I typed up some stuff a couple times and deleted it. Tried to explain feelings and what not. Deleted that too. Realized I didn't have the desire to. Thought about just not saying anything, which if everyone (and I do mean everyone) did for a day or so would probably be for the best, but that didn't seem right. There are people here that I genuinely care for and it would be wrong to do that.

So, I'll simply say, I just can't deal with it all anymore. With everything going on, the last thing I really need is to walk through the minefield of crap that this forum has become. I made the mistake of stupidly posting when I should have just moved on. I then tried to ignore it, throwing myself more into answering questions and pretending like the rest didn't exist but how do you do that when any thread can erupt into garbage at the drop of a dime?

Let me leave you with a thought. Dozens of posts talk about truth. Truth is fleeting and relative. Are my truths the same as yours? You want truth, study philosophy and theology. You need less truth here and more fact. Boil out all the truth and honesty and opinion until you have facts and I'd bet most of the crap would evaporate.

Take care all.

Donald

i knew i should've just left & kept quiet... sigh i am sorry to have brought it up again, losing you too makes me want to cry

If you don't post anymore I will certainly miss your genuine knowledgeable contributions. But I can understand your sentiments so all I can say is ......... take care .... and thanks for what you have done.

I hope there comes a time when things are different and I can again look forward to reading and learning from you and the others here.

Message edited on: 03/23/2005 16:15

Don, I implore you to reconsider. For the last 2 days the crap should have been over. At the moment we're ALL still steaming. There is more than just me to blame too. Give it next week, and if things haven't changed for the better, then decide. I say the same to all of you who are thinking the same. Let the beer be drunk to cool our brains, and business get back to being business, and we learn from this.... (",)

I second that Donald, take a few days and check back in. It would be a shame to loose you. Thanks.

donald, i understand what you're saying, but i hope you will reconsider. i hope you will take some time. i'm giving it a week. if things haven't improved, i won't be around much. not that my absence will be much of a loss. yours will be though. you have so much to offer everyone here. i hope you'll stay!!!

One very informative member.One who has set so many people straight on how to achieve good results. One who knows software, the camera, and how to research out any questions one might have.

I haven't known u for long but man, I surely did appreciate ur presence around here! What a loss if u go! PLz, reconsider indeed! And Sheila, don't be silly will u! ;p

Donald, Do what you must. I can say that this forum is not what it used to be. ANd I mean that in two ways. One is the one that you and I rememebr and the other is the crap that we lived through not that long ago. I have thought that this forum might jsut get too heady for me. To be honest I have learned to ignore the crap. You will be missed and those left behind will suffer from the loss. Not much else to say except keep in touch on or off the list. Magick Michael

I didn't go to the "threads" with the total crap...at least the nasty was gone when I got there. So, this IS internet and I have been on and off many forums. The ones I keep are the ones with the most value overall. The ones deleted are full of persistent naysayers and disjointed asides. Donald, your contributions are need by some of us. I am very included in that. Example of image or tech stuff, you shine. If that is too much for you, then you have a choice but I prefer you stay. At least come in now and then but history tells me "long absence" makes for not returning. The cycle and habit are broken and fixed only with difficulty. Maybe I don't really know what all the fuss is was about but generally this is short-lived. These are a few words, nothing more. TomDart.

As one that also just ignores the threads that have nothing to do with photography, I stay ignorant and you know that they say, "Ignorance is bliss" and I am blissful. Donald I hope you will re-consider, but if not thanks for all your help, including the help you gave today. May your focus stay sharp, and your vision remain clear.

A ps: So Donald, not just you but all members: JUST WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE FORUMS TO BE? WHAT IS IT YOU WANT TO SEE OR FIND INTERACIVE? I have a tough time answering this myself.

IM sent. I hope you will come and check them.

randyrives you said that well.

After reading the posts and some IM's and email, I guess I should have explained more in my initial post; whether I wanted to or not. Would have been the right thing to do. I'm sorry if I don't directly answer a comment or question asked. Just too much stuff.

First, let me say that those of you who know me know that I rarely make emotional, snap decisions in matters like this. You're not going to see me delete my gallery because someone didn't like the color of the border I chose for my image. This time is no different. This is a decision made over months, not days.

You guys know how busy I am and how much value I place on my free time. I think how much of that time I chose to spend here - even to the point of staying up a little later than I should or waking up a little earlier than normal - in the past says a lot about this forum and the people here. It was a place that I genuinely looked forward to going to. A place where my laughing out loud was commonplace.

These days I look at coming here with a level of sadness, dread and the expectation that something else has blown up. Putting it simply, I can no longer invest the time, energy and emotion into the forum when the return has become an almost regular dose of frustration and turmoil. You can agree or not, but it's the way I feel.

