Attached Link: THE FUTURE OF OUTDOOR RENDERING

Wonder why we Europeans have to pay 599 euro's while the rest of the world has to pay only 599 dollars, that's about 450 Euro's. But then my preciousss, internet is my friend.

For 599$, I would buy a modeling software.
This is a ridiculous price.
Instead, go buy Poser v6.

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 08:02

Aye, I'd have to say that is amazing! It's fairly cheap, too, compared with other ridiculous studio tools. I'm not sure why you brought this up in the Bryce forum, other than to boost your own ego and get attention, but damn...

That's an amazing list of features there. I fear, sadly, that Bryce has just been blown away, again. Good luck trying to keep up with THAT, DAZ... (cross-post) I'm not sure which "modeling software" you CAN buy for $599, but there aren't any modeling programs on the planet that can do what Vue Inifinite can do, period. Make some sense, man.

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 08:08

actually.. if you have 3dsmax, which few people do or can afford, or can understand, or whatever, there's greeble. this is basically a huge greeble-like plugin :) drac (LSD is funny)

Aye, I tried Max, Drac. I tried Lightwave, C4D, XSI, and a whole bunch of other products, and then settled for Maya 6 Unlimited as my 3D app of choice to learn and grow with. As far as I can tell, all of them bow down humbly before the ancient one, including this-here Vue and your-there 3DSMax. 3DS Max is not "a modeling software", but in fact the "3DS" in "3DS Max" stands for Three-Dimensional-Studio. Sarcasm, at it's driest. A studio application is not "a modeling software", although it may incorporate modeling, and I've never seen a new version of Max for $599. To add my own opinion, 3DSMax is clown shoes. My point was, for the money, you really can't get a much better deal than this program, if it does what they say it does. I have no reason to doubt that it does exactly that, these ideas should have been implemented a long time ago... If your options are Vue 5 and Bryce 5, there's no comparison at all...

It's not over till the fat lady sings...

lol, i'm not even trying to compare them :)

I'll let you know when Bryce 5.5 comes out..I don't use 2/3rds of Bryce 5.0 at this point..;)

Aye... Game isnt over... Daz just got Bryce... Like I said in Previous Posts, Vue has been getting Worked on for years now and Bryce just sat... Bryce will need to catch up in Version 6/7 and then Surpass by Version 8 or there will be Trouble.... It does look Good tho...

RoberJ, you might want to be sat down when you read this LOL. Here in Australia we would have to pay $754.49AUD for vue, thats only $446.53EUR :)

Another feature to add to the wants-list for Bryce 6. Daz has definitely got a job to do. Heheh... (If you think of it a bit, my guess is that Vue figured out a clever way to re-use the bit of code that does hair mapping to place objects too. So the B6 programmers should aim for that first and then engineer the code a bit. I'm also guessing that Vue knows how to use instancing to save memory.)

I wouldnt call it game over. There will always be people using Bryce, especially with that pricetag. It also depends on what type of scenes youre creating. There are still a few questions that, at least im wondering about before i decide if i should buy it or not. For example, can the objects in an eco-system be controlled individually? (placement, size, texture, deletion etc) For a city scene, you cant rely on randomization alone. Some of the objects always need to get tweaked.

that geomaterial is a trick world builder did , in a simpler version, 2 years ago already. vue implemented it well though. Ill ask the blender developers to add such a material based scattering function too. lol

I think the more interesting play there is Vue Esprit 5 + Mover 5 + Poser 5 for $399.00 I went from their main page and clicked on the Vue 5 infinite link and the page crashed...always makes me chuckle when that happens on a software companies website. I agree with Erlik somewhat, it ain't over till the fat lady sings...however, the faster I can get her rendered the quicker she'll be ready to sing and by the looks of it Inifinite will put a choir in there with her too boot. :)

"I think the more interesting play there is Vue Esprit 5 + Mover 5 + Poser 5 for $399.00" That's the ordinary Vue 5, Claymor, not Infinite. Rudy, that explanation of Czarny's looks interesting - ecosystems have a randomisation of materials.

Yes, but what i meant was if i can select one single clone and work with it, or even delete it, without affecting the rest. They bring this up on E-ons "eco-page", but looking at the image, only groups of models can be worked with, not single ones. For nature scenes, this is ok, but in a city scene, this could be a great disadvantage. Ill just have to wait for a demo and find out.

