional features that will bring, there will be a marked change going forward. Get ready for it. And Grin. None of this is bad for US -- it's scary, and it makes figuring out how to spend your money harder, but to allow yourself to be polarized in any direction will limit you -- at a time when limits are the last thing we want ;)

Getting nervous of Poser and DAZ in the future. Like how did they DAZ get started? Wasn't it Poser? No/Yes? Now with their program DAZ studio which is in Beta stages, their new program Bryce 5 and now finding out DAZ doesn't support poser 5. What is it going to be like when Poser 6 comes out? I just purchased poser 5, and I am getting just started (Since August 1993), on purchasing things (understanding things), and feeling now, will be left in a corner. I do not feel like jumping program to program, wasting money and sorta not getting anywhere.

Tide changes are always scary. Especially if you've never been to sea before. DAZ started out as the Poser content arm of Zygote. In the last 5 years, they have grown to a point where if they wish to continue to gorw larger, they need to look beyond Poser and to other markets -- in addition to Poser, not to the detriment of. D|S is not a replacement for poser, it is more a complimentary program to it. Once the plug-ins for it are written, it may have the ability to compete effectively, and possibly at a comparative cost. Long long ago, when Metacreations suddenly had Ray Dream, Infini-D, Bryce, and Poser, there was the thought (and promise) that all of them would be able to work togehter interchangeably. That was 4 years ago. Now that possibility is coming again, but there isn't just one path to it. There are several. D|S allows existing poser content to be translated. From there it can go to several applications (ok, so that's still coming). Bodystudio, Greenbriar's stuff, various odds and ends here and there. Mover for Vue. Shade's in-program system. All these things essentially are providing a means to take the stuff that we have and move it into another program. Poser itself has grown. This is an expansion period. Over the rest of this cycle, the user base for Poser will grow incredibly. Renderosity itself has grown incredibly huge -- so much so that those of us who were here ages ago are a tiny minority of voices. The folks who are coming in today have little idea of who Anton is and what he's done, they barely remember traveler, they've never heard of Legume beyond a welcome email from one site. Don't fret the change. It will happen anyway -- all things must. And in business, they rarely change the way we want them to. DAZ won't abandon Poser as long as it is worthwhile to them. Since their revenue is based primarily on Poser users, it's unlikely they'll do so anytime soon. This is a big change. It's bigger than the Commune and Pros splits, the former of which nearly killed the community early on it was so acrimonious. But this one isn't driven by politics, it's driven by ultiamtely trying to increase the number of people using Poser. WHich means the market's matured. It's reached critical mass. It's time to grow it. soon it won't be so weird to play with digital dolls...

I just wanted to add that I realize that this sort of thing worries people who purchase a lot of content. Will it work next year? The year after? In DAZ Studio? Bryce? Vue? Shade? Poser? On V5? Mike 9? I wouldn't worry. The community has been amazingly adaptive over the years. Within a week of Victoria 3's release there were ways to squeeze V2 into V3's clothes and vice versa. Heck, you can make Stephie Max (a figure based on Stephanie, who was based on Mike 2..) wear V3's clothes now. We have people like Ockam and the fine folks at Netherworks writing python utilities to make life easier for the P4 - P5 transition, and even if these guys close up shop there will be others who will jump into their place, helping the community. It will all get sorted. In the meantime, I don't see any reason to feel a need to "choose sides" or whatever. DAZ makes some amazingly cool things and supports the artists in this community with content, contests, and stuff like the calendar that helps struggling artists get noticed. Curious Labs makes the crack we all love (or hate to love.. depends on your POV.) Shade is coming. (mmm, radiosity.. global illumination.. Poser Fusion..) DAZ|Studio will be freeish and is slowly becoming more stable. Bryce isn't dead. A new version of Vue is coming out. We've got RDNA, PoserPros, 3DCommune, DAZ3D, and the Rosity MP to flash our credit cards at. There's never been so much choice. The "low-end" 3D community is thriving. These are exciting times--features that were unavailable to us even 2 years ago are now within reach, for the same low price points we've enjoyed for years. I admit, a year and a half ago I was beginning to wonder if I would be able to use Poser as a crutch for my artwork much longer, but I feel far more secure about all of my favorite software now, despite glitches like the GIRL's catsuit and such.