Having consulted extensively with drac we present the next monthly challenge: Fantastic Flyers The challenge is to create a scene reminiscent of the film "Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines" The story takes place in 1910 and centers around an air race from London to Paris. Your scene therefore should include at least one vintage looking Fantastic Flyer. The movie is really just for location, era and technology reference, you don't have to try to do a specific scene from the film. Just remember this is an era before jet engines. :) Your flyer may be modeled in any app but must be an original, the more fantastic the better. As a nod to native Bryce your final render must include at least one use of the intersect boolean. And after much debate we'll NOT limit texturing to the DTE...you can use anything. Postwork is fine. Ladies and Gentlemen....Start Your Engines...or rubber bands...or squirrels...or pedals...or...

I subscribe. Great challenge idea, and Claymore was generous enough to allow me into the ruling and was gracious to accept some of my ideas (delivered with my usual smooth-talking finesse -i.e. NO NO NO NO NO!). Time to create my squirrell-powered Dick-dastardly-type evilplane! To Wings3D, MUTLEY!! drac

Intersect boolean, intersect boolean, now where did I put the bloody manual.

I need a visual guide, some reference links possibly? I'm not good at remembering yesterday and even less good at something I may not have seen in over 30 years, yeah make fun of me! Anyhow, this sounds like fun. :-D

http://www.3seabees.com/antoinpictures.htm http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/50airplanes.htm http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal107/gal107.html

Attached Link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059797/

basically think early planes, before ww1, wright brothers meets wacky races. kinda.

Attached Link: http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal107/gal107.html

Attached Link: http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/85333/85333_1107186374.jpg

Great theme. Shame I don't have the time to enter.....;-(

Hmmm ... I've still got my flying pig model!

Great I'm in. I will have to finish with my WW1 models first. I have an Albatross in the work. But I can go for that. I may have studied a bit too much though.

Does it have to be a plane, or can it be a form of Zepplin (no, not the rock group), you know a durigable, airboat, etc?

Would it be possible to allow WWI planes? I'd really like to do a Sopwith Camel.

i spent 3 hours searching for something i could use for this. looks like the only way i am going to be able to enter this challenge is if i model something myself. that is way out of my league so i'll sit on the fence and look at all the others that get posted.

Here is soem inspiration. http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=887659&Start=1&Artist=Dann%2DO&ByArtist=Yes I do plan on doing something new and my own design. I was looking for a Fokker Taube but the referances were inadequate. So off to do my own design.

Now we will see the Bryce aviation artists come out of the closet and publicly admit their affection for the wonderful invention known as the airplane. I hope this starts a trend and we see aviation renders long after the challenge is over.

To answer Zhann's question it does not have to be an airplane....as drac referenced earlier...chitty chitty bang bang could fly and thus would be fair game, hot air ballons etc...my wip is looking more like a zeppelin, kinda...anything that might be capable of flight is acceptable.

This sounds like fun, maybe I can tear myself away from my books for a while and do something about entering. 8)

i see the clique is working well again. Claymor i would like to point out two things here, firstly this is a bryce challenge and not a modellers challenge, quoting you here "Your flyer may be modeled in any app but must be an original, the more fantastic the better" now if that is the case then why is this a BRYCE challenge. In all facts if you are going to judge those that enter this challenge on the merits of the originality and modelling then don't you and drac think this should be a modellers challenge. Another thing you should also take into consideration when setting these challenges out. Remember there are members that can't do modelling or are new to bryce and would maybe like to enter these challenges. But never mind the newer members as long as the clique keeps going we don't care hey mate...well done to you and drac for showing that it does exist on this forum. CrazyDawg (Lurking in the shadows)

Gotta start somewhere, Oh yeah.....It's a Challenge!! WHOA. (God I love the part when TOTO pulls the curtain back)

Thanks Claymor....

@CD, challenge; something that by it's nature or character serves as a call to engage in a contest of skill...(as it pertains to Bryce)

Anyone here that is new at Bryce will learn by doing, if you don't try something you'll never learn how to do it, got to start somewhere......all of the forum will be more than willing to help newbies with this challenge, all anyone need do is ask the 'how to's' if they get stuck....

