Attached Link: http://www.animotions.com/article-12-thread-1-0.html

May I ask how many people is buying another male figure that has his main advantage points in being able to bend in silly ways without breaking the mesh? Perhaps circus promo flyers designers? ;)

As one of the people who really wants ApolloMax to be a hit, I think alot of people should go out and buy him and see if they like him better than M3 and D3, alot of what is in ApolloMax are things that are missing in the Unimesh Figures. If anything ApolloMax should be a kick-in-the-tail to the Unimesh makers to finally listen to some of us who have been asking for changes that are now standard in ApolloMax. ApolloMax will take time to get used to using, and if you really have patience it will definately pay off. There are still some mapping issues but I am sure that Anton Kisiel, the creator of ApolloMax will actually listen to the people using Apollo and will react accordingly. Apollo is also heavily reviewed on my site, which I am not allowed to name here. However if you look up my profile you can find it there. Greetings Antonio Rodriguez (profotograf)

"As one of the people who really wants ApolloMax to be a hit, I think alot of people should go out and buy him and see if they like him better than M3 and D3"... Do you have any way to refund me the money if I'm not satisfied with the product? I mean REFUND, not give me a 45$ coupon for RDNA store. I really can't afford to throw away money 'cos CG illustration is just one of my hobbies, so if RDNA can do this for me, perhaps I'll give Apollo a try :)

There are several reasons to buy ApolloMax: 1. He poses much better. 2. The morph targets allow you to create looks that are radically different from the default face. 3. He really fulfills the muscle gap in between M2 and M3. M2 had some limitations due to the number of morphs, M3 was merely derived from V3. 4. He has the best shoulders of any poser figure on the market. You will definitely love this figure. I haven't loaded up a DAZ figure in the time that I've been playing with Apollo.

"There are several reasons to buy ApolloMax: 1. He poses much better." Again: I've seen only absurd and unrealistic poses, I'm not interested in circus images but only in real-life ones. And David3 pretty much covers my needs. "2. The morph targets allow you to create looks that are radically different from the default face." I'm quite able to do it with D3, thanks. "3. He really fulfills the muscle gap in between M2 and M3. M2 had some limitations due to the number of morphs, M3 was merely derived from V3." I'm not interested in nude/swimsuit male renderings. "4. He has the best shoulders of any poser figure on the market." Agreed. "You will definitely love this figure. I haven't loaded up a DAZ figure in the time that I've been playing with Apollo." I'll repeat myself: Do you have any way to refund me the money if I'm not satisfied with the product? I think this is a reasonable request, 'cos I've already invested much time and money in D3...

"M3 was merely derived from V3."

Thank you ,which is why he is useless!! to
those of us who render ultra masculine rugged
comic book hero males
Message edited on: 07/16/2005 09:09

So by what your saying, does DAZ "refund" money for those not satisfied by their characters? I think not! Up to now there's been only two options, DAZ or Poser base characters...not much of a choice. Now there's a a new character that not only competes with DAZ M3 but imho blows him out of the water. This just gives more options to the consumer which in my opinion is a good thing. By reading all the above bashing you've done of Apollo one would almost think that you don't feel very good about options for the consumer. Sorry Andrea, I don't understand the chip on your shoulder. -jay

blaufeld, you've seen AM in absurd poses, well, because it can!!! ;) Most figures break horridly when posed extremely (even natural extremes like legs or arms crossed). A 3D human figure that can't even get near the extremes before becoming a mess is useless or requires specialized, techno-geek level tweaking for realistic work. AM can do this and more out of the box. Wish Anton had a free, demo LE model, then you could compare D3/M3/V3/S3 to AM in side by side posing competition. I think that AM would win, hands down, arms crossed, legs split, and so on... ;)

Blaufield, the only thing we can offer in the forums is a reason to buy or not to buy. The issue of refund has to be handled with someone through the RDNA store. Insisting that the community in general can you a guarentee of satisfication is absurd... That said, the reviews for Apollo Max have been extremely positive so the choice as to whether he meets your needs is up to you.

DAZ will give you a refund on a product if you are not satisfied, as will RDNA ... I've never tried here at Rendo. As far as AM ... or any figure ...once the clothes are on it hardly matters, but AM does pose better than any DAZ character I have..the joints are great and real looking. but how many characters/figures do you need? Nudes and bare body, maybe AM is needed, but otherwise, why ???

I really want AM to succeed, but really have no use for another male character. (I rarely if ever use the ones I own now). Anton is a great benefit to the poser community though, and that's why I want him to succeed. (I'm of the same mind with Neftis.) But shelling out $50 to get the figure in case I'd like to do a morph set for him in the future is a little steep for my blood. With Daz, I can use money from my sales, or earned vouchers or credits to buy characters for future product expansion, without actually handing someone real money, but with RDNA, I don't have anything like that option.

