I'm going to buy Vue 5. Background: I've played around lightly in Vue 4 D'esprit. I'm a novice user, far away from being professional. I love nature rendered CGI, though. Question: Will I have the need / use for features in Vue 5 Pro (i.e. should I wait for it?) or should I buy Vue 5 non-pro?

Impossible to say, if you don't tell us which your priorities/expectations are.

Definitely buy Vue 5 non pro ! It will take about 6 month of intensive use of Vue, before you will learn about all functions offered by Vue 5, and probably then Vue 5 Pro will be available. You will have not to pay a full price of Vue 5 Pro surely ther would be an important discount for Vue 5 users. I started with old free Vue 2 - I used it for about 8 month before I switched to Vue 4 - and still there was a lot of functions in Vue 2 that I never touched. When you learn to be a pilot, you learn with a Cessna before you switch to a F-22 :-)

When you learn to be a pilot, you learn with a Cessna before you switch to a F-22 :-)

I liked that simile :) I think I'll follow your advice, buy non-pro first until I get a steady grip of the program. Thanks.

Orio, you're absolutely correct that it's impossible to tell if I "need" Pro or not. My expectations are to be able to create landscapes, as in Vue 4. I don't even know 5% of the features in Vue 4 (been using demoversion and therefore no manual) so I'm gonna have a long way to learn the program.

Well, Pro has several advantages in the handling of the scene, particularly about the placement and use of lights, and about the handling of the models. For me, they are worth the difference in price, for other people maybe they are not. If you can make only one expense, I would suggest perhaps to learn Vue 4 better during the next few months, and for Christmas, to buy Vue 5 Pro, since it will be released at that time. If you can spend more, then you could buy Esprit 5 now and sidegrade to Pro at Christmas time. Beware though, you'll spend approximately $400 more, if not even more probably ($150 for the upgrade to esprit 5 + at a minimum of $250 -my guess here- for the sidegrade from Esprit 5 to Pro)

blah, blah, blah. Don't buy vue 5. The lack of a tree editor alone makes it painful to use. If you like nature the pro series has a limited editor that stinks that helps a little. I'd wait for vue5pro demo try it and then decide. They better fix the tree editor in vue5pro or I won't buy that either. Hindsight is 20 20 and even then a bit blurry. : )

That's not completely correct. If the current plants are not enough, you can edit plants in different ways : - you can play with textures of trunc and leaves of existing plants to give them new looks - you can use plants edited by someone else in Vue Pro (e-on offers bundles already) - you can use existing plants in creative ways to create or simulate plants that do not exist in Vue yet. Just looks at the features already available in Vue 5 and you not need anyone's help to decide if it is a good purchase for that price. In your situation, I would wait for a while like Robert said before trying out the pro version.

Too bad there isn't a demoversion of Vue 5.

I am sure there will be one eventually. e-on made one for Vue 4, so why not Vue 5 ? It is just a matter of patience ...

I'm a very impatient man :D

You will be more impatient with Vue5 renderer. I am loitering in Vue forum listening to people about their rendering time with it. I own Vue4pro and I only use its trees and export it to Carrara with Avi format. Thats it. I hope there ll be a patch that reduce renderer time.

"I hope there ll be a patch that reduce renderer time." If you use the network rendering capability on a seme-decent farm, and stay away from HDRI with things like motion blur (which can be comped in post), then there should be no problems using Vue 5 for animation. Sure, it can't do many of the advanced techniques that the pros do, but for a hobbyist, there's no reason it's not good for animation. You should be more concerned with how smooth the renderer outputs an animated scene with moving camera and moving objects together... is there flickering, pixel crawling, roping or banding in the final output? These are things that concern animators the most, because they're harder to correct. Rendertime isn't THAT big a deal to a hobbyist anyway (which most users of Vue 5 are). They're not going to be animating things over 2,000 frames in most cases, and if they find themselves wanting to do more, then it's time to add some more machines to the render farm, or move up to a more powerful animation package.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=739257&Start=1&Artist=czarnyrobert&ByArtist=Yes

