Feel like a 39 year old cry baby writing this. But, G's what does it take? I make a comment (Rating "Excellent"), then I will get one in return? Every time I put a pic up, I end up depressed, confused the next day or two about.....Never fails. Although my pics are not art, they to me is considered how much I can push poser(5), with talent, gaining skills from what I have. And then their are the ones, who make a pic, which I dunno what it is, which is ok, and do deserve a mark to (depend what it is like). Like I seen it many times, end they end up way triple views. Anyone who makes a pic pushing the envelope in Poser I give credit and a excellent. I dunno if this will be a rant forum (Hope not). But I had to let my feelings and fustration out. I think the gallery is not for me. Why do I bother. My place is in Animations.

Message edited on: 12/28/2004 07:31

"Every time I put a pic up, I end up depressed, confused the next day or two about.....Never fails." I'm confused. What are you depressed about, Robo? That you don't get a lot of views on your pictures?

Thats what I mean..expecting a lot of what I do. Views, credits. I make a Render, and "wow!" I say. "Got to show this in the gallery." Next day or two, feels like I made crap. I believe I am not the only one that feels like this.

Message edited on: 12/28/2004 07:51

well i dont see why you should feel like crap all of them look really great and you do have a lot of compliments coming your way. I don't even get that, but i'm not in it for the compliments, I'm in it because I rather enjoy working with 3D and it's a great creative outlet for me. Stop trying to worry about what others might think and focus on yourself, if you like it then it's truely yours. and no one less or one more compliment can take that away from you! You are doing a very nice job, keep it up! ---Essie

Don't feel bad that's why I rarely bother with the gallery on here. I broke down and put one pic up and prob won't put too much up on my gallery. I'm still rather new here and I prefer live animation motion myself rather than rendering. I mainly stick to making character models and sometimes animation shorts. I hear what your saying tho. Give it time, start posting in other foums, say hello to people and you'll get more views. Just because you give an excellent rating to someone doesn't always mean they'll return the favor. ;)

Message edited on: 12/28/2004 08:20

Thanks GothKurlz and Zippy. Sometimes I need to remimd myself those, when my mind is busy on other things.

Hey man, don't take it so damn seriously! Here's the way I see it straight up: The gallery is just a side-show, for the most part, largely consisting of some people who find it cute to mindlessly flatter each other. I'm certain you take your work seriously, so what do you really care if a few people who glance at your picture in passing happen to leave a meaningless comment that consists of little more than cliche rhetoric like, "ooooohhh, wonderful!" or "Stunning! I'm speachless!"? Think about it. What is actually gained by that other than a swollen cranium? ;-)

The only thing that really matters is that you continue to improve your skills, and strive to always get better. Who knows... some day, all the effort you put into your work might pay off in the real world, and you may come back here and find the same old people making one-liner comments on each other's images and have yourself a good chuckle. ;-)

Message edited on: 12/28/2004 08:36

I too felt the same a while ago..But now could care less, as long as i am happy with what i do, thats all that is important..Had a look at your gallery you have some great stuff there..you know some of my stuff has taken 3 or 4 days just to get 50+ views...hehehe just laugh about it..

I hardly ever use the gallery. You're getting lots of views tho. Don't sweat it. I just peaked at your gallery and wish I could be as tallented as that! It will happen, just give it time. I made one model so far an still working on others. 3D is the best art there is no matter how you make it. ;)

What's humorous for me is looking at my earlier work and my more recent and seeing if there has been any improvement. Now, that's depressing :)

