There's a new post in the gallery which is pure and blatant advertising. Don't those belong in the Product Showcase gallery? It's not a bad picture but it's not even thinly disguised as 'art' as so many (that I think are commercial posts) are. I really don't mind them too much, even though they showcase a product that is not yet available and are usually posted by a beta tester but this is just plain advertising by the artist and IMO (and the TOS, I think) does not belong in the Poser gallery... I know that the Poser gallery gets a lot more hits than any other gallery here and I would have made a comment under the picture but the poster has disabled comments... Your opinions please...

Yep, I'd say that's an advertisement. Merchants have every right to credit their own hard work but "..in my store" and "coming soon" text should be left out unless you're putting it in the product showcase gallery.

what image are you talking about?

If it had been posted in the Product showcase forum or gallery I'd put a link to it without thinking twice because, as I said, it's actually not bad IMO. I do not want to promote any more unethical free advertising (accidental or delibarate on the part of the poster, I don't know, I hope accidental) than I have to but I have my gallery display set to 18 thumbs and right now it's on the 2nd page of the Poser gallery...

From the text, its not his product but someone else's...

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Yeah, I found the picture in the Poser/Pinup gallery. It isn't by the characters' creator, but by a betatester. How many times were there sample renders of HyperReal before its release? If anything, I like to see pending releases, and WIPs, as I feel they add to the creative competition of who is making what product. Besides, isn't giving credit to merchants free advertising? I know that many excellent renders led me to purchase almost everything by 3Dream, Morris' textures, Neftis' hair, and many other items. Following the same logic, Curious labs would be guilty for posting the sample renders and screenshots of Poser6, in its pre-release stage. -The Starkdog

Unless I'm missing something, they (artist/merchant) are the same. The gallery image is the used as the product thumbnail. So lodge a complaint. If nothing else, the ad hype spoils an otherwise nice picture :-)

You are right Kendra, you - as well as every other merchant/artist - do have every right to (and you should) credit your own hard work in artistic renders that showcase your product. This is one way that consumers like me find out about new products and I appreciate art well done. Often these art works are very imaginative, quite well done and show that there are many possibilities. Artist/merchants like Danie (of Danie & marforno) or Vali/Valentina as well as you come to mind. That is not the issue though... This merchant not only posted a blatant advertisement in the wrong gallery but also credited only his own product(s). (I'm sure the costume, hair and textures are not his).

According to what Tim Choate said in his interview, if a post is a blatant ad and says "coming soon" etc., it belongs in the Product Showcase Forum. Since he owns the site, he ought to know. Unfortunately, desperate merchants will shove their ads where they are not wanted, figuring that even bad publicity is publicity. :ptui: Are featuring any products can indeed be art. But ads are ads. Even if they are done by beta testers and friends who get gifts as long as they promote the image, they are still ads. If an artist only credits the one product, and leaves out all the others and all the freebie makers, what are we to think? Credits started as a way to thank the freebie makers since they were not getting any money for their time. So this is a double slap. If a merchant annoys me by scrolling ads in the banners (makes me seasick, so I scroll down asap) or ads where they don't belong, I don't buy from them. If enough of us vote with our wallets, either they will get desperate gnawing on dry bones or they'll get smart. The smart merchants who follow the rules will survive. Carolly

Starkdog - the picture is not by a beta tester but by the merchant. Imckenzie - There's nothing wrong with using your own gallery image, add text and use it to sell your own product but it's not OK to then use that billboard as a gallery entry unless it's a commercial or product gallery. PapaBlueMarlin - Those are his products that are being advertised, except the most obvious one, the costume - no credit given for that...

