YAY! I have a hobbled unicorn! hugs it and loves it and names it George! On another note, if it's not fun or something I think needs to be done, I don't do it. Maybe that's why I don't make heaps and bundles of money, but the stuff I've had real fun with has always sold well, or at least decently, while the stuff I've forced out hasn't sold jack.

"Spare us the dramatics Joan" no dramatics: im sick of having to scroll through 150 posts of 'pass the popcorn', gibberish, lame jokes and stupid animal pictures in a thread where they have no place whatsoever. if you people have nothing constructive or relevant to say then go back to the chicken coop - aptly named for alll of the 'chicken littles' who reside there. its a shame sometimes that the administration at this site is so lax - id have went through this thread and temp-banned anyone giggling or posting retarded remarks long ago. theres nothing funny about this issue, and it doesnt even affect half the people posting this shit because they havent spent a pennny at renderosity in years. theyre only here because no doubt threads were posted at PP, rotica, etc to 'go see the shitstorm brewing at rosity', and like flies to a turd they all come buzzing over to make their lame remarks. after about 5 years of this same cycle im really tired of it -- when are some of you people going to finally grow up?

bkmarked

I don't post much here but I must say that this has shocked me. I did get Renda for free as all the merchants did but I've never loaded her up in Poser yet to look at her. I saw some screenshots and was kind of disappointed in her performance but I will say that a company as large as RO having a copyright issue like this does shock me. And in the same breath, I will say that I think we all just need to sit back and wait instead of making numerous posts of nonsense that Clint and everyone else involved has to weed through before they can reply about anything. Wait for an official word and talk on your messenging programs with people instead of here so that we can hear something sooner than we would have with a (soon to be) 500 posts thread. :) Kacy

Actually, the world economy would collapse if businesses operated that way ... which I guess says plenty about the nature of the world economy.

"Dan Farr appears to have been online here for the last half hour." Wanna take bets on what threads he's reading (grin)?

"It will be handled today after an investigation." - Clint

Maybe you should have investigated a bit before release? ;])

"perhaps i have more a more refined sense of humor" - blackhearted

I've known you for almost five years. No "perhaps" about it: you don't.

"i wasted weeks of my time on this bloody thing and the way things are going im going to be left out in the cold along with nine other initial content providers who did absolutely nothing wrong." - blackhearted

Heh. You didn't bother to look at all of the problems with the figure - emminently obvious problems, from the images posted in her release thread - and think that you might possibly be wasting weeks of work on something that was going to bomb out of the gate? You don't think possibly that investing that much time and effort into something that someone as experienced with mesh as you are should have been able to see was "Figure creation Curious Labs style" was doing something wrong?

Self-inflicted wounds don't get you any sympathy, Gabe. You suckered yourself into wasting weeks of work. Call it a learning experience and quit whingeing.

"and ironhbear ur a baaad baaaad puddytat." - Lordfox

;]) I'm bein' downraght laid back here. [And you've seen me on a roll before, you know that's true. g]

"so yeah, im sure i should have looked into it. so should everyone else who worked on her. hindsight is 20/20. but if people are going to start expecting merchants to investigate every single item they product content for then" - blackhearted

This community has seen a solid dozen - at least - of major copyright violations in the past year and a half alone. Quite a number of them here at Renderosity, from various vendors. Some of those vendors fairly high profile. Name 'em, list 'em, and count 'em yourself.

That being the case, "then" maybe merchants need to start investigating things themselves as a matter of course, out of sheer self preservation, ya think?

Gimme a fucking break, Gabe. Your wasted work and that of the 9 other vendors is no one's bloody fault but your own.

"this thread itself wouldnt have come about unless rebekah posted information she gleaned from an ongoing investigation in the merchant forum" - blackhearted

Bloody well good for her. Beats hell out of it being buried "out of sight and out of mind" with all of the membership being oblivious. Not that Renderosity has a known history of giving the membership the mushroom treatment or anything, but... ;])

It's all for the good that this is out in the open, instead of being buried in Merchant's Forum, considering that Rendo released this thing publically expecting unsuspecting members to pony up cash to fund this fiasco. And good on 'Bekah on bringing it out.

And if you want to pull that tired old "agenda" routine on me, gabriel me bucko - name me three agendas you think I have, and I'll own 'em and list you twelve more you hadn't even thought about. I'm pretty straight up on my motivations. ;]

"theyre only here because no doubt threads were posted at PP, rotica, etc to 'go see the shitstorm brewing at rosity', and like flies to a turd they all come buzzing over to make their lame remarks." - blackhearted

Nope. No threads on this at 'Rotica. I just checked. ;]

"if you people have nothing constructive or relevant to say then go back to the chicken coop" well since this is actually a copyright issue isn't this whole thread in the wrong place?