But why do people NOT want another male figure? I have been bitching about missing things in the Unimesh figures for over a year now and no one has listened or even cared. In fact, the last three figures released by DAZ in the Unimesh variation have gotten less and less morphs, and they are not organized to match each other somewhat... and everything below the knee is a catastrophe. Anton and his ApolloMaximus has handled ALL OF THAT in one figure and I can finally have a somewhat realistic character that can actually wiggle his toes and move his feet etc... With M3 you can turn and rotate his big toe, and the other 4 as a group. With D3, you can rotate and turn all toes as 1 group, and there are less morphs (toe point is gone). With Luke, well thats even worse. And Hiro is based alot like Luke. You'd figure that going forward things written in the DAZ forums would be taken into consideration, but ignored is more like it. Anton read all of those pleas and has tried to make ApolloMaximus do alot of what the Unimesh figures have failed to do. One other thing, I live in Germany, where nudity is a natural thing, not something to freak out about. Anton was forced to reduce the gens on ApolloMax down to -60% because of sales requirement from the USA. And did you know that ApolloMax is anatomically correct behind too? But because of restrictions from the USA he isn't allowed to be. We laugh about that over here, but Apollo is the most COMPLETE figure out there. I think those who complain they don't need a new male figure should go back to using Poser 3 and the V3 Male... - Antonio

I can say that while apollo's technology is appealing, I'm pretty good with the male figures I have. I Like James' build. I can get Unique faces out of any of the male figures other than dork. If I use all the male figures at my disposal I already can make pretty much any kind of character I need, and at the moment anyway extreme bending hasn't been an issue (at least not one I can't work around. I also still haven't seen an apollo morph job that I really like, but that may not mean anything. Given these factors I frankly just can't afford him right now. That doesn't mean I won't pick him up down the line though. But for now I invested in Wardrobe wizard instead. I wish Anton the best of Luck and hope Apollo is a smash.

"But why do people NOT want another male figure? I have been bitching about missing things in the Unimesh figures for over a year now and no one has listened or even cared." Maybe because the issues you raise are pretty much non-issues for some users? As I said, I rarely use the male characters I have already. As superior as Maximus is, I don't really need him for anything. "One other thing, I live in Germany, where nudity is a natural thing, not something to freak out about. Anton was forced to reduce the gens on ApolloMax down to -60% because of sales requirement from the USA. And did you know that ApolloMax is anatomically correct behind too?" While that might be thrilling for you, I can't honestly think of how either of those features would benefit me at all. I'm sure the people over at Renderotica are thrilled about it though. "I think those who complain they don't need a new male figure should go back to using Poser 3 and the V3 Male.." It sounds to me like you are just attempting to be a "hype" benefit, but in fact, Anton doesn't NEED that. His workmanship is top notch, and his reputation in his products is sterling. The choice of product though, is of no current interest to me at this point in time. In the last few months, I added Hiro and Jesse, and I've yet to even begin to use them at all... why would I need to add another unused figure to my stable? I'd like to see him use his technical knowledge for something more unique.

I too will likely never buy apollo but i think his move way from the tedious DAZ "injection " bullshit is the future of poser rigs and i wish Anton much success with this new figure

Well from viewing the posts on this site, I would imagine that people don't want another male figure because males don't have absolutely, enormous, bigger than your head breasts! Funnily enough, many of the criticisms I've seen of AM is that he isn't realistic or he bends too far or stuff like that. But again I'm seeing a double standard. It's okay to distort women's bodies to bizarre fetish extremes, but a male model that can do that is just wrong. I'm fairly new to Poser, and haven't really mastered it yet, but I will be getting Apollo when my next bonus check comes in.

Sorry for the long post: To Jay7347: "So by what your saying, does DAZ "refund" money for those not satisfied by their characters?" I'm not interested in DAZ refund policy, I'm asking this to RDNA. "Sorry Andrea, I don't understand the chip on your shoulder" I'm not native English, please explain me what do you mean. And explain why you don't understand if I don't want to risk blowing money on another male figure. To kuroyume0161: "blaufeld, you've seen AM in absurd poses, well, because it can!!! ;) " That does not means that those extreme poses are useful... To PapaBlueMarlin: "Blaufield, the only thing we can offer in the forums is a reason to buy or not to buy. The issue of refund has to be handled with someone through the RDNA store. Insisting that the community in general can you a guarentee of satisfication is absurd..." I don't want satisfaction guaranteed, I was asking IF there's a means to recover my money IF I find Apollo not of my liking.

blaufeld said:

"I was asking IF there's a means to recover my money IF I find Apollo not of my liking."

