Well, hopefully it will greatly improve. I'm taking a basic CAD class at my school this semester, so with any luck i'll learn some good habits and be able to improve my modelling skills. Then i can start cranking out some freebies.

oh..hmm..Modeling is different things to different folks..your packages will shape your approach to it. I have Turbo-cad on one of those 'freebie' disks, but haven't played with it much..have fun in the land of chamfer..;)

I don't know CAD, but I think it would be a great skill to have, especially when you are modeling a "real-world" object where the dimensions have to be precise to be convincing.

Agree with Danamo. And could I talk you into trying Rhino? It's a very precise modelling package and has more capabilities than "ordinary" CAD programs. www.rhino3d.com

CAD is a wonderful tool and learning to use it was the most exiting 3 days of my whole graphic arts experience . . . but seriously though - learn all you can from it! My biggest problem is that once I know how to do something I move on to the next thing. It seems I'm more curious about how something is done than how to present it properly to others. This is the wrong approach and a major character flaw for an artist; I'd say you should choose one way of doing things and keep doing them in that way until you are expert enough to put your personal touches on it . . . one of those do as I say not as I do type things.

And I agree with Erlik on his recommendation of Rhino! I love Wings obviously, but I see some things my friends are doing with Rhino that would be much easier than doing it with a box modeler. I guess I'll have to sign-up for the local College's Rhino course(can you say academic discount?)amoung others.

Yeah bikermouse I'm the same way.. That's why so many of my renders are technical tests or challenges for myself rather than actual art... Rarely have I made something.. to make it.. it's usually to see if I can indeed make it. I wish I could just stick with something but I get too bored.. I've allready learned bryce, wings, blender, povray, lightwave modeler, blender, rhino, vue (through a friend), tried some stuff in z-brush (which my uncle owns), worldbuilder, inventor, photoshop, paint shop pro, after effects, premier, Autocad, and probably tens of other things that aren't dropping off the top of my head. But the only one that I know a lot about is bryce because I've used it for so long... everything else I just know enough to get along. I'd like to learn some of the bigger apps, but to tell you the truth I'd rather just get better with the modelers that I have instead of trying to learn maya or softimage or 3ds max which have much more depth.

Looks like Im in the same boat with ornlu and bikermouse. like ornlu I have loads of programs (some given to me others not) I can list a load of them Maya, Cinema 4D, ect... but Im just now startin to get proficent enough with bryce to actually create something with out it being a challenge. though Im sure I can make it one if I try hard enough ;P Good luck in CAD.

Ornlu, The more I hear about max the less impressed with it and more impressed with it's plug-ins. My next step will be C4D, but not for a long time - I'm still trying to get Carrara to work right for me . . . some of the tutorials I'm using now to expand my knowledge of Carrara are for Max and lightwave. Moe has a discussion going on about subdivision in the modeling forum which I'm hoping be able to stay around long enough to follow, and has ref'd Bay Raitt and Peter(?) Ratner two very learned modelers. Yes I love to experiment too - this whole thing recently about refraction including tjohns seperate thread brought up some rather fond memories of it; some years old. Unfortunately when the subject switched to ambience I couldn't talk much about it as I haven't played with premium renders all that much, but that's coming. What I've found to be one of the most interesting effects in Bryce was brought to my attention by Vile and his telescopic effects - I still play with that one every once and a while. - TJ

Hmm so you think bryce isn't that great? I know i'm eventually going to have to graduate from bryce. It's that old anchor around my waist. Don't get me wrong, I love bryce. But I'm wondering what else is out there. I've got some spare money and sometime this school year might buy an educationally reduced copy of one of the top pieces of software.. probably not because i won't have as much time to learn it.. but still. Anyway, I guess I was mislead with 3dsmax, what do you mean by its plugins? As in max has a ton of plugins that are useful but cost money, and alone it's not really that grand? Maybe I'll look into lightwave or maya or xsi.. no idea. Still sticking with bryce for now though.

Just as a general question for anyone who knows... is there a definitive 'best' program for general CG? of those top few. or are they all equally good for different things.. man I hate that.

Heretics!

If you want to jump to conclusions that's entirely up to you - I didn't Bryce wasn't great.

plugins? Brazil, Tree Factory . . . Ah heck if you do a google for Max plugins you'll find hundreds of them, as well as maxscripts.

Hey Bryster, I guess this is not a good thread to say I'm really starting to like Vue ???

Attached Link: Maxon

I've been into 3D Studio before it became 3D Studio Max, when computing was DOS OS based and I started with 3D Studio revision 3. 3D Studio was Autocads offspring geared towards the artist as opposed to engineers and draftsmen, which was Autocads domain.

Autodesk is the parent company of both Autocad and 3D Studio and was bought out by Kenetics and then by Discreet. Having also learned Autocad before 3D Studio came out because user-friendly 3D graphic programs were virtually none-existent at the time, Im fully aware of its capabilities. Autocad is best suited for non-organic mostly primitive modeling where architectural structures are the focus. In fact, my first ever 3D model was the Raptor, a copy of a spaceship designed for a space war game and I modeled it using Autocad.

We had PovRay, which was a command line program and you needed to know on the Corsican coordinate system where a particular point was in xyz 3D space first before you could enter it into the PovRay program and have it plotted on the monitor, a big hassle, well, at least to me it was. Today I believe, and I could be mistaken, PovRay has a frontend GUI which would make it far more easier to navigate and more productive.

