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Vue F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Oct 26 8:50 am)
Subject: Vue Forum and Censorship?
I don't think that anybody ever was censored here reporting some problems in any versions of Vue. It is the tone that makes the music. Attacking people here - including the moderators - is not what we need really. Regarding your question. #1 Look into the gallery and see. If this software is as bad as you imply how can so many people do so many excellent images? Isn't that statement enough? #2 "It is ESSENTIAL that if there are problems with the current version of Vue and they are NOT addressed in the next upgrade, I will NOT be purchasing that upgrade" You ask us to beta-test for you so that you can safe money? Why should i do that? What are you giving me for that? 50% of the money you safe? Or some sharing here in the Vue community? Because thats what it is here all about. SHARING. You explicitely said you do not want to but demand that from us. Very nice. One last remark. I read a lot the last two days about existing bugs in the Vue versions. Name me one software that does not have any. Only one. I have one simple rule for myself. If a software does not do what i need it for i simply look for another one and leave the other behind me. No need for big noises. I am sure there is the optimal software for everybody.
One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.
Come on, Megalodon, you can't be serious! This guy bonnyclump has been flooding this Vue forum with negative posts for a while now. From what I read, these are just loose statements. The guy doesn't even own Vue 5! I'm actually surprised that he hasn't been banned yet. Don't talk about censorship when his posts are still readable by anyone. And don't base your judgement on what a guy like that says. I didn't get Vue 5 yet, because I'm wiating for the Vue Pro 5 release - lie you. But from what I heard, Vue 5 is a very nice piece of software, and very solid. Pete
I can understand when someone posts an actual problem, but when you lump complaints here, I think that is not acceptable. Meaning, if there are real problems with the software, it should be addressed to the manufacturer. Any problems I have had in the past, was because I did not know how to do it correctly in the Vue software. It is also not acceptable to down grade anything for reasons of just stirring the pot so to speak. Simply put, if there is a problem, first find out if it is your lack of knowledge, if it is not and you find it is an actual problem with software, again, go to the source, cause last I new, fixing the actual program is not up my field. I have noticed Bonnyclump's comments, but never really read an issue, specific with there being an actual problem. Just stirring the pot. Sharen
Ok... here we go again :) Little recipe for forum censroship.... errr... moderation : - Keep thinking happy thoughts. - Be patient... very patient. - Like it or not, the Renderosity Term of Service is our guideline to decide which post stays or goes. If you haven't done so in a while, read it again please :) - If a post includes personal attacks - it will be deleted. That goes posts including variations of 'brain dead', 'morrons', 'stupid' and other 'incompetent'. - If a post is about stirring up problems with complaints or whining - it will be deleted. - If you have personal issues with someone - talk to me. If you announce it openly on the forum, it will be deleted. - If you post something out of topic, it will be up to my judgement to decide if it fits the forum and should be deleted or not. For example, politics or religion = BAD. Personal announcements, references to art or sources of inspiration = GOOD. Now what is 'acceptable' to do in the forum in this atmosphere of 'censorship' (I hear boots on the pavement each time I read that word) : - Share your experience of Vue and how you are using it. - Show us what can be done with it. - If something cannot be done with it, how about discussing how to get around it, or simulate it ? - Report issues or bugs (but not without reporting them to e-on support first). - Show us work in progress and discuss how to improve what you are doing - Have fun ! If you read this far, these are my little rules to decide when to delete or to keep a post. Call it censorship if you like.... from my point of view, I call it protection of the forum, or maybe self defense.
- agiel - www.linfa.net
Megladon: I'm with you man. I too am a Lightwaver with Ozone 2 and Vue 4, and currently check in to monitor the feasability of VuePro. For me Ozone was kind of a disappointment, but would be very interested in Vue Pro 5 if it integrates well with LW, as I understand that Vue4 Pro did not. Wabe: Megladon is not asserting that the users here Betatest for others, but if you can't get decent feedback about a product here, where exactly should we get it? From the E-On website? He is not asserting that he expects any software product to be bug free, he's merely trying to determine if it will or will not perform as per his own requirements. Obviously Vue 5 seems to be an excellent product, and I am certainly happy with the value of my Vue4 with Mover combo. He is in no way (as far as I can determine) knocking E-On, but is trying to determine (as am I) if V5pro can be expected to work well with Lightwave. What's the problem???
@krimpr - this is the problem for me: "It is ESSENTIAL that if there are problems with the current version of Vue and they are NOT addressed in the next upgrade, I will NOT be purchasing that upgrade" Sounds to me - go onto this ice and see if it keeps you. If not i will not follow. And one other thing. As a German, second generation after the Nazi regime i am very very sensitive to the word "censorship". I can't hear that really having all the stories of my parents in mind that lived under a real censoring regime and suffered for their whole live. Maybe you should keep that in mind as well. But however - much too much wind. I will end this discussion here for me.
