is there somewhere on this site to rant, or are we to just keep our mouths shut and accept things as moderators decide...and I mean public rant...not hidden from view...

nope no free thought, it's a bad thing. yep, mouths shut and wallets open perfered.

Hi Dave, I'm not really sure what you're after... If you are ranting about Poser then feel free to rant in here, after all, we've all done it... If you are unhappy with something regarding the way the site is run then you should probably email admin@renderosity.com for the quickest response. If you are unhappy with a product you bought here, you should post in Customer Support forum. Hope this helps... Karen :-) Poser Mod

vote republican, pay your taxes, go to church and shut the hell up! I think that sums up this site Dave :( glorified lookup table. bahh

I'd recommend against ranting; view bad moderation as a valuable lesson in human nature, instead. I used to be a strong advocate of the site, right or wrong, but now I'm more fair-minded and impartial. So in a way, I have a bad moderator to thank for forcing me to take a more realistic view of things.

You may rant wherever you choose. Such as in your bathroom.

(Like this: RANT! RANT! RANT!)

So vote democratic, cheat on your taxes, go to sleazy clubs, and RANT!

I have this great dissertation all ready...sould I risk getting locked out and banned or just keep my mouth shut ???? and, yes, it is a rant on the site operation...the TOS, and banning/deleting images of a political nature...and no, I do not want to email admin@renderosity.com. I want public ranting in full display... Bring back that open forum we used to have here.

BTW -- I believe that the issue is set in stone. Renderosity is a great place for the dicsussion of IBL AO. And other such topics.

Easy answer. PoserPros in the Chicken Coop forum is the place to rant and not get your post deleted. Doesn't do any good here. Their playground, their rules.

but not a great place to display works of art political in nature created in Poser 6 utilizing IBL AO and even some atmospherics, and face room manipulation? especially those created in Poser and focused against the current US administration ?

I know what I'm going to say isn't going to be anything popular, but, well, what's new ;) If you ran a business, would you let your customers sit in your store and proclaim to all of the customers coming in how much everything sucks? How everything is slow, how you don't think such and such was treated fairly, etc.? Rants tend to turn into arguments very quickly, unfortunately. Yes, the site is slow. We are sorry, and the Admin are working on that. It's not something that's going to be fixed overnight. I, too, have had a really tough time navigating the site today. Ranting about it is not going to make it run faster. Also, ranting about the TOS isn't going to change it, either. If you wish to have a place where you can freely rant, I've suggested a few times before, start a blog. Either put one on your own webserver, or use a free one at some of the free blog sites, such as livejournal, xanga, or blogger. You can rant to your hearts' content there. shields herself for the incoming MorriganShadow Poser Moderator

The Decline of Democracy is perfectly natural. No government can last forever. People will pretend America has freedom until it dies and the country blows up with a wimper. So please rant, so we know someone is still alive and that we all are not brain washed, ignorant, or on meds. Insurance Companies and Corporation rule America in an Oligarchy! Ah, that rant felt good. Let's see or hear your rant. There is little time.

INCOMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, "I wasn't going to whine about how slow the site is, but now that you bring it up :) Blog ... that would be cool if we could put a link to it in here somewhere...that way, when We're ranting against Rendo, you guys could go over there and read about it... See, I really think there needs to be a place to vent your feelings. Suppose emailing to admin@renerosity.com would at least be a start, but how can you get an uprising going if no one else knows there's a revolution ??? Anyway, I see the fact its futile to try and expound without getting locked or whatever. Thanks for your time :) now back to your regular programming

"The Decline of Democracy " who said this site is a democrocy. btw if we hate it so much! why do we keep coming back?

Brief program interruption: purplecloud, I hear ya...and my rant is concerning an image that was pulled from the galleries for expressing that exact point of view. At least I know where this site leans.