Todays more modern high-end modeling programs not only use primitives but also incorporate such things as metaballs (a more sophisticated metaball routine than Bryce uses), NURBs, splines and shaping tools giving the ability to create more organic looking models such as people, animals and plants.

3D Studio was considered second only to SoftImage, a French company which took the lead in cinematic CG special effects then. As with all these wonderful tools they continued to mature and evolve in complexity and as a single program, become truly immense undertakings and eventually become unmanageable for their programmers. So the next logical step came with the advent of C++ and the ability to modulize programs into different subroutine capsules that could share variables with the main module making them object oriented and less cumbersome. This programming feature lead the way for faster and easier developments in all these huge programs and opening the SDK (Software Development Kits) programming market.

This made it possible for programming geeks and entrepreneurs to develop and market their own plug-in modules and all one had to do was piggyback them onto the main module. So not only does 3D Studio Max employs this program expanding feature but so do all other huge program developers and not necessarily only graphic programs either.

If not for the advent of Object Oriented programming the common person couldnt touch these programs today from a financial standpoint making these programs more available to us starving artists. Most these programs come with basic plug-ins only.

Most, if not all well known graphic program developers incorporate this plug-in feature and the most popular programs get the most traffic and the most people eager to sell their goods. Although often expensive, these plug-ins offer the user the ability to pick and choose whichever one they need and not have to buy an entire bundle. We often see prices ranging in the thousands for some of these plug-ins, I shudder to think what a program would cost if all these plug-ins were included. This is also the way the big cinematic special effects companies work today. They develop their own plug-ins for their own specially developed CG programs. As a result of their work we often see less expensive work-a-rounds and plug-ins.

Hey! You all still with me? Now, getting back on topic, ;DSlakker, every little practice you get makes you better at what you do. CAD training will not hurt you at all.

Rhino is mostly a NURBs modeling program but it does have primitives to work with. 3D Studio Max offers different approaches to modeling making it more versatile but also more expensive. Also being the offspring of an engineering program, Autocad, it is one of the most precise artist oriented programs. I like them both and find them more user-friendly then others and I too have used or tried to use and own quite a list of 3D programs, many, I havent had the chance yet to get around to trying but theyre mostly the same toy with a different color on it. Getting use to the GUI is often the most complicated part of the learning curve. I find Rhinos NURBs easy to work with but 3D Studio Maxs NURBs more robust with more to offer.

Hey, Twistedbolt, you spamming us?

I bought my first pc in order to be able to use TurboCad, which was my first software program ever! I'd been commissioned to design a range of concrete paving (how boring is that?) and I've always hated precise geometric drawing. Using TurboCad was a revelation - I went nuts with geometric design for awhile, it was so easy to use. I still remember it fondly - it was powerful enough to do what I needed, but not so loaded with features that a complete novice like me couldn't find my way round it. That's still what I want in a program, an intuitive interface on a program that does just enough for what I need right at that moment. So Carrara, Truespace, Amapi come and go, but Bryce stays on my HD. Incidentally, I noticed a few months ago a free version of TurboCad available for download, if anyone's interested I'm sure a google would find it......

May I join in the spamming then? :-) Yeah, C4D is a great app. Its modelling part didn't do much for me, but texturing and lighting is as easy and more powerful than in Bryce. Pity the caustics and radiosity are available only in the Advanced Render module. OTOH, Rhino 4, the next version, will use Brazil as its module renderer (like Flamingo is now) and will have much better polygon and even better NURBS modelling abilities. :-) It's already in alpha stages. OTTH, both of them have plugins, like Max. I haven't tried XSI, Maya, Lightwave or Electric Image. Do they have plugins, too?

Spamming eh? I feels me a song coming . . .

How is that spamming, all those functions are in the new version,and for the price, its well under Max&XSI.If I had the money to spend.....I would go XSI most likely,as I like the interface.But it all depends on the money issue,If I could afford more than 1500$ for an app I would.Everyone seems to be anti-c4d lately,whats up with that?

TwistedBolt,

Dunno.

FYI - Carrara supports sdks too.

I once got accused of spamming by someone because I refered to the
impeachbush dot com more than once in a week;or was that the Spike Jones song? Anyrate, not important right now.
What's important is that Slakker get really good at CAD
so he can teach us all how to use it with Bryce.

• TJ

Message edited on: 09/03/2004 04:30

yeah, get good at CAD so we can have more freebies lol.

MARKO: Your link in my site is getting reduced to 1/4 its current size...............;-)

Hey Quest, Just a point. SoftImage is a French Canadian Company. I live about 15 miles from their south shore studio. I have 3 friends who've been through thier 9 month training program. $9,000 CAD. -Bandolin

dang..my first PC programs were Wordstar and Zork I..;)

No, no Twistedbolt, I'm referring to your Maxon link which doesn't have anything that I can see to do with CAD training or CG program comparisons. All I see is industrial type stuff offered there, that's what I mean by spamming, not your loyalty to C4D, which I also happen to have. Is there something in particular in that link that we should pay special attention to? Did I miss something? :) Bandolin, sorry, Softimage is indeed French but perhaps I should have specified French Canadian to be more concise. I was not intentionally trying to snuff anyone. Please accept my apologies.

CAD, ah I haven't thought of it for years. I have an associates degree in CAD from way back. It never did help my modeling skills much. Maybe thats from my minor lack of imagination. Oh well, good luck slakker