I pre-ordered P6, and I preordered P5. I have the idea that anyone who has a stake (as a tool-user or hobbyist) in a commercial program almost has a duty to upgrade. If we don't subsidize the development of improvements, what do we will think is going to happen? That the government will take over Poser and code a non-profit version? That said, has anyone ever seen a company put their main software product up for sale (even if for pre-ordering) without telling what it really does? Without a "What's New" list? Does anyone know why CL is doing this? Maybe the answer appeared in a previous post about P6 and I missed it (who can read them all, there are like SO MANY!?) Anyway, I can't think of a good reason. Anybody? I honestly would like to know.

CL is (will be) releasing info about new featues bit by bit. I guess it's their idea of keeping interest and anticipation on a high level.

I'm not sure if that is good or not, but like many others, I have pre-ordered P6 based on what's already been revealed (not much), but mostly 'on pure, blind faith'.

IMO the pre-order upgrade price, the inclusion of ShaderLE and the (undefined) 'Winter Queen' package, together with the additional 15% off make it a very attractive deal, to me anyway, sight unseen but we shall see...

(eddited to fix stupid typos)

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 18:20

Message edited on: 02/20/2005 18:23

What it does: i think we can assume that it does everything P5 did plus what they say they have added. They are letting out the new features slowly to build/maintian intrest of the consumers. It's called advertising. Even if you dont like it, your still talking about it. Ive never known a company to put out a "complete" "what's new" before the product was release, nor have i known a "what's new" for a program of any significant size to cover everything that's new. but that is just my experience. My order has already been placed. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

They are letting out the new features slowly to build/maintian intrest of the consumers... your still talking about it." You're right, it's working (maybe too well, hence the title of my post). I'm not arguing with their approach, just wondering about their reasons. Is this "bit-by-bit" approach going to be their policy from now on, in future releases? I still think it's odd to ask people to pay for something without listing what's in it. When will they give a complete list of new features and changes? Ever? In fact, I'm not arguing with anybody, not saying that the price isn't worth it. I would have probably gone farther than guslaw and ordered on "blind faith" alone, without knowing anything about what's new.

When will they give a complete list of new features and changes? Ever? I'm guessing we will get as complete a list as we will see on the release date maybe a few days before.

Tyger_purr,
I will pop a bottle of champagne ready for that date! I have already been going through my archives of my old photos, looking for some which should be especially suitable as backgrounds to use with Shadow Casting, and post as the first P6 freebies.

I wonder if there is anybody out there toiling on a product or python script or whatever which will be made obsolete as soon as we know what P6 will do (or will not include).

Some people have been doing very well with subsurface light scattering and toon rendering products, I see from "What's Hot" on the MP. It they are working on new stuff, I wonder how they feel about the recent additions to the list of P6 features, and if they are wondering what's next. I still think it rather odd that CL doesn't just come out and TELL us.

Sounds to me like their not sure what features are going to work.

I think CL is trying to market over a period of time to create some energy surrounding their product rather than immediately dumping it into stores and having a ton of complaints. If they revealed all their secrets at once, there's the chance that another developer might attempt to implement some of those ideas into their product. From what I have heard, P6 is going to be much better than P5.

When I found out they were tossing in Shader LE, I figured it was worth the $100 or so for the upgrade.

"That said, has anyone ever seen a company put their main software product up for sale (even if for pre-ordering) without telling what it really does? Without a "What's New" list?" No, only DAZ and Curious Labs do such things because only the the 'poser community' puts up with it..... If any serious company use such tactics, they simply would get so much protest they'd chage their mind very quickly. I remember Caligari did try it ones and the the response was so very negative that they stopped doing it very quickly again. "Does anyone know why CL is doing this?" They actually think that 'we' like it that way and they know that most people around here don't even care what is in Poser 6, they will upgrade anyway. I've been a Poser user from version 2, but this will be the first version I'm not getting at all. I'm not obligated to buy at all and I've had more then enough of these kinds of tactics used by some of the poser related companies. I want to be treated as a regular customer, knowing what I do buy. Curious Labs is just making use of the great addiction most Poser users do have: it's new, you need it, don't fall behind, you will not count anymore if you don't have it. Most poser users just buy and buy without ever using or needing the stuff they buy and CL is just making use of that. They know their customers very well. It's called creating a hype and most of the poser stuff is just one big hype and none of the users realize it..... I'm already seeing the day coming that Poser 6 is released and we get lot's and lot's of angry customers that wished they'd never buy it, just like it was with Poser 5 in the beginning. I may sound a bit negative, but I just can't believe how this community just puts up with companies like these.