What you need to do blaufeld, is go to RDNA, either IM one of the Admins over there or just ask Anton in the Apollo forum that they have and they will give you your answer. RDNA reps are not going to answer your question in this thread, so go over there where the question should be asked to the people that know for sure :)

LE

Message edited on: 07/16/2005 13:17

Blaufeld, Max is seen in absurd poses to prove that he can achieve them, but he is just as good in 'normal' poses. The fact that a Porche can achieve 120 KPH does not mean that it cannot operate at normal speeds, but it's speed is quoted to show its capabilities. You are rigth, though. If D3 satisfies your needs, stick with him!

LadyElf, thank you very much! TigerD, you caught my point: I'm very sorry that an LE version - to try his possibilities - doesn't exists, I want not and can not judge a product that I have not tried...

I picked up Apollo. And I think he's pretty cool. His default look is not my speed, but he can morph into some more my style. Apollo didn't kick M3 out my runtime (but neither did the Freak, David, Luke, Matt, or Hiro). For me, Apollo is the most useful for dynamatic high action poses. I do anime/manga type stuff, and I can't tell you how many times I banged my head against the wall trying to make M3 pose the way I want him him without looking like shit. Apollo can do those high action poses like no other male figuree can! To me, that's a major plus. He's my best choice for action poses. It's just going to take awhile to build up a pose library that works for him, since he rigged differently. Another plus is, I have no doubt Anton will make fun add ons for Apollo. I've already picked his Anime Apollo, -- I had to have that crazy spikey hair!!! LOL! Too cool! ;) bB

If you have a existing male model that you are happy with you should stick with that model. Nobody is forcing anybody to switch or abandon other figures. Daz has Mike 2, Mike 3, The Freak, David, Grim, Luke, Matt, Hiro, Mil Boys. That's 9 male characters. All to acheive different looks, styles and needs. ApolloMax with scaling dials, and morphs in both positive and negative can give you the look of a skinny Zombie, a young adult, a beefy thug, and a "normal" guy. All in one poser figure. One of the advantages of this is that clothing that is made to work with the scaling dials will look good on a Apollo young kid, as well as a beefy thug. More value for your money. 1 poser figure, many different looks, styles and needs. If other male figures meet your needs great. There are a lot of poser users that have wanted Daz to fix things in their figures for a long time and those issues haven't been addressed. ApolloMax addresses some of those issues and meets those poser users uses. With PhilC's Wardrobe wizard ApolloMax can use the existing clothing of all the other male figures and still get the benifits of all the bends, scaling, and imporovements that are in the apollomax figure. There are differences with the way ApolloMax and other figures are done. Some clothing doesn't convert well. Some does. The real key is options. Daz David the article said was $115, ApolloMax not on sale is $99. Daz Mike 3 is like $85, because base is free. A lot of new features in a new figure that is competatively priced. If you don't need a new male figure, don't get him. If you looking for a new male figure take a look at ApolloMax, he may meet your needs.

Attached Link: http://www.byanton.com

Attached Link: CP

Thanks Anton :) I think MC has really hit the nail on the head. This is not just a figure for pinups and muscle pics. He is incredibly versatile in that he can be a dwarf, a child, a teen, an anime figure, a monster, a normal guy, a muscle dude, etc. So he really isn't just another male figure. Apollo has reversible morphs to provide an even wider range of effects. To top it off, in my opinion, his eventually face room compatibility is just a preview of the extent of support this figure is going to receive. So he is not just a novelty figure that is going to go unsupported. Sorry if I seem a bit overzealous. It's been a while since I've been truly excited about the release of a new poser figure :)

Blaufeld, reading all of your posts, it's hard to not ask oneself...do you just have something against creator of the model? If you don't like it, fine. Don't buy it.

No problemm Tialise. People should continue to use what they have if they don't really want/need/or afford a new model. I would hope that anyone saying "I am considering buying him.." is sincere though.

Tialise, you are starting to see a personal attack where's none. I think you have a little problem... Sorry to have stepped on the Sacred Ground of the Male Figure that will put an end to the Evil Unimesh Empire... It's clear that some of you aren't up to a mature discussion.

ApolloMax does Mature very well. Also does young adult too.

"May I ask how many people is buying another male figure that has his main advantage points in being able to bend in silly ways without breaking the mesh? Perhaps circus promo flyers designers? ;)" Very Mature. No offense, but you got people on the defensive with the way you started this off. It was a very rude reply. If you read most of the responses no one cares if you dislike Apollo or not. If you don't want to get it him, that's fine. But it can also be said in a much nicer way. :)

""May I ask how many people is buying another male figure that has his main advantage points in being able to bend in silly ways without breaking the mesh? Perhaps circus promo flyers designers? ;)" Very Mature. " It was a joke. The emoticon clearly (I thought) explained it. My bad. Seeing that all the replies were based on this misunderstanding I beg your pardon and consider this question closed.

