You might be having problems some problems with Renderosity's newest chick. Seems that they didn't test Renda in P5 or higher, because there are reports of some having morphs that don't work. In P5 and P6 the INJ channels won't be hidden. Thus, when you inject all of the morphs, you will still have channels that won't work because there aren't any morphs for them. The appear to be from a V3 CR2 possibly ? For example, the follwing channels are present in the Renda CR2, but are not listed in the morphs for any Renda package but are in the Internation Beauties package for V3: African1 African2 African3 African4 Asian1 Asian2 Asian3 Asian4 Caucasian1 Caucasian2 Caucasian3 Caucasian4 Caucasian5 Caucasian6 Caucasian7 Eskimo Indian Latina1 Latina2 Latina3 NativeAmer1 NativeAmer2 NativeAmer3 Filipina Polynesian There are INJ channels listed as PBMDC_01, doesn't the DC in that stand for DAZ channel ? Here is an example of JPs from the hip on V3 and Renda origin 0 0.393 -0.005 orientation -0.77246 0.00799924 1.18669 Here is an example from the Abdomen: endPoint 0 0.479 -0.005 origin 0 0.454 0.002 orientation -0.332004 -1.22836e-005 -0.00423532 The Chest, same for both: endPoint 0 0.604 -0.01 origin 0 0.479 -0.005 orientation -2.28516 0 0 Well, there is more, but you get the idea. The good news is that since the proportions fo the figure are very similar and the JPs seem to be the same, V3 clothing should fit with minimal tweaking. :) --Rebekah-- I am glad that I didn't have to buy a copy of Renda, I already have a free copy of V3 somewhere. P.S. I know that some might ask, what is the difference between this and what we did with Lilin L2-V3 ? The differences are that ours was free and we did it at the request of our community of users who wanted a Sixus1 figure that could use V3 clothing. We didn't realize that we were breaking the EULA at the time for the use of similar JPs. What we didn't do was try to jack you good people of of your money. Since we are in the process of pulling our store from Rendo and no longer bring in any money for them, I figure that this post will get me banned. If you need anything, please feel free to visit us at our forums at www.PoserForums.com if you have any questions or just wanna hang.

That is amazing.

Rebekah---your Lilin (i was one of the lucky ones who got her) remains my favorite figure for beauty renders---you do wonderful work & i hope you continue despite everything. & she's prettier than Renda or V3 by far..............

Thanks, I'll tell Les. :) Have you checked out the Project Human female at Content Paradise ? She is Poser ready (and Free), you might like her. We do have somethings in the works that will make clothing her much easier :) --Rebekah--

I was wondering about it but it seems they went even father than I thought. Hmm .. Thanks for the heads up ..

Whoa, That is a little scarry. I was looking at the mesh similarities of the two, and I could use the topo-brush in Silo to trace the main contours of V3, and make my own mesh, based on V3. I could subdivide and tweak a few things, and instant character. I could use the V3Blank cr2 as a dev-rig and bone a new character, using DAZ's JP's, and it should bend like V3, and wear her clothes with little tweaking. Now I know why DAZ has some explicit stipulations in their EULA's. -The Starkdog

Hmmmmm. Remarkable. :)

Fascinating ...

Bookmark

Just ran the two cr2s side by side, in a little prog called Exam Difference (V3sr2 and renda). They are almost identical. There are reams of delta points that are hundreds of lines long and exactly identical. The only real differences are alterations to some of the joint limits and mat spheres. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Cool sounding program....sounds easier than what I was doing. :)

Attached Link: http://www.prestosoft.com/ps.asp?page=edp_examdiff

.

Rendo is in deep $#!T I think. This is worse than Sixus1's infringement for three reasons. One, as stated - Sixus1 developed & advertised Lilin2 as a V3 compatible figure not knowing they were infringing the EULA (given the difference between the wording of the contract and the behaviour deemed acceptable for creating/distributing clothing, this does not stretch the imagination). Second, it was free. They were not trying to rip off the work that went into V3 for themselves, but to allow the community in general to use the masses of free/low-cost V3 clothing on a free (both in terms of money & contracts) figure. Having spoken to Les on the issue a couple of times - he doesn't like the V3 rig or shape. Lilin2 was a gift to the community Thirdly, Rendo HAD to have done this deliberately given the fact that 90% of the "EULA & Lilin2" discussion was held on their boards. Several mods took part in the discussions, with various merchants & VIP's (such as cooler) weighing in on the issue. I know - I started the discussion and am STILL seeing it through to completion (a Developer's Addendum to the EULA). Given the combination of shape & JP's - Rendo HAD to be trying to rip off the work that went into V3. Given the price they are charging too (for a subpar figure), I think "rip off" is the correct term. EK

They forgot to delete the JCM of V3, they are still on Renda cr2 although she doesn't need it. That's why all those lines are identical. At least on the current version of Renda.

Holy sh*t. My jaw is in my lap here.

I thought that sort of thing was illegal. Isn't Renderosity normally quite indignent about copyright violations and warez software. I'm surprised DAZ hasn't spoken up against it. Didn't DAZ get some other model pulled from some little company because someone had copied a foot from Victoria? Is Renderosity that powerful that even DAZ doesn't want to go up against them?

