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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 09 2:22 am)
Subject: Renda vs V3 -- brawling bimbos or secretly sisters ?
Time to put my tup'pence ha'penny in here. For one I am glad that it has been brought out of the Merchants Forum and into the Public Forums. Okay she looks like V3 but I'm kinda fond of my Vicky and I was going to have a little splurge with this week's wage and treat myself to Renda and an add-on or two. Had this still been kept "behind closed doors" then I would have shelled out a lot of money only to have a product that may yet be pulled. Sure I would probably get a full refund of my purchases but all the work I did in the meantime would have to be scrapped. I've been burned once on here due to my own stupid naivety and I could well have been burnt again due to someone else's oversight. What sickens me is that through this R'Osity stand to lose some exception merchants. They have already spent countless hours creating for this figure and they may well decide that enough is enough and why waste their time here when there are countless outlets for their creations. I know that if I was one of those merchants I would certainly be thinking about packing my bags and heading out to another marketplace without so much as a backward glance. It's not the merchants fault but if this does all blow up you can bet their names will get dragged through the mud as well because they supported the character. It has already been intimated in this thread that the merchants should have checked the figure before they started work - yeah right we all have 48 hour days to do everything in :o| I'm just going to see how this all pans out before I make any decisions about purchasing this figure. I am still going to buy from my favourite merchants here and elsewhere after all it isn;t their fault that someone somewhere fell asleep at the wheel and to cease trading with R'Osity because of this affects the merchants MORE then it actually affects R'Osity. If we don't support the merchants then new products will dry up and right now I think they do need our support.
So every merchant knew the score from the start. In their defense, that may be true ... HOWEVER, when the Lilin issue surfaced it was brought out that DAZ made the offer to allow distribution of Lilin if it was RTE encoded. There is the possibility of an assumption that Renda would be distributed under that condition as well.
My motives for posting this publically can be questioned 'til the cows come home. The original post was a heads up for people who might be having some problems with Renda. BTW, I didn't pore over the CR2, I opened it in notepad. Took about two minutes or less to find the examples that I gave. Hey, when you get a minute, I didn't know that I had an agenda. Could you tell me what it is so that I can schedule appropriately around it ? --Rebekah--
"So every merchant knew the score from the start. That some decided to go ahead and create products for Renda anyway is their own fault and they deserve whatever it costs them. The truth was right there for anyone not blinded by greed. They went in with their eyes wide open and anyone who says otherwise is a damned liar. There are victims, but not among the merchants." unfortunately, ive been signed on to renda since april 20th. i signed an NDA, got the product, looked over it, and began working on it. i gave some feedback and offered to remap the head and parts of the body (i actually had half of it done in UV mappper), was told it was too late because textures for her already existed, so rather than do my traditional texture/morph deal i focused on the morph, to be followed up by clothing i tailored for it. so your whole 'they knew but were blinded by greed' theory may apply to the 1900 merchants who got her for free a day before release, the same day many of these problems came to light, but not for the 10 merchants who were approached by renderosity to create initial content for her. i got the product and worked on it in good faith. i got something that i wasnt too ecstatic about but i felt an obligation to clint and RO to make an effort on. i did my best to make it look appealing, and left things like the JPs to those whose job it is to fix them. your eloquent little tirade making us out to be 'uncaring, deceitful assholes who did this just for greed' is pretty damn far off the mark, and offends the hell out of me. as for the 9 other merchants who created initial content for her, im positive most of them are reading this thread in horror right now. as to why they havent said anything, i cant imagine - frankly im getting sick of being the only one of us sharing their fruustration.
Attached Link: http://www.hlla.com/catalog/echidna.html
"pinpus Oh, it's an Australian native animal. It's kinda like a platypus, but with pointy bits like a porcupine. " Sorry to resurrect this bit of the thread so late in the day, but I thought it was hilarious. Australia really does have a native animal that's kinda like a platypus, but with pointy bits like a .... ok, like a hedgehog. But it's close. LOL And as for the rest of this thread, ... Sheesh!!! Here's the part I don't get: "These empty channel names are in the process of being renamed to PBMCC_xx." If the cr2 wasn't lifted directly from V3 (and munged up a bit until it differed sufficiently), and if these tell-tale channels were intentionally written into Renda's cr2 for future use, then why the midnight scramble to rename them? It's like vaccuming your car at 3:00AM and saying "no honestly, I wasn't anywhere near the scene of the crime"
BTW--I am sorry for the merchants who created for Renda. You shouldn't have had to check it for things like that. It was a good faith situation on your parts. I am sure that no one will hold anything against any of the merchants who did create anything for Renda. That wouldn't be logical. I don't think that Rendo released her like that intentionally, that also wouldn't make sense. BUT, if Rendo is going to be in the market of selling figures and such, perhaps they should get someone on staff that knows more than, "Does it load" ? I gotta get back to work. If you can think of my agenda, please email it to me....so that I can get started on it. :) --Rebekah--
Ah, I didn't know you'd been working on Renda stuff before the Merchant release, BH. I thought you just worked real fast. ;)
But for anyone who started work after that there's no excuse.
