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Vue F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 30 8:14 pm)



Subject: I know I


BigGreenFurryThing ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 4:58 AM · edited Sat, 11 January 2025 at 3:48 AM

anyone else noticed how many more people are posting images in the gallery than messages in the forum? Also see how few forum posts there are from newbies these days? A couple of forum members have recently IMd me directly rather than raise an issue or ask a stupid question in the forum. That saddens me greatly.

I've always considered Renderosity in general and the Vue forum in particular, to be welcoming, nurturing places. They're generous places too: look at the free objects from Rodluc and Sams3d, the unpaid efforts of the moderators (thanks, Agiel), the advice from the likes of Gebe and others plus the many, many contributors of hints, tips & tutorials.

But what saddens me most is the seemingly increasing number of posts in this forum that are entirely negative or, at best, imply a whine in the virtual voice.

Reporting factual issues (OpenGL implementation, etc.) in order resolve them is one thing, but the atmosphere of whingeing for its own sake creeping into this forum is destroying what was once a dynamic and welcoming creative place to visit.

Time was the latest release of Vue would be greeted with excitement, as added features were discussed and new creative prospects explored. Bugs were overlooked, washed into insignificance by enthusiasm and a firm, well-placed belief that issues would be resolved eventually or overcome through perseverance and shared experience. Positive creativity won out over habitual negativity.

We all like to let off a little steam every now and then and, maybe, some are a little weary of Vues bugs and issues but all software has them. Those of us involved in IT for (many) years have learned to accept the nature of computing, rise above the issues and get on with doing and creating. It takes effort and practice but the results are worth it.

OK, E-On's ability to ship quirky first versions, like many other software houses, is an unfortunate fact of computing life. Thats the nature of software development. So live with it.

OK, E-On's marketing strategy of staggered release dates for its products is confusing. So live with that too. And be encouraged: E-On will change. E-On has a clear track record of learning from both its own mistakes and its user base, including this forum albeit over time.

Despite everything, Vue is a great product.

Let me offer a little perspective: in 1991, I spent 2,000GBP on an upgrade board and a copy of Imagine for my Amiga just to create and render simple 3D objects. Now for a fraction of that cost, Vue allows me to produce scenes I could not "imagine" doing before. And this on any reasonable spec'd PC or Mac.

Look at Vues functionality for the price. Compare the simple interface and rendering speed with its competitors. Dig deep into the advanced features. View the images in the galleries. The potential creativity of many has become latent through the availability of cheap, powerful software like Vue. And we get to share it with others.

These are amazing times to be involved in 3D. Lets help each other enjoy them.

Cheers,
Mark


HellBorn ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 6:37 AM

Please take it for what it is ment to be ;) But what saddens me most is the seemingly increasing number of posts that are entirely negative or, at best, imply a whine in the virtual voice. Reporting factual issues (engineproblems, lose parts etc.) in order resolve them is one thing, but the atmosphere of whingeing for its own sake creeping into this forum is destroying what was once a dynamic and welcoming creative place to visit. Time was the latest release of Super Car would be greeted with excitement, as added meters were discussed and new creative prospects explored. None working functions such as no brakes were overlooked, washed into insignificance by the window washers (when working), well-placed belief that issues would be resolved before you got killed or overcome through perseverance (using the bike instead) and shared experience. Positive creativity (such as taking turn to push the car) won out over habitual negativity. We all like to let off a little steam every now and then just as the car do and, maybe, some are a little weary of bad functionality and issues but all cars has them. Those of us involved in car manufacturing for (many) years have learned to accept the nature of building a car, rise above the issues and get on with doing and creating (especially as there not is much driving going on). It takes effort and practice but the results are worth it. OK, Super Cars's ability to ship quirky first versions, like many other car manufacturers, is an unfortunate fact of a car owners life. Thats the nature of car development. So unless you gets killed, live with it. OK, Super Cars's marketing strategy of staggered release dates for its products is confusing. So live with that too. And be encouraged: Super Car will change. Super Car has a clear track record of learning from both its own mistakes and the death if it's users, including this forum albeit over time. Despite everything, Super Car is a great product. Let me offer a little perspective: in 1891, I spent 2,000 seashells on an a horse and a wagon just to transport simple objects. Now for a fraction of that cost, Super Car allows me "imagine" traveling to places i not could before (even if is still cant get there unless i take the bike). Look at Super Car functionality for the price. Compare the simple instrumentation and top speed with its competitors. Dig deep into the advanced features. View the images in the galleries. The potential creativity of many has become latent through the availability of cheap, powerful cars such as the Super Car. And we get to share it with others (as it's built from none recyling materials). These are amazing times to be involved in car driving. Lets help each other enjoy them. Take turn and push on!!!