Even just looking at the thumbs all of your images look very nice. I like the composition in "Scout." It has a nice sense of balance and perspective. Want criticism? I think it would be nice if the street had more texture instead a plain brown and it looks like she's standing on her toes. I assume shes wearing boots with high heels but you can't see them from that angle. Mind you, that's coming from someone who couldn't accomplish something half as good--which may be why some people simply put "excellent", "amazing" etc. You really shouldn't get too much of your ego invested in arbitrary measures like hits or comments. Ask yourself if you would still create images even if no one else could see them? If so then the joy of creation should be the primary source of fulfillment. It may be difficult to see other images that you can see (as objectively as you can see other's work) aren't as good get more of a response but why should you be different from some of the true greats whose work has been ignored or spurned by popular taste? Don't let the public define how you feel about your work because the public lies, whether they're praising you or panning you. Look into the mirror of your own soul. Anything else is at best, a distorted view of reality. One side note which may or may not be relevant. I do notice that a lot of your thumbnail images seem to be portraits. I'm not suggesting that you need to go for the provocative skinny shots, but perhaps some variation might lead to more interest?

Want a realistic evaluation of the gallery? Look at the image with the most views in the entire history of this place, and then ask yourself if it's worth it. There are other sites with smaller galleries but steady traffic. If comments and kudos are your wont, try them out. Cant hurt.

Mostly it's just a game of who you know and who you blow, to put it bluntly. Meaning people tend to gush comments on people they like, regardless of if the image is technically or artistically good, and they ignore everything else regardless of quality. Recently there was a poser pic put up by an artist that had some very nice comicish postwork. Before I looked at it, it had around 10 "OH EXCELLENT WORK" comment as soon as I saw it I noticed that the artist had made a mistake with the coat the character was wearing. On one side the hip plainly poked through and on the other a leg poked through. Applying some morphs the jacket came with would solve this. I put this info in my comment. Two days later the artist posted another pic which was more of a comic cover, same cool post work, same mistake, over 14 comments not one mentioning the flaw. You can find all kinds of examples of this kinda thing in the galleries. So my advice to you is this. If you think something you do is cool enough to put it up in one of the galleries the do it because you want to share. Don't do it for validation because if you do you won't get it and you'll just end up being frustrated all the time. I know I went through something similar after I first got poser. Now I do my pics for me and barely bother with the posting in the galleries anymore.

Every time I put a pic up, I end up depressed, confused the next day or two about.....Never fails.

post production depression-
believe me- I feel it every time too.
Message edited on: 12/28/2004 09:54

"Look at the image with the most views in the entire history of this place..." I think "N Raider" got a slew of additional hits back when someone (maybe the artist) posted about the irony of it's popularity. Also the date, 1999 was probably during the height of the LC frenzy, not sure. And what the heck, for what Poser 3?, it was an excellent premonition of the Naked Vicky we all know and love - we are not worthy. OTOH, if you look at the highest rated, you have a religious picture (labled Bryce but using Poser figures) followed by a lot of science fiction and a little of the kind of nudity called artistic. So there seems to be a difference between what people look at and what gets the most kudos in the end.

Don't expect many views in the galleries, the pictures are burried very quickly. You post some image and some hours later is on the tenth page, one day later, who knows where it is. I can be happy if I get 400 views of a picture!

IMHO the gallery is a place to share your artwork. Not to garner praise.. if I get some, great! if not, no biggie. I couldn't even tell you how many views I've gotten on any picture, because I don't check them.. heck, I never even looked into HOW to even check them.. they are that unimportant to me. If people compliment my stuff, then great, and thanks, but I don't look for compliments and praise, or expect any...

"IMHO the gallery is a place to share your artwork. Not to garner praise.. if I get some, great! if not, no biggie." Ditto.

Hi Robo2010,

To answer your question: You bother because you enjoy creating something which is unique to your vision, using tools that are great fun and challenging to use. I also hope you continue to do so.
Your work is, IMO, really good or excellent in many instances (obviously this comment is prejudiced by my likes and dislikes about the subject matter of your renders) and technically very good in most of the renders.
You seem to be getting (I guess on average) about 6 comments and rankings and upwards of 300 views per render. Given how many posts there are per day, I would think this would be quite usual and nothing to be disheartened about.
There also seems to be a hardcore of gallery viewers who regularly comment on pictures in the first 48 hours or so and then the picture is generally lost in the archives.
I must admit that I am very bad at commenting on the work of others because I still think I am a beginner at Poser and hence somehow unworthy to comment on the work of others. Also I would say that it takes quite a while to check through all the new Gallery posts and much more time to actually comment on the better work.
I would guess that many of the really highly viewed and commented images are for some of the more established/excellent artists who other members have added to their favourite artists list.
To give you one little bit of wisdom that works for me: Judge comments made about your work based on the skill and experience of the person making the comment. Sometimes having one good comment from a great artist is just the BEST experience. Numbers are irrelevent.