I rendered an 2100+ frame animation based on a Mimic created talking head to show a collegue what Vue Pro was capable of the other day using Vue4Pro on a P4 based PC. I didn't network render it. OK I used basic two point lighting and switched off a lot of the render features that would have been overkill but by no means all of the features were off and it wasnt a "tiny render" given that without the sound file the render came out at 0.99Gbytes. It took 10 hours 20 minutes to render. Given that I've rendered still pictures that took twice as long as that on my old P2 I'm more than happy with the render times. Anyway back to your question... Since your new to Vue and want to render landscapes I'd suggest that unless your flush with cash (and since your asking I'm guessing your not) I'd suggest that unless your: 1. Using a lot of other 3D programmes and want to share the files around from and to Vue 2. Really want to do animations with trees moving in the wind 3. Want to programme Python scripts Your probably better off getting Vue and not Pro. Which isn't to say Pro doesn't have a lot of other very useful features like the plant editor, enhanced light controls and enhanced rendering features. But I'm guessing that unless you have a lot of spare time you won't get that far into Vue in the short term. Its taken me since Vue Pro came out to get to the point I'm at now where I'm getting to grips with the power features. Cheers Mark

I second impish but would like to add that the Plant editor in Vue 4 Pro is nothing more than an editor that allows you to edit 'existing' plants. You can adjust thicknes,length, bend change texture etc but you can't really create totally new plant's.

With some creativity you can get pretty far (as an example you could use a plant for the steam and another for the flower but then wind wont work) but if what you want can't be created by modifing an existing plant then your stuck.

For my own part (Using Vue5 now)I will probably only get Vue 5 Pro if there are particles and/or a real plant editor and the upgrade cost from Vue4Pro not is much more than the sidegrade from Vue4Pro to Vue5.

Message edited on: 10/13/2004 08:19

czarnyrobert, Very nice image!! I love it. Yes Vue4Pro have editor on existing plants. The reason only this capability is because of wind dynamics. I wonders if Vue5 got any better on plant editor?

Vue 5 does not have a plant editor, but it does read plants that have been edited with Vue Pro.

czarnyrobert, Your comment regarding carrara , what do you mean exactly . Bringing objects from Vue(like your image) into carrara and rendering it would be a problem. Or, you think Carrara can't handle a scene like that. I am a user of carrara and was thinking about doing more sci-fi type scenes like yours and others. Mike

I've tried Carrara and been very disapointed myself. Aside from the weird interface (I seem to always be in the wrong room ;-) I found the application to be rather "shallow". I much prefer a more focused application like VUe that does less stuff on the paper, but gives you top notch results in the end! I haven't ordered Vue 5 yet (waiting on Pro), but I'm really impressed by what I see of 5 so far. My 2 cents.

Petshoo, I am far from disappointed with carrara , I think it is a great application and far from being shallow. I just wanted to know exactly what czarnyrobert was meaning as I was going to try a scene similar to his . (I like his work very much.) Carrara users can produce some great results. I like it that you can model almost anything in Carrara then render it with great results. Not to pick on Vue but the modeling isn't as strong, you would sort of need to model complex things in other programs.

Vue is a bit special with it focus on outdoor environment while Carrara is just another modelling, animation and rendering application. So then why would anyone buy Carrara now when you can get Softimage XSI Foundation for about $100 less than Carra Pro and in my opinion Carrara is not even close to messure itself against XSI. Comparing the two Carrara Pro should not be more than $199. A comparison also makes Vue Pro look totally overpriced. As Vue Pro has a special focus and would be a nice complemente for any application it could be priced a little higher than the average 3D application but not as high as it now is. Also remember that if you are to do figure animation in Vue you also have to buy Poser. Prices on the 'Real' Pro software is going down while the Semi Pro seems to go up. When the Semi Pro tools starts to cost more than the Real Pro tools things start to go really nuts!!!