I would like to thank Anton for Apollo Maximus. Thank you for creating an alternative to the Daz morph injected figures, which I find very difficult to use. Thank you for not morph injecting Apollo. Thank you for providing a figure whose default appearance is not that of a fashion model. Having been out of the Poser scene for a couple of years it's refeshing to have a new and exciting figure to work with. I was wondering if you were working on any hairier texture maps for him, facial hair and regular hair peices to help create even more unique looks. Thanks again.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1002983

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1003466

Papa, thank you - what can you tell me about the Custom Poser 6 Skin Materials? Are they comparable to the Unimesh Realism Kit by face_off (wich now I almost exclusively use) ?

The skin shaders are comparable to the other realism kits by face_off. You can change the specularity, change skin tone, change oilness, change highlighting and spots. If you experiment with the settings you can get a wide range of different effects. The lips on the girl character were handled manually, but everything else was done using the face_off kits. The only thing that may be missing is that the M3 HyperREAL set had the option of adding wrinkles to M3. That option isn't available for Apollo, but it's not included for the P6 figures in the P6 realism kit either. The combination of a realism kit and the ambience occulsion kit/tutorial can really help your renders look a lot better :)

Tomsde, Anton has made a "scalp/beard figure that you can conform to Apollo and it will put facial hair on him. OutOfTouch has even made some MAT files for it for even more options. "http://www.runtimedna.com/catalog.ez?ShowProduct=OT%2D015&TopElement=0" I believe the skinsuit comes with a high res hair transparency map. Not sure if that's what you were wanting to know. But hope it helps.

Jepe's got a hairy texture for Apollo which should be showing up in the RMP very shortly - it's already up at 3D Commune from what I understand.

Attached Link: Bear Image

Jepe does excellent texture work, that's the sort of thing I'm looking for. I am looking forward to seeing what Anton comes up with too, I used his M2 hairy body texture frequently in the past.

In Germany nudity is a natural thing, and free speech is not. In America free speech is a natural thing, and nudity is not. I'll take the American option six days a week and twice on Sunday.

"In America free speech is a natural thing" Once upon a time...

FreeSpeech still exists, as this thread proves.

And you think we've landed on the moon, don't you? ;)

Sorry, I must jump in here and bust some myths. America is not the idea of "America" anymore. In a recent ranking of which countries that have the most Free Speech by "Reporters Without Borders." The ranking are based on the following criteria: "The index was drawn up by asking journalists, researchers and legal experts to answer 50 questions about the whole range of press freedom violations (such as murders or arrests of journalists, censorship, pressure, state monopolies in various fields, punishment of press law offences and regulation of the media). The final list includes 139 countries. The others were not included in the absence of reliable information." Finland ranked number 1. Germany is number 7. America is number 17. How sad for the country that invented Free Speech. You can see all the rankings here: http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/freedom_of_press.htm bB

You are clearly a terrorists friend, a communist and perhaps a liberal gay pacifist.

And you're either being silly, a troll, or ignorant. We did land on the moon. We have pictures of the Earthrise from the moon. We have rocks from the moon. And thanks to scientific equipment we put there, we can shoot a laser to the moon and can determine the exact distance of the moon to the Earth, and the distance is growing. In the face of all this irrefutable scientific fact and proof, it pretty much makes all conspiracy theorists look like Piped Pipers for idiots. I'm done with the topic. bB

"And you're either being silly, a troll, or ignorant. We did land on the moon. We have pictures of the Earthrise from the moon. We have rocks from the moon. And thanks to scientific equipment we put there, we can shoot a laser to the moon and can determine the exact distance of the moon to the Earth, and the distance is growing. In the face of all this irrefutable scientific fact and proof, it pretty much makes all conspiracy theorists look like Piped Pipers for idiots. I'm done with the topic." Holy smoke BastBlack! I'm completely with you, I was try to do sarcasm and posting the type of reply that a right-wing conservative would: I feel that there's no more right of free speech because when anyone DARES to criticize the dubya administration, soon follows the accusations of being anti-american and pro-terrorist... :P BTW I know we landed on the moon ;)

Sorry for the misunderstadning. Good to know Karl Rove, Pat Robertson, and Zell Miller aren't posting on Renderosity. ;)

I didn't see a " ;) " mark on your post so I thought you were serious.

bB

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 13:35

"I didn't see a " ;) " mark on your post so I thought you were serious. " Shame on me! :) Peace :D