Regards,
Jovial.

moonbiter: I think you nailed it :> cara

Yeah..I like moonbiter's reply, although all responses here are great. I take everyones advice here in the heart. It is great..thanks everyone. I hope some here has taken some as well, not only me. So, when we or I feel down, come to this thread. :-)

I think that Poser is probably the most difficult to get regular hits unless it's recipriocal (sp?) because of the sheer volume of images... but, when I see an artist who I think needs a LOT of improvement with a ton of hits and kiss-ass comments about being the best or with lots of lil "V"s occurring -- it just makes me laugh and often I will make a point of making an honest comment on such an image. But don't take it to heart :> cara p.s. your username looks familar, I'm gonna go take a quick boo at your gallery thumbs...

Yes, when half the comments have VOTE written in them (when voting ought to be anonymous) you know that it is simply the tit-for-tat squad going around and buying each other's praise and pandering themselves. I'll see something where the title is the name of the product (roo eyes) and it is dedicated to the merchant and there'll be dozens of "OMG's!!! that's perfect!!!!!" because they hope to be given the product, too. This is especially irksome when there are obvious flaws such as a bloated moon not being used as a light source or limbs poking through body parts or tippytoes not touching the floor. We regularly see ads by merchants where they want a beta "tester", and the only requirement is to make 2-3 gallery pics as promo shots and push the product. Yes, that's a great way to get in the HOT 20, but do you really want to trade your artistic voice to become a shill? Just do what you want to do and share it. Finishing a work so that it is good enough to sign is enough. If people notice and comment perceptively and intelligently, then treat it as the cherry on the sundae... not needed, but your just desserts. Carolly

" and the only requirement is to make 2-3 gallery pics as promo shots and push the product. Yes, that's a great way to get in the HOT 20..." I have never reached the 20th position of the HOT 20, maybe am doing something wrong?

Being that there are 180,000 members (or such) here, getting 200 comments is really not much to brag about, when you think about it. That's a lot of people sitting in the privacy of their room deciding in a split second, what they want to look at for a few seconds. Looking to choose at 200 new uploads a day and some at 56K still (cannot go back to that). Familiar names come into play.. Catchy thumbs.. I can no longer keep up with my favorites much less the rest. There's a truth in every post here. But none (this especially) are a THE truth. You're wired into the biggest gallery an artist could have dreamed of 30 years ago. The price is some loss of personal treatment. And most who comment are cgi folks... My 1st upload landed 2 comments and sat at 100 or so hits until recently. Everybody starts at ladderstep 1...

"...there'll be dozens of "OMG's!!! that's perfect!!!!!..." And damn me if I didn't see that recently, on an image which contained a huge mistake. And by an artist who should know better. I could not ignore the image - my pal would have been offended if I had - nor could I give it unreserved praise (I'd have been lying at best if I had) so I had to do the decent thing and point out the flaw. Now, as for me and my pics, If I fuck up, tell me. If you see something which could be improved, tell me. And tell me how or why. I'm not here to have my ego stroked, I'm here to show my work in the hope someone "gets it" and to maybe gain some technical insight on the way. There's a damn fine artist here by the name of pookah69 who doesn't get anything like the hits and comments he deserves, simply because his stuff ain't viewer friendly. But, man, can he tell a story. And, to his eternal credit, the gent has always commented honestly on my images. Which is what we really need. It's the burden of proof on the critics, maybe, but it's a two way street. Like, don't be crying if someone says your picture bites the weasel's gonads. IMO, we need more trust around here. We see it in the forum, where we encourage newcomers and tell people "There's no such thing as a stupid question". Maybe we should be as charitable in the galleries. Let me explain... I think honest critique would be better received if the person on the receiving end was sure that the opinions expressed were genuine and well intentioned. For example, pookah69 can usually find something wrong with my images - and most of the time he's right. Does it make me want to hide away? Nope, it makes me want to improve. If an artist can be sure that they may not get an easy time of it, but they will get something helpful, maybe they will be more inclined to enable comments and listen to honest advice. That's where trust comes in. If people don't comment on your image, don't cry about it. If they give it a round of fucks, take your medicine and shut the hell up. If they like it, accept the praise and move on. Don't think you're a great artist. You aren't, and none of us are. That applies equally to Picasso, Dali, Ernst, Magritte and Boticelli, BTW. Nobody - but Nobody - is a great artist if they think they are. Just do what you do, post up your work and take your lumps like a man. Or camel, if you'll forgive the pun. :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=brainmuffin