What do you get from SoftImage XSI Foundation? I am sure it have limitations. The real XSI is $7,000. They are hiding it in backdoor.

$7,000 you get body, hair, clothing dynamics and particle

I did my homework. I am still in favor with Poser, Vue, Carrara, and ZBrush. Vue and Carrara is very competive products. Renderer and Particle is only features I am keeping my eye on.

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 01:04

Attached Link: http://www.softimage.com/products/Xsi/v4/comparison/default.asp

Soft body dynamic is included.
Rigid body dynamic is not.
Hair and fur is not included.
Cloth is included.
Syflex Advanced Cloth is not.
Particles are included.

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 04:11

"I did my homework. I am still in favor with Poser, Vue, Carrara, and ZBrush. Renderer and Particle is only features I am keeping my eye on." Then you must know that the renderer in XSI Foundation blows the doors off the ones in Carrara, Vue, or Poser (we're talking MentalRay, nuff said there). Zbrush is a different animal altogether really, but I do love that app. I'll be generous and give you a "C+" on your homework this time around, but only because you have Zbrush in your arsenal. ;-)

Hellborn, The network rendering isn't available with XSI foundation , correct. Anyways , I dont think XSI is as easy to use as Carrara,Vue etc. If you get something but can't really produce anything with it , it is not really worth it to get it ,even if it is one of the "best" 3d software. I think it really is the person using the software which makes great images rather than the software by itself. So , I think any 3d software in the right hands can produce great results.

"I dont think XSI is as easy to use as Carrara,Vue etc. If you get something but can't really produce anything with it"

There's really no excuse for not being able to do anything with it. This goes for ANY software. If you make the investment in a product, regardless of it's complexity, it's up to the user to do their homework and learn the ins and outs. XSI comes with tons of useful tutorials, and there's more available out there that cover every aspect of the software. If the user doesn't want to "learn", then that's not the fault of the software.

"So , I think any 3d software in the right hands can produce great results."

Absolutely true. However, some limitations of certain software can compromise an artist's vision dramatically. I refer you to this Carrara thread as an example...

Canoe In Water

With the right software, and some user knowledge, a problem such as this, particularly for animation, could be overcome easily and intuitively with convincing results.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=106&Form.ShowMessage=1952342

Maxxmodelz, I know about this Canoe thread as I posted to it, all it requires is Multimorph($15) or the new Carrara morph to do this . The still shot of the canoe is very easy to do in carrara 3. It is not a problem. Sure there are times when you can't find a solution but often times you have to be creative to find the solution and you learn something in the process. With regards to learning a program , everyone is not equally as good as picking things up. This is where easier programs help out. I am just saying some people will give up if they don't make progress or things don't make sense to them.Where if they see the progress they make then there is more incentive to continue. With this being said I do find XSI a good deal and have thought about buying it but I can get all I need out of Carrara and am happy with the images I can produce using it.

I am sure that there are some missing functions in any XSI products. For example plant dynamics or library to import in. I really like VUE plant library to import in scene. It saved my work tons!!

"I am just saying some people will give up if they don't make progress or things don't make sense to them."

Common problem in all aspects of life, not just 3D. People often fail at something because they don't try hard enough, then they pass the blame (in the case of 3D, onto the software). There's nothing inherently difficult about learning the high-end apps, there's just MORE to learn, and many people are too lazy to do the tutorials and read the manuals. Yet, some of these same folks will spend countless hours struggling to come up with "workarounds" to do things in low-end apps that they weren't originally designed to do... go figure. ;-)

" I am sure that there are some missing functions in any XSI products. For example plant dynamics or library to import in."

What do you mean by "plant dynamics"? If there's one thing XSI is good at, it's dynamic simulations (wind, gravity, collisions, etc). It's true, there aren't many (if any) plant libraries for it though. This is where programs like Vue are extremely handy to be sure. Vue does what it does, and does a good job of it.

Message edited on: 10/14/2004 12:59

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=790098&Start=1&Sectionid=6&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNe

Message edited on: 10/19/2004 11:13