Djeser ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 7:52 AM · edited Fri, 17 September 2004 at 7:53 AM

BigGreenFurryThing, these things run in cycles. Ask some of the others who have been here for some years. There are usually a couple of people who have no problem with coming into the forum and being negative and unhelpful...and then they disappear. Sometimes we see them again, sometimes not. The negatives often have nothing on their home page here or in their gallery, so it's hard to figure out why they're here. Most of us learn not to feed into their negative attitude, it's not worth the trouble. There are far more nice helpful folks here in this forum (and others as well), and I think we have a great moderator here who helps keep things on an even keel.

So don't let them get to you...just keep on keeping on! PS. Surely, one little piece of chocolate wouldn't hurt!

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 07:53

Sgiathalaich


wabe ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 8:03 AM

Ok, i want some chocolate too!! Djeser said most of it already. It is a cylce thing. I feel that we have a lot of new users here right now that needs to become familiar with this place. So it is a sort of in between phase. About the negative inputs i am not too worried really. This "glues" the good forces together much more. You only have to see the positive aspect in that. What i am worried about a little is, that a lot of people see this forum not as "their" forum but as a cheap and easy place to get information. Ask something, get the answer and go again. That is not the intention of a place like that i guess. Communication about a hobby we love is it what it's all about for me. So lets start the discussion now!

One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.


nanotyrannus ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 10:29 AM

Totally got to agree with BGFT, sick of the whining about "vue doesn't do this, doesn't do that" if you don't like Vue, why are you still using it??? find something else, me, I love my Vue, I've been with it from Vue 3 on and probably will continue as long as it continues to be a very affordable and easy to use software that (at least for me) produces amazing results that I'm happy with and frankly sometimes can't be acheived without a lot of work in other software packages. For example, I had a co-worker of mine who uses 3d studio max to model cars look at my Vue renders and said "wow, I had no idea you could do that with Vue, is that an alpha sky? What?? it's not, it's from the Vue Program?!?" Look at Vue for what it is, a $200 app (for the Esprit version) that generates landscapes and natural environments. The biggest thing I can say when working with Vue is "Think outside the box" take it's features and take them where the programmers never intended them to go, build vegetation using terrains, use terrains to generate water and buildings. If it doesn't work on your system, sorry but sometimes that's just the way it is, live with it. I play (or try anyway) plenty of games that crash so often I just pull the plug right there, I don't go over to all the game forums for that game and trash how the game won't run. What's the point?? Does it solve the problem? NO, does it make you feel better that you can trash a piece of software that runs great for a lot of other people but doesn't run well on yours or doesn't spin straw from gold?? Why are you wasting more time on the software that doesn't work when you could simply chalk it up to life and move on, there are plenty of other alternatives as far as 3d packages go. If you aren't happy because Vue doesn't have every feature ever made then go buy Lightwave for $1,500 or 3d Studio for $3,000! Leave Vue alone, I've never had any problems with any of the versions that I can't work around or that E-on hasn't fixed in an update. That's just the way software is, any software!


BigGreenFurryThing ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 10:50 AM

Hellborn, LOL. The analogy is interesting: both computers and cars cause envirnmental pollution but both have increased personal freedom in travel and expression respectively. However, the core arguments are specious.

  • Cars have been around for over 100 (150?) years with plenty of time for improvement. Domestic 3D software for around 12 - 15 so it's still early "pioneering" days.

  • Cars have a single function, transportation, and relate only to themselves. Software is generally multi-functional with innumerable, usually unknown and unpredictable, relationships with a myriad of other software, drivers and the OS which itself changes.

