Dear Fellow Photographers and others, we have the choice of allowing "ratings" on gallery submissions. What is your choice and why? Obviously a rating of "magnificient", a notch above excellent would disappoint many and some would get such a rating. So much is subjective and from perspectives of emotion, interest in genre, etc. Some is purely technical. Some ratings are meaningful(depending on the understood credentials of the rater) and others may be thrown out with the old newspaper. If you allow ratings or do not, please let us know the "why" of your decisions and overall feelings on "ratings" in your gallery submissions. This is not an issue with me..more curious than anything else. Peace and Blessings. TomDart.

Hmmm.... I don't allow them on my own images, and never give them. Never have, never will. Why? Well what's the point.....? In my eyes they are pretty useless things. Having been a moderator for a very long time, I was able to observe the ratings that were given on all images. Very rarely would one see an image rated anything less than excellent. It's just not a game that I want to play.... and I'll leave it at that......

my own personal findings- -most will only use excellent or great or none at all -by disabling it, it gives the viewer one less thing for them to do, as their comments are more important to me -occasionally have been used to "troll"... leaving a glowing comment with a [Hmmm] ranking to try & bring it down in the top 100 [Best Rankings] -after awhile i have found them useless & embarrassing :]

Awwwwwa..confidence is a good thing.

I turn ratings off. Not because I do not value your opinions and guidance, but because my life is already rated and quantified in too many ways. Nor do I rate others. What could possibly give me the superior knowledge or instinct to put a number on any of your work? If I comment, it is generally something like, "Very Nice!" That is High Praise from me, and to say much else would imply that I am somehow gifted with Good Taste. If I judge your work, am I not in a sense trying to set myself up as a superior authority? Not a Job I'd willingly accept. The "Last Week in the Gallery," was NEVER a compilation of the week's BEST work. Only those I happened to like. If someone asks for sincere advice, about something tangibly measureable, I will certainly try to give helpful opinions.

I stoped allowing ratings on my photos shortly after my arrival to RR. I think it is useless. I noticed that a photo could have, let us say, 50 comments. If everybody that comments gives a rate the 'average' will be excellent even if the photo has only 3 excellents and all the rest the minimum possible rate ... So the rating does not make any sense for me. Carlos.

I do ratings because my experience has been that they sometimes are pretty honest. I have images in my gallery ranked "Good". But I don't understand how the system works as I will see an image with just a couple ratings, the average showing excellent, and thinking the image is piss-poor will rank it really low. Yet the average is still "Excellent". What gives?

The rating system here doesn't mean squat to me...turned it off awhile ago! I've never rated anyone before...there doesn't seem to be much of a point to it! I comment and give some feedback though! L8r! Joe

i find the rating system completely meaningless. i enjoy people's comments and i like critique, but i just don't see the point in rating. it doesn't help me improve as a photographer. it doesn't do anything. i've been here a year, and when i did let people rate i only got ONLY excellents. that makes no sense & i just never saw the point. i've been rating others, but lately i've begun to just ignore it.

Message edited on: 04/09/2005 23:43

I rate an image if it something I really like. As of late... because I look at every image uploaded(nearly) have had a hard time making time for even a comment.Now that there is coordinators,this should change. Ratings to me seem to not be of relevance.I believe that the number of hits an image has speaks those words.

I stopped allowing ratings in feb this year. In one of my gallery photos (sunrise II) there were only 3 comments but rated Excellent. One of the comments gave real critique (which is what i really want)on the photo but still with average ranking excellent..Mmmmm I prefer a real critique of the photo together with peoples thoughts on the photo and subject. Just my few pennies worth... Steve P.S. Good thread...

I dont allow ratings anymore either. And my reasons are pretty much the same as Cindys. No point in having them if you ask me. Thats me throwing in my 3 swedish kronor....

I'll make a start on sweeping up the coins

Let's face it, anyone who requests ratings expects to have an excellent, don't they?!? I mean, they wouldn't want to upset the RR boat by being NEGATIVE in any way!!

