Attached Link: http://mke3.net/archives/2005/06/blender_toolbar.html

Brian

I wrote a paper for my HCI class (that's Human Computer Interaction ;) about how blender needed something like this since I can never remember the more obscure shortcuts. It's nice to see that Blender is moving toward a more user-friendly interface, what with the widget thingies in the new version and now this. It's a great program, but there are so many people who never discover what it can do because they try it and then don't use it because the interface confuses them.

I think its mostly that people don't take the time to learn the program. Every program functions differently, and Blender is no exception. You can speed through tasks that in other programs would take double, even triple the time, because blender's shortcut system is very well designed and everything has a shortcut. The thing I like about the toolbar is that I could setup a modeling toolbar, and not have to move my hands across and around the keyboard to use certain functions, or even worse go into a submenu to find a tool (python perhaps) I can assign it and then click it. Hope this and the improved user interface make it to the next version. Brian

haloedrain, "It's a great program, but there are so many people who never discover what it can do because they try it and then don't use it because the interface confuses them." Yup. Me.

Nicholas86, "I think its mostly that people don't take the time to learn the program". I spent some year trying to learn it. "Every program functions differently". Yes, C4D is far easier although very powerful:P I finally moved to it back since I couldnt learn Blenders interface [especially that nasssty material editor] without help [forum help is not enough for me despite all your efforts, theres nothing like sb just next to you]. I wish you good trip through your fantasy worlds-with Blender [or other small appliance:P]. Maybe we will meet again... when Blender gets another interface. I saw a post in the wiki stating Blender should get a second intface that could be choosen at start. Right idea, I hope there will be sth like this in the 3.0:)

Oh I have nothing against people who can't get past the interface, but I know that 3 years or so ago, I was saying the same thing until I pushed myself into using Blender. I wouldn't say that C4D is easier, you just grasped it personally faster, and it works more with your mindset. Good luck with your $600 package ;) I believe the next version should have some interface improvements, though not sure, I expected them with this version. I don't think the interface needs improvement, but it attracts people to the software, since everyone seems to hate the interface. I think its just not a "standard" design, so people shy away from it. Brian

pressing spacebar does bring up menus so whats there to moan about? only thing is that the help file doesnt work in the program always get python error.

Nicholas86: I have good luck with my $0 package:) It was a free cover CDon some computer magazine. Although it was 5yr old that time, its still great. I particularly like the material editor and renderer:) The modelling tools are less comfortable than in Blender but still useful. ysvry: I used spacebar menu all the time. I meant the general idea of the interface, the spacebar menu cant help much with texturing. In theory, everything is just on its place... when you finally find it:) But I mean the effort I have to take to get reasonable results is far less in C4D. This is crucial for a beginner!

Haha, Noobs... "pressing spacebar does bring up menus so whats there to moan about?" You forgot my favorites, the edit mode's W and K hotkey menus, those are also really usefull, as well as the just typing in a precise value/axis select hotkeys instead of using the mouse when you're doing a transform function.

Who is moaning? Anyway, I think the toolbar will be very useful. Its a nice idea to be able to have a floating toolbar of common used functions all in one section. And who are you calling a noob Esoteric? Can you elaborate on what you mean by saying that? Brian

Nicholas86, I was mainly referring to FranOnTheEdge and Silgrin. I just can't help but chuckle everytime I read replies from those two (in various threads here) when they are griping and whatnot about the user interface and whatnot. Sure, something might seem odd with a particular function out of place or whatever, but give Blender a break, it's still in it's teens in some areas. And shut up already about C4D and whatever other 3D programs lol, I mean seriously, no one cares, this is the Blender forum. It's NOT THAT hard. Use your brain. Read The F****** Manual (RTFM), read the release logs in the download section on Blender3D's site, and look at the tutorials and videos on Blender3D's site (there's links in Blender's help menu, sheesh...)

Anyway, as for the topic, anything that improves the productivity rate is a good thing, so don't get me wrong, I am too looking forward to this toolbar thing. It looks mighty interesting. I also read something that this toolbar is just a first step to building on Blender's already good customization features, like more UI stuff and custom hotkey bindings and other goodies I think. I forgot where I read it, I think in the latest Blender Developement Digest forum thread on the cgtalk.com forums.

I still prefer hotkeys though over anything, because they rule! lol

Message edited on: 06/10/2005 02:31

EsotericFury,

Great thanks for your last post. Id never come to that brilliant idea of Reading The F****** Manual (RTFM)! Where is it? Dont say it`s on the Blender pages! :P

Actually, I even bought the Polish translation of it. If I say Blender is more difficult for me, I mean that its more difficult to learn it using its documentation than to learn a given application (AGA) using AGAs docs. Do you really imagine I just try to work the interface out w/o any text? I`m afraid you overestimate my skills :P

Btw, congrats for choosing right nick.

Message edited on: 06/10/2005 02:40

The F****** Manual (RTFM) is a load of cr*p.

he he right fran give it to them lol

Actually the manual is quite good guys. One of the few good program manuals I've seen. Give it some more time and go slowly through it.

