Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=1911229

Just to let you know that I think this is stupid. Everyone in this forum, EVERYONE, uses Poser and I, for one, in future would like to recieve any news from the company that made the program that this forum exists for. In the Vue forum I have never seen anyone complain if E-on posts a message about an upgrade, add-on or product. Same for other Forums like ZBrush, Max etc. Only the Poser forum seems to have an issue with this. (And don't say that it was an advert for Shade, we don't have a Shade forum yet)

Ditto Numanoid..this is ridiculous......~eye roll~

Yes this is crazy.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Hear, hear. The resentments about the release of Poser 5 are fully understandable, no question, but I encourage those who entertain ongoing resentments to remember that Curious Labs is just not the same company at this point. Some of the folks who complained about the CL posts are merchants who are making money off the sales of content for Poser. Isn't some degree of gratitude or forgiveness in order at this point, more than 1&1/2 years later, especially considering that the program is finally reasonably stable? I know that Shade isn't Poser per se, but again, Curious doesn't post here very much, and when they do, the current reps are always courteous, succinct, and pleasant. Sorry if I'm ranting, but the anti-Curious Labs sentiments came across as overly vengeful. I really look forward to news about Poser 6. I hope the company won't be demonized ad naseum here in The Poser Forum.

Ain't that always the way....bowing to the wishes of the vocal minority! Dare I say it's becoming an American tradition. I'm surprised lawyers weren't involved in this gross misplacement of a Renderosity posting! geeez

--end of mini-rant--

For what it's worth, I don't agree with this decision at all.

A few whiners set the tone for this one.

I am a little angrier than I usually get over such displays of childish petulance........

Perhaps I should wait awhile before saying anything more.

I don't say much when I see this kind of stuff going on. Maybe there are to many like me, that watch but say nothing. Well. I'm very disappointed with this decision and the few that created the fuss. You would think there would be some tolerance to the company that you claim to be merchants to thier software.

Where am I supposed to go to find out if this is a viable product for me to use? It was shown at siggraph, I expect some people might be able to let us know how it performed. I'm a Poser user and all this forum does is make me feel hamstrung. I'm going back to the only sane forum on the net-- PoserPros-- they are responsive to their users needs without caving in to whiners. This place is becoming more and more useless-- which would be ok, I suppose if it wasn't irritating rude and patronizing as well. Too bad so many newbies come here first and get the entirely wrong idea about the Poser community. I learned everything I needed to know about beginning Poser right here-- in only two years of increasingly poor decision-making, it has tanked to this knee-jerk rule-shackled level. There is no community here. Emily

There is no community here. Nope, not for a long time.

This one has really got me ticked off. And that's highly unusual for me.

I come to the Poser forum in order to hear about the Poser program -- AND ISSUES/SOFTWARE RELATED THERETO. INCLUDING SHADE.

I regularly visit the Product Showcase forum, but not everyone does. Some people may never see the thread in question.

Forcing Curious Labs to apologize for "daring" to post helpful information for us in the "wrong" forum (the Poser Forum) -- that's a hot one.

I am not angry at the management of RR per se, but I am firmly of the opinion that this one went the wrong way. Totally.

However -- I will also make it clear -- this tempest in a teapot should not be used as a springboard to take swipes at RR.

That's striking on about the same level as those whose whining started this....uh, how can I put the matter diplomatically......thoughtful move in the first place.

Yes.....someone showed us how this was to be handled, alright.

Some people may never see the thread in question. And considering that well over half of this web site is focused on art and products that are Poser-specific, and well over half of the products in the marketplace are Poser-specific, it was a slap in the face to move CL's press release there. Sorry, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way. This is just too absurd.