Unfortunately, RR isn't a place for honest criticism. When you ask for crit here even on a mediocre picture it's treated like a competition finalist, instead of getting the truth - and that's even when the real truth is that you should have posted a different picture. If you post the same picture on other sites, it gets slated and you get told it's crap..... at least there's some honesty instead of a constant fear that a negative comment will OMG actually alienate someone, or make them feel bad.....

You can't use viewings as a guide, either. You don't have to post GOOD pictures, just POPULAR pictures. ie, ones with a popular name under them. That's probably why we see so many thumbnails with just text getting loads of hits when decent pics are once again ignored.

OK, you can say it's me just being negative coz I want to - no doubt some of you will feel that - but hey, I'm just saying what I see and feel.

Your favorite Psycho Troll. EDIT : I'm working back over the last coupla days posts and just saw the one about Brenda's image. Small world, I guess.

Message edited on: 04/10/2005 05:33

I don't allow ratings but do rate something I really like, but have lately stopped doing that also.

LOL!!! Hes back!!!! To brighten our days once again with his positive attitude...woooohoooo for you Mike #:op

DITO MICHELLE.....

i still see plenty of honest opinions & comments in the gallery, no one forces you to "play the game"

anything you would have to offer in improving an image Sylvaine would be worthwhile... your knowledge & experience speaks for itself people need to realize these are only suggestions & not always correct... you choose to take it or leave it... at least they took the time to look & try to say something noteworthy or maybe just to say hi, luv your work... & yes... sometimes nothing comes to mind to say... paralyzed... & you end up repeating what so many have already said... most of us communicate with images better then words anyways there are some real art minded people here i enjoy interacting with... i honestly LIKE looking & the sharing of ideas, visions & vistas ...if i didn't i wouldn't be here (guess this goes back to the other thread of losing our best members)

If i may, i would like to add a little thing...i suppose ive become one of those "popular names" as some of you put it. I am fully aware that i get plenty of comments on account of the fact that i take time to comment on other peoples work. I do that because i like to comment and i like to encourage people...i am NOT (as many here seem to think) fishing for comments in return. I wont lie and say i dont care if i get comments or not because they mean a great deal to me. They dont even have to be about the photo i uploaded, i get just as happy just receiving a simple "Hello" or "have a great day"....as Cindy said, just the fact that people take their time to view and type something about whatever they want is really rewarding for me. Constructive critizism is superb and all....but for me the encouragement i get from all those who take their time to comment on my work is what really has made me grown.....cause i have....havent i? At least i think so. And by looking at all those amazing photos that are out there i always learn something new. If i see something that i think could have been improved i either send the artist an IM or i wrap it in as softly as i can. People react differently to critizism so better do it gently. Im getting quite fed up with these kind of discussions that has beeen flying around lately. And what is funny to me is that, those who starts complaining often compare this site to someother that according to them has such a better system...bla bla bla...what i cant understand is why not leave this place then??? Why feel the need to bring the rest of us down with their bitterness??? Seeing this has become quite a long reply id say that i just threw my 10 euros in....i probably didnt make any sense though..being swedish and all...bla bla...finally i would just like to add this....I LOVE THIS PLACE!!! And i have made some amazing friends here, so i aint leaving until you drag me out....which you might now though...sigh...

I think ReBorneUK has put it the best here. It's not the quality of the photo people are looking at, rating, and even commenting on. It's moreso the subject & WHO posted it.

I post on other galleries & like the fact that I get HONEST critiques & how to improve upon them. Do that on here with some of the people & look out.... While here, I get such comments as "nice shot." I appreciate the fact that those people took the time to comment- dont get me wrong, but I'd like to know why they found it to be a nice shot.

RR could save themselves a lot of server space by doing a couple things. One is to drop how many viewings a photo has. I look today and there is a photo of a cats paws that has more comments (and about 4 times as many viewings)than mine has viewings and although it doesnt bother me too much- I just wonder what the hell a lot of people on here consider art? Also they can save space for the ratings by just leaving the "excellent" rating available. Why not? Thats all any image ever seems to get on here anyways. I still receive about 1 or 2 IM's or e-mails A DAY that comment on my opinions here where the artist is getting discouraged cause of this crap.