This is not about one argument. It's not about one person. It's not about one action. It's about a spiraling pattern that this forum has been undergoing for some time and I can't even pinpoint when it started.

Whenever a disagreement comes up, the same messages about honesty, truth and fact come bouncing in. If anyone wants to associate themselves with that statement and see me as pointing them out unfairly; go right ahead. Knock yourself out. I no longer have any interest in explaining its a generalization.

The problem is that everyone seems so busy personalizing everything said, they fail to see that it's not a matter of right/wrong, truth/lies or black/white. It's grey with both sides usually having valid points. This last blowup was no different and if people could have simply stepped back from their emotions and ego - stepped back and really looked - they would have seen validity on both sides of the argument. Instead, sides were chosen, old wounds re-opened as always and you were either on one side or the other whether you ascribed to that interpretation or not. Situation as usual here on the forum these days. Well to hell with that.

I don't know how this message is coming across. I've tried to keep it even and somewhat emotionless and not angry, but damnit. In the past few months I've lost a good friend at work. I've lost one of the most important women in my life. And now I've fucking lost one of the only places where I could come to just truly relax and let the anxieties of real-life go and along with it, a lot of people I truly care for and would call friend. So yea, I am angry. I'm angry at myself. I'm angry at the members of the forum. I'm angry at the mods and co-ordinators. I'm angry at the staff.

We had something special here and we all let it slip away. We had something special and we cared more about ourselves than the forum and the experience we shared being a member of that forum. And no matter how much hand-ringing we do, it will never be the same again. Between the anger and blowups and crap, we try to paint a veneer of normalcy and happiness over it all and talk about how good things are going. But I think everyone who is a regular here can feel the underlying tension and knows that no matter how long it's quiet, the next big blowup is just slightly under the surface. The forum is a powder keg and at this point, the sparks only need to be very small to set the whole thing off. At least, that's how I see it.

And to answer one last question, am I gone for good? I honestly can't say. Coming here makes me sad. I don't like that feeling. Whether or not that will change in time, I don't know. Whether or not I just stop coming into the forum and just drop into the gallery from time to time, I don't know. All I know is I can't be here right now.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I've tried to explain it as best I can. Justified, unjustified, cowardly, stupid, understandable, incomprehensible ... shrug I'll leave each of you to interpret my leaving as you see fit.

These are such sad days ...

Message edited on: 03/24/2005 11:57

Donald You must do as you see fit, I for one will miss you not being here, as you have always been a very knowledgeable member, and have offered great help and advice to all, personally you have offered me great advice on some technical issues. I guess we have all contributed to the current state of affairs in some way or another. Nothing else I can add that hasnt been said. Best regards Simon

Hi Donald, it is a shame that you have decided to leave, although i do not blame you given what i've read through the forum the last week or so. i hope you will reconsider at some point and drop by again.

i am more then willing to do what it takes
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learn bout photography,
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post another pic of me in a bathing suit? :]

if you'll show off that talent
& share your knowledge with us again?

flutter flutter?

if not... i'll still keep trying
flings herself at Donald's feet hey... it's me sparkles... smile!

I know that I've been in the centre of this one, and know I've learned from it - I also know i've only been back for about a month or so, and the forum had gone through a massive upheaval at that time too. In many respects I agree with you here Don. I know it's the stereotype for artists to be tempramental, and at times we really do epitomise that. Losing you really hurts - I do feel to blame, albeit not solely. I agree totally with Cynlee's post, and echo it completely. Apart from the bathing suit. I still ask you to reconsider. If not, then please, make sure you DO pop in every now and then, you know you'll have a warm reception. Hopefully by then your life too will be happier in every way. Take care, bud. (",)

Donald, I have said my piece. I jsut want to add one thing. Come back long enough for us to see cyn in a bathing suit! Or invite her up to you place and post even better images of her! OK so humor won't work but I tried. MM

Thank you guys for your words and for your caring. It honestly means a lot to me and I already miss you guys.

And Mike, like I said before it wasn't just this one incident or one person. It's not your fault. I do what I do because of and for me, I'm not made to or driven to it by any one person. Truth be known, it has been you guys (Cyn, Michelle, Tedzo, Misha, Zhounder and others - yes, including you) that have kept me here. Without your friendship and your posting, I would have been gone long ago.

I'm sure I'll see you guys again, until then take care of yourselves and cut each other a little slack from time to time.

"Don't be dismayed at goodbyes. A farewell is necessary before we can meet again. And meeting again after a moment or lifetime is certain for those who are friends." - Richard Bach

-=>Donald

Donald, please keep in touch with me. I look up to you and your wonderful pictures! I honestly do. And I don't know what to say other than that. Jinx