You are being a huge crybaby. I have to say it because you asked. I'll explain: You posted a picture to the gallery yesterday, "Passion". It already has 309 viewings, 6 excellent rankings, and nine comments. My last image was posted a week ago, and it still has only 155 viewings. (it got more comments and rankings, but then, it's my first image that made it into the Carrara Hot 20, with 3 votes.... I didn't get an e-mail or anything telling me I got in, either, I just happened to notice it.) Compare your gallery to mine: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=brainmuffin Where every image on your first page except one has more than 300 viewings, where I have ONLY one that has more than 300 viewings. Most of your work has more than 6 rankings and comments, and quite a few have more than ten! I have two images with over six comments, and the one I had that was over ten, is now lost to a personal computer crash,and 'rosity lost the image years ago during a server switch or something.... (I'm not complaining, mind you, I'm happy with the response I get, I just wanted to give you some perspective. Although I'd be more than happy to get the kind of response you get....)

Has anyone ever calculated the "average" amounts of views, rankings and comments on images in the various galleries? cara

hauksdottir: you said, " Yes, when half the comments have VOTE written in them (when voting ought to be anonymous) you know that it is simply the tit-for-tat squad going around and buying each other's praise and pandering themselves." I agree, it makes me want to comment and put "110" which is something we used to pencil on resumes of applicants that we'd never call. Because of course, by adding a 110 becomes "NO" ;> cara

"Yes, when half the comments have VOTE written in them (when voting ought to be anonymous) you know that it is simply the tit-for-tat squad going around and buying each other's praise and pandering themselves."

Not everyone is "buying each others praise". I've had the "vote" comment on my images and I don't play the hot 20 game.

Hope you aren't knee-jerk judging the wrong people there.

I'd never seen Robo's work until this thread. Why? For the same reason as probably many others who are part of this imaginary clique that there is there to eat up all votes and comments, and leave nothing behind for others. The truth is that his thumbnails simply didn't catch my eye. To each artist, their work is the most important thing and something to be recognized. That's quite understandable and part of human nature. What many fail to realize and I will admit I did for a long time, is that your art is only one of 500 pictures per day. It's like the piano player at the theme park we went to once in awhile. We couldn't quite understand why when we asked him if he remembered us, he looked at us and shook his head. We recognized him. The nerve. He must be in that darn piano playing clique that doesn't see us as people! Hmmph. The truth is that he sees 30,000 people a day. We see just him. He can't possibly be expected to recognize all 30,000. That is kind of like Rosity. There is 500 images a day. One can't possibly recognize all 500 artists. So people tend to stick to those they do recognize and enjoy or have forged some relation with. That is what a community does. I don't know anyone who consciencely goes out of their way to ignore anyone because they aren't part of the group. In fact, if took the time to get to know the people who you shoot such venom at, you'd find that they are just friendly folk who like everyone, likes to look and comment on what they enjoy. There is a good chance that they may not even have seen your work out of the hundreds.