  • The motor industry is heavily legislated in most countries. Seat belts, airbags and refined engineering have increased safety. The apps of software houses operate entirely in the free market, able to produce what they want, how they want.

  • Finally, unlike a car, no one dies when a computer crashes.

But a neat parody nonetheless. Thanks for witty response. It certainly made me chuckle.:-)

djeser, thanks for the encouragement. I'll certainly stick around to see what happens. Either that or OD on belgian truffles.

wabe, spot on, shared enthusiasm through communication. Absolutely.

nontyrannus, agree totally. I have a 20 minute rule. If the software doesn't give me something I want in 20 minutes, I discard it and get on with life. I've been using Vue since very early V2 and I still love it. I'm so excited about Vue 5 but beginning to feel in a minority of people who are.

Cheers,
Mark


bonnyclump ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 11:12 AM

I know I complain a lot but I feel that eon ignores the problems and moves on or should I say e-ons. I am not excited about vue5. Now that I have time to use most 3d programs I think Vuepro was too expensive. Vue 5 was released to soon after Vuepro. The worst part is that vuepro is really limited in its animation abilities and is more of a picture maker. This is my last complaint for at least this month. There are many good aspects and features to vuepro so enjoy them. Volumetric skies render beautifully in vuepro, impressive.


wabe ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 11:15 AM · edited Fri, 17 September 2004 at 11:20 AM

I agree with all that is said so far.

But please don't make this another thread against people that complain loudly about some Vue issues. Maybe one sentence to those from an old and wise support guy who said the following to me once. 95% of the problems sit in front of the monitor! Very true i think.

I think the problem lies a little deeper than the loud complainers. I think the BigGreenthing (sorry, i couldn't resist) felt a similar thing as i do. That there are too many people around right now that are not participating in the forum. By what reason ever.

If they are frightened by anything - bad and we have to think about how to change that.

If they are using a Warez copy and use the forum as a compensation for a manual - not good, we should avoid it but sometimes this is unavoidable.

If they want to use this forum as an other form of the E-on support, wrong thinking. This is a give and take.

If they are not interested - we must think about to make it more interesting maybe. Think about!

If there are any other reasons, let me know.

BTW, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 11:19

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 11:20

One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.


dlk30341 ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 12:10 PM · edited Fri, 17 September 2004 at 12:13 PM

I'm open to yakking about ALMOST anything...

I love Vue & am looking forward to V5 & hopefully in Feb.(bonus time), I'll be getting Vue Pro5.

I find this program very easy to use, however I've yet to delve into a lot of the more "technical items" as Nano has discussed....I really need to learn the terrain thing....being able to get "models" out of a terrain. I need a tut on that. I remember seeing one with a hummingbird, but can't remember where I saw it.

Also need to learn more about the atmos. editor/cloud layering...I've tinkered with cloud layering but have never noticed any difference worth mentioning when I add new layers.

I only ask ?'s after I've pulled my hair out..I like to try to figure things out on my own. I haven't posted any images in a while due to the flu & vacations, my creativity is in the toilet right now :(

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 12:13


Zoser_USA ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 12:25 PM

As a new member I was called a lurker just because I have no gallery by a small group of people that seem to think they run things around here. Then I was IMed by the moderator who deleted my post and then had the gall to assume I was someone else. It does not make me want to be here when things like this happen. I am of the belief now after reading the very long thread in the poser forum that this place is not a community at all. Just a handful of people that think because they have been here a long time and get the same 8 or 9 votes by their friends that puts them in the top 20, that in some way they have the final say here. Whining about their friends that get negative posts and basically acting like primadonnas. I doubt I will be uploading any of my work here any way. So if you all want the new people to stay and not be afraid to post a message or an image why not try and be a little nicer to them is my thinking. But once again I am sure this post will be deleted for some TOS reason. Oh well. :)


lingrif ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 12:49 PM

I've been around here a while now. As a newbie, it took me a long time to post questions and even longer to post an image in the gallery because I was intimidated by the great talent I saw there. But after posting questions and receiving great answers that helped me a lot, I realized what a great group of people there are here - those who have been around a long time have an enormous amount of knowledge and talent and are very generous with their time to help others. Having things explained by someone is usually a lot better than trying to figure out a manual. If you try to be part of the community and not just criticize it, you may be better received.

www.lingriffin.com


dlk30341 ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 1:11 PM

I for one AVOID all controversial threads...I made that mistake 1x & won't EVER do it again! No matter what my views are on the topic.