For $100 more I'd think Cinema 4D R9 is a much better deal. You can also get a bundle from CL that includes Poser 5 and 6 and an older version of Cinema 4D and BodyStudio for $439. I've seen some very nice landscape images coming out of Cinema, especially in conjunction with XFrog.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=908850&Start=1&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNe

Whats the purpose of comparing Bryce 5 which is now what 2 years old or more? To a New Product on the market? Again this reminds me of HighSchool. My C64 is better than your Atari 800XL. Batman is better than Superman My Dad can beat up your Dad. Want more?

For $100 more I'd think Cinema 4D R9 is a much better deal. You can also get a bundle from CL that includes Poser 5 and 6 and an older version of Cinema 4D and BodyStudio for $439.
I've seen some very nice landscape images coming out of Cinema, especially in conjunction with XFrog.

Uhhh ..... what about GI, IBL and radiosity???
for that in Cinema R9 you need to hand over another $500 USD
for the AR "module"
and is 'Xfrog" freeware because Cinema does not offer and vegetation/plants etc.

and body studio is USELESS to us Mac Users who use poser for character work
becauses its windows only.

Even If i were windows based i would get the $500 version of Softimage XSI.
but as a Mac user who already owns poser 5, VUE Infinite is a good overall choice .

I own Cinema4D 8.5 BTW
so im not knocking the app itself

But in my thinking $700 USD for a core Application that has no real high- end render options is a BIG mistake on Maxons part!!

especially when you consider that as of march 21st
even poor little Poser will have better render options built in
and at a cheaper price.

and yes C4D has good modeling tools
but so does Wings and its
FREE

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 13:59

Is there even a release date on Bryce 5.5? If not, the fat lady might not be singing anymore cuz she's dead, LOL. And if a Bryce 6 will ever be made, DAZ would have spent so much time and manpower on it to catch up with current technology and demands that they would have to jack up the price. It may no longer be affordable to average joes like many of us. :(

Is this the vue forum?... because there are more posts in the last page about vue than bryce. I have bryce 4, I don't update to 5 becasue I though that taht version was 4.2 or 4.5 and not 5, anyway, I wait till bryce 6.

LOL alvinlaya, I'm thinking the same thoughts... Many of us was afraid of this situation; DAZ is still fiddling with implementing Character Studio into B...ok, I shut up now. :-)

Just a pointer here... Most render effects can easily be faked in Cinemas core package. And many of the best CGartists still prefer lightdomes, simply because its quicker and they have more control. To rely souly on a click-for-radiosity button, would put you in a really awkward situation, if a client want the job done faster. Im not putting down the new Vue here, heck even im interested to try the eco-system, but with Cinema core, you can create everything, including people. Thats something you cant do with standalone Vue. Edit: And this was obviously a reply to wolf359s last post. :)

My opioion, Vue is a great software and I feel it is reasonably priced. I have Bryce 4 & 5, Poser 4, Pro Pack, Poser 5 and soon will get Poser 6, also Vue 4 and Vue Pro. I am getting my Vue 5 Infinite in a few days. I have a lot of them, and work on all of them from time to time. I no longer work in Bryce. The renders just took too long for me.

But others love their Bryce and if that is what you like and are happy with, Bryce is also a good software. But for me, Vue 5 Infinite is what I will need to go forward.I don't mean to offend anyone by this comment either.

Sharen

Message edited on: 03/16/2005 15:51

"Yes, but what i meant was if i can select one single clone and work with it, or even delete it, without affecting the rest." You can apparently always use the "foreign object" thingie. :-) Damn. Really. We are discussing another program here. Aaaargh. I'm going over to DAZ to rant and rave.

I just have to wait for the British art mags to put my 'upgrades' on the cover..;)

"Damn. Really. We are discussing another program here." Youre right. Im done! :)

Were talking about another program because were frustrated over whats happened to Bryce over the last few years. So yeah, we all have a right to seek what works for us. Watching these programs that at one time couldnt possibly hold a candle to Bryce are all pulling ahead with the technology (some trickle down from higher end programs like this instancing feature) and leaving Bryce in the dust. But I think the fat lady is just clearing her throat for unless DAZ bought Bryce to stick it in the dungeon to pull it off the market, they know they have to be able to compete with these other programs to make their product profitable otherwise, its a lost game. What made Bryce attractive aside from the fact that it was a great program, was that it was affordable and within most folks financial reach. Like Alvinylaya, I too am concerned that in order to compete within the market, DAZ may have to up the price which would probably not put it within easy financial reach to many of us. BTW, I dont know about Vues egosystem instancing but if its anything like what 3DS Max has had for many years now, the instance can be made unique meaning you can give it its own true existence within the 3D world and be able to ply it without affecting other clones.