There is an entire audience that Rosity has that never posts comments, but likes to look at the art. Since I've become ill, I've fallen more into that category as of late. Nudity is a favorite among that group, and so it's not unusual for such an image to get 300 views without as many comments.

Rosity brings art back to one of it's key components in my opinion, and that is fun. It's not the hawk swooping down on the artwork to rip it to shreds and should it be? There is enough sites out there that will be glad to do that. It's also a place where art comes more from the heart than probably any place I'd ever seen, not only what is commercially acceptable. I post on pieces I like, but I am a believer that there is more to art than just technical skill and perfection. I don't look for flaws. So my excellents or whatever are based more on what I got from the piece rather than the lack of shadows. What I don't do is expect that people should post a comment on mine because I did on theirs. I would hope it's because my work touched them in some way, not out of obligation. As many that comment, I think it's the same. They do it because they enjoy what they see, not because they are trying to get whatever. I've posted the V a few times, again to acknowledge my excitement about their work, not to convince them to vote for mine. Sometimes I mention I voted, sometimes not. Frankly, I'm a little sick of hearing about how the gallery is a side show or that the ones who post comments are evil creatures that should be stopped at all costs. Maybe it's just that people want to have a bit of fun. Rosity is a place to do that. So what is wrong with that?

Before someone looks at my gallery and says, "You get 50-60 comments, so you are one of them." I didn't always get that many. My first picture got 17 views. In my time here, I'll admit I've met a lot of people, and reached out where I could in different ways to the community. In doing so, people have come across my work and stayed to enjoy the view. I am deeply honored by that more than I can express. I take offense at the comment about the side show, but if I'm in the side show, so be it. I know a lot of great people who were side show people. :) But in the end, it's like moving to a new city, if you don't introduce yourself often, how is the piano man going to recognize you from the crowd.

ShadowWind

Feel like a 39 year old cry baby writing this. Robo: Im in my early 40's doing this stuff. LOL. You are an excellent artist. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Rendering takes two minutes, it's creating the charcter that takes hours to learn and make, that's the hard part. This is a very large community and lots and lots of artists come here for one reason or another to showcase their work. Like I said, do't sweat it. With a large community such this people don't always have the time to offer their comments on others artwork. ;)

Robo, I'm not sure what level of comments and views you're expecting but it seems to me you're above average on those figures. I agree about the thumbnails - they're not eyecatching enough to stand out. They're mostly close-ups of fairly expressionless girls or bodyparts, which doesn't give the casual browser much of a clue about what's inside. Might help to have more evocative titles, too. Thumbnail and title are the only things that will get someone to click on your images, until they learn to recognise your name.

Maybe it's just that people want to have a bit of fun. Rosity is a place to do that. So what is wrong with that? but what about those of us who ARE looking for composition, lighting, technical stuff? we get kind of left out with all this "fun" going on. imo, the "best" should inspire feelings, AND, be technically aas flawless as can be. i get disgusted when i see a figure plopped in the center of a large image with nothing to draw the eye anywhere but the middle, with bad joints and poke throughs that hits the 20 days in a row. to me, it makes the whole site look bad.

Kendra: I can't speak for anyone else, but your name is not one of the artist names that I associate with the "you vote for me, I'll vote for you" crowd... :> cara p.s. and not everyone who says "V" or some version of that on images is doing that, but, unfortunately, many are... cara

well, there are times when i get 20+ views and comments and times when i get 9 or so, dont fret it happens dont get beat up about it, do it because you feel like doing it, show it off, dont worry about comments and the ikes, i dont any more, i am on my second gallery, and this new one has shown me more then my first gallery ever had! forget what people say, its you, yourself how you feel about it, dont fret and get depressed (leave that to me, im a clinical depressive, lol) just do what you want and stuff everyone else!