I may seem confused due to cold/allergy meds, but are you referring to the "SuicideGirlz" pic? If so, he DOES credit billy-t's dress, 3Dream's Egypt Hair, Face_off and Morris' HyperReal pack. I hope this is the pic you are referring to? If you check the Product Showcase Forum, there is an announcement about the "SuicideGirlz" there with a pic and link. What seems to be confusing to me, is that they are anouncing the pre-release of "Tawny", and talking about her likeness to their character "Christine", who is the one depicted in the Gallery, when NEITHER are available. I kinda see what you mean about putting the cart before the horse. I think I need another Benadryl, as I am getting really dizzy now! Later, -The Starkdog

Starkdog - No, it's not the "SuicideGirlz" pics although they propably are borderline commercial posts too IMO. I was talking about a post titled "ance", now on page 3 (assuming 18 thumbs per page)

First off -- IMO - something like this just isn't a big deal. It's not the sort of thing that I would get all steamed up about. I wouldn't start out of the gate by making the worst possible assumptions -- sans any real information....and then running off half-cocked on those assumptions.

It's possible that someone made an innocent mistake.

That said, I would strongly recommend handling such a situation by first sending a polite IM to the artist/merchant in question. Ask them about the image -- nicely. Don't take the stinging approach of an accuser. You might just be wrong about the situation...........

If the artist/merchant doesn't provide you with a satisfactory response, in a reasonable amount of time (this would include no response at all) -- then I would recommend forwarding the issue on to a Mod.

And then I would forget about it.

Some things aren't worth starting a big fight over.

Guslaw, I see what you mean. I too feel that that pic was somewhat misplaced. Thanks for clearing things up. -The Starkdog

If you could provide a title or link to the image we can check it out. If you want IM me with the name of artist and I will look at it. SndCastie

"There's nothing wrong with using..." Nope/Yep/Whichever. I was just noting that the image was the same, not voicing an opinion. I try to leave the angst over these flaps to those passionate about them. I save my energy for the nudity rants. They're more fun and I'm fed up with the new American zeitgeist which has turned even cartoons into alleged purveyors purience and perversion. Now what the bastards at Warner Bros. have done to Bugs Bunny, that is perversion and truly worthy of protest. Carry on.

See now this is why i stopped selling and realy posting here at the big R Too many little snitches and whingers craping on about o he breaking this rule or he posting there qwhen it should be here totaly pathetic,this used to be a fantastic place to be regards essexboy

'Starkdog - No, it's not the "SuicideGirlz" pics although they propably are borderline commercial posts too IMO.' Hey thats my pic ^_^ The focus of the thread seems to be on another image (phew) but I just want to clear this up regarding mine......I didn't intend it to be an ad but a bit of fun. I did consider putting it in the preview gallery but decided against it as it's not mine to advertise. Christine is just asking y'all if your hard enough - perhaps the play on words was lost on you? Heck, the character pack isn't even out yet and given peoples average memory span it wouldn't make much sense for me to advertise something when I don't even know when it's going to be released. A friend kindly sent me the pack to play with as I've been smitten with her since I saw she was in development. If it's the preamble you object too check out the rest of my gallery - I always try to let my friends around here know what I'm doing and how I'm doing it and it's only polite to thank my friend for letting me have her for free after all the hard work he put in. As Starkdog kindly pointed out, I credit EVERYTHING I use - even the stuff thats not out yet. Given all the above if a mod feels it's in the wrong gallery I'll move it, I intended it as a pinup and I think it's a pretty good one. (Just go to my gallery and look for 'Girrrrrrlz' - I won't provide a direct link just incase it could be misconstrued as advertising ;D )

Wow.. so this is where everyone hangs out :) I just got notice of this posting and thought I would check it out. If there are any problems with the postings... feel free to let me know by IM. I feel that they were in no way adverts as the images themselves were just that. The style of an advert IMO would be text in the image that takes away from the image itself. I have posted in the product showcase images that will eventually be used in the marketplace. The postings in the main gallery are just that... postings. I enjoy doing them and sharing them with those who like to view them. Notes added to the posting regarding the products are just to answer the questions that we have been bombarded with regarding the release. Hope you guys have a nice day! Sincerely, tattdnpierced