I feel just leave the comments on here and have a rating system as if they (the comments) are helpful or unhelpful. Do away with the ratings & the number of views.

Nice one, Moose - first rule, don't agree with me, it puts you in the dog-house. Psycho Troll btw, I deleted the last post accidentally instead of clicking edit and couldn't be bothered to re-type it all. Not least coz it would involve actually using my brain again.

Good thinking!!! Dont wanna push that brain to far. Just use it once a day, works for me. #:op

For those of you who missed what Rebourne said- pretty much what I said- but better.

thanks Andreas... you said it well i'm not out to win a prize... i've spent an incredible amount of my time in helping others & a lot on my own photography art & i think it shows i take pride in my work & do believe there's quality to be had in the gallery... i have no time left for quantity & this all leaves me feeling rather sad there's just no satisfying everyone here any site-wide suggestions or changes should be posted in the community center

Dear me, no wonder the world is in a state. I have got to the age of 63 without ever being rated as good at anything before and I don't really need it now. By the sounds of all this I must be the happiest person in RR, and why? Because I just don't care about any of this. I am just so pleased that someone will come and pass a comment whether false or otherwise and if the want to rate me so be it and if not, well that's absolutely fine. I really love to be here as I have spent the last 12 months in almost complete isolation. I joined because I craved contact and the enjoyment of seeing the work of others. Why don't you all enjoy life like me and Andreas (Zacko) and get on with it? Keep the rating system it's a damn good laugh. Woooooo!!! Weeeeee!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaahh!!!!!! Lets all have a nice week eh Andreas #:o

You betcha!!!! Im having a blast at this place, ive made some amazing friends in here and gotten the opportunity to improve my game and see some breathtaking art that has inspirered me greatly. I have also gotten lots of help whenever i asked for it. I will have to give some more credit to Cindy for that....and once again thank you for helping me out with that "muzzle", LOL. Cheeeeeeeers folks!!!!!!

See what You started Tom?....however...You are a Forum Member and are always ready to help and play:] I see Names here that only turn up when there is something negative going on...the Usual Suspects that do very little Photography and are here for other reasons. Good on those that are happy...and those that are not happy...put Your Head in the Oven....and try and get a Photo... You may even contribute something to the Forum in Your demise....have a nice Day :]

@##$ just wrote a a massive reason for the reason of disabling rankings... and grrrrrrr lost my connection.. now l cant be bothered.. peace to you tom... :)...)..l was once ranked to school prefect and hockey captian and was a head of the imps in brownies at the age of 7/8...does that help... no seriously...just a contented soul who doesnt need ranking... hugss to all... :).. nikki

Been there done that, learnt it was a trade and stopped. All I want is honest and constructive comments. Its ok to tell me that my work is good or bad, but I would like justification of the comments. Not going to go any further than that.

For all the bad there's a lot of good here too...... I've made friends that I cherish, and I still get to see lots of wonderful photography..... It's pretty much a given that the gallery is not a place for critiques, but I do still give them, when I have the time or think the person will appreciate them..... sometimes I would like to say something constructive but I am afraid of hurting the person's feelings. For example there's one person in particular (they must be fairly new, because I don't recognize the name) who is uploading wonderfully composed images, yet they are blurry as all hell, the quality is atrocious and everyone (who appear to be friends, it would seem) who has commented is telling them how wonderful they are.....!!! Is everyone blind? Is not one of this persons friends willing to speak up? I've been tempted to say something, but I don't want to burst anyone's bubble.... they obviously, based on the comments think they are super-duper photos.... sigh And contrary to what Misha said, it isn't about being superior to anybody. I think, Misha, that you have a lot to offer in the way of knowledge. At the risk of sounding like a snot, I'm no dummy when it comes to photography, I've worked damn hard to learn what I know!!... Offering critiques is trying to help someone else learn, to pass on the knowledge and the joy..... there are a few folks in the gallery who could use some help with composition, and obtaining better quality, etc..... I've been here so long that I just ignore the things that I think are silly.... like the rankings and the silly "V"s, and all that, and yes sometimes even the comments ..... sometimes, I just stay away for a few days until I feel better.....