You have a point there Quest, I take back my words about the fat lady :) I guess DAZ wouldn't have bought Bryce unless they wanted to make a profit out of it. I just hope they can move a bit faster cuz it's hard to get customers back once they get used to another program. I'm still rooting for Bryce to make a comeback, that's why I haven't tried Vue... I'm afraid I might get used to it.

Very nice...how long did that take to model? I need to learn how to model but Dont have the patients to learn complex software.

Man, when I bought bryce 3&4 they were expensive.....I have no proplem buying a software if it is expensive(photoshop bundle for 999$).The thing is, if the program is what you want, has features that you find valuable in pictuture/art creation, and is pricey.....save up for it.Usually, if a program is expensive, it has lots of flexibility and is geared tword users who plan on learning the app inside and out.If you are a casual user...take what you can get and stop getting misty eyed over apps that are not made or geared tword you at all.3D art is a privilege, not a right.I like Bryce alot, but have moved on recently because it was holding me back, but I still enjoy this community and its members.Chances are I'll always play with bryce here and there. I will say though...Vue is tempting....but I already can do everything that that app has feature wise with my copy of cinema.But if I want a tree...I have to model it.....arg, I'm going nowhere with this really.I'll shut up now.

Bryce will have to change its approach to its next version. there are a few ways to do this. I would make more import and and export options and even some more render options. Look aty popular stand alone modelers and find a way for Bryce to work better with them. Example import export Rhino files and render them as spline objects. (renderman can do this with RIB files)Ａ　faster render option for when you want to do animations and large pictures or just pressed for time. Market it as a render engine that works with popular modeling packages. Add a UV mapper to ti too. If you try to do exactly what Vue is doing why buy Bryce? You are just a Jonny come latley. Instead maek a product taht does the Bryce thing and adds value to other popular programs. Then again what do I know.

First scroll back up to the top of the page....read below the Renderosity header. Then click here and read foleypro's two posts carefully. Then click here ->Rochr with Bryce5<-goggle at the picture then scroll down to post #4.

Bryce was dead, kept afloat only by the love of its users. Now that Bryce is being resurrected, where have you all gone? The 5.5 upgrade is a cleaning up of the code to improve speed, and a bell and a whistle. DAZ knows what they have to do for 6 to be a viable package, and is actively pursuing those routes. i.e. "DAZ has contacted Kai Krause...the makers of Wings3D....Maxwell coffee....and the best Brycers bar none."

I'm seeing Bryce compared to specific purpose software. I am not willing to give up it's flexibility. I'm seeing Bryce compared to software that has shelves of how-to books at the bookstore. I am not willing to give up it's simplicity. I'm seeing Bryce compared to software that cost $400 or more. I am not willing to give up it's affordability

How much did you pay for Bryce? Was it the free Bryce4 from the magazine? $80 Bryce5? Or are you an old timer? Get Bryce3 for 6 furs and some shiny beads? I got Bryce4 for $160 shortly after it was released. I got Bryce5 from DAZ for $40, and I'll get 5.5 for about $25 after vouchers. How can you demand the same features of a $400+ program?

I understand that some people are posting comparisons out of concern for the future of Bryce. But that is not the tone Im reading. Over and over and over.

My Dodge Neon is not a Porsche 911! Whaaa!

xenic101
(sick and fucking tired of seeing his pastime thrashed about in the single largest BRYCE community on earth.)

I'm not trying to thrash bryce, but if the gigantic wishlist that alot are asking for get implimented....it will be pricey to say the least.I hope with bryce 6 they bring a major focus to improvment on the Tree creation aspect,as well as add plants(that can grow if possible).The only other thing would be adding some type of export function of the scenes....even if it was just the terrains and plant life.I'll wait and see what happens...I don't think DAZ wants to lose money or anything.I think we will be quite surprized at what B6 can do...when it comes.Sorry if I sounded a little negative in my first post.

Good that you are so optimistic about DAZ and Bryce in the future. I simply see what happened the last years with DAZ and DAZ Studio - still no final version out, still copyright issues on the render engine when i understood it right. You really think they will change their attitude especially for Bryce? Good luck. Oh, i am a beta tester for Vue Infinite btw. Before you find that out yourself. But i always say and think everybody must do their own choices. I used Bryce from version 1 on till 5 as well but did a move after Vue 4 came out on Mac.