You can, as long as it isn't age-restricted, list it as your sponsor page or link to it on your homepage. You can do just as Penguinisto, and feel free to announce that you've got a new entry up. We don't expect you all to be perfect angels all the time. With a member base as large as we've got, that wouldn't even be a pipe dream. But, we do expect that you treat everyone on the site with the same respect that you feel you deserve, even if you disagree with them. Thanks for reading, and I hope you guys have a great night ;) MS

thanks...you too :) and now back to MY regular programming

Try Cheryle's site to discuss the image, which you can post at the Poser binaries newsgroup without fear of deletion. Both are very well-known and used mostly by members here, so ranting there is almost equivalent to ranting here. I don't know if they rant about this site there, but they are allowed to rant. I haven't actually tried to access Cheryle's site yet, so I can't speak about it with authority.

"If you ran a business, would you let your customers sit in your store and proclaim to all of the customers coming in how much everything sucks? How everything is slow, how you don't think such and such was treated fairly, etc.?" Ah, but this site isn't promoted as strictly a business. Its promoted as a "Community". So lets call a spade a spade and end this talk of "Community". As you say, Rosity is strictly a business, set up to make money and draw in customers. Anything else is just wishful thinking on the members part and has no basis in reality. :)

You have a point, Spiritbro, but, if we spend most of our time trying to diffuse rant threads and debate threads and goverment theory threads, we have no time left over to hone our learning of the programs that are the reason for these forums, and can't help anyone. There is a point when a discussion is a discussion, like this, but, when things turn south, or there is a debate that needs to be watched for attacks and/or libel....well, that doesn't leave us time to even help people navigate the site, let alone help people with prospective problems ;) I know that, as artists, we can be a passionate people. I used to enjoy a good debate in the past, but, as of late, there are times when debates aren't so much debates but "I want you to see my point of view, and I will repeat it until you accept it." And that's not so much here as elsewhere, but it's stuff like that is the reason I've never participated in discussions in the Coop or RFI ;) I completely understand the need to rant, which is why I have my own blog ;). They can be very therapeutic, and a great way to get your point of view out there. We're all passionate about different things. I think that's awesome. Really, I do! I don't think I've ever viewed gallery and forum moderating as a "job" as much as a great learning experience for myself. There are some awesome members here and elsewhere that do fantastic work in the galleries and in the forums sharing information. That, IMHO, is what makes a community. shrug We all have different viewpoints. MS ;)

And that's not so much here as elsewhere clarification "here" meaning the 3D community, not just this site. As many of you, I've got other interests and memberships elsewhere ;)

Blink I am a bit confused here. A render was deleted from the galleries becuase of it's political nature? Has that happened? Have I missed something? If there has been a picture that has been removed, but doesn't violate the TOS rules concerning nudity or kiddy porn, I'd definitly like to see it. Side note to MorriganShadow: Renderosity is a business. The people who happen to post here are a community. It's Renderosity's country store, and we're just the old gaffers who sit around the stove or on the front pourch. Of course, we're also the ones with the money that the 'sity wants. Renderosity isn't the community, it's customers are. When Renderosity closes or is sold or just becomes so vanilla it's boring, the community will just go down the street to the next store that has free coffee and a warm atmosphere.

yes, a political image was removed... I have a copy of the image....and the comments posted. pretty low key, but it obviously has the potential to get a bit wild...but was not at tthe time. As far as TOS rules being broken, the way the TOS is written, any image that someone thinks has an issue could be pulled...its all in the interpretation, or how someone decides to intrepret the image and TOS.

Message edited on: 07/21/2005 20:37

Hmmmmmm

Dave, is it posted somewhere else so I can see it? I can live with censorship because of nudity or kiddy porn fears. I can see a site wanting to keep it's "family friendly" reputation. I can see not allowing polital debate in a forum meant for art, software, and more technical issues. I can't abide censorship in the galleries becuase of political content where the only debate is from comments about the picture. However, I make those decisions based only on what I see.

