I posted awhile back about wanting a basic default poser. I found a friend who made a few for me. This is my first try at painting one. I would appreciate your comments. I had a hard time doing the folds in the fabric, but I think with practice I will get better. Anyway, any thoughts you have would be appreciated. I have just placed this on a temporary background. Lamb

Well, I am not usually one to make such comments because I can't paint much better than a 6-year-old. But, if "forced" to comment, I would say, over all, it has sort of a "flat" feeling to it. It doesn't possess enough "depth". Maybe someone with more experience and talent than me could offer some tips but all I can think of is the following: Looks like some shadows are missing on the belt (from cloth overhang). The same goes for the feet and ankles (and the character's right wrist. (but maybe you only want comments on the cloth itself) Looks like there are shadows missing on the arms where the brown material runs into the white material. Your shadows, overall, look like they could be a bit darker. It seems to me, when painting, it's OK to exaggerate a bit to make up for things being two-dimensional. I would make the definition more obvious where the robe overlaps. It looks OK above the belt but it lost its "flap" below the belt. Otherwise, your folds look fine to me. I wish I could do as good a job as you have done! Hope you remembered to make your image big. Cheers!

One of the reasons for the 'flat' feeling, is that there doesn't seem to be a direction for the shadows on the robe to be coming from. The base three-dimension figure has a distinct light source from 'above' (check the shadows on the face, chin, hands, and shepard's crook), but the folds of the robe are equally shaded from two sides (right and left) which contradicts the 3D parts. As Chuck said, there needs to be more shading under the robe's edges..onto the elbows, wrists and feet. It is tough trying to shade vertical folds with an overhead light source...would've been easier if the light was off to one side or the other.

Thank you both so much. I did add shadowing to those areas, but I guess it is not enough. I did go pretty light on it and I made the shadows pretty thin. I will pay more attention to that next time and see if I can't correct this. I appreciate you sharing that with me. I agree about the flat effect, but was not sure exactly what it was. Thanks again Lamb

They're spot on with the comments, so I'll only add this tip to help with the shading. You know how you have shaded each fold? Lighter on the parts closest to the camera and darker where the cloth is folded within itself? Well, if you think of the entire robe as one big fold, maybe that will help in the overall shading a bit -- to add depth. I'm not quite sure how else to say it, so I'll just post an example of what I mean. I hope you don't mind, but I did a quick paint over yours. I simply added some shading on the sides of his body, his arms, etc.

Ok, I see what your saying. Thank you and it is fine that you did that. I am working on the shadowing now, and have a good idea what you all are saying. At least I think I do..lol..We will find out when I post it again..lol...Thank you again so much. I appreciate all the input I can get as I am just learning.

Ok, I did some work on it. I don't like how on the bottom, the white cloth, doesn't look like it is wrapping around the body, it looks more like a flap of cloth hanging down. Should I shadow it darker then I have right at the edges? Anymore pointers? Did I go to dark, or not dark enough etc? Thank you for your input. Lamb

That's good definition (in the shadows) you've added. Much better. As to your question about the bottom, take a look at what April did to the white parts on the example posted. The sides of the white areas were shaded. This give the appearence they are wrapping around the body (and thus are out of the source of light).

Ok, thank you. I will go work on this some more. Thanks again. :)

Ok, I think I am happy with it now. Anyother suggestions on anything? Thank you again for all your help.

Awesome! Looking better and better. :) The only tip I have is to make the cloth-on-cloth shadows a little more irregular -- they're uniform right now, so it looks like the outer cloth is spaced evenly away from the inner cloth, when in reality, it wouldn't be. For instance, across the front of his torso, where the edge of his robe overlaps the other side, the shadows would be more wavy -- bigger, softer, and farther from the edge of the cloth when you go toward the shadows of the fold, while sharper and closer to the edge of the cloth when you go toward the highlights of the fold. Let me know if you need me to clarify or post another paint-over -- I'm afraid I did a pretty crappy example of what I mean in the image I posted before. Great revisions, though! It's exciting to watch the progress. :)

I have to agree with April again. It's easy to see once it gets pointed out. It is as if someone has made the outer part of the clothing stay exactly 1 half inch (for example) away from the white part all the way around (when we know in actual practice, we would never see that sort of hang in clothing).

Also, I've added just a touch to a very small detail that I think helps a bit. It bothered me that the extreme left and right edges of the bottome of the robe, the white part, was so bright right on the very edge. So, I touched the left side up (about the only painting I'd ever try wink) to show what I mean. So, on the left, the tiny bright edge is gone and on the right, it is still there.

Also, there look like there are waves/rolls in the lowest part of the white garment, as well, so they should be shaded where appropriate.

I hope I've helped you with your painting. I'm not much of one myself so I hesitate to give advice. I have stepped in here to speak of something I don't know much about because you seem like a very nice person. Hope you keep at it and don't get discouraged.

Cheers!

April, If you wouldn't mind, I got lost in what you mean't but am really interested in knowing. I can't seem to grasp what your saying. I would appreciate if you could clairfy more. Thank you. Chuck, I was not quite sure what you mean't until I compared the left side of mine with the one you fixed. I see that now and that is a big improvement. Thank you. I will address that part. I am still a little lost on the 1 inch part. I am so happy you all are hear. I have never taken any kind of art so this is so new to me, but I love it. Thanks again.

Oh, I do see what your saying about the rolls. They were faint to begin with and somewhere along the line they seemed to disappear, so I need to make them bolder, or rather darker in color.