Well, Wabe it just doesnt make sense to go into business to loss money and credibility. Id like to think that DAZ is trying to do it right, from the start. After all, they did sink a nice chunk of change into buying it from Corel. I too started with Bryce when it first made its move into the PC world. And they werent ready for it. They pushed out a Windows version that crippled most machines and there were a lot of unhappy campers, myself included. Felt like they got your money and said why not let the consumer be beta tester and be the end user all at the same time. Ive also tried Vue 2, skipped 3 and bought 4. Vue 4 is still sitting idle somewhere in my computer. Tried it a few times and got turned off, I saw Vue as a Bryce wannabe. If Vue doesnt pull far ahead of Bryce after Bryces been laying around in mothballs all these years then they would deserve to loss their market share, thats business. Seems to me that DAZ is taking its time to get it right, at least, thats what Im hoping. Hey, if at the end they dont produce, then most of us wont have a choice but to move on to better pastures. After all, cant just sit around forever while the Johnny-come-lately whizzes by. For the time being, Im keeping the faith.

I am remaining faith-less, as it were. I don't care what kind of features a program has, none of that crap is going to make me a penny unless I learn to apply myself better. Instead of focusing on what my software can and can't do (Bryce, Maya, Photoshop, Amorphium, Rhino, AfterEffects, PlantStudio, Riptide, a million plugins, etc.), I myself need to focus on streamlining my flow, finishing up a gallery/portfolio site, and making a demo reel. In the end, I'll still use Bryce to render my stills, and use Maya to animate, and PS and AE respectively for postwork. I hope nobody thought I was going to give up on Bryce and "switch" to Vue, that would be ridiculous. After what we just shelled out for Maya 6 Unlimited, I doubt I'll be buying anything, even food, for a long, long time!

Well I currently own Max (3.1) Maya 4 unlimited, bryce, truespace, cinema4d, teragen, POVray and the main two that I play with are Max and bryce. I find the maya interface and workflow horrid, compared to max. When it really comes down to it, you pick a package that suits you same way some prefer watercolour to oils and work with it. It's the art that's important and, as LSD says, a workflow that suits you, not the package.

slaps DAZ stop staring at vicky's virtual boobs and wake up!!!! -- Ray (whisteling the 3dsmax themesong)

The thing with DAZ that made me finally switch to Vue definitely is their relucatance to even give a release date. First they promised Bryce 5.5 beginning of the Fall 2004. then they pushed it to end of the Fall 2004. Then they promised that it would be ready end of 2004. Then the beginning of 2005. end of January they tell us it will be a few more weeks. After a few more weeks they ask us to wait a few more weeks. And last week they told us that in a few more weeks they'll tell us when it will be released. All along the way DAZ even tried to deny some of the release times given. All that they're doing with Bryce 5.5 is optimizing the render codes, make Bryce 5 work with DAZ Studio and improving OpenGL. They've been working over 7 months on that. How long have they been working on DAZ Studio? It has been in beta for over a year now..... I'm expected to trust such a company? All of this starts to sound like a company that doesn't really know what it's doing.... In the mean time while waiting for Bryce 5.5, Vue 5 is released. and now we see Vue 5 Infinite.... And I'm to believe that Bryce will catch up, while DAZ doesn't even want to give a final release date for Bryce 5.5? Well, I decided not to wait and I don't regret it.... Bryce 5.5 isn't interesting really anymore, perhaps Bryce 6 will be, but I'm afraid that will take years to be released. Instead of dreaming what Bryce 6 will be like, I'm making my dreams come true with Vue!

I think bryce has not go for the "modeling" way. Today, there is very good modelers in the market and for free, wings3d,blender .... I think bryce must improve the vegetation system, give it animation, better import options. I always think about bryce ,vue awb they are world creators and render programs, and that's the way bryce must go.

Sounds to me like propoganda, aeilkema. Only problem is, you're totally right... Since MetaCreations had Bryce, we haven't seen any real significant changes. Bryce 3D and Bryce 4 and Bryce 5 all share the same core, with the same stupid material libraries, and only mere droppings of new features. I still can't think of any single thing that Bryce 4 had which Bryce 3D didn't have, and so far I haven't seen anything at all about Bryce 5.5 other than text. From a hobbyist standpoint, Vue seems to have the edge. From a professional standpoint, I think either program is like a drop of water in a rainstorm. No job opportunity will care wether you use Bryce or Vue, unless you create that opportunity yourself... The world is fat on the needings of 3DS and Lightwave and Maya users, and that's about all I've found for opportunities... I guess my point is, even Bryce 6 Omega won't save the day. I just hope Bryce 6 is more FUN than Vue, at least!

