I am A LW and C4D user for work and I am intrigued by Blender. Does anyone have some experience with LW or C4D and can compare things like features and workflow. I mostly do special effects/titles and some char animation. Thanks for any feedback

Well, I think I can give you some taste of the problems... I started learning 3D some time ago or so with both Blender and C4D. Now Im learning polygon modeling, alpha channels and volumetric light in C4D while I just solved some basic problems with saving the files in Blender... :P It seems the main problem with Blenderis that its extremely "idiomatic", it has its own logic that is not necessarily my one:) Also, Blender produces a set of fabulous problems on my computer, where both LW and C4D worked well. I think the first thing you must be prepared for when trying Blender will be the enormous work at the very beginning. I tried and I decided to focus on C4D, its far far more intuitive although not perfect. It seems also that Blender is less powerful-for example, it just got a raytracer...

... anyway, it`s extremely nice that sb started a Blender forum here:)

Silgrin, Thanks for the feedback

blender might not be perfect but look at the development history and you see how fast it grows , i wonder if c4d can keep up with this. I dont think its " it`s extremely "idiomatic", " in 2 weeks i gasped the working method if you buy a manual i think it will be faster i doubt silgrin did that and he did use the c4d so is it a fair comperison? i leave that up to u. I am still learning all the tricks blender can do and find it hard to believe such a powerfull program is free.

Well, I learned both apps from texts downloaded from the Net, incl. program manuals. There is no book in PL for C4D and only one book about game making in Blender-I bought it and found of little use. Anyway, the interface is really strange for me and I find C4D much more easy. Another problem is that Blender still produces some problems on my machine, incl. poor renders and extremely slow interface (this is a problem with my graphics card, I was adviced to solve it by decreasing the screen color depth, but what is the use of a graphics app that requires low color depth?!). I tried 2.36 rc of Blender that has some graphics card bug fixes, but still I have to use 256. I think C4D just fits me better... I always liked cinema more than the kitchen:P

just to throw in my opnion but dont you think it wouid be more easer to say app x is better than app d when it comes down to it i always feel it's more about what works for you blender works great for ysvry and c4d workd great for Silgrin and thats kool.But when it comes down to it all were doing is adding an extra tool we have to work with maybe point a,b and c work great in c4d and point e,f and g work great in blender so instead of knocking this or knocking you combine the good points of both thats kinda like i see a lott of people say photo shop is soo much better paint shop pro i own paint shop pro and down loaded a demo of photoshop some things photo shop did better and some things paint shop pro did better and was easer to do so you could combine the two and have a really great tool to use.ok i know im problie juss rambling on but i just got home from work and just wanted to say this bottom line is (if you can run it on you're machine with out troubles that is) blender just adds to the tools you have to work with some good some bad but you can never have enouf tools to work with oh and by the way i did down load a demo of c4d 9 and tryed it out ok i guess im done ramblimng on so if you've read all this up to this point id have to give you an A + for the day lol draven

Attached Link: http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=documentation&file=index

It's back and forth for me and Blender. It has been my modeling app from the beginning and I expect it will remain so. There's never been anything I wanted to do in it with modeling that I couldn't easily do. As a renderer, I've tried a few different ones, and like the ambient occlusion function in the current internal renderer. I have not had any success with the Yafray renderer. I am currently using POV-ray as my renderer. I find it superior to either Blender rendering engine for now. 3D applications are like women. You will use several in your life. :O)

3D applications are like women.<<< I go for the cheap ones like Blender. I can't afford to go out with a babe like Maya.

Intuitive does not always = good. And there are other rendering engines to choose from besides the default one. And you have to learn how to use any 3D app, they're all hard at first. Why don't learn about the interface first before you start complaining? The interface in Blender is hard to learn at first, but so is every other 3d app, but once you learn it, it provides very fast workflow due to the focus on hotkeys and other cool stuff. That is what I keep hearing all the time, fast workflow, and as I learn more about the program I believe it more and more everyday. Another of Blender's advantage is that it is programmed by the actual users, it's open source. What that translates to is fast growth, and the updates/additions that are added are good, and the bug fixes are found faster and updated faster then any commercial program could ever hope to. Each update continues to add amazing stuff as Blender3D matures. The next update(s) is supposedly going to improve the already good animation features of Blender, and also rendering engine improvements will be focused on as well, and I'm sure some other good stuff will make it in. Go to the following link to see what I mean by fast growth, bug fixes, and cool features that are always being added: http://blender3d.com/cms/Releaselogs.34.0.html And another thing, open source programs are nothing to laugh at. I have alot of open source programs that I use instead of commercial program because they are just as good and even superior. Internet Explorer/Outlook huh? MS Office what? Paintshop and Photoshop who? Those are just a few examples.