Oh well...there are some really amazing people on RR inlcuding the mods. It's becaause of the these memebers that i still hang around here and spend my money to support the community. I've really expercienced so much kindness and selfshishness.. that at times it just makes me go wow.. but then i've also seen the worst in poeple.... it's these bitter frustaed people that i just don't get.. seroiusly what pleasure to you get out of being so bitter and spoiling it for everyone.. Ya okay P5 sucked... it was full of bugs..get over it..move on... I preorderd P5 and paid for it in canadian dollars... P5 runs now... so it took a few SRs and a couple of years...but hey.. at least they CL is still around... anyway what ever turns you people on.. i just don't get it.. give these guys a break... what's it going to take? what will make you people happy... curious labs closing down? how many people have to loose their jobs to satisfy this resentment?.. you guys got Steve Cooper fired... what more do you want?

This is really too bad, I come here to learn about "Poser" and the future of "Poser". For years this forum has been one of my main resources but now it's just a forum for ...... ???? freebie posts??? whinners??? self centered hate mongers???

No wonder I now spend most of my time at RunTimeDNA. At least there even the site owner thanks Curious Labs when they stop by and post (which, BTW, is ONLY when there is news to post).

I could Care LEss what products people are posting in the Product Show Case, I could Care Less to see "ooooh, stage 1...oooh, stage 2.....oooooh coming someday" garbage! I go to the Market Place to see products...Dho!

If it wernt for DrGeep this forum would be absolutly WORTHLESS these days.....ooops sorry DrGeep, that comment might get you moved to the "learning forum".

my 2cents, now I'm going to RDNA to see what CL has to say...

Message edited on: 09/02/2004 00:30

Runtime dna would allow this without batting an eyelid. Even completely off topic posts are allowed there.

I agree with the thrust of sentiments here. It's rare these days to purchase such software without a subsequent bombardment of crafted emails designed more to influence than inform. I hope that a veto on the very rare courteous remarks from CL does not change this situation.

I must agree with whats been said previously - since everyone else pretty much summed up my feelings about having CL's infrequent, but oh so relivent, posts moved out of the very forum that only exsists because of them.
I don't get it...

Message edited on: 09/02/2004 00:55

OMG... this is out of control. Should this post by CL actually be here.. Probably not, but since there is really no other good place to put this post then it does fit here. I can't believe all of the whiners here in this thread and other threads throughout this forum. What is the big deal if one of our software companies come in here and make a post about an upcoming product that we will eventually buy, use and sell/freebie products for there new software. I think they curtious enough to stop by and say hey this is what's going on. just my 2.5 cents...

Give it a rest it's an ad pure and simple. If Daz had come in here and posted something everyone would be saying they have a monopoly here and it's a conspiracy to take over. Let it go people. It's annoying to me that the only time CL comes in here now is to place and ad and move on. Marque

True.

How dare CL come in here and make any announcements in the "Poser" forum.

Why would anyone in the "Poser" forum possibly want/need to be informed of CL's future plans for Poser -- or for its intergration with Shade?

Why in the world would anybody want to know about something like that?

Consign them to Product Showcase -- that's what I say!

And slap them around a little while doing it.

Who needs information, anyway?

I fondly remember the days when folks from CuriousLabs were welcome here and could share tech tips and news of what they were working on, and would be glad to see that again. It benefits us, the users... and it also lets them know that we appreciate having tools like this. That was before a couple of firestorms, one involving bugs in the product (which led to anger directed at people rather than a company) and the other involving the deluge of ads by all the merchants (which led to anger, both by users who were tired of spam and by other merchants resentful of any perceived inequality of access). Needs change and moods shift. Let's set up a poll to determine what the general mood of the community is now to such product announcements. Carolly Renderosity Moderator

Polls are fine.

But you'll never please everyone.

Someone is going to be happy, and someone else is going to be mad.

For now you can color me "highly annoyed".

by other merchants resentful of any perceived inequality of access

Without the central product -- a product produced by a company known as "Curious Labs" -- those "other merchants" wouldn't have anything to sell to addicts like me.

I politely (strongly) suggest that this matter be reconsidered.

Fortunately for all of us, any news about new Curious Labs products will also be available through other channels. I'm certainly not going to wade through the Cluttered Flea Market..er, Product Showcase forum just to search for the odd post by CL. This reflects very poorly on the merchants here, many of whom are actually decent folks, and also illustrates yet another of the reasons why Poser and its users are regarded with such disdain by users of high-end software and members of other 3d communities.