I'm attaching a paint-over to demonstrate what I mean. Look carefully at the shadows where the folds are -- they follow the contours of the folds. Anywhere that you have shadows, keep in mind where the edges are in space -- further away from where the shadows are or closer? Is the surface where the shadows are flat, or bumpy? How would the shadows fall on a bumpy surface as opposed to a flat surface? I hope the picture explains it because I'm not quite sure how else to say it, but the shadows simply need to be less even and straight. An even better tip is take a piece of cloth and drape it the same way you have it drawn -- then look at where the shadows fall. ;-)

oops. Forgot to tell you that I changed the shadows at the front of the torso and at the waist. I left the sleeves alone, but those should probably be changed, too -- not sure how or how much.

Ok, that explains it. Glad you showed an example. I will work on these areas. Thank you so much April, that gives it a much more realistic effect.

You guys are great! this is the kind of thread i love to see (nothing i can add that April and Chuck haven't hit on already...). i miss this type of post. there is such a vast amount of knowledge in this forum that often gets overlooked. i really appreciate the help you all offer.

thanks again guys,
:)
scott

Well, lamb seems to be one interested in feedback and not "pats on the back". He hasn't gotten upset/angry. From my point of view, that's kinda nice. (just wish I had more info to pass along but April hopped right in there!)

It's the sort of thread I like, too, especially when I was first learning how to paint in Photoshop. I used to start threads just like this one at other digital art communities, and people would give me tips on how to improve a piece. It's amazing how much everyone involved learns -- even those who give tips. By teaching, you learn a little more about the process, so everyone benefits. :)

It is nice to know that you don't mind helping me. Oh, and BTW, I am a she, not a he..lol... Ok, here is another try. I did more then you mentioned, things I thought I should but not sure how they are. Again I appreciate any input. Thank you

Looks great, lamb! :) I would soften the contrast a little between the dark sides and the middle, but other than that I'd say it's about done. :-D For practice with painting lighting, you should get your Poser artist friend to render a few images with different lighting environments -- like with a key light lighting the front right and a rim light lighting the back left, or something as dramatic. This will add depth to your images right from the start and give you a challenge in painting highlights and shadows. ;-)

Ok, I will do that. Is is ok for me to copy your post on the different lighting so I can email it to my friend so he will know exactly what to do on the lights? I think he would understand you more then me if I try to explain. I had another friend who had made some pregnant posers, she was not able to do the clothes so I am giving that a try, but the rest of the work on the poser is hers. Just for practice. I also thought about taking a sheet and throwing it over a chair and trying that. You really have to think about the lights when doing the shadows. I didn't know that but it sure makes a big difference. In the cuff of the hand that is holding the staff, I think I messed up there, but it is easy to correct as it is still all in layers. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all your help. I hope that the next time I post I will have gotten further along on my own, by remembering what you have taught me. Thanks again Lamb

Sure! Copy away. :)

Thank you :)

Attached Link: http://www.imagicarts.com

I am still a beginner when it comes to digital art, so you may want to take my comments with a grain of salt (or what you call it in English ;) I think that the dress is the weakest part. Frequently using oil colors i spontaneously believe that the surface, the texture of the dress could be roughened a bit (quite a lot, actually). I would have constructed a certain texture for the dress (in the "Filters" section), instead of starting with one color. And the folds look too straight and even to me. (Ok, you already knew that.) I wouldn't mind adding a more dramatic shadow; perhaps giving a quite heavy shadow to one side of the character. Finally, I'd add a darker background, or a background with an uneven structure. Hopefully the artificial and watery look would not be there after those adjustments. .. .. .. Oh well, it is easy to talk the talk without having to walk the walk. I am just a beginner.

Hi, I am a beginner too. As far as the background, as I mentioned in the first post, this was just a background for temporary purposes, just for showing here, it will go onto a different background eventually. That is why there are no outside shadows done. As for the other ideas you shared, I will take them into consideration. Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.

Hi lamb ! Following the sucession of your image from the first to the latest I'd say there's a vast improvement. Stelars' comment about creating/constructing a texture for the undercloth and robe is not a bad one at all. I mostly use Photoshop for post work of 3D renders and to add things I don't need/want to spend time modelling. It happends frequently that I see the need to "break up" a surface that have turned out "blank" or too smooth - ie, coloured only. The simple way is to use Filter->Texturizer and experiment with settings in Canvas or Sandstone. If it turns out too strong you can ease it in Edit->Fade nnnnn. ... and that's just one of all the tricks you can use. Sorry for not being able to show you any example, but I'm at work now with only a crappy puter and even worse monitor and no graphics tools what so ever, so i can only support in words ... As for the last image I find only one detail that doesn't look quite logic. The way the robe goes across the chest. The lining takes an upward turn, which kind of defy gravity :-) Wouldn't it be more natural if it took a slight downword direction ? ( Yes, I realise the job to change that, so we'll just let it slide, huh .. ? ) // Sorry for bad spelling and language errors. I'm dyslectic and English is not my native tongue // -- Bakkti --

(smiling) THAT must be fun... dyslexic AND English as an added language. Bravo! Looks fine to me, Bakkti.

Or one could start with a photo of a rough surface to create a random and rich texture. Then copy it and play around with it inm PS ;) (for example texturize it: Filter->Texturizer ). Many trixxs ... little time... ;) Im not a native English speaker... but not lysdectic either .... lol

Ok .. sorry ...

Thank you for telling me that. I admit I did not know how to do that, but that gives me enough idea to start with to play. I have not started on a new project just yet but am thinking on getting ready to. I hope to implement all the wonderful hints you all have given me into the next project. As for how the robe takes the upswing, good point, I didn't see that until you mentioned it. Thank you all and your english and typing skills was more then fine, you made perfect sense to me