OK, but if you try to learn it w/o success and in the same time you manage to get several nice renders from another app, it means Blender IS difficult to learn and DOES make problems to me. Maxon Cinema isnt perfect but I learn it x times faster. This is why I barely look at Blender now although I like using some other open source apps incl. Ooffice, Linux [not now; Im short of the disc space due to 3D :], etc. Im still waiting for a Blender version that will satisfy me; anyway, its not the current one yet. Have a nice day and [modeling] night :]

Just because you learn X faster then Y, does not mean X is better or Y is difficult. It just means you're a slow learner :P

Doesn`t match with the beginning of your message Be a faster reader, please :P

Setting aside the fact that Blender is not the best renderer in the world, can you tell me if MODELLING there is easy? I've tried Rhino and it was easy, I've tried Bryce and it was cumbersome, I've tried Cinema and it was the most complicated thing that happened to me. Ever :) What is the experience with Blender? And can the models be exported to, say, Bryce?

Greetings

I always thought modeling was pretty easy in Blender. Not sure what files Bryce can take on import.

linda357, your question about modeling easiness is already answered in my first post in this thread. I don't know everything about the Blender renderer yet, I have not finished learning about the program, but I have seen some nice renders. Blender renderer might not be best renderer of earth shattering epic proportions, but it is good, and I have seen some pretty amazing Blender renders. And straight from the horses mouth, the rendering engine is supposedly going to be improved soon in near future update(s). As for exporting/importing, there's a bunch, I can't tell off the top of my head if it has Bryce, but if it doesn't maybe the new version that just recently came out has, because they added some export/imports. And if it doesn't it will most likely be added, because I have always seen them adding lots of different exports/imports when I have looked at the release log history. As for experiences, I'm still a total noob to 3D programs and I have found my first few experiences with Blender3D good, I didn't find anything that hard to grasp or something that was impractical, quite the opposite infact. Many many say that the modeling workflow in Blender3D is fast, and I have never seen anyone that knows what they're talking about when it comes to Blender3D, ever disagree with that, and I believe them, because so far for me my experience has been good. For a specific example, it didn't take much time for me to make my first two models, and then subsequently tweak them afterwards. More about that a little bit later in this post, keep reading. There are some practical features if you look around, for example the select only facing sides/vertice/edges, etc. I think that the hotkeys allow you to do things fast as well, especially when you need to do something precision wise, like when trying to transform or move something a specific number of coordinate.

And to everyone else: If there's a feature that is missing from Blender, or isn't strong enough for your needs, you must realize one thing, the program is still maturing, give it a chance. If you don't like it now, come back later and see what a new version is like, because new version update growth is, as I have noticed and already stated, pretty fast. It does have good features to it if you stop and look and learn about it, just as you would do the same with other programs. And it's not version 2.36 for no reason, it's a perfectly good and strong program. I have seen some pretty amazing jaw dropping models created with Blender3D, especially this one Superman model I saw, and also this jaw dropping amazing spider robot with turrets that this one dude is making, and he said it's his first model in Blender! I couldn't believe it when he said that. Go look at the forums that are linked on the official Blender3D website, and you'll find those two models and more amazing stuff.

And the message in my previous post is clear enough, to anyone who blames the program for being difficult because they can't grasp it - It is not. If you want to learn about the features that are within Blender and are looking for a specific feature, it should be in either the books, the free open-source manual, or the knowledgebase help FAQ on their website. And there is lots of rich feature information in the release logs on their website, which I already linked to. And get this, you can actually find the features you want by going in the menus or selecting one of the different viewport window types at the bottom of program, like the Buttons Window for example, and also the feature hotkey reference in the Help menu. Who'da thunk it? It's all there if you open your eyes. There's even popup help descritions if you hover over the buttons and tool bar in the Buttons Window and other places. What's stopping you from finding the feature you want, is the help texts in yiddish or something?

Besides a really simple model that I made in 3DS Max one time at a friends house, I have never really used a 3D program before in my life, and I managed to make two chess pieces with Blender3D the first two days I had the program, a pawn, and a more complicated rook piece. I have linked them in this forum. If I can do that, a newbie to 3D programs in general, what is stopping all the rest of you from doing the same, especially you guys who already have alot of 3D experience? Really, it's not that hard.

Message edited on: 01/04/2005 21:42

By the way, The modeling in C4D can be a bit complex, look for example at these multiple points on wall edges :)

Message edited on: 01/05/2005 03:30

PS. But dont think I gave up with B., Im just short of time :P

I've DL the Blender (and YafRay) and going to dive into the depths of it :) Accept my apologies about calling Blender not perfect for rendering, I didn't know what I'm talking about :)

I accept:) I never got a good render from B. yet-even sth like that above (this was from a 5-yr-old Cinema). But I really want to learn both B. and W. some time I will have more time...