This reflects very poorly on the merchants here Yes -- it does. Very poorly indeed.

Hmmm.. I thought about saying something.. then rethought about saying something, then came to the conclusion that it would probably just be a "waste of breath." :D

If I wanted to find out news about D|S, the first place I would go to is the D|S forum. Likewise any news about Poser, I would immediately come to this forum.

AFAIC PoserFusion for Shade is about Poser, and I would like to see it in this forum. If CL were advertising content for Poser it would be different, but this is an enhancement to the application itself.

We've never minded posting our product releases in the Product Showcase forum, in fact would rather post there. The comparision between software releases/enhancements and content IMO is apples and oranges.

Edited for typos

Message edited on: 09/02/2004 02:52

Why should people let it go? This is just stupidity. It's almost like some twisted form of political correctness. I was actually interested to see that post by CL. It seems however, that a vocal minority in here would rather eat their first born that have anything remotely resembling a commercial related post allowed to exist in the Poser forum. This is a commercial site as well as an "art" site and somewhere to share tips and tricks. As such, the occasional product announcement from someone like CL should not start a flame war about those nasty companies coming in here and polluting the pureness and sanctity of the almighty Poser forum. This nonsense just reminded me why I don't spend much time in this place.

Very true, you can't please everyone.

I myself am rather pleased, that every advertisement is moved, regardless if it is from Joe Smalltime or Curious Labs.
But then, I'm weird. I even visit the Product Showcase forum on a regular basis.

I think that I shall never see A billboard lovely as a tree. Perhaps unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all. Ogden Nash (19021971), U.S. humorist. "Song of the Open Road".

can we have a vote on whether to have the poll? Getting back to the point though, Poser is Curious Labs & Curious Labs are Poser, anything anyone from Curious Labs posts on this site should be posted in the Poser Forum. What's the point in having a forum if the originators of the software it's for can't post in it? either let them post here or scrap the forum totally.

Message edited on: 09/02/2004 03:37

Does this all really matter where this was moved to? Sharen

Attached Link: http://www.mgbrooksworks.com

I agree sargebear - been looking over ronstuffs shoulder as he's been putting shade through the ringer, and its kind of an amazing program. Hopefully the few 'show-stoppers' will prove to be windows of opportunity for the company to showcase its ability to solve problems, hehe :) [ie... obj import and a few other things...] but, just the lighting capabilities and color preview in the demo alone were impressive features.

as for where the post resides, the why's and whynot's... etc... I just come here to read up on Poser and see what folks are up to. I do read the Showcase often, but only because folks keep posting, or having their posts moved to, there hehe :)

Does this all really matter where this was moved to? Sharen Sharen, unfortunately it does. This forum is about POSER. Curious Labs makes Poser, and they have the right to inform us of updates and enhancements to the program. The first place you would naturally look for that type of news is the Poser forum ... NOT the Product Showcase forum. This is NOT a Poser add-on we are talking about now ... this is the actual products that drive the rest of the market here. You don't think that makes a difference? Someone said "Give it a rest." Well the way things are going here, the only people that will be left will be the complainers. The way I see it, it's pretty close to that already. Save a handful of helpful people, mods included, there is VERY little worth coming here for nowadays. Enough is enough.

Deecey > You don't think that makes a difference?

I think it doesn't. But I won't complain either way, it is just not worth it.

But I hope that CL and other vendors make at least an additional post in the Product Showcase forum so that I can find them. I don't visit the Poser forum very often.

Extremely silly!!!! Jeez, I want to KNOW about what happens to Poser and CL - that's one of the reasons I come here. All this hairsplitting about which Forum - for goodness' sake. Without Poser and CL this place would never have existed at all. :] Fish

Without Poser and CL this place would never have existed at all. Exactly!