BH, I have never replied to you or commented in reply to something you have said until now. YOU may be tired of the little kidding that is going on, and YOU may think that others are not interested. Let me clarify what my thoughts are. I am extremely interested, the fact that I kid around with others does not in anyway shape or form mean I am not interested in the outcome and what effect it will have on other merchants. I really don't care if you hate having to scroll through multiple messages that you could careless for. I have never complained about having to scroll through multiple diatribes by YOU in various threads so get off it. If you don't like what you are reading then do the truly adult thing, ignore and and don't reply. Don't sit here and pretend to be an adult try and lecture anyone Mrs Crabtree cause it isnt going to float, especially with me. Go ahead and reply, like the puppet that you are. Your strings are easier to pull than a ripped thong at Daytona beach. Carry on peeps and pass the rum so more, just dont share with the bitter people. L>

IB: im not going to be held responsible for this. as a merchant, working with other peoples products in the MP, you cant realistically sit there and run every single one under the microscope before you start working on it. wed be spending 99% of our time examining, investigating and testing and 1% actually working on my products. ive learned my lesson, im not going to be on any initial launch again. ill sit back and see how things go, and if im satisfied with the products progress then ill add my support. i do custom morphs, textures, model clothing, and a JCM or 2 here and there. i know jack @$#% about joint parameters, and while i voiced that there were some problems with renda i assumed that the people responsible for them were working on it (and they were, just not fast enough). i took a big risk doing initial content for a product i had not even seen before, and in this case it backfired on me. rest assured that ill be pretty hesitant, if not downright reluctant, do do anything like this ever again. "That being the case, "then" maybe merchants need to start investigating things themselves as a matter of course, out of sheer self preservation, ya think?" again, i dont have time for this. im not an 'investigator', or a tester. ill just stick to established figures as a method of 'self preservation'... well established ones. it seems noone is immune to this - look at the nesterenko deal at 3DC, for all i know there may have been initial content providers burned on that one as well. you cant expect a merchant to start comparing vertices and joint parameters of whatever theyre working on to popular similar models, evern after something like this. theyre just going to avoid them like the plague.

My last post in this thread: Prefix: Despite hesitations and 'let's form committees', the evidence is quite clear. The person who rigged Renda, either initially or after having been directed to fix deficiencies, has breached something (Copyright, EULA, whatever). After doing comparisons between Renda.cr2 and Victoria 3.cr2, there is no doubt in my mind that this is the case - way beyond reasonable doubt. 1. The Renda product should be immediately pulled from the Renderosity MarketPlace so that noone else can make purchases (id est: cover your assets!) 2. I feel sorry for the merchants working on Renda products and the customers who purchased anything related to Renda. They should be amply compensated/refunded in one way or another. End of story. When Daz3D learned of the Humvee issue, they immediately issued a statement to all that had the product, through email and pulled the product out of the catalog. That is responsible. 3. I don't feel sorry about this entire affair, for these reasons:

• Similarities in structure to V3 should have been a warning sign.
• When notified of deficiencies by those working on related products and then by merchants, Renderosity still went ahead and released it for commerical sale.
• As a 'flagship' product for Renderosity through RPublishing, extra-special care should have been warranted and taken to ensure a quality product void of legal issues. We've all taken hell over all of the work necessary to verify the authenticity/legality of our products in statements in the Readme.txt to filing 'rights to use' paperwork with BondWare. This breach is hypocritical.
• Whoever the product creator, the choice was ill-conceived. There seem to be any number of very capable and proven figure creators who inhabit Renderosity (Anton, for instance). Never send a boy to do a man's job.
• The real shock is the denial and hush-hush surrounding this. This product is selling for profit. When an automobile manufacturer hides deficiencies in its products that are uncovered, recalls ensue followed by investigations and sometimes guideline updates and mandates. Once in a great while, these deficiencies are openly acknowledged before public awareness, but many times it requires action on the part of others. This seems to be the case here.

Honesty and openness are the best policies. The facts are out there, let's fix the problem (not sweep it under a carpet).

1. I see references to Mehndi. What happened to her? Was she accused of something? 2. Why should Sixus1 have to defend herself for posting this? She did us all a favor. 3. Can Rosity ban itself? Hi BH. Sorry for your troubles. How you been otherwise? Yo LF.

Quick side note: If rebekah hadn't posted, someone else would have. I almost bought Renda this morning, just for the humor factor, and I can promise I'd have found the same thing. The first thing I do whenever I buy a new figure is look at the .cr2 for new ideas I can use on my next figure/product. You should see me on Maximus! Now talk about innovations there! It's going to take me weeks to figure out all of Anton's improvements. Ironbear: Bud, I do love reading your posts. They're always fun. NightFlyer: Normally I'd agree that this should be in the Copyright forum, but this product was sold by the site itself as it's flagship figure. That raises it importance and visability, and affects the trust that customers have in the site itself. Poserpro's problem with Mehndi's texture set seems minor to me compared to this. This deals with the two largest content providers for Poser that we have: Daz and Renderosity.