Well said Michelle. Zacko.... you expressed yourself in ways how I feel too. This place is only what we all make it. Hope you all enjoy the coming week. Tedz is right about some people only posting in here when there is negativity. If you all make it to my age...lol, you will realize negativity is such a wasted emotion. Such a totally useless portion of ones life. Yep cynlee...a lot of us do communicate better with an image than words.

When I first started posting here like 4 years ago, I have to admit!, I was comment obsessed and thought WHY is THAT artist is getting MORE comments than ME? It was a major EGO thing for me. Being a newbie at the time, I wanted acceptance and couldnt get over some of the stuff I saw being commented on. I was always askin myself, WHY,WHY,WHY?!?!?!? It quickly dawned on me that I was being really stupid! WHO AM I anyways, to have this elitist type attitude towards fellow artists! It sure wasnt gettin me anywhere. It was just getting IN THE WAY of being CREATIVE and holdin me BACK from SHARIN. Soooo, I changed the way I thoughtgrew up! Simple as that! Like many others, I came to the conclusion awhile ago that the ratings thing was pretty worthlessso I disabled it! WE should ALSO have the ability to disable voting in our galleries too! I for one dont care if my images end up in the HOT 20. Actually, I rarely visit the HOT 20 anywaysWHAT is the intention of THIS anyways? Commenting is another story. If even one person takes the time to make a comment, I know Ive touched that someone in someway. THAT means A LOT to me! I do the same when I want to show appreciation for an artists work or an image GRABS my attention! The galleries are for the most part being used as intended. SHARIN' our art/images and views of the world! Are they perfect, not by a long shot? They could definitely use some improvements, like the ability to EDIT a comment! How about the ability to CLEAR comments when an image gets replaced with an updated version? This would avoid confusion, when a comment may refer to the ORIGINAL image that was posted!) One area I dont feel the galleries are really geared towards is CRITIQUING images. Since they are more publicly viewed, I feel people shy away from honest to good feedback! Everyone takes/views things from a different perspective and with Renderosity being a globally accessed site, there is somewhat of a language barrier! Not everyone types English well. (Hell, even I dont) Words can be translated or jumbled in the wrong way, giving off the wrong impression than originally intended. Theres also the fear of retaliation if you do offer creative criticism, even if the artist WANTS it. A friend or other member may take offense to your comment and then YOU end up gettin ANOTHER kind of feedback (the unwanted kind). To me, THIS forum seems the best FIT for this kind of thing for now! Until another solution presents itself or is made available! HEY... HOW ABOUT SOME KIND OF PHOTO-FORUM... OPEN HOUSE?!?!?! Make the members more aware that this place exists! (Just an idea!) Ok.... thats all I've got to say for NOW! (WHEW) L8r! Joe

as most of you may or may not have noticed, I haven't posted any images as of late or very few. When I do post, it is here in the forum and not for the gallery. I feel that I get a more honest evaluation in the forum when I ask for it. If I feel it is a significant image, I'll post it on my member page thingie. I'm not here to collect brownie points, I'm here to become a better photographer. So to me, all of the "excellents" and all the "rankings" don't teach me anything, but things like, "try one f-stop lower in this light condition" or something like that does teach me something, so that is where I place value....but that's just me.

On the terms of true critiques.... Take a look at another photo gallery online (www.photosig.com) and see how critiques are really given. These are constructive I have found and maybe some should take a look at that site to see what a critique is. Ive posted on there and learned how to improve my skills by the given comments. Also, it's a great place for ideas for photos- they don't have the major influx of "scrapbook-type" photos.

Can't argue with the quality that gets uploaded to photosig, and while it's been a while since I've been there, I saw the usual "family album quality" images too, maybe not in great quantity but they do get them too. In the time that I had spent there I found that many people were fixated on collecting points and worried about their rankings.....the whole thumbs up, thumbs down, ranking on critiques given crap really bothers me. Personally I feel that no matter where you go there will always be those who view it as a big competition. It isn't just here at RR. But yes I do agree you will get real critiques there, and the attitude is far more serious about photography.

