Venting now about the cock-arsed way things happen, so please excuse me.

I've been to the US several times over the past few years and we checked with my (now) wife's insurance company and I was insured to drive her car.

Now that I live here we assumed it was the same. If not more insured.

My step-son had a car accident the other night (he's fine, but the car isn't) which made us look into all the insurance just to be sure.

Am I insured? NO! As soon as we got married and I moved in with her, I'm no longer insured to drive. So I've been happily driving around without insurance for 6 months.

It seems can't get insurance, since I don't have a drivers licence. I know that I could rent a car and be insured since i have a valid UK licence, but I've checked and it's $9 a day just for the insurance.

So the last few days I've been cramming the drivers-ed manual and this morning I went to the BMV and spoke to a nice young lady. But turns out I couldn't apply for a drivers licence until I got my social security card. And now I can't apply for the licence since my visa has expired and I'm technically in limbo. (There was like two days when I had my SSN and a valid visa)

Which means I can't get a drivers licence (or insured) until I get my green card, which ALSO means I can't get a job, since I can't drive to it and nothing is in walking distance. I'm scouring the visa forums for a way around it, but doesn't look good.

So all in all, I'm a little bummed. The only good thing is I get to play with Bryce 24/7 for at least another month. But the savings that have meant I could take nearly two years off work are rapidly vanishing.

Thank you for listening. I now return you to your normal programme.

That seems like a ludicrous loophole Phil, are there no specialist insurance companies who will insure foreign nationals (I have a couple of friends in the UK over from Oz who had to search around in the UK due to a similar problem). Or you could try a uk insurance company to insure you over there for the moment. Must admit I would be so upset if I couldn't work for a couple of months!!!! :)

I don't understand, are you in the UK or in the USA? Going by the diction of your writing I'm assuming your a Brit. And you're complaining about the way things work in the US. But you mention the BMV (British Motor Vehicles?). Because in the States its the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles). Any which way, it sucks. Feel free to tell us your tales of woe. Always here to lend an ear. BTW: here in Quebec, SAAQ (Socid'Assurances des Automobiles du Quec) statistics say 30% of Quebec drivers drive without so much as a licence, let alone insurance.

I'll check, but I know my last UK insurance company wouldn't (not being a UK resident anymore) Maybe one of the bigger guys would. Not working for 6 months sounds great, but it's losing it's appeal now.

I am a Brit living in Indiana, USA, which seems to be a law unto itself and calls the DMV the Bureau of Motor Vehicles. Don't know why.

Yeah after 6 months those funds start getting rapidly depleted :(

What about joining the AA in the UK and getting the kind of holiday insurance you'd get for driving abroad? Uh oh, just remembered there's probl'y a Catch 22 - you can't leave the US at the moment, can you? What do UK drivers do who're going to drive hired cars?

6 months w/o working I'd be tearing my hair out. And now stuck with no ride in Indiana! Man, I hope it doesn't get any worse. Your situation is starting to play out like a Mr. Bean script. :-(

probably not that helpful, but have you checked with the local British Consulate? not sure how close the nearest one is, but I'm sure they deal with this kinda thing all the time, and that's what they're there for..should be a web site, I would imagine..

And naturally, no kind of public transport, right? Bummer. A big one, too.

Oh, I'm on first name terms with the consulate. :-) They're probably sick at the number of questions I've asked. I'm also on a few forums for ex-pats and visa users (but they're not as friendly or supportive as you lot.)

Indianapolis has no underground, the trains aren't local, there are few taxis and the bus service is CRAP. I live in a small town and the nearest bus stop is about 5 miles away. There is a train station with a direct link to Indy, but only runs for two weeks in the summer!!

Hang on...with a SS number you should be able to get a license visa or no. I would also think that with an American wife most of that visa bit should be out the window anyway. I'd try the DMV again and just apply for a license telling them nothing. Put down you SS number and go as though you're from here. If all that is a mess then you might find someone with their own business who could act as a visa sponsor. I know green crad sponsorship costs a bit but I don't think visa sponsorship does really...could be off base there though.

Hmm..I've heard that the locals refer to the city as 'Indian-noplace'..but ya gotta smile when you say that..good luck..