Sorry for the confusion. The original post for this thread did not specify which pic it was. From the wording, I thought it was the pic by Hawke. I apologize if you thought that I was trying to pin this on you. The pic in question was right next to Hawke's pic. However since both of you posted, I gotta question. Tawny and Christine are two seperate characters based off of Laura, right? From the descriptions in the Product Showcase forum, it sounded like both characters were already available, which led to my confusion as posted in the above posts. I do like the character, and do plan to buy them as soon as they hit the marketplace. With my tail tucked down, -The Starkdog

Actually Tawny is in development an should be finalized by the end of the week. Christine unfortunatly is completed but has been awaiting 'osity to test before they release her. They said it takes about 7 days or so before they get around to them with the number of merch submitting products. Good process but slow :( I actually intended to release this series as an exclusive but there wasn't much of a benefit. This series came about when I found Laura sitting there gathering dust and noticed a lot of people making mention that the current characters available all looked the same. Basically I do this for the enjoyment. I myself spend a lot of money on items from other merchants and as one myself have yet to find a way for the merchants to thank there customers. I mean the customer is the one who should be acknowledged IMO. I figure if someone buys my product they are entitled to post it without a credit. It might be different if the product was given to them and they failed to mention anything. I personally try my hardest to credit those whos products I use unless by chance I come accross an item with no reference to go on... then I hope that it would be brought to my attention. Anyways :) Don't want this to become a biography lol I do strongly agree that someone posting intended promo images to be used in the marketplace do so in the product showcase. If the image itself is covered in literature regarding the product. But if the image itself was done for enjoyment why not allow the viewers to enjoy it. Anything below the image is just an optional read. :) You guys/gals have a good night! Sincerely, tattdnpierced

Hawke & suicidegirlz I was not talking about your postings in the Poser gallery. All though I said that they where borderline commercial too IMO (emphasis on IMO) there has to be some leeway where pictures using new or proposed new products are posted. I have no problem with that and I said so. Many artists/merchants do this, even Rembrandts classic painting, Dutch Masters, was commissioned by, and is an advertisement for, the Cloth Makers Guild as an example, and might be considered commercial. Thats OK. What about Andy Warhols famous modern pop art painting of a soup can? Glad you asked. The difference is that it was not done by the CEO of Campbell Soups to sell his soup and then hung in a museum as great art, but by an artist to make an artistic statement and express the artists vision (but Ill bet it sold a lot of chicken noodle soup though). Essexboy - Too many little snitches and whingers craping on about. Thank you for that colorful description of me but this is a huge international community and as such it must have rules and regulation in order to function reasonably well. I know that Artists and Rules dont get along too well. That is almost an oxymoron like Military Intelligence or Business Ethics but none the less, rules and regulations are necessary and should be followed in a venue the size of Renderosity (when possible, IMO) SndCastie The merchant/artist (or a mod, I dont know) has moved the image in question into the Product Showcase gallery. All is cool now and I think we all wasted enough time on this thread. (An aside to the merchant/artist If the number of views are a concern, you might want to post in the Product Showcase Forum. I think youll get a lot more hits and views there than the Product Showcase Gallery)

Rules my arse mate,i aint aving a go at you personaly i am craping on about this place. When i first joined here over 4 years ago i luved it and it had a great atmos with all helping all and even thought the rules are there its still bs. Like the galleries more and more images and photos of naked woman that they say is art which is total bs just some sod wanting to act like a school boy and show of some t and a regards essexboy

Very true Guslaw. All the characters I develop are for my own artistic intentions. Most of these characters have been made into posters and such. The release of the products to the marketplace is so that other may enjoy creating there own images. Those who may be just starting out or just would rather create the art instead of the materials to make the art. I know a lot of people on here rely on other designers to provide products so they themselves can express there creativity. You yourself use many merchant items to create your work but it is still your work. I personally would rather deal with an artist who actually uses their product before it is a product then something from a merchant that never applies his own creation to artwork but rather just to marketing images. Sincerely, tattdnpierced btw: Great images in your gallery. Hope to see some more recent work.

tattdnpierced,
Thanks for the compliment. I need more time and creative inspiration and besides, I'm waiting for P6 and Bryce 5.5 to be released (yeah, likely excuse and why am I wasting my time lurking amd being a busybody in the forums instead of making art?...because that's still easyer than trying to be creative) edited to fix stupid typos (again)...