HellBorn ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 3:41 PM

Sorry but I did not know that the right to post was connected to the amount of images in the gallery.... I simply don't have any images in my galler because I feel no need to put them there. I'm just as interested in modeling and any renders I have is posted in the Wings forum and then usually when doing a challenge.


petshoo ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 3:56 PM

I can totally relate to that feeling, BigGreenFurryThing. I rarely come here anymore and hardly ever post because of that (yes, I know it's stupid, but these people get to me and I just can't be bothered). :-(


Zoser_USA ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 5:49 PM

Some good advise from lingrif and dlk30341 however that is not at all the type of community I was hoping for. Letting people like Dejeser and Wabe and there 7 to 10 friends run this forum is a joke and conforming to keeping your mouth shut is not right in my eyes. You 7 to 10 people are not the majority here and yet you act like you are. The phase thing is complete BS. Yes petshoo these people get to me as well. Self righteous people make me ill. So this is just my opinion and like petshoo I doubt I will be involved here and that is a shame that a few can ruin it for the majority. Peace out.


dlk30341 ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2004 at 6:29 PM · edited Fri, 17 September 2004 at 6:41 PM

Zoser, I wouldn't call it conforming....I'd call it keep from getting flamed ;) or starting an "episode". I don't have the time or the will to get involved with flamefests or things of the like even though sometimes I'd love to chime in :), as I'm very opinioniated(sp?) and opinions are usually what starts trouble(on controversial items), so I don't post them.

I have always found the people here VERY helpful & it is greatly appreciated. I wouldn't be near the level(that's not saying much) without these good peoples help.

I have about 3-4 hours each night & the weekends for doing the pics, as I do have a FT job. Sometimes work stresses/illness or other daily activities prevent me from being "active" so to speak. As I stated previously, I'm going thru a slump right now. With just getting over the flu & prior to that vacation, my mental & physical energy are at an all time low. I also agree with Nano about the software thing. About a year ago there was an article in the WSJ that more & more software companies are releasing their software early, still in Beta really, even if they say it's "final" and are using the clients to find the errors. Jasc's PSP9 is an excellent reference to the above mentioned. I've bought it, haven't loaded it, and am waiting for the update. I'm not complaining, I knew exactly what I was buying, disappointing yes, but Jasc has always been reliable/trustworthy....so I'll be patient :) ALL programs have their flaws & it's impossible for software makers to keep up with so many people having thousands upon thousands of hardware configurations. So I give them ALL a break.

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 18:32

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 18:33

Message edited on: 09/17/2004 18:41


HellBorn ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 2:16 AM

dlk30341: System dependent faults are one thing and something I can understand as I'm in that bussines myself. It is simply impossible to test on all possible setups. None working or bad working funktionality is something compleatly different because it should have been found and eliminated in beta testing. As I said before I make my own models and I allways make them in the .obj format. Worked perfect in Vue4. Then I got Vue 4 Pro. It took me less than 5 minutes to find out that the .obj import not worked correctly. The models imported along the wrong axis laying down on it's side. If it just had been a matter of rotating the model then it would not have been so bad but one did then the mapping axis would be wrong. That a bug like that gets trough can only be because of sloppy beta testing (either they did not test to import or they did not know what they where doing) or E-On did know but did release it anyway and that made me upset. And that was only one of the none system dependent bugs...


HellBorn ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 2:21 AM · edited Sat, 18 September 2004 at 2:24 AM

And as a comment to low activity...

Maybe you have missed it but it's been summer out there!!!

You know, the time of the year when people goes on vacation, rides the motorcycle, goes to the beach.
The computer room gets to hot, icecream is dripping into the keyboard ,constant shortcuts wit h m ks it s ha d o w rk....