Claymor - You'ld think so wouldn't you. I think you're right, if I was a US citizen. Which I won't be for 3.5 years. They (BMV) have a list of valid primary documents for non-US citizens. One thing they like is the I-94 which is the white card that you get put in your passport when you come and visit the US. Normally lasts only 3 months (as does mine), but since I've applied for permanent status they (immigration) don't hassle you. BUT as far as the BMV are concerned, my I-94 is no longer valid and my visa which purely to let me in to get married is no longer valid since I'm married now and only lasted 3 months anyway. AND to make matters worse. I've just found out that I have to apply first for a learners permit, and then can't apply for a full drivers licence for 60 days after that! So I can drive, but only with a holder of a full licence in the car with me. I'm going back to bed now. Wake me in a month.

that's rough dude, best of luck with that. those forum-ists might help out in the end :) drac

Oh Drac, mate, I feel like I'm moaning over nothing when I remember the crap you're going through.

I'm not being funny.....and I know it wouldn't be suitable at this time of the year.....but a guy I know who lost his license for drunk driving in the UK found that he could use an electric bicycle without any kind of license. Glamorous it wasn't, but it beat walking.

I always thought when you married a U.S. citizen,......you automatically became a citizen yourself ? I know that here in Virginia you don't need a drivers permit to ride a scooter or moped,..have you thought of taking that route. Not a great idea during the winter though. You could always move to Winchester, here in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley,........everything is within 10 minutes walking distance.

Phil I feel for you, really, but its DMV in the US Department of Motor Vehicles, lol.
Seems there are so many things that you don't get told when you switch over countries. If they would just mention these things up front you'd be able to take care of things in a timely manner. Also, thank goodness the DMV has gotten better, I remember about 20 yrs ago I actually felt like bringing a shotgun in with me, I had such a fustrating time doing normal everyday transactions with them. Now when I go I just get normally aggravated (ie not postal).
Keep at it and soon it will all just be a bad memory.
Also, very glad to hear that your stepson is alright.
Keep on Brycing! PS Mopeds, scooters, bikes etc are not acceptable transportation in the winters here in the north, lol.

Message edited on: 01/07/2005 11:24

Ha! Pog. Good thinking. Anyone remember Sinclair C-5? I wonder if I can get one on ebay.

phil, i'm hardly going through anything... i mean i'm still waiting for a job, but i can always go back to korea and teach english for a year or two as long as my dad is there. screw the romanian gov't if they don't want me. i'd find something in the private sector eventually. i don't have problems, just things to solve. you on the other hand... i just ate, came back and looked at the thread again... that's a pretty crappy situation. i'd say forget the insurance, do your thing. there has to be a loophole somewhere, like going and taking the test without saying you have the british one. drac

Attached Link: The BMV.

Drac, Since the Drivers licence is considered the main form of ID, they do a lot of checking. So I have to prove who I am, which I can only really do with my passport. As for forgetting the insurance.... This goes no further than you guys. My step-son's insurance lapsed by a few days. His car is going to cost 7200, which he will have to pay, he's only had it three months and has to pay off the loan on it. So, I'm taking this as a major sign. A sign to never have my own kids.

Hmmm. When I moved from Toronto to Florida a couple of years back, all I had to do to get a US driver's licence was turn in my Canadian one. That's it. No tests, no questions, just paid the 20 bucks or whatever paltry sum they demanded. Same procedure when I came back to Canada. I hope things work out for you Phil. :)

jaymonjay - I think Canada has slightly different rules. looking at the paperwork I got from them: "Candaidan passports are not required to have a Visa when entering the US and are exempt from [requiring INS documentation]" I probably should have moved to Canada first and then come down to the US>

A solution to your probs - move to Canada! (I'm thinking you don't want to move back to the UK here!) Seriously - wasn't there something called an INTERNATIONAL Driver's License?

Message edited on: 01/07/2005 11:51

Yeah, cost about 4 quid and you get them from the AA or RAC. It was a permit that worked along side my UK drivers licence. It means you can drive on a UK licence. I had one when I was last out here. Since I could drive the car on my wife's insurance that time there was no issue. But now I'm a resident of the US, it doesn't help me get insured. I'm gonna get Gale to call her insurance company again and see if there's any way, no matter what the premium's are, to get insured.

I apologise for being a grouch. Thanks for putting up with it. I have to say (it's been said before) there are very few forums that would put up with, let alone, be so supportive to someone who is so far off topic it's not even the same planet. You guys rock.

Hey man, we're all in this together. As drac would say, love you long time! :)

When we went from the US into mexico we could get Sanborn's insurance at the border. Really reasonable too. Surely you could get some kind of tourist insurance the other direction? Something that would be cheaper than the markup from the rental car company.