To say that one does not have time to invesitgate a possible problem is irresponsible. L.

kuroyume, you've summed up my feelings on this issue quite succinctly. That's why I think this whole thing is quite tragic, and could have and SHOULD have been avoided.

If Renderosity wants a female figure of their own, i'd be willing to talk to them about doing one for them. I'm a little busy atm and plan one of my own, but I am always avaialble by email: antonkisiel@verizon.net

Wow. One of the very first things I do when I'm planning a product is to sit there and actually play with it, first. This isn't a common thing for merchants to do? I always try out the limits of the existing before I go on to create original content, to make sure that I'm not effectively duplicating something already in the character's capacity to be.

Bookmark

"ive learned my lesson, im not going to be on any initial launch again. ill sit back and see how things go, and if im satisfied with the products progress then ill add my support." - blackhearted

Sounds good, Gabe. Once bitten, twice shy and all that rot. Look, in spite of snarking at your comments, I'm really not annoyed with you. I am a bit annoyed with Renderosity though, and it spills over. Rendo's seen what... how many release fisacos like this one? And how many copyright fiasco's, many of them in these forums? And how many forum responses to their instances of less than sterling QC? One would think they'd have an idea of what to look for and avoid, so as to not put themselves and you guys in this position. I guess that'd require them to actualy pay attention though, eh? Oh well. I think you've been bit. You may not have much option except to eat the lost work and be wary next time. Sucks.

I really wouldn't want to be too closely associated with 'rosity atm. o.O This isn't just about the V3 stuff, but how they ignored their OWN merchants and released a mess for sale.

Re Message 344

Uh actually it was jsj vs SteffyZ textures from Asia.

ByteMe0K was next.

There IS more to the above story, but I'm staying out of this mess. Almost everyone was satisified, but I have to take MY satisfaction as I can get it. :)

Message edited on: 06/29/2005 13:44

Just an observation... Many have commented on the TOS and this thread, but I realized that TPB can not really do or say anything about this thread without a select portion of the community start claiming TPB are trying to sweep this under the rug. I now understand DAZ's position on Legal Questions of products at any location in their forum. Keep everything out, and you will keep out even the ones that might involve you.

I don't suppose anyone's considered the fact that Renda and V3 could actually be brawling sisters that are secretly bimbos?

MAXXMODELZ "(there is no such thing as bad publicity....)" Sure there is. Just ask "Wacko Jacko" how he thinks his next CD will do. ;-P is that why when he was cleared...airplay of his songs went up dramatically......they told MJ to get his finger out...and he did...then put it back in......cough cough

"You should see me on Maximus! Now talk about innovations there! It's going to take me weeks to figure out all of Anton's improvements." I really don't have a use for a male poser character (I've never even loaded M3, and even though I have Ichiro 1&2, have only even looked at them once or twice. I've been only doing add on type things, but would like to finally finiosh a toon character or two in dev hell. I wish Anton would do a book on character developement, "bearskinning" a figure, and he could use Maximus as examples.

422!!! On the plus side, we have learned from this other related threads about Renda that there are up and comming female models from Spanki, Neftis, Anton, Seraphira, and Wusamah. There is already a free model from Sixus1. And to finish all, Blackhearted is going to turn his attention to V3. I'm rather happy about all that! As for this, can there be anything more still to be said? The alarm has been raised, its time to sit back and wait for the outcome. I know it looks damning for 'Rosity just now but lets wait for a little more information before we start getting too indignant and pointing fingers. If nothing happens, then we can shout some more, till then, I think we're better waiting a day or two.

Poserpro's problem with Mehndi's texture set seems minor to me compared to this.

Not to me. Mehndi's texture set was a merchant resource. A lot of artists were left vulnerable, unlike Renda, which (so far, anyway) affects only a few merchants. That texture pack was for sale for years, and was a bestseller.

Perhaps worse, that texture set infringed on the copyright of a large company outside of Poserdom. DAZ will protect their products, but they've usually proved pretty understanding. They're part of the Poser community, and don't want to trash it. They ask for the infringing item to be RTEncoded, or that it be changed. So far as I know, they generally don't demand big bucks in damages. (I expect a similarly amicable settlement will be made here. This is not the end of Rosity. Though it's probably the end of Renda...)

" To say that one does not have time to invesitgate a possible problem is irresponsible." ..just as to say that one should make time to investigate every possible problem is impractical. i think i went out of my way with many of the problems. i offered to remap her for free, and failing that i moved on to the 'look' itself and morphed it into something completely different, fixing (IMO) what i could of the mesh along the way. again, i know jack @$#% about rigging, and joint parameters for that matter (beyond simple work such as articulating simple mechanical parts on the handgun in my recent pack, for example).

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2320175