One day your ship comes in - but you're at the airport.
Well, Megalodon, I'm not quite sure what you're asking for, unless it's exclusively Bonnyclumps "constructive" opinion on Vue and Vue Pro. You should understand that some of us who have been around the forum for a long time are more than a bit tired of hearing about software-slamming, with no attempt to discuss issues. The moderator here is always willing to help when there is a good, mature discussion going on about issues or problems. In fact, one of the users here did a lot of research, with the input of quite a few other users, and found a problem in Vue 4 Pro that was forwarded to E-on with the result that they were able to implement a fix. So don't think that problems or issues get swept under the virtual carpet. But complaining without discussion is pretty fruitless. I don't have Lightwave/Ozone, so can't comment on Vue 4 Pro's interoperability with it. And I don't think E-on has released a list of features they intend to fold into Vue 5 Pro...I'm waiting for it too, as I use Vue 4 Pro almost exclusively. One can assume things that were included in Vue 5, like the new lighting options, will be included in Pro...but who knows, there might be other goodies too? There are plenty of folks here willing to speculate on what might-or-might-not be in 5 Pro, and/or to discuss difficulties you might be having with Vue 4 Pro. As you said...in a mature and constructive manner.
Okay....
Obviously I must have worded my questions in a not-so-constructive manner. I apologize to ALL and meant no disrespect to ANYONE -including the moderator Agiel! :)
Wabe: "If this software is as bad as you imply..." I really don't see where my post implies that I think that Vue is bad software. It isn't. I like it and use it. Where Vue4 Pro is concerned, I (IMO) that it really is not ready for prime time in the Pro sector. But hey, that's my opinion and I am not ranting about E-On not fixing the LW import texture problem - I am merely stating a fact. And... you are most definitely correct - attacking the moderator and/or other people here is most definitely NOT what we need here!
"You ask us to beta-test for you so that you can safe money? Why should i do that?" Well... yes and no. You are implying that I have no right to wait to see what the problems may be? And are you also implying that if you find problems with the software that you will keep it to yourself? I doubt that. If there is a problem you will want it to be fixed. Many people here use Vue all of the time. I do not. I use it when I have a job that will require it. I do not have the time to "beta test" software so I use these forums as a guide. Is this wrong to do? I don't think so.
Petshoo: "This guy bonnyclump has been flooding this Vue forum with negative posts for a while now." Okay, I've only checked the first page of the forum and noticed these few posts. I wanted an unbiased and current opinion of the pros and cons of the software - particularly the cons since these are usually items glossed over by those who really like the software and often overlook the shortcomings.
Sams3D: Agreed. is it a problem with the software or user error/lack of knowledge! And this is one of the reasons to have this forum. I pretty much agree with your every point. Thanks!
Agiel: Not a problem. I'm just trying to ascertain precisely what is wrong with the software at this moment. Believe me, I am NOT trying to stir any pot with negativity - I would just like an honest and unbiased opinion. I will not take ANY opinion as the total truth concerning the software - but I do want to be made aware of it. Thanks!
Krimpr: Thanks for the support! :) Hopefully E-On will address all of the issues AND update Ozone2 soon. I would love to see skies like those of the upcoming Terragen in Ozone.
Wabe: Using the word "censorship" in my post was (IMO) an appropriate choice. I am sorry that you are sensitive to the word, but knowing that you are German would in no way change my mind to use the word. There is censorship all over the world TODAY, and because someone brings it up in a forum where you would rather not hear it, you get upset? I'm truly sorry you feel that way. It was not directed at all (or ANY) Germans and when writing the post it never crossed my mind. Should it have? I don't think so. If that were the case, everyone everywhere would have to censor everything they wrote/said here for fear it might negatively affect someone else. Nothing would ever get said. And... there were no racial slurs implied in my post and none were intended.
Djeser: Actually no - not just Bonnyclumps' opinion. I should have worded that differently and requested ALL opinions. I most definitely stand corrected on that point. I'm hoping that Vue5 Pro addresses all of the shortcomings of Vue4 Pro. As to the texture import from LW - that may very well have been fixed in Vue4 Pro. I haven't had the time to check it out. Hopefully it has - that was one of the main points that kept us from using Vue4 Pro. This problem was sent to E-On and the first two service releases did not fix it. I know that there are other problems, but when something important (to us) like this is not repaired, it makes us unhappy and we can't use the software. :( I'm hoping that Vue5 Pro will be great and that we will buy it - but as I said in my first post, we will wait to see the problems and make our decision(s) from that point. We shall see.