I dont mean to sound offensive here, but everytime E-on releases something new, suddenly lots of Vue people pop up from the woodwork, running around in the Bryce forum, telling us all how bad Bryce is, and that Vue is the best program in cosmos. And for some reason, every one of them seem to have pushed Bryces limit to the max... ;) Personally, i wasnt speaking of leaving Bryce, only to add it to the other tools i already have, and thats mainly because of the eco-system. I know that it has a limited use, and i wouldnt use it for city building, (lack of clone-control), but for some specific nature scenes i have in mind, it would make things a lot easier and faster. The rest is not that interesting. My world doesnt exactly rotate around GI, Radiosity or whatever, and if it would, i could use Cinema4D for that. :) I have also tried out Vue5, and while it has some great features, i still find that Bryce is far more suitable and more precise for boolean modeling and certain types of scenes, plus, Vue still lacks a good UI, which for me, is of great importance. Personal opinion, i dont expect anyone to share it, its how i feel.

Okay, regardless of the fact if DAZ is, in theory, capable of resurrecting bryce to acceptable status, I think it should be clear that the bryce version we have now is 'bout 2 or more generations of 3D techology behind. Not a bad thing considering the programs age, but I doubt (seriously doubt) that bryce's code as it existed when metacreations left it is compatible with these new developement. The fact that mister Ken Musgrave himself, who worked on Bryce at Metacreations has said that a lot of the code in bryce doesn't really make total sense. It gets the job done to some degree, but it's not "clean" and balanced out like the coding of Mojoworld, which was based on the same principles as some of bryce's technology. I also recall Ken said that Bryce's coding is a mess. It should be hard for outside programmers to find their way around in there. I recall having seen rendertimes with the supposed Bryce 5.5 beta compared to those in bryce 5.0 on this forum. On those, we could clearly see that, while small scenes get a significant (but not big enough to compete with most other quality render engines) speed increase, yet the more complex the scenes get, the less the rendertimes went down. From all this I draw to the following conclusion: - DAZ's Bryce 5.5 is an optimized version of Bryce 5.0 - Bryce's code is a mess, doesn't always make sense and is outdated and not yet capable of handeling things like vue's ecosystem technology. The best step to securing that bryce can stand the pressure of incorporating years of technological advancement in a short time would be to COMPLETELY REBUILD bryce's code from the ground up. Structurize it better and more fficiently. Work out the stuff that doesn't make sense and make it so that it will be mathematically and logically correct. This has been done to other programs in the past and it is simply the best way to secure quality code that is both up to date and efficient for leaps of technological advancement to come. Current Bryce status: Bryce 5.5 is hardly a step forward in the right direction and will most likely NOT be of significance to bryce's future IF it wants to ever go and catch up Vue and/or other programs. -- Ray (Automated "female jiggling" technology for DAZ models does not count as a significant technical improvement for Bryce 6)

I will never quite understand that kind of religion war between 3D software (or programming languages, or cars, soccer teams or whatever). Bryce is a tool. Vue is a tool. The only thing that really matters is how these tools are used to create images that only exist in our minds. Claiming that one tool is better than another is pointless as there are so many criteria - is 'better' ... cheaper ? easier to use ? faster ? more pleasing visually ? In the right hands, all tools are capable of creating wonders.... even MS Paint :) If you don't believe me, try a Google search on ASCII art :)

But most people here agree with you in this Agiel. The right hands arent application specific.

If anything I'm bashing my own program at the moment :| haha

"The only thing that really matters is how these tools are used to create images that only exist in our minds.
Claiming that one tool is better than another is pointless as there are so many criteria - is 'better' ... cheaper ? easier to use ? faster ? more pleasing visually ?
In the right hands, all tools are capable of creating wonders.... even MS Paint :)"

....Sorry but this oft repeated mantra of " its not the tools its the artist "
is all too often loyalists "fanboi" denial about the short comings of their favorite application.

I was a bryce user since version 2 so im not some "elitist'
who has never used the program to any real extent.
I use cinema4DXL for my modeling/rendering now BTW

no amount of skill or creativity will compensate for an outdated feature set
that is just not up to the task of helping you realize your creative vision
so please spare me this myopic nonsense about how "great art" can be made with MS paint.

There are people right now rendering massive scenes in excess of 50 million polygons!!!
using vue's new intancing feature and they are not using KRAY supercomputers
but mid to high range specced machines
one fellow rendered such a scene on his
dog assed old 750 MHZ MAC G4.

so the tools DO matter :-)

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 15:02

Message edited on: 03/17/2005 15:07