I would like to ask everyone out there a couple of questions, to get a sense on how viable something would be. Together with a couple of business partners, I am thinking on purchasing a motion capture rig to assist me with some animation projects. As a secondary part of the venture, I was thinking on putting together motion packs that could be used in Poser and maybe some other apps and perhaps sell through here. Now, I know that there is a lot of motion capture data available out there free and for sale. My experience has been that they are either expensive ($200.00 for a motion? no way!) or require a lot of tweaking to get them to work with poser characters... My plan is to create motions targeted specifically for Poser and hopefully at a pricepoint that is affordable for everyone. Now, my questions to all of you out there are: 1.- How interested would you be in purchasing this type of product? 2.- What types of motions would you like to see? 3.- What characters would you like to see motion files for? I thank you all for your help! Bryan

How do you target them for Poser?

Before BVH motion files are a really used and embraced by the community, Poser will need to overhaul it's animation process. The reason being that animation in Poser is wacky, and BVH files most often don't deliver. I've bought some BVH packs here in the store and I was more or less frustrated and disappointed in them. I do not think that you will recover your investment in a timely and profitable manner. -WTB

"1.- How interested would you be in purchasing this type of product? 2.- What types of motions would you like to see? 3.- What characters would you like to see motion files for? " 1.- Depends on the quality of the motions. High quality BVH motions that don't "skate" the figure across the floor, and don't require joint map editing in a motion editor to "form-fit" the motion to a character or figure is something I'd be very interested in. 2.- Any and all types of motions, from ambient subtle things like just waiting for a bus (looking at watch, glancing down the street, etc.) to high impact actions like fighting, kicking, punching, jumping, etc. Mostly, I'd be intersted in "everyday" motions... like getting out of bed, or up from a chair or sitting in a chair, etc. Things that would make the most common actions in most animation scenerios easier. 3.- Of course you'd need to support the Millenium figures (vicki, Mike, David, etc.) if you plan on making money with this, but more importantly for me... I'd personally like to see some for less-used, lower poly figures like P5's Judy/EJ, Don, and possibly some of the toon figures like MayaDoll/AnimeDoll.

"The reason being that animation in Poser is wacky, and BVH files most often don't deliver. I've bought some BVH packs here in the store and I was more or less frustrated and disappointed in them." That's because the people who are selling them here aren't making them correctly. Joints aren't mapped correctly on most of the ones I've used. This can be fixed, but it's not always an easy job, and often you need to take the bvh into Motionbuilder or some other motion editor and fix them to work with Poser figures. If this guy can do it correctly and in a high quality manner, then BVH files would work in Poser VERY smoothly and easily. I don't see why not. Poser's animation capability is there... there's nothing inherantly wrong with it, it's the same kind of curve graph that's used in just about every other 3D animation package I've worked with... the problem is, it lacks certain extra features to make it more powerful, but the basics are there. :-) It's just a simple "grass roots" dopesheet and keyframe editor without a lot of the bells and whistles.

Everyday motions for sure; fitted to Misaki. (I know that won't happen, but it doesn't hurt to ask!)

I agree with number 3 of maxxmodelz` answer

1. Very interested but only if they are pose files, BVH is to much hassle even if well done. 2. Every day sets, and maybe two people interacting 3.The V3 mil figures Steve

First of all, I want to thank you for your responses, now to address some of your questions...

I'm targeting these motions specifically to poser by exporting the bone structure from Poser characters and bringing it into Motionbuilder, where the "industry standard" bone structure is mapped bone to bone to the poser model. The motion captured by the rig is mapped to these bones, cleaned up, and then are re-exported out as bvh and brought into Poser.

By doing this, you minimize some of the problems you can get by using generic bvh in Poser, such as skating. I have a couple of examples of both in Animation outlet. The latest one "troopers in tutu's" was not characterized, the bvh file was applied directly to the models. You can see a certain amount of skating... The second one "robot" was characterized, so the motion is a lot smoother...

I am planning on starting out with a lot of ambient and day to day motions, since it seems that those are the most lacking out there. And although I hadn't thought of putting the packages out in native poser "pose" files, that is only an extra step...so it wouldn't be a problem.

Since I don't own some of the other characters such as animedoll and Mayadoll, I might ask some of you to export a single frame Poser bvh so I can characterize them... but we can get to that later... :)

In the next few weeks I'll be putting out some test "freebie" packages using some of the free raw mocap data out there, so that I can work out any kinks beforehand.

Keep the questions and suggestions coming, I thank you for the input!