That's my main reason on posting there- when I want a true critique. I dont care about the points & all- just want the knowledge.

@Sylvaine: speaking of which, I'm still waiting for an answer from u dear! I suggested that u could do on my image what u thought would make it better and then send it to me so I could see what u meant but u didn't answer me and deleted ur previous comment in my gallery, replacing it by a much shorter one, without the advice u gave me in ur first one and I'm still wondering why the hell u did that for?? Maybe there was a misunderstanding there or something?? I REALLY wanted to know!!! As for the ranking stuff, I disable it too and don't use it on other people's images. I used to, and realize that it was useless indeed! And Mikey, so nice to see u back darling! :D

Yikes! I simply do not know how to rate this thread! Lots of views, that is certain. One thing about "Rosity is that beginners as I was when started were not "humm humm" nosed down and intimidated off the site. So, I am not great but am better. I can't that help on a "snapshot site" or on one of ivory tower rules and attitudes. There is always someone, generally lots of "someones" better and a lot worse. I have found the forum the best place to get good honest criticism of late..so I do start to post more images there. On the gallery I take a chance on my own judgment come what may. In technical aspects critical ground is firmer but in artistic merit sometimes it is like a piece of jewelry I make. One person loves it..the client..others walk by and wonder what in the hoot "that is"..funny sometimes. What wins awards in jewelry(my field) or photography often is not marketable to the masses. That is a good sign.

Well as I always say...if you want true critique and ratings...start your own website.Keep an eye on your stats and how many people comment in your form or whatever means of contact you have. It would be the same as opening your own buisness. You are good when you have clientelle.No use selling everything to your friends and relatives. This topic gets dragged around to death. No matter what steps we take to improve it for everyone,there will be something else come up. I suggest post your images...as it is a free place.Share them with all the other people who admire them. What is better than that for someone with a lesser skill to see something that they can go and try out.

dBgrafix, you make a good point here: "I suggest post your images...as it is a free place.Share them with all the other people who admire them. What is better than that for someone with a lesser skill to see something that they can go and try out. " The most I have learned is from two directions, the first is from constructive criticism. The most valued is the second: Comparison of my images with similar submissions from others. I look at the galleries of those who comment on my images and while some are worse many are much better with similar images. This gives me direction and something "to see" in comparison. Two dummies patting eachothers backs does no growth ensue. Getting a really good pic to see DOES show how far to go and still leaves plenty of room for self direction. I appreciate your comment a lot. (ps, working with the public as I do, those whose business depends on relatives, friends or "we like to work with people" will soon enough starve.)

me...i care about making good photographs.

i don't care about ranking, voting, and comments. well, i do care about comments in that i WANT them!!!! but i don't mind what people say...whatever the image makes them feel or think, they can critique it...anything! i'm just happy for people to leave whatever comments they want. if want more critiques, i'll come here.

i'm just a really laid back person most of the time guys, and just like having fun at whatever i do!!!

if the day comes that i don't have fun here anymore, i guess i'll leave. 'till then, where's the damn party guys???? :) ::) :)

didn't ANYONE set up the volleyball net while i was gone?
and i don't see food and drinks. wassup with you guys anyway???

Let's have us some FUN!!!!!!!!!!!

Message edited on: 04/10/2005 23:51

Hehe!! Sheila, I couldn't agree more!! That's exactly what I feel about all this!! I don't even argue anymore cos it does my head in! It's not what I'm here for! I just wanna learn and have fun!! Yep! U said it girl! ;)

I fail to understand the preoccupation with what people post and how they rank/comment. This is not a professional organization, but an open community, without credential requirement. Home to novices such as myself, some with great talent and a few who over esteem their talent. Certainly it contains social subgroups, contains members who are humble and a few who are pretentious... those who are generous with their comments (for whatever reason), those who offer serious comments, and those that just can't be bothered. Maybe a less talented photog actually thinks a mediocre shot is great. Maybe some are just being kind to encourage those who are learning. So what? Where's the crime or sin? We're all free to view or not, comment/rank or not, accept comments/rankings or not. I fear the only thing this does is detract from a great place for a bunch of photographers to share their work and "hang out", regardless of their talent, ability or motives. I suggest it might help to re-read the definition of a communty.