Poppi,
Composition, lighting, modeling, whatever are not going to be learned by a gallery comment. That has never been the case. There are some things that can, like Vicky needs a shadow or is poking through, but most things that relate to art are taught over a period of time with more heavy discussion than 250 characters (or whatever it is). That is why most other websites that do such critique do so with a gallery that has a forum installed into it. This way there can be a two way dialog where the artist can ask questions and get answers to why. And can usually trust those answers come from a professional artist. On Rosity, in some cases, it's like the blind leading the blind. Is the artist giving the advice doing it the right way themselves, or is it just something that they would do a different way? I ruined a picture that I had done listening to such advice.

I know there are many that would love to have judging panels deciding whether images would even be qualified to be put up, but that would go against what IMO has made Rosity the popular site that it is. It is a place where all people with whatever goal they have for their art come to roost. I can never understand why people get so upset about something, rather than moving on to what they would like better. There are sites that fit every idea about art.

By the way if anyone wants to learn more about composition and technique, a site called WetCanvas.com has lots of articles on the subject that are extremely helpful. WetCanvas is not a digital 3D site, though they do have a small digital section. They do traditional art, but such techniques really transfer well to 3D...

It's only going to be from study or a two way dialog that artists will get real benefit out of learning what an artist has to teach. Not a short line as a comment.

ShadowWind

Poppi,
Composition, lighting, modeling, whatever are not going to be learned by a gallery comment. That has never been the case. There are some things that can, like Vicky needs a shadow or is poking through, but most things that relate to art are taught over a period of time with more heavy discussion than 250 characters (or whatever it is). That is why most other websites that do such critique do so with a gallery that has a forum installed into it. This way there can be a two way dialog where the artist can ask questions and get answers to why. And can usually trust those answers come from a professional artist. On Rosity, in some cases, it's like the blind leading the blind. Is the artist giving the advice doing it the right way themselves, or is it just something that they would do a different way? I ruined a picture that I had done listening to such advice.

I know there are many that would love to have judging panels deciding whether images would even be qualified to be put up, but that would go against what IMO has made Rosity the popular site that it is. It is a place where all people with whatever goal they have for their art come to roost. I can never understand why people get so upset about something, rather than moving on to what they would like better. There are sites that fit every idea about art.

By the way if anyone wants to learn more about composition and technique, a site called WetCanvas.com has lots of articles on the subject that are extremely helpful. WetCanvas is not a digital 3D site, though they do have a small digital section. They do traditional art, but such techniques really transfer well to 3D...

It's only going to be from study or a two way dialog that artists will get real benefit out of learning what an artist has to teach. Not a short line as a comment.

ShadowWind

I'm not here for the votes or for the gallery. I'm here to read the forums and learn as much as possible. I dont do so bad here, I get less views than 90 percent of you guys. the top 20 isn't such a big deal is it? Why is it so important? I have two pics up in my gallery and seem to do all right view wise. Meh. the art is colorful and catches my eyes then I'll comment on it. Maybe if people made more colorful images & artwork youll get more views? You need to make your art different from the rest of the crowd. If all the pics are the same you're gonna go stale very fast. I don't go for perfect art. For me, I like different things, props, items etc when I create a character. (JMHO) ;)

Message edited on: 12/30/2004 07:11

i agree that certain techniques are learned over time. and some have a better innate sense of what just works right than others. yet, i feel that it is a shame for a piece to get 60 "oh wow" comments, and nairy a one letting them know that their shadows are all wrong, their joints need fixing, or, they might need to turn down their diffusion. they learn nothing from that. at least if someone did comment in a way that was less than glowing, they might try and "go figger" how to fix it and do better the next time. and, since some folks do know how to do the technical aspects of art, shouldn't there be a type of 20 for that? the 20 is supposed to be the best of the site, here. yet, it pretty much is simply a popularity contest. (no sour grapes, either....i have made the 20 on more than one occasion, and in more than one gallery. i'd just like to see it get much better.)

So we're assuming that the 60 "oh wow" commenter's are deliberately leaving out mention of these flaws and just saying it's wonderful because??? Or is it possible that the 60 are perhaps more "casual" viewers who like the image and don't necessarily see some of the imperfections that to a more "practiced" eye may seem so obvious? I think the latter is probably more likely than the former which really would be some kind of grotesque joke.