Bryan

Add me to the interested list! Call me a control freak, but I like the idea of bvh to play with; I can cut and paste and tweak until I'm happy with the results Any characters you need a bvh frame for, I'll make the time. I've got the DAZ kids, P4 and P5 figures, Natalia and Dina and the fantasy derivatives from Dacort, Mayadoll and the Animedoll, Neftoon Gal, Koshini 1 and 2, LaRoo, HER... Get the idea I'm an addict...? :P I'm starting to wonder if maybe we're getting close to a threshold, here. There seems to be a steadily growing group of people who are interested in making things move. Probably due to the fact that you -have- to create an animation to properly set up dynamic hair and cloth. Apps like Vue that permit anyone to establish a renderfarm at a reasonable cost don't hurt, either.

I would be interested, too. I mainly use the Millennium versions of the DAZ people for still pictures but V2, M2 and the original MilKids are less memory taxing for animations on my PC. I would really love to see sets of BVH files for both the male and female figures for ballroom dancing (tango, waltz, etc.) as well as everyday motions. Eating with silverware and drinking from glassware are two that instantly come to mind.

I would definitely be interested in this kind of product. Everyday motions would be very usefull. I would also like to see some well done heroic motions (leaps, flips, falls, rope swing, climbing, etc.). I also like the idea about including the animated pose file for poser as well.

Count me in also as someone who is willing to assist you in any way for this project. I have experience with MotionBuilder as well as LifeForms 4, and have worked with Poser and BVH extensively. Just send me an IM here if you need free extra assistance with anything for this project.

I would certainly be a customer. I have purchased sets of motions from DAZ for $40. Everyday is of course what seems to be of interest: 1) brushing hair. 2) sit-stand, kneel-stand, lay down, get up, walk-open/close door walk 3) take off coat 4) set of different paced walks 5) stairs 6) ladder 7) jump down, jump across 8) sneak up walking but bent over 9) open/close drawer, cupboard 10) dig with a shovel 11) Full bow and arrow from quiver to shot. 12)

1. I too would certainly be a customer 2. From ambient subtle things like just waving, to sitting down, standing up, opening a door, closing a door, talking, playing with her hair, opening a car door and getting in to a car, walking up stairs and down stairs, running then turning hard left or right, singing {holding a mike}, riding a bike, stalking, running with a rifle, Sword combat {hopefully involving V3 M3}, Martal arts moves, the list can go on. 3. Don & Judy, V2 & M2, V3 & m#, David, Freak There is a lot of work involved, good luck with your interpize thank you Gary

I bet you'd do land rush business at Renderotica--assuming you were willing to do "those" kinds of animations :-)

Actually he could, since 'Rotica has the two animation galleries. And it wouldn't have to be anything explicit. Come hither walks, caresses of varying speeds and locations, reclining to 'I wish to be pleased' postures, 'Helloo Sailor,' heavy on the bongos type idle motions... ....although I have to admit, the idea of working out the mocap logistics for that would be a story in itself. Do you customize body stockings to hold the tracking markers yet leave critical areas ready for action? Use adhesive targets on the skin? Will the adhesive hold? Will the actors hold still long enough to put the markers on? Is there any way to position the sensors so they can actually -see- the targets while the actors are acting? Are they acting? You could make a fortune just documenting this.... Seriously, if this goes through, once the idle and everyday motion sets are done, other things that would be wonderful to have: Proper martial arts motions. Someone who knows Kendo for the sword, motions for a user of Bo and twin stick would also be fabulous. Each of them could be broken into multiple packages, each pack comprising a portion of a kata. Various archery firing motions, using longbow, shortbow, crossbow. If you had access to firearms and stunt blanks, bvh's of holding, drawing, and firing various guns would also sell, I would think, particularly if the firing motions had the recoil aspects, probably one of the hardest things to get right. Each AH! Something that I =know= would sell as an animator's resource is a set of generic motions designed, not for use particularly, but for -timing- purposes. Eye blink cycles, respiration for the meshes that have those morphs, simple motions where you can count frames and angle change to apply to actual keyframing.

You could do cat and dog motions probably, and any other non violent animals...

You could have a combat series all the running, crouching, rising up to fire, etc. All kinds of sports, tennis, volleyball, boxing... Equestrian sets, showjumping would look neat though I'm not sure the horse would cooperate with the mocap process.

The horse would probably cooperate... but there is a reason most cat photos show them sleeping! :)=

I've brought this up before... We need simple motion "building blocks". Walk to sit. Sit to stand. Basic turnaround while standing. From these, lots of actions can be "assembled". I'd much rather have a simple turn while standing (a very complicated move if you think about it) which I'd use a lot rather than another fancy martial arts move - which I'd use maybe once if at all. And I agree with maxxmodelz up above. I've bought most of the BVH packages in the marketplace and far too many of them are flawed or useless. Some are downright silly and are not what they describe.