Cara, I hear ya.. I guess my option isn't really meant to be a solution for that problem. I agree turning off a Vote button wont help that. Mine is more about my dis-satisfaction with the H20, and as almost a protest, withdrawl my images from the slanted politics involved. I have thought about it a bit over time. And I dont see anyway to change the H20. So I am wanting a way to change my participation in it. I agree there are a lot of artists that should be there that NEVER get in. And that sucks. I for one, just dont see a resolve. -Bruce

I realize there are people that try and stroke thier ego by possibly abusing the spirit of what the H20 is. But also I think some of the regulars you see in the H20 aren't always actually pimping for votes as much as they are added to many peoples favorite artist list. When they upload a new image people click the notice they recieve, and go straight to the picture. They like it then they vote. They haven't actually looked at some of the other images that have been uploaded by the other artists. Also I've noticed there are a phenomenal number of artists uploading in overwhelming numbers at any given time of the day. So it's not that inconcievable that some really great artists slip through the cracks without ever being seen. That holds true especially for new artists, that haven't built up a fan base. That's one reason you see some artists who have the same names commenting on thier work every-time. That's not to say these people are friends with each other, they're just people that really like what that artist does, and comment when they recieve notice of a new upload. I guess my point is I'm having difficulty seeing the problems here as so cut and dry as what some would have us all believe.

Hyth, I totally hear what you are saying. I am not saying every single image is in the H20 because of a screwed result of bad voting. BUT! there is high number of artists that have images in everytime that are the ones that do a lot of commenting on other peoples work. Infact, I spoke to an artist that is in the H20 all the time. Wont say who. But this person even told me they think their work gets in because of all the comments he/she leaves on others work. Doing that often will get you the return comments/votes. And one point you made I dont totally agree with, but its just my opinion, when you say: When they upload a new image people click the notice they recieve, and go straight to the picture. They like it then they vote. I am not sure if people "liking it" has anything to do with a lot of the votes out there anymore. I think it has more to do with them likeing the artist. Not the artwork.

I only vote if I really LOVE something... liking gets comments only... cara

"I guess my point is I'm having difficulty seeing the problems here as so cut and dry as what some would have us all believe."

No, while it may not be "cut and dry" there is a basis for the complaints that began over a year ago. A specific incident. The H20 has been dominated from that point on.

Now the favorite artist thing could be a small part of it, I know I check out Prog every time I get an email that he's uploaded something and that leads to voting much of the time. But I base my votes on the artwork, not the screen name.

over a YEAR ago? And nothing's been attempted to amend the issue? that's nuts! cara

** over a YEAR ago? And nothing's been attempted to amend the issue? that's nuts!** Heh,heh..that's RR ;)

There could, in fact, be no simpler solution. >Use your voice.< View those images that are in the H20. If you think they are garbage, Say So. Oh, don't outright call anyone's work "garbage" of course, but tell them what you honestly think of the piece. When honest critiques begin the hit these images, those with substandard works who have friends voting for them, will no longer Want their images so forward to the public. At the least they will work to produce work that generates less negative comment. More likely than not, the quality of one's work will become more important in what is seen in the H20.

looniper... Sounds like a good idea. But I have done this in the past. As well as a couple people I know have done the same thing. Even when I gave crits/comments that were not rude I would get IMs inreturn telling me how wrong I was to leave a comment like that. When a bad pic has 30 comments of "Great Work! This is wonderful", then one honest one with a crit, it sticks out like a sore thumb. I have even gotten IMs from people OTHER than the artist whose work I left the comment on. Bashing me. While I am all for Honesty around here at R (since it seems many here are not in comments), I dont see that as having any effect on the h20 voting. -B

I tend to agree with Striving..altho a nice idea, leaving comments that are less than excellent will get you targeted for being a troll....I have seen it and heard it many times here..

agreed... unfortunately

How hard would it be for Ren to add an 'active member' flag to their database. What I mean is, you don't get to be an 'active member' until you submit something; then restrict voting to active members. At least this would eliminate the people setting up empty accounts just to vote from. You could even extend that to limit voting to only galleries that you have submitted work to yourself. That way you're only being judged by your peers.

I like the active member suggestion! However, I disagree with limiting voting to only galleries you've submitted to because I may not use Poser, but I have an artistic opinion... someone else may not write, but may want to say something about one of my poems... cara

I dont know how that 'active member' thing would work..I am an active member, but I have removed my gallery...as many here have done..to automatically 'demote' members wouldn't be a good idea me thinks.

why did you remove your gallery? cara

Well, there were a few big blowups around here some time ago..lot of members removed their galleries in protest..me being one of them. ;)

It's rather sad, isn't it? We just lost gebe and not so long ago Ironhart, and instead of celebrating art and how meaningful it can be to people, we continue to natter about who is or is not in a meaningless contest of who has the most friends. I don't have a gallery because I'm not an artist, but even I know that real artists don't create to win popularity contests. They create because that's what they as artists do. They inspire. They communicate. They rise above the public taste and create something never seen before. The Hot 20 isn't about art. But your galleries can be.

It's easy to ignore the Hot 20. Don't look at it. Let the friends nominate and vote for each other. Who cares? It doesn't matter.

Instead, look in the galleries and put your lists out on the forums of the real artists, the real finds.

They're there. They are the ones who should be saluted.

Even a non-artist like me can figure that one out.

Very sad. The Hot 20 is not what gebe and Ironhart were about. They did what they did, and shared what they did out of love. That seems to me to be what art is about.

I guess, as always, I'm wrong. Oh, and before anyone yammers, the views so stated are mine and mine alone and not representative of the views of the Administrators, Moderators, or Coordinators of this website.

Message edited on: 12/07/2004 12:46

"Instead, look in the galleries and put your lists out on the forums of the real artists, the real finds. They're there. They are the ones who should be saluted." Well said!!! cara

OK, I know this thread has been dead for awhile but I jsut had a thought that made me giggle that I wanted to share... You know how if you click on the images in the "Hot 20" you can't directly vote on them... well, what if you could but (wait for it) all vote buttons when you go to the image view from the Hot 20 would have a "Vote to REMOVE" on them, so then ppl could get all the friends they wanted to vote for them, whereas the ppl who want a more fair system could have their say in a "vote" button AGAINST the image. a sleep-deprived and naughty little cara ;>

I like it!!!! Lets do it. PS, it will never happen.. R wont go for it. They never even replied to my email that I wrote about the H20 issue. Ignored me completely.

I got replies to my emails, basically "Thanks for the suggestions(s), it will be passed on to the appropriate person" but that was all... shrug But it is a funny idea I think :) cara

Dear striving, My sincerest apologies if you sent an email that was not responded to. Please send me the email and I will personally review it and get back with you. Best wishes, LillianH Renderosity Admin.

Lillian, Cool. I will send you a copy as well.

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