The manual and Real World Bryce are both very good resources for learning, there are numerous tutorials for Bryce here and on Daz, some that might be of help

Peter Sharpe

Brycetech

Bryce tutorials at DAZ

If anyone needs help just IM me...=)

Message edited on: 02/19/2005 23:34

Hmmm...Well CD in answer to your crticisms in order: 1. It is actually possible to model in Bryce so even if it were a "modeling" contest it still could be a Bryce contest. 2. No one said the results would be based on modeling. The admonition to go as fantastic as possible was merely to highlight the that the intent was not to try to create an accurate early plane but something more fanciful. As usual I would expect the votes to go toward the best render, at least that is how I vote in the challenges. 3. As to members who can't "do modeling" the only to learn is to do...that's why it is a challenge. I have learned a lot about bits of Bryce by being challenged in a monthly "challenge" to do something I wouldn't normally try. Besides if we didn't include models what would the challenge be? Who can place the tree on the best spot on the terrain object? 4. As to a "clique" I think you'd be hard pressed to create any grouping of individuals (aside from "contributors to this forum") that would include both drac and myself. I am sure the majority of the contributors here would also regret if anyone felt this forum was cliquish. If however you feel that you have been excluded then let me be the first to apologize...as one whom you have accussed of being cliquish...it was not intentional. Is this particular challenge tilted toward those who are strong modelers? Yes, and as a point of fact I don't put myself in that camp. Was the intent to eliminate anyone new or old? No, merely to create a "challenge" that would allow everyone to push their limits. Ok, I'll stop now.

Claymor thank you for your quick and honest reply. I say honest because you did state that this particular challenge is tilted toward the strong modellers. quote you "Is this particular challenge tilted toward those who are strong modelers? Yes"

Now like you stated it is actually possible to model in bryce, yes i agree, but what if you are someone that isn't all that good with bryce yet and you don't have any idea on how to model in it, does this challenge then single them out and make it hard for them to enter, yes it does.

anyway you carry on with your challenge which titles towards those who are strong in modelling.

CrazyDawg
(Lurking in the shadow)

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 02:57

I was just wondering you said it doesn't neccesarily need to be a scene from the movie, as long as the flying machine is pre jet engine... So I'm assuming that the scene doesn't really have to be that era? Can it be any type of scene as long as it includes that type of machine? Like sci fi, fantasy, etc. etc. Or do you want it more along the lines of that films era? Secondly in response to CrazyDawgs concerns, I am wondering since it doesn't matter what application the model is created in is it acceptable to use various parts of other models combined in bryce to make a new model? Example wings from a plane, wheels from a bicycle etc etc... That may help solve some concerns about the modeling. Sorry for all the questions I just like to know my limits before I get started ;-)

"...but what if you are someone that isn't all that good with bryce yet and you don't have any idea on how to model in it, does this challenge then single them out and make it hard for them to enter, yes it does...."

No, not necessarily so, modeling is just taking something down to it's most basic shapes and starting there, anyone who can put 3 spheres over water, can model in Bryce, don't let modeling your airship stop anyone from entering this challenge....just do the best you can and if needed, ask for help with your idea...

Yep, a Bryce Forum Challenge is not about winning anyway, it's about stretching your imagination, building your skills, focusing your abilities, meeting a deadline, thinking outside of your box, and all those other happy modern business cliches. :^) Mostly it's about FUN. If it ain't fun for ya, don't do it. When I was 6, if my 11 year-old brother beat me at a game I cried. In time I learned to have just as much fun losing as winning (although I still weep when I lose, LOL). The fun of a game is in the playing. Same with the Challenge. Think of it as a personal Challenge, not a competition. And if you do win, well, you can shout to the world. "I won the Late February/Early March Bryce Forum Challenge!" But that's about it. No TV or Mall openings, no requests for your autograph, no appearance on Leno. Just the recognition of your peers. But that's pretty cool. :^) John

Zhann please explain something to me will you. First off how can someone who just started using bryce not that long ago and can put 3 or more spheres over water model in it if they haven't got a clue how to model using bryce. I think placing a few spheres over water is a long way of from modelling in it. Secondly you stated "don't let modeling your airship stop anyone from entering this challenge", how can one enter it by placing a few spheres over water and adding some terrain when like Claymor stated and admits "Is this particular challenge tilted toward those who are strong modelers? Yes" So to any new users of bryce or to this forum that would look like he is stating that if you can't model then don't bother entering this challenge. To me this seems like a CGTalk challenge...only modellers may enter it. CrazyDawg (Still lurking in the shadows)

that's the whole point, I believe... the person who just started using bryce and can only do reflective spheres over water should at least be smart enough to know that they should not expect to win a challenge in a popular bryce forum... but they CAN be smart enough to learn from the other forum members as they post WIP's, critiques, etc... and to try new things, push their limits and, in short, learn what they can about this program that they have shown interest in using...

it's been this way for as long as I've been here... I, personally, have not competed in a bryce challenge in a while, but this one sounded interesting, so I think I'll have a go at it. Does that make me a part of some clique that I don't know about?... you put a entry in the challenges you like and you ignore the ones you don't... you can't please all of the people all of the time... and the only way to change things - that is fair to EVERYONE - is to work your butt off and win the popular vote in a challenge. Then you get to make the rules.