Message edited on: 09/18/2004 02:24


wabe ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 2:26 AM

Only one word to Zoser and some others, forums like that live from give and take - i said it before. So where is your give - beside aggressive whining. Show me any negative word from me, any bad comments or anything like that. Then count the amount of helping answers, tests etc that I and a lot of others have done to all asking. AND THEN COMPARE IT WITH YOURS! It definetely is not the right attitude to enter a forum with only statements about the behaviour of people in the forum and without participating in the community at all.

One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.


Djeser ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 3:12 AM

"Letting people like Dejeser and Wabe and there 7 to 10 friends run this forum is a joke and conforming to keeping your mouth shut is not right in my eyes. You 7 to 10 people are not the majority here and yet you act like you are." Wow, Walther!! And all this time I thought we were just participating in the community. The meaning of community to me is give-and-take, and doing it with mutual respect. The complaints about specific people (including yours truly), votes, Top 20, primadonnas and professionalism just get tired. If someone has a TOS complaint, lay it out for Agiel. Otherwise, why not try to constructively participate here; after all, if one doesn't like the way Renderosity runs this site, there are plenty of other communities out on the net....

Sgiathalaich


BigGreenFurryThing ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 5:51 AM

Oooops, me and my big mouth. Didn't realise I'd be starting such an emotional thread.

Deliberately not posting makes the accusation of an elitist forum a self fulfilling argument and therefore valueless. Further, the Vue forum is anything but elitist. I started posting in a limited way just over a year ago and, despite only a few images in my own gallery, have received great encouragement and help from many people for which I am extremely grateful.

Questions should always be welcome and indeed this is the case in the Vue forum. Not posting does not exclude anyone from posting otherwise the voice of Vue newcomers would never be heard. The concept of right to freedom of speech is a given.

However, there is no such thing as a right to be listened to. Within Renderosity we see and hear only the galleries and posts. These alone are the means by which respect is earned and, by extension, the chance to be listened to gained.

The exception to this is, and I hope always will be, a reasoned, respectful, factual argument from anyone, irrespective of gallery size or number of postings. Sadly most of the negative criticism fulfils none of these criteria but rather are subjective, emotional discharges that erode the atmosphere of the forum and dissuade newcomers from participating, hence my starting this thread.

My own contributions to this and other forums have been small in comparison to the enormous benefits I have derived from them. I can give only a little at present but I try to contribute where Im able.

And this surely is the basis of good virtual community: that whilst we take what we need, we always give what we can.

Cheers,
Mark


nanotyrannus ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2004 at 8:32 PM

Well said BGFT, I've only been around for less than a year and post maybe 1 or 2 images a month, if that, but if I see somebody who's got a ligitimate question about how to do something I try and post a helpful response that assists that individual with the problem they are asking about. What really drives me nuts to see in these forums is when someone has a question and another person posts a response that follows these lines: "Yeah I know, that's such a problem, Vue never gets anything right, not example or example or anything, if those idiots at eon had done things right then we wouldn't have any of those problems" And the whole spouting off usually has very little to do with the actual question that the person was asking, it doesn't help them solve their problem and really nobody else is interested in hearing for the upteanth millionth time the same complaint that the same person keeps making over and over again with nothing new to add and nothing to do with the topic they're posting under. I can sympathise with some people who just plain aren't happy with the software's performance but if you've got a legitimate problem with something not working right you take it to E-on, and if they can't help you or whatever, just bail out, drop the software and run, "step away from the Vue", complaining about it over and over does nothing more than irritate the people who would actually like to get some help when they have a question, that's where all the negativity toward specific posters ends up coming from, from having their questions answered with "this sofware is crap, don't ask me what would be better or to help you in any way, but I know that this software is garbage". I'm glad this topic came up because frankly I can't remember the last time I actually saw a technical question being posted that wasn't answered with "crap, Vue is crap" by at least one or two posters. It's one thing if somebody asks your opinion like "is Vue 4 right for me" and to be answered with "well, it does these things well, this stuff not so well" but it's quite another when the same question elicits "this software is total garbage, it can't even do this or this or this". There's nothing helpful in that at all and if someone posts a question in the forum they're looking for help, not for flames against a software they're considering as a purchase. They're actually looking for an opinion about the pros and cons the sofware offers. Alright, think I've got it out of my system now, (steps off the soapbox) time to check a render :)


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