God damn! Land of the free................my arse!

Oh, it is the land of the free, but you have to pay for it.

Attached Link: http://www.house.gov/burton/contact.htm

oh god, phil, lol

Sorry Phil, I got to thinking after I posted that maybe not all of the US goes by the same names for their agencies. Silly me, hey what do you guys call the post office in Indiana hahaha, sorry. Keep you pecker up! :-D

Drawbridgep... First, you are right. The US shares license info with some countries, and the UK isn't one of 'em. We share with Germany, though. shrugs (BTW, my wife is also from England.) Here in (as Sackrat says) beautiful Winchester, VA, there was a way to get a license without having a SSN. You may be able to get a letter from the local Social Security office stating that you do not currently have a SSN. The BMV may accept that and let you start the process to get a valid US license. I would check into that. Also check into getting a TIN (Tax ID Number). It's kind of like a SSN that allows you to work in the US, without having a green card. Check to see if the BMV will accept that. Also, don't really worry about your I-94 running out on you. As soon as you married an American citizen... it was forgiven. My wife overstayed her visa by about 3 years and we had no problem getting her green card. If you have any questions, let me know. My wife and I have been through the whole process and we would be happy to help. HTH, Mike

Ang - Nothing wrong with my pecker. (Does that joke work in America, or just the UK?) miden - You're a handy man to know. I might have a LOT of questions for you. When did your wife go through all this process? I didn't think the I-94 was an issue. it kinda became invalid as soon as I got married anyway. Anyway, things are looking up. After an insane amount of googling and reading of forms and reports and stuff, I finally read the book the BMV gave me. (doh) It says "need ONE of the following" Valid I-94 I-766 (Work Authorization Card) etc. So, when the (now I'm calling her stupid) girl said that I can't get a licence since my I-94 is expired. She should have then said "Do you have an I-766?" Stupid really, I shouldn't have assumed that the people at the BMV know what they are doing. I've checked and re-checked and I do have everything needed. Going back tomorrow. I'll let you know. Feeling happier about things now.

AND thinking about it, how crazy is it to give someone work authorization, but not let them be able to get to work?

Well Phil I don't know if it works in the US (the joke). I thought it meant the same in the UK as our 'keep your chin up' phrase. But here it means something quite different ;-D take it whichever way pleases you LOL. And if I'm not mistaken, you may not be working but I bet you've been 'on the job' quite a bit, eh? LOL. Hope that things work out for you and yeah, never assume we civil service workers know what we're doing, lol.

mmmm. Keep your chin up. Yeah. Although ask a Brit to point at his pecker, then you'll get a different response. You're a librarian aren't you? Much smarter by definition.

The BMV says you can use any combination of these. Typically they like at least one photo ID so even if the passport no longer has the I-94 it has your picture if you have the I-551 you should be good to go. While your UK license is not valid as your primary identification it is acceptable as your secondary ID so is your marrage license. The Biggie is you must have a learner's permit 60 days before applying for the license. You may get insurance but you can't drive without a licensed driver in the car with you who knows you are on a learner's permit. Acceptable INS Documentation Valid foreign passport with a Visa that includes a valid I-94 in the passport indicating the duration of stay in the U.S. (Canadian passports are not required to have a Visa when entering the U.S. and are exempt from this requirement.) Employment Authorization Card I-688B Employment Authorization Card I-766 I-94 Stamped with "Section 207" Refugee Status I-94 Stamped with "Section 208" Asylum Status Permanent Resident Card I-551 Temporary I-551 stamp Temporary Resident Card I-688 Re-Entry Permit I-327 Refugee Travel Document I-571 Other INS documentation subject to BMV Driver Services approval NOTE: Out of Country Licenses are no longer accepted as identification or proof of driving experience. An applicant submitting VALID INS documentation who does not already have a valid License from another U.S. State or U.S. Territory must start with an Indiana Learner Permit. The applicant must hold the permit for a period of at least sixty (60) days before being eligible to apply for an Indiana Driver License. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SECONDARY DOCUMENTATION (1 required) In addition, any document from the list of Primary documentation may be used as a Secondary document. Bank Statement Certified Academic Transcript Confirmation of Registration Letter from an Educational Institution Court documentation with stamp or seal in applicant's name Foreign Consulate-Issued ID Card Government-Issued License or ID Card Hoosier RX Plan Card w/ imprinted name Indiana County Pre-sentence Investigation Report with clerk stamp or seal Indiana Gun Permit (Valid) Indiana Probation Photo ID Card Indiana Professional/Occupational license (Valid) Indiana BMV Title Application w/BMV Valid Stamp Indiana BMV Title or Registration (Valid) Insurance Card Letter from Probation Officer or county casewprler on letterhead stationary, certified with court or county stamp or seal with the applicant's name, and signature of the probation officer Major Credit or Bank Card (MC, VISA, AE, and Discover ONLY) (Valid) Original Out-of-State Driver Record Out-of-State Driver License, Identification Card or Permit with photograph Pay Check Stub - Computer generated Prison Release Documentation/Photo ID School Report Card (dated within 12 mos.) School Photo ID Card Selective Service Acknowledgement Card-SSS Form 3A U.S. Divorce Decree certified by court of law with stamp or seal U.S. Application of Marriage/Record of Marriage (Certified copy.) Must contain the stamped seal and be signed by the Clerk. U.S. District Court Pre-sentence Investigation Report with clerk stamp or seal U.S. Military Discharge or DD214 Separation papers U.S. Veterans Universal Access ID card with photo W-2 Form (Federal or State) or 1099 Federal tax form

