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more,more...I'm realy flattend by that detailed spine muscles

Wow, it seems as if most people like Jessi better, with V2 and V3 in strong competition for second.

timber, i don't know if she morphed the back like that (it DOES look good) or that is the default. I hope you left her a nice little compliment. ::::: Opera :::::

I also prefer Jessi, I think her legs, ankles and feet are much more realistic. Sharen

After being told I was as wrong as I could be for thinking that V3 was a far superior looking figure than Jessi I'd like to point out that this was NOT the case. I never mentioned your opinion was wrong, only that it belonged in another thread. One does not complain about the underlying figure when someone asks for input on something else. That said, it appears my opinion is shared by a few others grin

I also find Jessi's torso doesn't bend as naturally and gracefully as V3's. You can see that in the image, I think. Vicky's shoulder is awkward-looking, but her chest, waist, and hips look a lot more lithe. (SP is even better, IMO.)

I did spend time. That was as close as I could get. I'm no Schlabber, I freely admit.

Being that Jessi doesn't have materials for separate brow trans, lips, etc, there may be some flexibility in that area as to where you can place the textures. If you soften the brow ridge and place the eyebrows slightly higher than they are currently on the texture map, you may get rid of some of that stern look. Nice transformation, by the way!

beautiful job!

Nice, but I see what you mean about it being too stylized. That body doesn't seem to go with that face.

BTW, I did try placing the brow higher on the texture to soften her up some, but you really can't do that (very effectively) without also morphing the brow-ridge bone (as you mentioned). I might mess with that more later.

Watching these pictues I guess you just need to scale up the body x and z axis to "decartoonize" Jessie.It looks as if she realy needs some shoulder-joint fixes.

Don't forget that the brows can be moved up nicely in the face room - one of the more convincing morphs in there

Jessie-I like that Face.

Yeah Eternl Knight, I kind of exaggerated that part of it... I was really trying to convey that everyone disagreed with me. It appears that would be the case on a larger scale judging by this thread... ...sigh... consigned to a minority...

Don't worry,onimusha you put on an interesting and usefully (at least for me)discussion.

I'll throw in here for SP3 and/or A3 instead of both Jessi and V3. I like the freshness, newness, of Jessi, and wonder how soon it'll wear off. V3 doesn't get my vote except for having a nicer wardrobe and more nice hair and textures and characters available on the market.

O.k. I partially retract what I said before. After seeing the last few comparison images, I think Vic's body is better than Jessi's. I already felt Vic's face is lightyears better than Jessi's. Main Jessi face problems - alien shaped head, hawk like eyes/brows, bizzare/ugly hook nose, collagen OD lips. Ie. her current face is useless. I've only seen one or two images of the default P6 female head for the face room. It looked like it has potential for morphing. Hopefully I'm right about that. Cause without that, the P6 female isn't going to be worth much. Anyone care to post some more images of the default P6 female head? V3 wins hands down.

randy77: the only way I can duplicate your results with Jessis' arms is if I don't adjust her collars at all...?? From the front view it seems V's collars have been adjusted upwards and Jessi's haven't.

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 18:44

I did adjust her collars. Adjusting her collars lets you adjust where the weird bump is: higher or lower on her chest.

Unzipped, I think the face room default is the same as the Jessi default. You can make some very distinctive changes in her face in the Face Room.

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That would be very bad news indeed. I was muddled in my thinking on where I thought I saw the "default" p6 head. I had reread Geep's face room tutorial for p5 a few days ago, and he worked with the default face there. In p5 Judy was a morph off the default face - are you telling me Jessi isn't the same, that in fact the default p6 face is actually the Jessi face and that Jessi isn't just a morph off of the default face? Can someone who has or is intimately familiar with p6 verify this situation? As I said, that might be a deal breaker for me, because some of her facial structures look nearly unmorphable (is that a word?), particulary her awful nose structure.

Unzipped edited to read "default face" rather than "default female face" - sorry if that caused confusion

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 19:24

Well, I tried applying the default head to Jessi, and it didn't look much different. Let me investigate more. In any case, her head is a very dense mesh. I would imagine it could be morphed very nicely.

Is it possible you had the dress, hair, or jewelry selected when you went into the face room? And, the head used in the Face Room is indeed Jessi's (or James' when he is selected).

I don't see Jessi's head when I take her in the face room. There is not even a resemblance. It's not James face either. ;o)

I might have messed up on my last post. I went back and tried the regular Jessi, not the hires mesh, and she went in the face room just fine. I also just learned that the finger smoosh thingie that lets you morph intuitively, lets you morph each side of the face separately. Not something I need to do a lot, but it's nice. I'll go back and try loading the hires Jessi again and let you know.

Francemi, if you choose the button to import the original head texture you will indeed see Jessi as shown in the pose room. It's the default face room texture that makes her look entirely different.

You won't see the face until you apply it. That's just a sort of schematic you see in the Face Room. I tried applying the default faces, and Deecey's right: the default face room head is Jessi's for Jessi, James' for James. But you can make them look quite different in the Face Room. Ethnic morphs aren't nearly as good as DAZ's, though.

OK, It's a little bit the fault of the GUI, because when I try to go into the face room, it -tends- to re-select the dress even though I have Jessi selected at the time. After four tries it stuck and I took her in there. She morphs just like she should.

I guess you're supposed to create the face first, and dress her later. Has anyone bought the morph packs at RDNA?