But always remember, just because you don't place in the top three in a group of 65 doesn't mean that nobody liked your work or that it wasn't any good... just that your picture didn't get the votes this time... oh well, there's always next month.

EDIT: all of the "you"'s above are hypothetical and not aimed at any member in particular

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 11:03

FWTempest i love what you said, esecially this: quote "should not expect to win a challenge in a popular bryce forum" boy that just cracks me up. If only you knew the truth or how many members have stopped posting threads, commenting on threads or even posting their images on this so called popular bryce forum. Actually i do believe it is ment to be a bryce community and if that is so then shouldn't all the challenges cater for all old and newer users of bryce in this community and not just a selective few(modellers). Anyway i'll not carry on with this because it seems i'm the only one standing up for the newer members and users of bryce. No wonder they aren't bothered with this forum or this site anymore. One of those newer users of bryce and one that didn't post on this forum is my girlfriend and i can now see why she doesn't come here much...here i was telling her how great it was being a member of a forum that didn't have cliques...how wrong was i. CrazyDawg (Not one of the clique members)

In answer to Hythshade's question about the scene era and model "pieces"... The intent was to create an airship that would have fit into the era, or close to the era, of the film in question. However strictly or loosely you want to interpret that is up to you. As to model pieces, again the intent was that you come up with something new as oppossed to using someone else's pre-built model of a Wright brothers plane. I don't think the "rules" should be too strict. They should rely more on the artist's integrity. (Probably too strong a word but you get the idea) Starting with a Wright brother's plane model and simply adding a flag or bigger tires is probably a different thing then putting pieces together but I don't think there is any need to DQ anyone who chooses otherwise. In my opnion it is fine if you use parts of other models and assemble them in a new way so long as you have fun doing it. After all it's not a pure modeling contest is it? :)

@CrazyDawg, Why are you so intent on discouraging new people from entering the challenge or posting for help? I don't see that as 'standing up for them'.

Can you tell me why you think new people aren't smart enough to be able to do simple models in Bryce...and why they couldn't 'learn' from doing? From participating in this challenge? You are making it sound way more difficult than it is...

I believe I stated before that anyone needing help could ask for it, that if they had an idea that we would help them with it so that they could participate. Claymor stated you could take peices of models and assemble them into a new model, if your modeling skills are entry level...that will allow everyone to enter and give it a try.

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 20:51

Can you tell me why you think new people aren't smart enough to be able to do simple models in Bryce...

I don't think new people aren't smart enough to be able to do simple models in bryce.
Can you or anyone else tell me or a new person where to go and find information on building models in bryce.

I have been part of this forum for sometime and i do recall when i asked some questions a while back on this subject those that answered and yes including yourself all said get wings3d, blender or some other 3d modelling program, not one offered help with teaching me how to do a model in bryce.
Is that the kind of help you are refering to when you said "anyone needing help could ask for it, that if they had an idea that we would help them with it so that they could participate"

Now i am not that stupid, i know that with some guidance one could do a model in bryce but in all fairness i don't believe there is to many tutorials on building a castle, tower, spaceship, car or even a buidling on this or many of the 3d sites on the net.

Also i hope that a few new ones do like claymor stated and swap bits around from different models and turn out a good model with doing that. I wish them all the best and i really do hope a few of them enter this and more challenges.

To any newer bryce users or members don't take to heart what i have been saying, you have it in your heart to do well in the 3d art world, continue with doing what you do well and be happy doing it. Don't forget if you want to build a model in bryce like zhann stated, just ask for help and you'll get it. They might even point you in the direction of a program like wings3d to build your model, but hey you can say you built it in bryce with the help you got from this forum ;)
EDIT: I have finished on this subject. CrazyDawg (Watching from the shadows for Zhann's cats)

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 21:51

CrazyDawg we were all newbs once and we all entered our first challenge once, so you are only following in the footsteps of all who have come here before you. The first challenge I entered was a couple of years ago, I knew it wasn't good enough to win but it pushed my knowledge of Bryce just that little bit further and that is how we all learn. It may be difficult till you've got a better idea of what is possible with Bryce but you do have fun on the learning curve and the more you learn the easier it becomes. 8) Catlin