I apologize to all who thought I was "stirring the pot" for no reason - I was NOT trolling and only want truthful realistic opinions. I felt that since Bonnyclump was voicing negativity, I might be able to find out exactly WHAT he/she was talking about and if there were any truth to the points. That's all.
I would appreciate ANY opinions (negative AND positive) regarding problems with the current incarnation of Vue4 Pro as well as any with the new Vue5 standard.
I am NOT here to rant at E-On - I think that the Vue line is a great addition and I find that it's the easiest landscape-making software around! I want it to improve AND address all of the shortcomings. I really WANT to buy Vue5 Pro. Only time (and this forum) will tell.
Thank you all for your time - again, it IS appreciated!
Dave Williams
Megalodon
I like my Vue & have had no "real" problems. Any problems so far have been my fault. I follow a simple set of rules: 1. If I have a problem I post here & try to get solutions 90% of the time the "problem" is solved. 2. If no solution is found here, the I post at E-on. I've always gotten prompt & immediate responses, maybe not the answer I want, but the problem is solved via their fix or work around. 3. Always remember NO software is perfect, all come with some sort of "problems". I like Vue, and always have found e-on to be responsive. I don't do animation so if problems exist in that area I'm unaware. As far as others ;), I quite frankly, was sick n tired several months back with all the negative yak....So I for one am glad, it's finally being brought to a halt :) Happy Rendering! :)
I'm waiting for vue5 pro as well. I'm also watching the board closely, seeing how people like 5. Just like I did with vue4/pro I see the strengths and weaknesses. By the time I get my copy I have a pretty clear idea where I'll have a problem. I see no problem with this forum. If people find a problem they ask here, people help if they can. Discuss it, contact vue. Where is the need to slam the software? Or people who love it? If the sofeware is too bugged for you, get another. Remember, most of the time it's not the software but the user that's bugged.
An open word of support for agiel. Based upon what I've seen, he's doing his job right down the line. And it's not a position that I envy. Too much grief.
agiel picks on me always. I have spent 1000 dollars on eon products and I am not happy with the software or their service. I wished I had used my money for high end 3d app like 3d studio max 7. There are way too many bugs that have existed and been past on to the next version. I expect more but for some reason other vue users don't. One thing I've noticed is pc games are following vue's trend of being released too soon. This makes the consumer sit through patch after patch before being able to play the game all the way through. Ascaron game Sacred is a great example. Sure you could place the blame on me for not knowing how to use or play the game but that is what I would expect from people who work with these companies that produce buggy games and apps. Please don't delete this post agiel. I wish I was the vue moderator because I truly believe in freedom of expression.
Bonnyclump,
I can understand your disappointment and sympathize, but I believe that the constant negativity has been the problem. Could you for instance list everything that you believe are problems with Vue/VuePro in one post? I would be most interested to see the list and perhaps others can respond CONSTRUCTIVELY rather than negatively to the post.
If we have this comprehensive list and there is a consensus, then perhaps E-On will begin to address these specific issues. So far in the list, I only see that it is impossible to render starfields over a network. My question would be: What happens when you try? I would seriously like to know the details.
And everyone else, regardless of your feelings towards any individuals posting here (specifically Bonnyclump),please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software. If you think it is user error, let that possibility be known. I would really like to keep this on a professional level and acquire a detailed list of problems.
Thanks!
Dave Williams
Megalodon
I would be most interested to see the list and perhaps others can respond CONSTRUCTIVELY rather than negatively to the post.
A constructive request invites constructive responses.
Likewise, negative assertions invite negative responses.
And everyone else, regardless of your feelings towards any individuals posting here (specifically Bonnyclump),please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software.
One tends to get what one gives.
"One tends to get what one gives." As I said.... please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software. If you can't do this, then please simply do not respond. Facts and opinions about THE SOFTWARE have been requested, not about other users. Thank You, Dave Williams Megalodon
As I said.... please do not post a negative response - base your responses on the software. If you can't do this, then please simply do not respond. Facts and opinions about THE SOFTWARE have been requested, not about other users.
I, and all others in this forum, will respond in any thread as we choose -- whether it be positively or negatively.
Not as we are instructed/ordered to. It's a free country. At least in the U.S.
Threads don't come with steering wheels. And no one except a mod/admin can come close to dictating what others are allowed to say.
I am perfectly willing to be positive -- when that's the spirit in which the matter is broached.