Poppi,
What gives you the idea it's supposed to be the best of best? Hot means popular. Otherwise it would be called The Best 20. It is what people who visit the site like. You may be disgusted by seeing flaws, but most people (even trained eyes) don't always care to notice or nitpick an image. They simply like what they like. I think though in the end, for the most part, the creme does rise to the top at least in the hot20's I've seen.

Do you know for a fact that there is not IM's being sent about flaws? I see a lot of pictures with reviews that were redone because of comments. If I see a flaw that I think is worth noting, I do so in an IM. Sometimes my idea of a flaw is a misunderstanding (a case of backseat artistry), so to me it's more fair to the artist to do it by IM. It's also an opportunity to start the 2 way dialog I mentioned earlier. I remember one artist who was so frustrated because people kept saying, "Work on your lighting," but not one told him how to do that.

ShadowWind

ShadowWind, It used to be promoted as the best. After several years of pointing out the obvious problems with the system, the description was changed to say that it was just for fun and popularity, and not to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, there are people who do take it bloody seriously. Renderosity has lost talented artists over that stupid feature and promoted many who buy and threaten and whine and manipulate their way to prominence. It is merely a mechanical system where friendship is recognized and has absolutely NO connection with merit. There is a spot of overlap where good works do get in, but it is more happenstance than anything else. Carolly

.

yes, the 20 used to be the best of the best. as for it now being the renders that people like the most....well, i see the same folks commenting time and again on one another's work....often adding the "V" after their comments. hardly a true cross section of gallery viewers, imo. basically, the 20 has been hijacked, and most of us don't have the numbers of a yahoo or aol list group to hijack it back. those of us who spend more time actually trying to learn to do things, and to artistically grow, aside from earning a living don't really have the time or inclination to curry favor with groups of any sort.

Honestly, there would be no pleasing you unless Rosity ripped out the entire statistics system. If the Hot 20 were gone, it would be who has the most comments, or who doesn't take critique, or who doesn't jump through the hoops that you feel they should in order to be worthy. Otherwise you are fighting human nature, who's a formidable opponent. If there is one thing I've learned here and in hundreds of art shows I've been to, is that no one gives a darn whether you spent 40 minutes or 40 hours if they like an image. How else does one explain a KFC menu dipped in lead winning $25000 or the elephant who sells his paintings for $5000. Art is a product of perception and in that perception is not only the art, but the artist. That's true in any system that is subjective. It may not be fair, but it is what it is. And the sooner one accepts that reality, then the sooner one will be more at peace with themselves and their work. I used to think of these things, and get all upset, but then I realized it is human nature to like what one likes and I can either spend my life popping prozac, stop doing art, or do the art I enjoy doing and hope that people like it. If they didn't, I would just find something else to do. Life, as I've discovered recently, is far too short to worry about all of this stuff...but if you want to, go ahead...

but then I realized it is human nature to like what one likes and I can either spend my life popping prozac, stop doing art, or do the art I enjoy doing and hope that people like it. If they didn't, I would just find something else to do. this is probably the crux of where we differ. i do my art for ME. i have a hard drive full of stuff that i've never even bothered to post, here. once in a while i scream at myself "omg, it's been 8 months since you uploaded to r'osity" and, i post something with all good intentions of going through my renders and filling up my gallery. then, dagnabbit, i get hung up on whatever lil critter or scene i'm excited about and my good intentions fly out the window. if people didn't like MY art...oh well NOTHING EVER WOULD MAKE ME STOP DOING IT. don't laugh, but i worry about going blind...that COULD make me stop, but most likely just would change the medium. i do my art for me first. but, still, the 20 could use some changes. it would help improve the standing of this site with the rest of the 3d community. it also might give the poser community at large just a bit more credibility. but, hey now.....i think i have my own credibility, so it really makes no difference at all in the reality of my own life. i just need to break that old habit of checking out the 20 first for the "best of the best". old habits die hard. maybe next year, huh?