Yes, there was an image deleted, not from the Poser gallery, but it was deleted. It happened to be of a political nature, but it violated the TOS. I'm not going to state anything further, since the member was told why it was deleted. There are many images in the galleries that contain political rants that are allowed to stay, as they haven't violated the TOS. Child nudity and extreme sexual contents are not the only parts of the TOS that our members need to remember when posting images. There is also Copyright, Personal attacks/potential libel, torture, etc.

sigh I know that Renderosity isn't just a community, but also a MarketPlace. I haven't debated that. It's the members that make the community, and we, the staff, aren't just here to make sure the store looks good. We also have to do our best to facilitate a welcome place for members, both new and old, to come to learn, teach, and to make art. We, as staff, also have to do our best to keep content off the site that violates the TOS. There have been times when I, as a staffmember, have had to remove an image that I thought was wonderfully executed, but violated the TOS. There are also times when I've had to lock and delete threads that started out as great discussions, and ended up with two or three members arguing. And, yes, I have probably ticked quite a few members off. That, unfortunately, comes with any job with any authority. I didn't volunteer to lord anything over you guys. I volunteered to try to give back a little to the community (the entire art community, not just R'osity) that has given me so much. I'm not the best content creator. I don't make the most beautiful images on the planet. I'm one of the worst tutorial writers on the planet. But, I am a good mediator. I've had to do it all my life ;) I'm learning how to do my job better by having this discussion with you all ;).
Yes, Renderosity is a business. It is also a community. A small part of a HUGE 3D community. In communities, there are always disagreements with how they run. There's no such thing aa a Utopia ;).

MS *edited for clarity

Message edited on: 07/21/2005 20:50

it was brought to my attention that there may be a copyright issue with the image...perhaps not politically decided... I need to check on this part...if so, I truly apologize for bringing this up....if not....we will have a break-in from our regularly scheduled programming. pdxjims ... I will IM or email you

No apologies needed, Dave ;) I'm actually really enjoying this discussion ;). I don't get much of a chance to actually talk to you guys, so this is a nice change from random posts saying why this or that isn't allowed, etc. I need to do this more, lol. MS

Dave, if your gallery image uses a magazine scan, screencap from a movie, or an image downloaded from some website, then it's most likely a copyright issue.

Quote - Suppose emailing to admin@renerosity.com would at least be a start, but how can you get an uprising going if no one else knows there's a revolution ???

Revolution against Rendo is so last year. And the year before that and the year before that. Anyone who might have cared is long gone, or like me just lurks for info or item updates. Either way you're trying to stir up the sheep.

Don't waste your time. Accept the fact that this is Rendo's toybox, you play how they want you to and if you don't like it your only other choice baaa elsewhere. Message edited on: 07/22/2005 00:54

Probably is my bad english, but... ... why you fellows usually seem so ANGRY???

"... why you fellows usually seem so ANGRY??? " We're overworked, underpaid, have all our benefits taken away, all our jobs are being moved overseas, the value of the dollar is shrinking, most of us have inadequate healthcare, little Johnnie is using school textbooks from 1960, our food is full of chemicals, thus we have a chemical imbalance in our bodies, our government officials are corrupt, we can't drink the water anymore, can't eat fish because its full of mercury, and my Poser6 just crashed. And that's just this morning

But... 1.- The eternal topic of half-full bottle vs. half-empty bottle. I usually see the first one 2.- Thanks god is friday :D

you're right, Casette... I know I sometimes look at the negative instead of highlighting the positive...all is not bad for sure.

sometimes Casette it's not weather the glass is half empty or half full but who and why it's getting emptied.

Well, Dave-so, not knowing what the image looked like (and not being a lawyer), is it possible your image might qualify as a parady (and therefore excusable in some sort of copyright way)?

And in the "is it possible" category, if it was political in nature and upset the Renderosity gods, might a reason to remove the image have been manufactured (since there seems to be no TOS violation for removing an image purely due to political content)? [spelling edit]