First this: "NOTE: Out of Country Licenses are no longer accepted as identification or proof of driving experience." Then this: "...Indiana Learner Permit. The applicant must hold the permit for a period of at least sixty (60) days before being eligible to apply for an Indiana Driver License." Geez. 60-days "learner's permit", when quite a lot of countries in Europe are extending or have extended their Learner's Permit to two years or more. And they are not accepting such licences. Back to the regular programming. electroglyph, note they say "out-of-state" licence for the secondary ID, not "out-of-country" or "foreign", as they do in other places. OTOH, a major credit or bank card... or a notarized (or whatever) duplicate of the application form for the green card could be okay.

The 60 days is a bummer. I was hoping I could take the written test, get the learners permit and then take a road test and get the full licence. I spoke to a chap at the BMV a few weeks back and he said that the road test for someone who has another countries licence should only take a few minutes. But he works for the BMV, so I'm not trusting that.

and I thought I had prombles lol[cannot spell sorry]

@ Erlik, You think that's bad? Here in VA, my wife only had to have a permit for 30 days. ;-) @ DBP, Yeah, we can give you all kinds of tips for surviving the process. Send me an IM or e-mail if there is anything you need. If I don't know the answer, my wife most certainly will. Good luck tomorrow!! Mike

LOL...I am from Indiana, also...(woohoo). One sure-fire way to get around in an automobile w/o havin' a drivers license is very easily done, at least in rural Indiana. Step number one: Roll around on the ground out in the pasture and purposely hit every fresh cow-pie you can find, coating your dungarees with "Indiana Fresh Air". Step number two: Paint your car, preferrably a model year earlier than 1975, and American made...paint it John Deere green and attach a front loader to the front bumper. For added effect, may want to also add a bush-hog to the rear. Step number three: Learn the local lingo, ie; heck, darn, shucks, shitfire, halbedanged, etc... If you should get pulled over, your excuse list should include the classic but very effective response " Well halbedanged! I aint never needed a license back on the Dang farm! Shucks! I was drivin before I could read a shitfire word! Heck, who needs a darn license when ya drive a darn John Deere?"

I don't know if this helps (actually, there are at least 50 DMV's. BMV's, BVD's..whatever..;)..but we have a serious drunk-driving law in NC (license pulled and jail time for a 1st offence)..a few years back people went to Ohio to get licenses..if you're not too far from the state line..but that's your call..

Went through something very similar with my SS card, I went to get a new one, and found they had me listed with my old married name, which I haven't figured out how yet, and I had to PROVE I was who I said I was, by connecting, my maiden name, to the first marriage license, to the divorce decree, to my maiden name again, to my present married name. Cost me bucks for all the documents and bureaucratic red tape, and time delays, since all this happened in Maryland and I now live in Colorado, ahhh the government you gotta love 'em, getting paid to give the public grief...=)

I thought all you Americans had a God-Given Right to drive anything, anytime, anywhere and anyhow and run over anyone who got in your way, especially if they broke into your house??????? (or was that something to do with firearms....?)

Went there again this morning. Saw the same girl and showed her my work authorisation and she said that was fine!! Loads of statements flashed through my head, but I bit my tongue. Anyway. I took the written test and passed. Still haven't got my permit, since the BMV has to write to the INS to prove that I am a legal immigrant and THEN I'll get a permit that lets me take the drive test in 60 days.