'That said, has anyone ever seen a company put their main software product up for sale (even if for pre-ordering) without telling what it really does? Without a "What's New" list?' Games companies do it all the time, quite succesfully. They hint what new features will be available during a long buildup to a games release (which you can preorder if you like) and then all the features are disclosed in a review just before or after the actual release. It's how you generate excitement in something. If a game is a sequel then fans will preorder before any info is disclosed based simply on the pedagree of the previous game - same thing with poser. I love P5 (on the whole), the new features which have been discloased thus far for P6 look like things I would use, it's inevitable I'm going to buy it at some point anyway so I might as well get it in special packaging with a load of free stuff on preorder :P I don't for one minute think you or anyone else here has suggested this but noone has forced me to buy it, if it arrives and it sucks then thats my own fault - it's the risk you take :)

"If we don't subsidize the development of improvements, what do we think is going to happen? That the government will take over Poser and code a non-profit version?" EXCELLENT point, excellent phrasing. And yes, even though I'm not in this for the money, I have been holding back on development of new ideas. I don't want to put in the work only to find that P6 does the same function. That's the downside of CL's teasing approach.

Games companies do it all the time, quite succesfully.
Thanks Hawke for the info. I have not bought a game in yrs, didn't know that was their marketing technique, but it does make sense and explains a lot. I just had never seen it for "productivity" software.

I'm already seeing the day coming that Poser 6 is released and we get lot's and lot's of angry customers that wished they'd never buy it, just like it was with Poser 5 in the beginning. aeilkima

I hope that is not inevitable. Maybe P6 will be so great that it won't happen. I thought it scary that so many people didn't upgrade to P5, although I understand their reaons.

Some software seems to become mature (around V.8) and people stop ungprading because they don't perceive the the value of the additions as worth the hassle and expense of the upgrade. (I wonder if Photoshop has not hit this wall with CS.) But Poser has a long way to go before it is 'mature'.

That said, has anyone ever seen a company put their main software product up for sale (even if for pre-ordering) without telling what it really does? Without a "What's New" list? - Qualien

Yes. In fact in the case of professional software it is quite common. Heck, many high end programs have "support subscriptions" where you pay fairly big $$$ to get the new versions - without even knowing when, what and if such versions may be (no roadmap).

They aren't forcing you to buy it, they are offering a discount. If you don't think you have enough information then don't order. It isn't a trick or a scam... it's just an offer.

Besides, given how many people are waiting to rip P6 to shreds - regardless of whatever is in it - I think they are smart. Giving out too much info now is only going to give ammo to those looking to start the hue and cry.

Even if the only changes to P6 are the render improvements and UI improvements already shown in the postings, it is worth the upgrade - especially an upgrade offer that includes the excellent Shade LE.

"I'm already seeing the day coming that Poser 6 is released and we get lot's and lot's of angry customers that wished they'd never buy it, just like it was with Poser 5 in the beginning." - aeilkema

Of course we will... because there are so many people so entrenched in their anti P5 / CL stance that it woudln't matter what happened. This is inevitable when companies upgrade. Many Windows users will never upgrade to Windows XP, many Mac users will never go to OSX, Many DOS users never went to Windows and so on. Some people simply hit a wall at what they can handle in terms of features or they get so comfortable with their hard won knowledge that they won't accept change.

You have to accept that any major upgrade (and P4 -> P5 was a major change in features) will leave some users unhappy and railing for the "good old days". When you add in that the Poser merchant community is composed of many who are not professionals or heavily technically savvy you get a whole new layer of resistance: merchants who can't make the leap.

I have absolutely no doubt many voices will rise up in horror at P6. Many of them the same ones who still complain that P5 won't run on their 16 meg Win95 box. There isn't anything to be done about it.