Although... you know, this is Renderosity we're talking about. Given their reputation for foot-shooting, you should have known there was absolutely no way this could only turn out anything but badly. :P
Message edited on: 06/29/2005 10:53
Well then, Khai, get serious. Cease to follow the very example you are arguing against and sit back for a tenth of a second to : 1 - Laugh 2 - Realize that there's no way in hell, heaven, or the backways of Elysium that there will be anyone other than an employee of looking into this for Renderosity. 3 - take the dahlia 4 - Go back and read really carefully and think far more free associatively as you do and realize just exactly how serious I've been this entire thread.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
I took a pic of a porcupine and slapped on the bill of a platypus. Well, I knew about the echidna. I've got a photograph of one in my photo gallery (on my personal site, not here). They are similar to the platypus in many ways, but they're more like a hedgehog than a porcupine. They do lay eggs, though. And they eat ants. Weird little beasties, but then, Australia's full of them (which is why I feel so at home here ;-). If you can think of my agenda, please email it to me....so that I can get started on it. 1) Clean cat box 2) Put on laundry 3) Cause the downfall of Renderosity 4) Fix hole in the Ozone Layer 5) Bake cookies 6) Check mail 7) Cure cancer 8) Lunchtime Etc. bonni
"When a man gives his opinion, he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion, she's a bitch." - Bette Davis
There were problems found and reported with Renda when she was first given to the inital group of merchants. They were largely ignored. Severe issues were found and reported when Renda was given to the merchants the day before her release. At that time it was known that the figure was broke. Renda was released anyways. At what time did Renderosity act in the interest of the community? More issues surfaced after her release, and were being discussed in private forums. Renda remained for sale. Does the TOS give a day to act after an copyright issue is reported or is it a day after the issue becomes public? When an artist appears to violate someone else's copyright, this community HAS NEVER quietly waited for an investigation. What happens is that a thread is started, and quickly results the accused pulling their store/gallery and running in disgrace. Usually well before the PTB have investigated, or often even know. As far as I know Sixus1 has always acted in the interest of the community. I have a hard time questioning her motives in bringing this thread to the public. xenic101 {the clock doesn't start, till you get caught}
Ynsaen, can I get a few unicorns to go with my hyacinth? Khai, Renderosity is going to check it. Renderosity, and likely, only Renderosity. DAZ3D will likely buy a copy today, examine it, land on their proverbial asses, then politely and quietly contact Tim or Clint about the issue, ask them to remove it politely and/or offer alternatives, and then the issue will be settled. It's not the end of the world, sugahs. And, as far as it goes? I trust Clint to be impartial about it. He's got a decent head on his shoulders, he and Debbie both. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd trust them with my life, but I do trust them with my products, I trust them to respond quickly and decisively. I may not always agree with their responses, but they're either following policy or doing what they think is right.
Kreations By Khrys
Mehndi stands accused, How can you possibly let Guarie run the investigation? Right? Fair and this place, for a long long time, aren't to be used together. Not only that, as of this moment, no rightful owner has fulfilled the obligations of the DMCA -- that is, DAZ hasn't said jack. And until DAZ does say jack, whatever anyone here posts doesn't mean doodlypoo. We can all scream till we're blue in the face -- that doesn't make a violation. You know that. Choosing to ignore it is, well.... unfair
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
sighs When you open your own site with your own ToS, you can make the rules, Khai. I'm not defending the fact that Renderosity is doing it themselves. I'm just telling you what's going to happen, to save your fingers some wear and tear demanding that someone else do it. They won't get a third party. DAZ will likely have a look, and then that's all she wrote. The righteous indignation will begin to cool to a general annoyance, merchants and customers who were wronged will either move on to better things or continue to be jaded by the problem.
Kreations By Khrys
"...merchants and customers who were wronged will either move on to better things or continue to be jaded by the problem." OR? tsk tsk. Only a hobbled uni for you! but extra hyacinths...
