Somebody have told me that CL allows the use of the word Poser if its a store. They just want a cut of the cake in that situaation. Maybe it was a no because they couldnt make any money out of us. Dunno, but still; it dont change a thing in our end...:-)

Skygirl, you should hold a little forum competition for a new site name : I'll go first - "Poseable-Polygon-Super-Fantastic-Free-Site" best wishes, your freebies were awesome Cheers

Thanks bigjobbie and after your name suggestion I guess a cometition is not nessesary...poseable-polygone-super-fantastic-free-site is a born winner LOL

no probs, my pleasure! heheh

I still think "coolerpros" is a swell name. lol

Ardiva, I think so too.

Trademarks MUST be defended or they can be lost through "dilution". That dang Cooler is right again. Re xerox, kleenex, etc. Every professional writer used to learn that when you use the word 'kleenex' in a short story or novel, you would get a letter from Kimberly-Clark telling you to stop it, because if kleenex becomes widely used as a common noun (i.e. dilution), it will not be defendable as a trademark, a trademark which is worth a lot to its owners.

Now let me get this straight: Skygirl decided to ask CL for permission after the domain name was registered and the site was up? CL said no, because it was free stuff, but CL said that if it was store it was OK? But then CL wanted a percentage of revenues? Or have I misunderstood.

You have misunderstood :-) CL never said it was ok if it was a store site. Something indicated that they maybe would have allowed it if it was a store site (you can read the mails from CL over at RFI), but they never said so...:-) And yes the domain was registered and the site was up when we found out we had to ask permission...we actually didnt knew that using the word poser was a problem...

Thank you for the clarification, Skygirl. If I could ask one more question (as a guy who has a commercial site in the works and my be planning another one), what made you, after getting the site up, suspect that the name might be a problem? Or that you had to ask permission?

(Have joined xfx-3d to read the emails.)

Message edited on: 03/12/2005 20:07

Over at PoserPros thebert told in a thread that he have started up a new site called Posermaxx. Questor told him to ask permission from CL to use the word poser. Then I thought Kleopetra and I had to do the same....:-)

Thanxx Skygirl!!! You and this thread have been very informative to me!

No prob. Anything to prevent other from ending up in the same silly situation :-)

"Trademark protects a word, symbol, logo, etc, within a specific industry." Example - a car Made by Chevy, a very well known Italian arms maker and a small, beannie like hat all have the same name "Beretta"

Um, ........ did you forget the TV show? ;=]

Doc, That would be "Baretta"

Oh, well, ....... NSG spells it "Beretta." (he's not allowed in "bar's") ;=]

I recieved a email today from CL

"We are working on the Trademark issue relating to Poser. Once we come to a better solution, we will let you know. I expect to have an answer later this week."

waiting to see. "Better solution"

thebert

This is really not a good time for Curious Labs to retroactively decide that web sites should not use the word "Poser." They're liable to hurt sales of Poser 6.

Extract: "This is really not a good time for Curious Labs to retroactively decide that web sites should not use the word "Poser."" Comment: Hmmm. The only people saying that (or, more accurately, implying that) are people outside of Curious Labs. Strikes me as a case of over reacting to someone else's breathless bull