Well Xenophonz... Thank you for contributing non-constructive remarks when only constructive remarks were requested. Maturity and professionalism in the responses were requested - you have provided niether. "Not as we are instructed/ordered to. It's a free country." You were NOT instructed OR ordered to do - it was a REQUEST! Perhaps you do not understand the difference or just wish to create confrontation? Regardless, the point is obviously wasted. "I am perfectly willing to be positive -- when that's the spirit in which the matter is broached." Yes... obviously. Re-reading my initial post, I see nothing that is directly negative to ANYONE including E-On and wished only to re-open the discussion on a mature level. But please, re-read it and pull something negative out of the hat since that is apparently ALL that you wanted to say. I can see that it is virtually impossible to continue the discussion of Pros and Cons of the software. Here we are at post 21 and all I've seen is one item from Bonnyclump on the "Con" side but no backing it up with info. And Petshoo has already said that it CAN be done. So that is that. It's a pity that something as simple as a discussion on the Pro's and Con's of Vue cannot be conducted with maturity and professionalism. There are apparently too many people with steadfast opinions and those who do not want to answer questions with helpful info but rather with negative barbs. Oh well....
Thank you for contributing non-constructive remarks when only constructive remarks were requested. Maturity and professionalism in the responses were requested - you have provided niether.
Once again -- you don't run the show. Others will answer as they like.
Re-reading my initial post, I see nothing that is directly negative to ANYONE including E-On and wished only to re-open the discussion on a mature level.
Quote: "Vue Forum and Censorship?"
This is an odd way to title a thread concerning a request for information about software.
You are the one that brought up some controversial points. You shouldn't be suprised when this action results in some controversial responses.
It's a pity that something as simple as a discussion on the Pro's and Con's of Vue cannot be conducted with maturity and professionalism. There are apparently too many people with steadfast opinions and those who do not want to answer questions with helpful info but rather with negative barbs.
Stop inserting barbs into your own posts, and perhaps no one else will respond in kind.
As for "maturity and professionalism" -- these things follow where they are seen.
Disagreement does not, in and of itself, constitute a display of "immaturity and unprofessionalism".
It merely constitutes disagreement.
As for your desire to seek information concerning e-on's software -- I would recommend starting another thread. One without the word "Censorship" included in the header.
I'd give up Megaladon. It's painfully obvious that this thread will not offer anything useful. If you find the information that you seek please IM me as I'd like to know as well. I've checked with E-On regarding my upgrade from Vue (4) options and it seems I may do well with my particular circumstances to upgrade to Vue 4 pro and then to 5 upon it's release. Finding out about it's current compatability with LW however will apparantly not happen here.
It's painfully obvious that this thread will not offer anything useful.
Good point.
Why not start a thread with the header: "Question concerning Vue compatiblilty with Lightwave"?
Then people might be able to tell what is being sought.
Also -- such a header would be much more likely to yield a positive response to the request.
However -- the header "Vue Forum and Censorship?" carries an implied accusation. And it does not lead one to conclude that answers concerning LW/Vue issues are being sought by the poster.
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I am the "quintessential lurker" on this forum with hardly ever a post - though this Vue forum is one of five I always "survey" each time I log on at Renderosity.
I've noticed that Bonnyclump has apparently been "locked and censored" quite a bit recently. Reviewing several of her recent posts I see that she (he?) can be somewhat "grating" and perhaps not the best at getting her point across in the most diplomatic way.
Be that as it may, one of my reasons for checking this Vue Forum is seeing what the latest problems are with E-On software. I have both Vue4, Vue4 Pro and Ozone2 for Lightwave. I have not (nor will buy) Vue5 because I am waiting for the upgrade to Vue5 Pro. More than likely I will NOT be order a pre-upgrade to the Pro 5 version until I find out (through this forum) what the problems are and the answers from E-On. Ozone2 for LW has not had a service release in a LONG time and it feels like all development has stopped. Though... we keep hoping.
It is ESSENTIAL that if there are problems with the current version of Vue and they are NOT addressed in the next upgrade, I will NOT be purchasing that upgrade. Of course it does depend on how important these problems are - though if these problems from the previous verion persist into the next version without being addressed, I begin to wonder how committed to their customers E-On truly is.
I have been underwhelmed with Vue4 Pro support when it comes to importing Lightwave object textures. The response I received essentially said that "hopefully it will make it into the next service release." It did not. From that time till now, I have not had the time to test out the latest version since we've had a great deal of work come in that has not called for any symbiosis with Lightwave and Vue4 Pro. We also have WorldBuilder4 Pro and when we have the time, we will be testing both pieces of software with Lightwave and determine which will work better. At that point one piece of software will be on the upgrade path, one will not.
So... I would like to invite Bonnyclump to give a realistic AND constructive review of (particularly) Vue 4 Pro and Vue5. I also would like to NOT hear how bad E-On is, but rather what has improved and what has not - in her/his opinion. I would also appreciate that this reply NOT be censored so that we all can get a serious look at one persons opinion - as long as it is NOT a rant at E-On! Please keep this response (and all subsequent responses) on a mature and constructive level. I am sure that everyone here (E-On fan or not) would like to view clear pros and cons to their software.
Thank You!
Dave Williams
(aka Megalodon)