Message edited on: 02/21/2005 09:03

I have a real problem when someone posts a message complaining about something, but doesn't bother to even give any details. I refuse to play detective, or "20 questions" to fill in the blanks. When you think of it, any image in the gallery can be considered "advertising." We have the option to post credits for all items involved in a render. That's free advertising.

Yes you have that option under the credits but what makes it a promo is the wording available soon or in market place soon or available now,etc words like this in the body of the message. The regular Galleries are for people to show off their art and we have a spacific gallery called the Product Showcase to show off their products. I hope this helps to understand why some images are moved to the product showcase galleries. SndCastie Poser Moderator

I still have a problem with people making their complaints "public," without further details. Why not post a link, or title? Come to think of it, why not send a PM to a moderator?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=889136&Start=1&Sectionid=29&filter_genre_id=0

Bobbie_Boucher My initial intention was to elicit opinions about outright commercial advertisements posted by merchants in the Poser gallery instead of in the Product Showcase forum or gallery. Maybe I did not word it clear enough but that is why I did not include the merchants name or link to the image and I tried to avoid doing so in my various responses However, the thread seemed to focus on the specific image that prompted my post I understand that with our practice of giving product credit, both free and commercial, many images can be considered advertising as you said and Im OK with that. That image however is a pure, simple and unmistakable advertisement to BUY MY PRODUCT by the merchant of that product and did not belong in the Poser gallery. If you want to see the image, it is now where it belongs, the link is above. Oddly enough, I like that image but it was just in the wrong place. I think the reason it has so many more views than other images in that gallery is that the count carried over from when it was in the Poser gallery. I guess the merchants strategy worked

Now that is the most blatant ad I've seen!!! I don't see any room to interpret it any other way. If that link were provided up front, it would have avoided a lot of speculation or discussion.

Some people have way too much time on their hands or no real life problems to get upset about something like that. Oh my, open the window and take a deep breath of fresh air or whatever ... life has much more other things to worry about but not a freaking whatever ad in the Poser Gallery. shakes head and walks away

All is cool now and I think we all wasted enough time on this thread.

Yep.

Probably, but it is a legitimate discussion based on what went down a while back where merchants images were moved simply because they credited their own hard work. We argued that we had our rights and that only certain wording should be the cause for moving an image. The ad in question was a perfect example of what this site doesn't want in the art galleries and what merchants agreed not to do.

Thank you Kendra

Probably, but it is a legitimate discussion based on what went down a while back where merchants images were moved simply because they credited their own hard work. We argued that we had our rights and that only certain wording should be the cause for moving an image. The ad in question was a perfect example of what this site doesn't want in the art galleries and what merchants agreed not to do.

On this point, I agree with you. 100%. I have no problems with merchants crediting their own work.

However, that issue wasn't the central point of this thread.

My point is that matters like this are best handled without creating an unnecessary stir.

Oh absolutely. A simple IM to a mod is all that's needed. I just didn't want to see what happened before happen again. That's why I mentioned it. :)

Lili Anime download is just an advertising for an other 3d modell seller site too.

Message edited on: 02/21/2005 14:56

Lili Anime is a free Poser model. We do check these things before approving them, you know. Cheers Karen Poser Mod

Karen's right, though you do have to 'register' before the download (which it does warn you about.) I merely chucked in fake info for the 'registration', since I'm picky about who I give personal information out to. /P