Brian

Message edited on: 06/12/2005 00:29

Thanks Brian! Yes the manual is very helpful. It takes time to learn any program. Let's please keep it civil in here, folks. That's the only way anyone will learn.

Well I said it much more politely originally (a goodish while back, when I first downloaded both prog and manual) but I got riled, and if people are gonna swear at me, I just copied those words and added my twopennorth. I think I've about run out of angst on this.

Mind you I dunno what went wrong, I'd unchecked this thread on "Notify" just after replying and still got an email...

Oh well, perhaps it's just as well - I didn't really want to stop coming here, I get some good tips now and then from here, and you can do some amazing stuff with Blender... notice I said YOU, not me.

ggg OOps, I meant to say sorry for swearing too, sorry.

Message edited on: 06/12/2005 05:05

Just give it time. Keep at it and eventually one day you and Blender will click. I'd suggest trying out each part of Blender. And seeing if there is something you just get. Be it modeling, texturing, sequencer, animating...
Thats how I got started, I found modeling so intuitive and fast, and it just kept clicking from there. Glad you still frequent the forum. Keep coming and keep trying to learn.

Brian

Message edited on: 06/12/2005 05:36

Eh? I thought I posted this, but it's gone? Ok, well I just copy and paste it again, good thing I like to use notepad for posts, sometimes I just don't trust the way this site works.
Keep it civil? I was only joking, sorry if I offended anyone.
The RTFM thing is an old joke btw.

Where is it? Don't say it's on the Blender pages!

2.3x Printed Guide:
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/default.php?cPath=21

2.3x Free HTML version:
http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=documentation&file=index

Supplemental Info for new Blender versions info/new features:
http://blender3d.com/cms/Releaselogs.34.0.html

(Don't use the link from within the Blender program for the html guide, for some reason the link is wrong, it points to an outdated revision of the html, and it only points to the first part I think, not parts 1 AND 2. The Part 2 Reference is just as important as part 1, if not more. They probably forgot to update the links in the Blender program.)

Message edited on: 06/12/2005 14:48

In my opinion, Blender is not so hard to learn. I learn the basics in ~ two weeks, reading the two beginners manuals and follow the tutorials. And Elysiun is a great place for ask questions! (Recently I bought the printed official guide, it is excellent!) I don't want the toolbar because the shortcuts and the interface are excellent!

hehe..well thats why you don't need the toolbar. I personally think its an excellent resource, and pressing a three button shortcut is slower then clicking a button.

Brian

It was a joke. I got it in both versions-downloaded and print [it was just translated]. Modeling tools are really nice but what I got stuck with was the material editor. Maybe some missing key hit... I see that Blender is very "idiomatic" and requires exact learning the procedures for every new feature learned [which I hate;] so I have to post messages every time I start a new part in my project. And this is why I grumble at it since other apps usually use the same logic or "algorhithm" for every part so learning modeling prepares to learn texturing, etc. In Blender I`m always a beginner.

@Nicholas86: VERY rare you must press more than 2 buttons. Clicking on the toolbar - always with a mouse promenade - is slower always! @Silgrin: The print version of the Guide (39 Euro) is not the same version with the download version. You will find everything you want in that book. BDW, what problem do you have with the material editor? When I got stuck with a problem, I asked on Elysiun and always I found the answer!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2267842

I finally got sth resembling wood with cubic mapping, but it was still far from perfection. The thread is under the link, thanks for interest. Maybe I miss some step? Ive heard that in one of 3D programs, objects imported from some formats lack UV coordinates and they need some action to do to receive textures properly, irrespective the type of mapping. Maybe Blender modeling creates some similar issue and I should press some Ctrl-Alt-Shift-... to make them OK? Elements in the same project which were box-modeled dont seem to exhibit this tex problem.

vclaszlo sent me an improved version of my file, the wood looked a better, but even after his help it was very very poor. I simply couldnt get a wooden surface resembling real wood, I got some stripes of brown something [see vclaszlos reply in that thread].

Message edited on: 06/13/2005 03:56

@criss I'm talking about in sequence. But whatever you say man. You are the expert after all.

@Silgrin: I made a render for you: http://criss.site.voila.fr/temp/silgrin.JPG Hope you like it! ;) @Nicholas: I'm not an expert in Blender, I have a lot of things to learn!

Message edited on: 06/13/2005 17:30

VERY rare you must press more than 2 buttons. Clicking on the toolbar - always with a mouse promenade - is slower always! On some things I don't use too much I tend to hit at least 3 buttons trying to find the right shortcut key, like the other day when I was trying to remember hot to add a keyframe (it's i, by the way). I've come to the conclusion that W (for the specials menu) is short for "Where the **** is it??" ;] @Silgrin - I came up with a wood texture that's not half bad a while back, I'd send it to you but I'm 500 miles from my own computer at the moment. I'll be home in a week, I'll try to remember

@criss: Thanks, that cube looks really nice! But what were the settings?

I only load a wood texture (you know the trick CTRL+left click on the LOAD button?) and 'map to cube' the texture. I don't saved the scene but, if you want, I will made another scene (1 min of work :)) and send you the file.

Thx:):) Its madly annoying to get stuck with so stupidly basic things. And this is why I grumble at Bs int`face:P