Bookmark

Maybes... Maybe Rosity were not aware of this; after all, they did contract out the modelling. Maybe DAZ aren't aware of it, either. After all, Sixus's model wasn't pulled immediately.

Wow. :o I did mention over at DAZ that I thought it was odd that so many of Renda's morphs and V3's morphs had identical names, but I didn't expect the similarities to run that deep.

I hope you don't get banned Sixus, you're still a very helpful and respected member of the community. I support Renderosity, but if I had discovered this, I would have mentioned it too.

Thanks,

SnowS edit: That's a good point Sam, we shouldn't be quick to blame Renderosity as a whole when the Renda project was apparently a contracted job.

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 20:37

Whoops! Glad I didn't buy her yet. Wonder how this will work out.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Renderosity did this on purpose and my opinion is based on the discussion I've seen in the merchant forum.
I don't know who modeled her and I don't know who is working on this part of her but I don't believe Renderosity is being duplicious.

I do not have Renda, but just out of curiousity, could somebody with Renda try to inject DAZ V3 morphs? Or, try loading a V3 character like Morris' Miss April on Renda? It would be interesting to see that Renda take the morphs just like V3 would. Thanks, -The Starkdog

SnowSultan "we shouldn't be quick to blame Renderosity as a whole when the Renda project was apparently a contracted job."

Whilst it's hard to imagine they DELIBERATELY put an illegal product on the market, under their own name, I don't believe that would hold any water from a legal point of view. Took me two minutes to fire up my little prog and see all the similarities. Out of 58,980 lines in the Renda CR2, there are only 1,452 that are different (in many cases only marginally) from V3's CR2. We're not talking about a handful of identical settings here. Of course, a lot of the lines are not character specific (just headings and that).

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 20:54

just rubbernecking ;)

the v3 morphs don't work on Renda. I just tried it, even though I was 99% sure they wouldn't beforehand. Mesh has to be exactly the same for morphs to work. E.D.

Thanks, E.D.

I was thinking that with the same morph channels, that V3's morphs would carry over to Renda. -The Starkdog

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 20:57

We've seen this happen before, when "new" figures had Daz hands. I think it was Anton who spotted that earlier case. It's a good thing people are still not gullible enough to be fooled. Whoever was in charge of foisting this one on the site has clearly caused a very serious problem for his/her employers.

Won't work, Starkdog. I niether have Renda or V3 but I can bet you pounds to peanuts that they are made from a different mesh. Rendo has stated that the figure is "100% original". Now while the JP's obviously are not 100% original, it would have been caught ALOT sooner should the mesh have been copied. the Unimesh has a look that is quite easy to see once you've seen enough wireframes (& most the merchants here would have seen it a hundred times over). The mesh has to be have the exact same vertex count & ordering for std morphs to work. Magnets on the other hand... I personally DO believe Rendo has been duplicious. From the very beginning Rendo has not cared a whit about what others have said regarding Renda in terms of quality &/or similarities to V3. Combine that with the fact that any real testing/inspection on the the figure's CR2 would have found something in this. If not the JP similarities, the unused channels & superfluous deltas at the very least. The position Rendo has take from the very beginning of this debacle has not been conducive to giving them the benefit of the doubt. At least, not in my opinion. Honest mistakes I can handle and forgive easily. Deception riles me up something fierce. EK

Still beats the heck outta me why anybody'd pay for an ugly V3 clone when the real thing's free.

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 21:00

Hmnmmmmmm...

interesting

"Thirdly, Rendo HAD to have done this deliberately given the fact that 90% of the "EULA & Lilin2" discussion was held on their boards. Several mods took part in the discussions, with various merchants & VIP's (such as cooler) weighing in on the issue. I know - I started the discussion and am STILL seeing it through to completion (a Developer's Addendum to the EULA). Given the combination of shape & JP's - Rendo HAD to be trying to rip off the work that went into V3. Given the price they are charging too (for a subpar figure), I think "rip off" is the correct term." relax. people who are not pro modellers, and dont know much about morphing and CR2s and joint parameters contracted all of the work out to yet unnamed people who did. if anyone is to blame, look there. if you are so naive or hostile as to think someone like clint did something like this deliberately then maybe you shouldnt be on this site to begin with. if there is an infringement, it will obbviously be discovered, its always only a matter of time. ive got a hell of a lot more to lose than most - i actually spent weeks of time on my morph and the clothing pack im making, so if this is an infringement i cant just scream 'refund' - im royally fucked. so are all of the initial content providers. but lets see how this pans out.

Uh oh. Coldrake

Ok, call me an idiot but I'm kind'a confused. Daz's eula has always been rather difficult to understand to begin with. If something here is violating their eula, then isn't it pretty much the case that any clothing made for v3 or any other daz figure also violates their eula, if distributed (either free or for sale)? the .cr2's for clothing have to be virtually the same in order to correctly work with a figure. Am I wrong? E.D.