Message edited on: 07/22/2005 07:24

sometimes Casette it's not whether the glass >> is half empty or half full but who and why >> it's getting emptied. And, of course, how toxic the industrial waste in it is, thanks to the "Sparkly Water --Yum!-- Act." M

sigh To clarify, the image did NOT qualify as a parody with the particular violation. Unfortunately, since we try to keep all violations between the staff and the member, I can't very well explain every detail of what went on, so, we will forever look like the evil villain. There are THOUSANDS of political images in the galleries, ChuckEvans. The ONLY reason they are pulled is if the truly violate the TOS. We're not just going to remove them and make something up. But, of course, because we don't do all of this in public, we still end up looking like the bad guy. If we did publicize every TOS violation, believe me, there would be no room to talk about anything else. There are many different galleries, and, sometimes it seems, almost one TOS violation per gallery per day!! The TOS hasn't changed AT ALL since the Child Nudity Guidelines were implimented, so, to be honest, I just don't understand why it's so hard to realize that copyright violations will be removed; torture will be removed; extreme sexual content will be removed; etc., etc., etc. sigh MS

If you ran a business, would you let your customers sit in your store and proclaim to all of the customers coming in how much everything sucks? How everything is slow, how you don't think such and such was treated fairly, etc.? Actually, I do run a real world small business. I have CNN on with the television facing the front window, all day long. People actually come in if a news bit catches their eye...and they talk about it. Generally, they come back in the form of a client, too. My motto is...you gotta get them in the door before you can sell them anything.

"so, we will forever look like the evil villain." This is true but this situation only arises when businesses use privacy to do things that are not quite "above board". In some cases, like Enron, there is an extreme example of not quite "above board". When profit quides a company, when ego gains too much of a foothold, there is a climate for doing things in private that are suspect. Sadly, more companys fall into this category instead of one of stoic integrity. Renderosity, in my opinon, and it's just an opinion, not a statement of fact, doesn't strike me as company with stoic integrity...especially considering the prohibition of artistic images utilizing certain props that were sold on the site...a discussion that used the word hypocracy more than once. Considering the Renda debacle and how it was handled (vs how it would have been handled had it been a meaningless merchant), Renderosity doesn't, in my opinion, represent the posterchild for business integrity. So, it wouldn't surprise me if images were removed because a person called down to the "guard tower" from the "big house" and said, "Find a way to get rid of that image...I don't like it." Now, having said that, I'm NOT saying Dave-so's image shouldn't have been pulled. I haven't seen it, and I'm not legally adept in the field of copyright problems. I would be stupid to say it shouldn't have been pulled. I would also be naive' to assume an image is NEVER pulled simply because one of the "bosses" found it personally disagreeable. I only suggested that, as far as I know, creating a parody enjoys a certain amount of legal latitude. sigh

Frankly, I don't worry about what the rules at Renderosity are or aren't.

I come here for software information, to download freebies, and to shop the marketplace.

And to divert my attention for a little while each day in the forums.

If I want to argue politics, then I'll go to the Chicken Coop and do it -- or I'll join Cheryle's site, and fight with people there. It's easy.

However -- these days, I have become less and less interested in engaging in such ultimately useless and time-wasting activity.

Not that my ideals aren't as strong as ever -- perhaps if I were to start my own blog, then I might aquire a following -- who knows?

But at the moment, I've got other priorities. And those priorities have nothing to do with dancing the same online dance with the same partners every night........a sort of symbiotic intellectual merry-go-round effect.......a ride that involves a lot of flash, color, and noise -- it expends a lot of energy -- but it goes nowhere in the end.

.........so if Rendo wants to lock/delete threads/posts/gallery images -- that matters very little to me.

I come here (and elsewhere) for what I want. And I leave the rest.

My life is in no way connected to the site's TOS, or to the enforcement thereof.

If you want to rant and rave, and insult people, host your own forum. If you want to post your controversial images that violate TOS, host your own forum.

XENO: clap ... as many times, daily forum members give EXCESSIVE importance to forum life... Ive seen this before...

Hmm... Sounds like a good business venture... "www.Rent-A-Rant.com"....rant site. (No, don't try it as a link; I just made it up: If it exists, I didn't know.) But it's a thought: @ 1$ per rant, it should bring in a few million per year..:-)) Cheers, Diolma

a few million...I think you're underestimating the potential :)

"rent-a-rant"? :blink: It will take a week to get an expedited copyright, but, by then, I should have a large enough server and fire insurance on it!