1 : a unified body of individuals: as a : STATE, COMMONWEALTH b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location
2 : society at large
3 a : joint ownership or participation b : common character : LIKENESS c : social activity : FELLOWSHIP d : a social state or condition sounds good to me! :]

This should almost end with that statement b2amphot! That is similar to what I see in the galleries. I would have liked saying those words,but my head and my hands cannot do that sometimes. You know that qupote up there... Two dummies patting eachothers backs does no growth ensue. What is a dummie?...a manequin to me. Of course they will never grow. But two people no matter what skill level,they are people.Could be they are the happiest go lucky in their own world. Even the smartest of people can learn from the least of educated. I am not saying this forum should not be proffesional,but as I have seen in my time here, there is only a handful of forum contributors who make a living at photography. I cherish that, as I learn more about the hobby I love. But also believe in those on an equal level sharing all the new found info around. Sure is nice seeing WIPs with the settings and methods used. Makes for good tutorials,no matter who posts it.

@TibetUK....I answer you immediately....and you dont give me another feedback...so next day I delate the comment...sorry I suppose the internal mail did not work...I always answer a question...Now its too late...I'm no more in the mood....PS : love your choice of hands....Have a nice day....Sylvaine

OK, Tedz, everyone knows your comment was specifically aimed at me, why not actually say so - coz that's flaming, innit? I might be negative and generalise, but YOU can't seem to get past MY comments and have to post a whole comment aimed at ME? - I don't know whether to be flattered or wonder when you're gonna let this one-man tirade drop..... don't you realise that people can look at what your doing and see it's exactly the sort of thing that you whinged about ME doing?!? Yeah, your comment was really positive and constructive to the forum, wasn't it? As for not posting, well, isn't that the right of everyone here? I didn't realise we had to post to every thread YOU want us to. This place is a democracy, I can choose not to post my pictures in the same way that you choose to post pictures of yourself with paint. I guess we're both examples of two different extremes, the only difference is I'm quite happy to get a life away from the computer every now and then or just sit back and have a pleasant read of the posts. As for the Oven comment - that is just SICK and totally OFFENSIVE. To even insinuate that ANYONE should consider suicide at the whim of another.... you have just managed to lower yourself to a level that is nothing short of repulsive. Now please, just grow up - if you want to crit me, fine, I can take it, but at least have the brassics enough to use my name instead of tacky 'Names' references. (",)

come on guys... a simple question was asked in peace why some like rankings and some dont.. from the orginal message.. quoted quite plainly.. peace... yes debating a topic some times is essential if positive contructive criticism is at the forefront, of which yes l see some.. for me briefly reading through peoples opinions b2amphot hits the nail on the head.. If any one is looking for a perfect set of people a perfect forum a perfect community good luck... may be as suggested set up your own.. For me l dont rank my own photography.. when joining was amazed some one actually commented let alone ranked.. over the last nine months truly met a whole new bunch of fantasic people.. some so willing to advise and help... not just advise encourage and support..well not writing this as a self bio... just.STOP negective criticism.. it just tears down.. not just your selves but more sensitive peoples within the gallery... any way peace to all... and thanks to those guys in here who have been there... any one ever suggested a naughty corner for randon ding o the lugs... as we say hear in norfolk.... hugs all.. your the best..Nikki

G'day JordyArt,ReborneUk...Mikey.....and of course Phyco Troll...there Your Name is in Lights....and if You put as much effort into Photography as You did in Ranting...You might get some where....now everyone knows the Comment is specifically aimed at You....why not hold another Popularity vote...or....show Us YOUR Medication on Your Simon Says. flick goes the Lighter ...there...You have been Flamed... feel better...pokes out virtual tongue