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Gee, what a can of worms! I think Renderosities best bet at this stage would be to remove Renda, refund all the sales for her and related products, and do something to try and make it right for the merchants who did good-faith products for her. I don't think she can be fixed to become a product that isn't a derivate of V3 at this stage, you can't make her back into a virgin when she is 8 months pregnant. And bear in mind that they probbaly haven't even heard from DAZ yet (things move slowly some times out West), but they surely will. I also think Clint and the other Renderosity guys and gals are good people, I don't think they knew what they were getting. Stop payment on the guy's check, maybe think about a lawsuit for damages.
earthworms!!!! lookit 'em all!!! diggin and burrowin and churnin all that buried manure into rich, fertile soil. Gotta love big ole flower fields...
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
Threads like this are the internet equivalent of crowds gathering to see a hanging or a beheading, the facts are out now and Im sure Daz and Renderosity will hash this out, ones not likely to completely alienate the other. We may never know all the sorted details. From a pure business standpoint Daz would be kind of ignorant to pitch too big a fit sense this model will provide a new market for V3 clothing and being that V3 is free and been out a while its not likely to affect V3 add-on sales.
Message edited on: 06/29/2005 11:37
Gabe, Just a thought. The only thing I liked about the Renda character was the body morph that you made. Super sexy! So I was thinking. Since Renda is so close to V3 could you apply the same morphing to V3 and give her the same sexy body? I guess that depends on what you used to morph her. I'm using magnets for some new stuff I'm doing and it's easy for me to apply to different characters. But not so easy if you used 3D program? But, if you could that would be great. Then you're addressing the V3 crowd and not losing as much in time and effort. Besides, I think your stuff rocks!!!!! This coming from an old, repressed, Southern lady. Susan
Daz would be kind of ignorant to pitch too big a fit sense this model will provide a new market for V3 clothing
Why buy something that looks and poses pretty much like V3 when you can get V3 for free? There didn't appear to be any improvements over the "real thing" to be enticing enough ... so there is no new market created.
Message edited on: 06/29/2005 11:39
Why buy something that looks and poses pretty much like V3 when you can get V3 for free? Because we're not supposed to know that it's "sorta kinda like" V3.... :) >> Or stop putting what sells ahead of what's fun to make. Are you insane????? Do you want to ruin the Poser economy? It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to sell, dammit!!!
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
"Are you insane?????" um, well., now that you ask, errr... yes? checks name yeah. Yeah, that's it, alright. hmmmm. I think for you... Angelica!
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
"so your whole 'they knew but were blinded by greed' theory may apply to the 1900 merchants who got her for free a day before release, the same day many of these problems came to light, but not for the 10 merchants who were approached by renderosity to create initial content for her."
Keeping in mind that 99% of those "1900 merchants" stated they wouldn't support her till she was fixed.
Police are investigated by their own internal affairs departments. Judges are investigated by their own governments. So are politicians. And over the years I've seen police, judges and politicians convicted and punished. I even know people who have been fired by people in their own companies for unacceptable behavior. Clint is part of Renderosity but he is not Renderosity. On one hand, he certainly could be seen as having a motive to cover up. On the other hand, he's got good reason to investigate thoroughly and make sure it doesn't happen again. I've been "the boss." Sometimes you actually trust those that work for you to do their job and take their word for it. Sometimes you get screwed by doing that but it's simply not always possible to double-check everyone's work. I don't know him personally but I hope for the best. ----- >> Or stop putting what sells ahead of what's fun to make. Are you insane????? Do you want to ruin the Poser economy? It's not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to sell, dammit!!! Actually, the world economy would collapse if businesses operated that way.
Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/
" Blackhearted, You think they are "pillar of integrity in the poser community."? lol" ehh, every issue i have with Daz stems from their marketing practices - i cant say much bad about them as a company. but yeah, in light of the shitstorms surrounding just about every other poser site recently, theyre coming out looking more and more professional. then again, other than their store ive never really looked into the forums there (i just found out they had forums after reading this thread), so i dont see what goes on behind the scenes.
"im at least as interested to see this issue unfold as any of you, and far more angry than most, but many of you should be ashamed of your behavior. im talking about the 150 'passes the popcorn' and ' Do doo be-do-do be-do-do be-do-do be-do-do-doodle do do do-doo do!' type posts in this thread. you sound like a bunch of preschoolers. grow up, FFS. " Spare us the dramatics Joan
sweet woodruff and tansy as well, Byrdie. wiggles eyebrows Commercial roses and tulips are not allowed in The Field Of Inanity -- however, some SCOTUS approved ones are available at the concession stand :)
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
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:P no cowslips for you!!!!
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)