But what does the default head look like with no texture applied? Can you morph the default head without applying Jessi's or James's faces? Is there an exportable .obj for the default head, or can you create an .obj for it in poser and export that? Basically - is there a vanilla default P6 head that you can export and go to work on to create morphs without starting at a Jessi base? If so could someone post an image or two of that? Unzipped

Can you morph the default head without applying Jessi's or James's faces? Jessi and James have head geometry that is different than the default head that Don, Judy, Will and Penny were based on. It's all new mesh. So, the default head you get for Judy is Judy's (both hi res and lo res versions), and the same goes for James default hi and lo res heads. I suspect that the reason they went this route was that with the old method, applying the default head to the P5 characters, created heads that were way out of proportion to the rest of the body. As Randy said, though, there are a lot of morphs in the face room that allow you to totally change the look. You can dial them in manually just like the morphs you get with the Millenium figures.

Has anyone bought the morph packs at RDNA? The morph packs at RDNA are very helpful in addition to the face room. As was the case with P5, the hardest areas to work at in the Face Room were around the nose and mouth ... so Colm's morph packs fill that void and much more.

And V3 has JCMs that come built-in, to help fix her collar and shoulder in extreme positions.

Thanks Deecey, I think that answers my questions - you have to start with a Jessi base to create faces for the P6 female. I have to say that's a real bring me down. Her face is a bad starting place for raw material in terms of creating other faces - V3 was pretty versatile in that regard (unless you're trying to do Asian type faces, it doesn't really lend itself to that so well). I hope the Sixus1 folks are seeing this thread, taking all this in and considering it in thier Project Human machinations. Make your main male/female characters as vanilla/versatile/adaptable as possible - the morphers will take care of stylization for you.

capses -- I totally agree about the geometry heavy. I won't be buying a lot of goodies for these folks because I've only got a gig of ram and already my system is on its knees with P6, with no shadows and just a teeny bit of raytrace (-2) and buckets at 32. Sheesh!

Moonrancher, I like that morph! Shark lady! LOL! So that's why Jessi so polygon-heavy even on her scalp, which will rarely be seen... ;-)

Okay... jumping in here after reading this thread and seeing many pictures of Jesse.

-------------- About Jesse The Figure Mesh --------------
I like Jesse's face! She's intense looking. She demands attention. Jesse is a defined character from the start as opposed to an averaged figure like V3, (the only figure who's shape is somewhat similar to Jesse is AnimeDoll/MayaDoll imho). Jesse's a major leap forward for a default Poser Figure. She has wonderful detail in the neck, shoulder, collar, hip, back, and upper thighs (but I don't like the ribcage sticking out). She would never be mistaken for another female Poser figure. She's not generic. This is all plus.

The downside to her mesh is her out-of-proportion body shape in regard to the hands, feet, knees, and arms. But that should be simple to fix by either CL or a talented Poser expert, right?

-------------- About Jesse's Pose-ablity --------------
Here's where bad things happen to an otherwise good thing. Jesse poses no better than Posette cira 1999. She's like rubbery like Gumby in her joint. This is where V2, V3, SP, Steph, Aiko, Laura, and Maddie got her licked, they pose better, but even they don't pose that great for my tastes. Perhaps someday there will be a MAJOR breakthourgh in improving JPs and poses. Maybe if we shout about it enough, that day will come sooner than later.

-------------- About Jesse's UV Maps --------------
First I love having more detail in the neck than a Mill 3 figure. The resoultion quailty between the head and neck is a MAJOR problem in my book. So this is a plus for Jesse. The downside is there proably will be very few textures made for her because her UVs are so different.

And I want to make one more comment about compairing V3 to Jesse...

Curious Labs makes software, (you know a cool program called Poser).
Daz3D makes models that go into Poser.

So I think it's a bit unfair to compare a company that specializes in human figures with a company that makes software. Considering that, I think it's damnned impressive that Curious Labs was able to make Poser Female as good as Jesse is. I expect Daz figures to be better, afterall I pay extra for them. Jesse comes with the program. I think newbies who start with poser 6 will be really happy to have a female figure who's as good as Jesse out of the box. --- Just a thought.

p.s. Can the Poser Gods fix Jesse to take V3 textures or re-slice her so she poses like a Mill 3 figure? I assume DAZ is protecting their copyright on JP and rigging, but still it would be cool to re-rig Jesse.

p.s.s. I know very little about Judy's body. She's the best female body? Can someone do a side by side comparison of all the Poser Females and a test pose for them all too? I'd to take the best parts of each figure and then slice and dice them into creating the best figure overall.

bB

Message edited on: 04/06/2005 20:26

For what it's worth, the standard Jessi (not the hi res) is a lot easier on resources.

DAZ is no longer just a content maker. They now make D|S, too. And that may just provide the posing solution you want. D|S is supposed have a more sophisticated rigging system than Poser. I think their next version of Victoria may have a D|S version that takes advantage of the more advanced rigging.

Poser 7 may also have an all-new rigging system. That was hinted at. Supposedly, the new rigging system will make buttocks and divided chests unnecessary - hence Jessi's Posette-like joints.

They are fixing Jessi's hands and feet. I doubt they'll fix the rest of her, unless villagers start storming the castle with pitchforks and torches. Changing her joints means her clothes won't fit. Not just the CL-made stuff, but all the merchant-created things.

If Jessi is re-rigged, I think it will be by third parties. Perhaps Yamato will make a TenTen Jessi?

I don't think Judy is the best female body. She's the most realistic, though. Not anime-ish like Jessi, not idealized like V3. More of a real woman. She doesn't pose or morph all that well, though.

And what about low-res Jessi? To my eye, she looks just as good as high-res Jessi. She's got the same number of polys as V2, so is much lighter on the system resources than high-res Jess.

She's got the same number of polys as V2, so is much lighter on the system resources than high-res Jess. Yes. Cloth sims are faster on her (less polygons) and with smooth shading on you can hardly tell the difference between her and her denser counterpart. With Capsces' method of doing morphs with magnets, I can easily see her doing her classic character morphs for both hi and lo res versions.