"I fondly remember the days when folks from CuriousLabs were welcome here and could share tech tips and news of what they were working on, and would be glad to see that again" But they only come in now to make announcements for you to buy something new from them...no tips...no real info on the products we already have. Give me a break, why all this sudden concern for CL? How many of you actually visit their site? I aggree with the mods on this one, if it is a product announcement it should go where the other folks have to take their product announcements. You make it sound like a CL hate fest and it's not. I see it as just being fair to other merchants who have been told to move their ad about a product. As far as "Without Poser and CL this place would never have existed at all." Without Bill Gates we wouldn't have windows, without Mr. Ford we wouldn't have cars............. Marque

But they only come in now to make announcements for you to buy something new from them...no tips...no real info on the products we already have. Give me a break, why all this sudden concern for CL?

Maybe they don't come in much anymore because this community raked them over the coals following the release of P5.

Maybe they don't come in much anymore because no matter WHAT they or DAZ say or do, people bitch about it.

Maybe they don't come in much anymore because the atmosphere here has degraded into nothing but a slingfest.
The OT forum was shut down because of "bad vibes." Open up your eyes, Renderosity ... the bad vibes are far more prevalent in this very Poser forum.

But I see what the goal is. No more commercial posts. No more marketplace. Let's turn it back into a freebie community. Well, that's impossible because bandwidth costs money.

Message edited on: 09/02/2004 09:17

Maybe they deserved to be raked over the coals for lying to us about what they were including and have yet to include in P5. People will always complain, if a company can't take the heat they need to get out of the business. Marque

Ditto what Deecey said

hows about we pick a merchant at random & harrass them every time they post something, see how long we'd last on the site? No? why not? it's ok to blast CL or Daz every 5 minutes why not have open season on all of them?

If I have a complaint about services or software that I use, I take it directly to the company.

I think CL should be allowed to post here. But only CL. Clearly, the people who created the software we are all using aren't just ordinary merchants. And it's not like they post a lot.

As it is, we've got several threads about Shade here in the Poser forum, and people who came in late wondering "What's Shade? What's PoserFusion?"

Maybe they deserved to be raked over the coals for lying to us about what they were including and have yet to include in P5. How long do they have to pay for that? CL had very high hopes for Poser 5. But you know what? All of those expectations take TIME to program ... lots of time. And, in the midst of trying to realize those expectations, the economy went to pot. Releasing it when they did was their only chance for survival at the time. If it were YOUR company, and YOUR product, what would you have done? Lay everyone off? It's all water under the bridge in my opinion ... not worth looking back, only forward.

I think CL should be allowed to post here. But only CL. Clearly, the people who created the software we are all using aren't just ordinary merchants. And it's not like they post a lot.

I agree 100%.

The utterly specious claim that the publisher of the Poser program (Curious Labs) is somehow on a par with content creators when it comes to posting in the "Poser" forum is DOA.

Poser is the foundation upon which the entire structure is built. And issues that directly impact the Poser program -- like Shade intergration -- are of concern to everyone. Not just to those who are considering purchasing Shade in the immediate future.

The whining of "unfair treatment" by some merchants comes across as childish pouting.

True but they do need to fix the items they promised in the version 5 release, not in version 6. They promised all new animals and we have yet to see that. It all comes down to this, I no longer trust CL in anything they promise. Aside from that, I see nothing wrong in them coming in and saying you might want to visit our site and check out updates, but they have no right to post an ad here, plain and simple. If they can post an ad here, then everyone should be able to. And as far as laying folks off, I believe they fired folks instead. I fail to see where all this loyalty to CL comes from, it amazes me. It's almost a cult mentality. They take our money, make promises they don't keep and yet folks still seem to worship them. The content creators and users are ALL that keep CL going in my opinion. Without content the program would have died out long ago. Marque

Many content creators do fine work.

And I buy things from a lot of them.

However:

Whatever one's beef with CL's past faux pas, real or imagined......this is utterly irrelevant to the sharing of information concerning Poser's future with the community at large.

That's like saying that "I don't like Bill Gates, so Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to post any information concerning updates to the Windows operating system in a Windows forum."

Right. Uh-huh.

Without content the program would have died out long ago. And without the program there would be no need for the content.

This really is too bad.

I doubt that CL will post in here anymore, in any case.

And I can't say that I blame them.

Too much grief.

It's our loss.

Thanks, whiners.