If Blender were only stable on older 'puters not using the latest OS or certain graphics cards - I'd give it a shot. But since the menus don't work properly on my computers (random mouse behavior), it'll just have to wait. Other programs (Wings3D, Bryce, Paint Shop Pro, etc.) work just fine.

I have similar problems-and also exclusively with Blender. Programmers say its a problem for graphics card manufacturer :P I dont like such a behavior...

lida better first stick with the inbuild renderer as it only complicates matters using yafray.u can set raytrace for materials so rendering goes faster and quality is ok if you dont need caustics. did u also try the linux version paul?

I've been using 3d for quite awhile. A lot of the programs I've used have had pretty "gui" like Bryce, or Poser. I've also used Maya and Softimage. I've just recently started using Blender. But things I am very impressed with thus far are its powerful modeling tools and strong animation system. And the animation system is going to see some nice improvements! As to the interface. I've found that the interface is one of the most well thought out (recent versions of blender mind you) interfaces out there. Its vector based so you can zoom in and have lossless viewing, its fully configureable on the positioning of everything, you can have all the toolboxes on the right side of the screen, or on the bottom, you can split the bottom into three layers and have a full screen view of the scene. Or you can even split the view into 4 views. Of all the applications out there its one of the most flexible I've used, if not the most flexible. You can see the advancement of the interface overall here: http://wiki.blender.org/bin/view.pl/Blenderdev/235UIControlsDesign What is amazing about that is thats in the course of only about 2 years of work. And not only was the interface improved but the modeling tools, the renderer, particles, texturing, uv mapping, a few hundred bug fixes, etc etc really the amount of work the open source team does should put most commercial developers to shame. I agree with most others, while the interface is nice, its non-standard, so if you have used other applications it may not make sense to you at first. But I mostly have caught on, I mean its not that difficult to figure out how to render when the button is labled "render":) The default rendering quality sucks, I agree with that. But with some changes in settings and on objects it renders some very nice renderings. And the fact it is compatible with quite a few different rendering engines you have a lot of flexiblity. My vote is for using it, and if nothing else, add it to your toolbox. For free you can't argue:)

Nice to hear so enthusiastic voice :) But what improvements did you make to the renderer? I tried sth but I couldnt get rid of for example stripes of colours not passing one into another smoothly-I tried image quality, etc., but I still had renders looking like in low color res:( Render a cube, then zoom it strongly when saved (even if bitmap) and you will see whats wrong. Do you know some trick to overcome it or some decent tut? Cheers, Silgrin

You have 3.36? Any 2.34 they did a major overhaul of the blender renderer. mkae sure that you have OSA selected and that the objects you are rendering have OSA selected. Then set a setting in the renderer that is suitable to you. Brian

Oversampling in objects? OK, Ill try, I set osa only for the renderer thus far. I use 2.36, I dont have access to 3.x :)

PS. But how to set osa for an object?! Sorry, Im not yet good at Bs interface :(

Very funny with the above picture. Look, if you don't like the program, then you don't have to use it. We're trying to get more people into Blender, so that it can become more popular, so that it can have it's own gallery, we really don't need threads and posts like this right now, with ignorant folk making fun of the program and trying to make Blender look bad by saying so and so is superior, look what so and so can do. It is pointless to say so and so is better, because no one honestly gives a crap, because this is the Blender forum, not the so and so forum. How would you like it if I came into your C4D forum back when C4D was still new to the 3D scene, and you guys were trying to make it more popular so it could have it's own gallery, and I start acting all ignorant and saying to use so and so program instead because it's better? You wouldn't like it, would you?

Anyway, the OSA for objects, I didn't know you can do that. He's probably talking about the Full OSA button under Materials in the Shading panel window (F5) but I might be wrong.

Message edited on: 01/12/2005 04:57

Message edited on: 01/12/2005 04:59

Thanks Fury for your kind post :P Sb ignorant tried to learn if Blender is worth learning and ignorant people answered him. If everybody behaves like experts like you, it would be of no use to post such questions at all. Sending such texts wont help anybody. Have a nice day or two. PS 1. C4D forum isnt 'mine', I`m not as fanatic about C4D as you are about Blender. I just u-s-e it. PS 2. I just posted a thread about Blender gallery several days ago :P

as long as Truespace is out there, Blender makes more sense..;) I haven't even figured out all the tools in Wings yet, so it will take time. I do have to admit that my 2nd model in Blender wound up getting a request for commercial use (which was stymied by the Poser model in it, but that's another story). I'll get back to it in time..;)

Speaking of Truespace, that's another app that won't work on my ol' 'puter. So Blender isn't alone in that respect. At least I don't get 500 "One last time for this special offer!" emails from the Blender people. LOL! Also I don't think anything bad of Blender because it appears to give decent results, I'm just disappointed that it doesn't work on my computers.

how old are those computers of yours? dont you think its time to upgrade that z81 to 16k, paul? and start some decent computing, paul :P