"The position Rendo has take from the very beginning of this debacle has not been conducive to giving them the benefit of the doubt. At least, not in my opinion. Honest mistakes I can handle and forgive easily. Deception riles me up something fierce." or they could just be honest folk who were duped by the people they contracted to do this. like i said, half the admins wouldnt know a JP from a bar of soap, and on the surface everything looks more or less 'ok' to a layman. im going to wait and see wether or not there is an infringement, and the creators of the mesh and morphs are revealed before i light my torch and pull out my pitchfork.

bookmark

bookmark

"im going to wait and see wether or not there is an infringement" "Out of 58,980 lines in the Renda CR2, there are only 1,452 that are different " ..if?

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E.D. DAZ allow for non-competitive models to be based around their figures. It's all a little wooly, probably deliberately so (the tighter agreements are the surer that someone will find a loophole, it often seems). If you get V3, a pullover is non-competative in that to use it people also need to obtain V3 from DAZ. You also of course cannot grants rights you don't have (you couldn't make a V3 catsuit then grant someone the rights to produce a figure based off your catsuit). A long-winded "bookmark", in other words :( Cliff

Blackhearted, sorry dude - but Rendo is more than "Clint". Rendo is a corporation, a separate legal entity. I don't care who "personally" made the decision to rip off V3 - Rendo "the legal entity" made the decision and released the product. Look at the similarities of the mesh to V3 & look at the JP's. Whether ClintH made the decision or not - "Rendo" deliberately developed & released a V3 clone using data protected by the DAZ EULA. And given the fact that the similarities to V3 are so noticable (even without the CR2 s being highlighted as an only slightly modified copy) - it is beyonod "reasonable doubt" that a V3-alike was not requested. I feel sorry for your efforts having gone into this Blackhearted. But this is not a case of "if this is an infringement" - this is an obvious infringement. The only way that Rendo can dig their way out of this is by either licensing the V3 mesh & JP's from DAZ for this purpose (a laughably insane idea, I know) or by pulling the figure. The fact that the JP's are an obvious copy combined with the fact that the mesh so closely resembles V3 puts too big a cloud of doubt over the mesh itself not having been developed using the V3 mesh as a reference. DAZ could easily sue (& win) based on the surrounding facts. As for my "hostility" - yes, I am feeling hostile. As I mentioned - deception does that to me. EK

"if you are so naive or hostile as to think someone like clint did something like this deliberately then maybe you shouldnt be on this site to begin with." But gabe we all know the usual rosity bashers will soon inexplicably appear in this thread with torches and pitchforks in hand to celebrate the impending death of renderosity . making gleeful self righteous speeches replete with horror stories about friends of thiers who were subjected to Don Corleone style threats to protect the turfs of elite agents of an evil empire that was built on the crushed bodies of the innocent little guy. :-)

bookmark.. for the quarterly scandal..

ED,
That's part of what EKnight was mentioning on his post. DAZ "lend" you the use of their JP's to make clothes but according to the EULA you are incurring in a violation if you use the cr2 of V3 (for example) and make a set of clothes.

This could mean that they could remove any set of clothes if they want arguing EULA infringement.

Scary isn't it.

Edited to say that EK has already answered. Message edited on: 06/28/2005 21:33

there remains the issue of wether or not this constitutes an infringement, and i guess we have to hear from daz for that - hopefully cooler will pop in sooner or later. i am not going to presume to speculate on wether it is or not, im not much of a poser notepad guru and i dont presume to be an expert on copyright law and EULAs. im just very eager to find out just who rosity contracted the rigging and morphs out to. ive got more reason than anyone to be pissed about this, and when i find out who is responsible for wasting weeks of my time im going to take a strip out of their fucking hide.

or they could just be honest folk who were duped by the people they contracted to do this. like i said, half the admins wouldnt know a JP from a bar of soap, and on the surface everything looks more or less 'ok' to a layman. Nicely said. Bless their hearts. (I do know a bar of soap ;) )

Yikes ... I can't believe this, especially after the railing that Sixus1 went through here on these boards over Lilin. They (whoever did the CR2, that is) can't claim ignorance on this one, I'm afraid. Not good.

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 21:36

Blackhearted, I think you are looking at this with rose colored glasses. There is NO doubt of infringement. The evidence presented so far would nail Rendo in a court of law.

The fact that Lilin2 was classified as infringing the EULA proves that this does too. Hell, at least Sixus1 used the CR2 of a piece of clothing they developed for V3! The person who did Renda obviously used not only the V3 figure CR2, but forgot to clean out the superfluous crap!

Sorry mate, there is only one way out of this for Rendo (and hence allowing your efforts to be redeemed by being able to continue selling you products) and that is if they come to some agreement with DAZ.

I honestly wish (for the sake of you & other merchants who have put the time & effort in) that there was some other way. But legally speaking - Renda is damaged goods.

EK

BTW: I am not an "anti-rendo" person as some might like to portray me as. Hell, until Renda - I never really thought of Rendo as anything but a supermarket of Poser stuff. EDIT: Fixed up a fact that could be read the wrong way. Same point, just clearer wording.

Message edited on: 06/28/2005 21:54