I have posted this in the merchants forums and as many of you won't have access I put it here too. ---------------------------------------------------------- Curious Practices - to sell or not to sell Many of you will know me, or at least of me. Many of you have purchased my products at Renderosity, my own website, even on Ebay. I have provided content for Poser for around five years now. I was one of Renderosity's first merchants in the Marketplace. As far as my products go, well some of you like them, some don't, such is life, but I feel confident that none of you think that any of them are illegal, and indeed they are not. That is why, a few weeks ago, I was shocked to be informed by Ebay that certain of the CD-ROMs of my Poser content were being removed from their listings. Of course I immediately queried this and was told to get in touch with the intellectual rights owner to sort it out. Now I was even more confused because the intellectual rights owner is actually me. Anyway, after reading through Ebay's emails again I discovered that my accuser was none other than Curious Labs. It seems that they use a third party company for their anti-piracy. It seems that this company, Internet Copyright Enforcement run by a Mike Watso, otherwise known as NukePirates.com, thought I was selling pirate copies of Poser. So I emailed them to let them know the disc only containes content for Poser, not Poser itself. True to most companies form they never replied. I tried Curious Labs instead, through their Contact Us form on their Website. In a matter of a few hours a person whom I only know as Fish had the whole mess sorted out. They said sorry, assured me it wouldn't happen again and that was an end to it. Fair enough. I relisted my discs, sold several and relisted them again. Sunday 17th April. Ebay email to say that they have again removed my sitings and this time locked my account. What had happened, yes you guessed. They assured me it would never happen again, but it had. Once again Mike Watso had dropped the ball and expected me to catch it. This time I didn't even bother emailing him first. This time I sent a rather bristly email, complete with completely understandable four letter rant, to my old friend Fish. Who immediately apologised. Sorry? Sorry wasn't good enough this time. Once can be forgiven, but this time my account was locked, my good name had been besmirched and I was losing sales at Ebay. Finally I appealed Ebay's decision and fired an email off to NukePirates.com Fish was very sympathetic, after hearing that I needed him to contact Ebay he straightaway set about the job. Infortunately in vain. What happened their I doubt I will ever know. Meanwhile Mike Watso sent me an email, claiming I had breached a copyright by using the words Poser and Store in my product description. Quote: We had originionally had your auction cancelled for a copyright infringement on using the POSER STORE name on your auction site. :End Quote I sent Fish a second email to query this, does Curious Labs own the copyright to those two particular words. For nearly five years I have called my website PoserStore, until recently I had the domain name PoserStore.com (now pdblake.com) registered. If I remember correctly even Daz3D use the name on their site, or at least used to. Fish never responded, I'm still waiting for a reply. It could be the fact that I mentioned the 'C' word, compensation for closing me down for four days (and counting), dragging my name through the mud and basically running me around in circles for the last few days, of it could be that he/she's busy checking on the legality of that copyright claim. Personally I think the claim is rubbish. If it's not then there are going to be an awful lot of locked websites and stores before long. Now, I could get my ebay account reinstated apparently, by admitting guilt and promising not to break the law again. As I have done nothing wrong, then I refuse to do this. Ebay can stick their account. I also doubt I will get very far with any compensation claim, I just don't have the money to fight with. What really worries me is this, if they can do this to me, someone who has supported their product for so long, then they can do it to you too, and not bat an eye lid about it.

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/link/category/7?sbss=308

pdblake, In lieu of a response from Curious Labs I can at least answer this question (see also my other replies in this thread)... "does Curious Labs own the copyright to those two particular words" No. Words, titles, short phrases, etc. cannot be protected by copyright. Tney can, however be protected as a trademark.

Message edited on: 04/21/2005 15:32

Attached Link: US Patent & Trademark Office.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=t6a3ho.2.6 That doesn't seem to mention Curious Labs, just some German company. Or am I not looking at it right:)

EGIsys owns Curious Labs

Or rather Owned... Hrmmm.. That means the Trademark is not up to date.

OK. Looks like the word Poser is Trademarked. Now it's time for the English majors to come up with the derivitives. Poserism shouldn't be a problem, it's an adjuctive. Poser by it's trade mark is a noun. Poserology is another good one...the study of poser.

"That means the Trademark is not up to date. " I'm not really up on US law, being English. But does that mean that it's not valid, or doesn't it matter?

Just another thought, if Poser is trademarked to EGIsys who no longer own Curious Labs, then the trademark does not belong to Curious Labs. Does that mean that Curious Labs are in breach of the trademark?

No. A transfer of trademark can occur.

Well the last time all this came up I suggested we refer to this program as "the app which shall not be named" You could always cll your store DAZ Studio store, I'm sure DAZ would love the publicity :)

Right. God, what a confusing business:)

That would be entertaining, sue them for being in violation of their own trademark.

::mutters under breath:: Hey Bro, I think it's time we go back to lurking...

Confusing Yes, but CL may just shoot they own foot. If They are not stoping site or groups from using the "Poser" they can lose the trademark or if the "Poser" becomes a verb like "can you xerox, this paper" and if they do try a stop the communities from using "Poser" the basksash may hurt them in the bottm line. Also with site like Poser World, Poser Pros and other being around for years, they may have already lost the trademark on "Poser".

Bert, You are so wrong about that one.. PoserPros, Poserworld, and any sites ofthat magnitude went the correct route years ago... They ASKED for permission...

"computer programs for digital rendering of images and printed articulation, including graphics and image creation" So, were any of these sites selling a competing product, i.e. a computer program (content is NOT a program) for digital rendering of images and printed articulation, including graphics and image creation? In other words, was anyone else selling a 3D animation or 2d paint program called 'Poser'? If not they are not in any trademark violation* *(unlike the Puck figure in the Renderosity store that continues to violate our trademark on 'Puck' as a name for Poser content, specifially an original figure--which we might note Renderosity has continued to refuse to do anything about, apparently because they don't understand trademark laws and don't have anyone who does, as JeffH claimed at one point that the name 'Puck' could not be trademarked, though it has in fact been trademarked by several companies for completely other things.)

::disabling e-mail notifications::

Unlike Copyright, you must go through the process of Paperwork for Trademark Protection. So, if you have received Trademark Protection for Puck as a 3D Mesh Figure, then you have recourse, if not, you have none.