I think we have a lot of misunderstandings here. Iloco talks about export but in the last two comments he only spoke about bringing a vob from one machine to another. That is not export that i mean. Again, non of Alain Gracias models could be exported to another format in the past. As a lot others where the creators of those models have blocked this. Again, most Poser stuff for example. To Bruno, what you are facing is a bug indeed in the last update. I understood that this is the major reason for the new one that came out today. I haven't tested it yet so i don't know really how this works now. To Lin. You can download any item you have bought from Cornucopia 5 times. And you of course can change the destination - Vue 5 Esprit or Infinite while downloading it a second time. So you don't have to purchase it again. That is how I understood it and have done it already because i bought some of my items for Esprit but wanted them for Infinite. Contact an admin or a mod over there if there is a problem with that.

Wabe, not tyring to be pest. I'm not worried about the stuff that was ORIGINALLY a .vob. As Xiores has stated it is stuff either I created or stuff I have bought in other file formats & saved as .vob. OK????

Guess we don't understand one another wabe as I can not export some things I could a few updates back. I am not going to the trouble of trying to explain as you will come back with something to the effects I am wrong. Why is the store only catering to Vue I and Vue Espirit and not users of Vue 4, Vue Pro and so on. Don't e-on know ther are lots of users who have not bought later version of vue. I am sure some can not afford the price and some don't use it enough to justifiy the upgrades. I get the feeling that e-on is not listening to the consumers at all and will not change from their original plan to keep consumers who buy shackled like a criminal. Not speaking for anyone but myself so hope it don't upset anyone when I say it.

Don't forget, Cornucopia is one week old. The idea is to get other brokers in that of course can offer stuff for Vue 4 and all other versions. Even non Vue content is welcome. So we all as the Vue community are asked to make this place alive and interesting. Regarding the export ptoblems Iloco. I think we all agree that there are problems with the latest two updates before this one. As Lingrif has shown, there were always cases where export is forbidden. Always was forbidden to repeat it because nobody seems to read that. I repeat as well, maybe it is a contractional thing that companies don't want their stuff be exported from Vue. Poser stuff is something like that. But i will try it again, i still have 4 Pro installed on my machine and a pre cornucopia version of Infinite on another. We will see if export on these machines is allowed for everything - as you tell me it was. If you like to, send me a file to test that.

Attached Link: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5infinite/?Page=13

Yes it is confirmed we all agree there is major problems with export features in Vue. That is a known fact. :o(

wabe if its contracttional why can we export the plant collection that comes with the install of Vue Infinite
Also can export other collections that came with Vue Infinite.
All this started when the store opened and the encryption was forced on us in the updates.

Here is a small quote from the Vue Infinite Import/Export page that I have added link to.

Quote: "Full Object and Scene Export
Vue 5 Infinite lets you export content to other 3D applications in a wide variety of industry standard file formats such as Discreet 3DS, Wavefront OBJ, LightWave LWO, Cinema 4D C4D, AutoCAD DXF...

Easily export rocks, terrains, plants or even entire scenes! Complex geometries are automatically unwrapped with minimum distortion and exported complete with all UV mapping and texturing information. You can adjust the level of detail of exported geometries and texture maps.

Skies can be exported as skydomes or skycubes. Exported skies can include illumination data in HDR image format!

Basic object animation information (motion, scale and orientation) can be exported as 3DS or LightWave MOT/LWS.

And for even more flexibility, you can write custom import and export filters using Python scripting!"

Now is what I read contradictry to what is happening now.
Its like changing horses in the middle of the stream.

Message edited on: 08/07/2005 10:04 I do see where some objects can be blocked by 3rd party venders. Also read that ecosystems can not be exported. So is all the store objects going to be blocked. This might go along ways with things cooling down a bit. but I hope they do get what can be exported fixed so we back like its suppose to be. If we know all objects are to be block and encrypted from the store than I will know where to spend my money for objects I want to use in Vue.

Message edited on: 08/07/2005 10:16

lingrif,

the way the store was jigged before it was closed, and still is indeed, you can download a copy for each serial you have registered. So certainly, no you don't have to purchase a copy for each of your machines. I don't know what would happen if you had more than 5 registered copies of Vue, but I guess if you had that many copies something would be sorted for you.

"wabe if its contracttional why can we export the plant collection that comes with the install of Vue Infinite Also can export other collections that came with Vue Infinite." Maybe because here e-on owns the rights? I will do some more research tomorrow because i really would like to have had my hands on the latest update first to see what is going on there.

Attached Link: http://www.rodluc.com/download.htm

Debbie, maybe you go up a little bit and read Lingrifs test. Then you can see that this is not a new issue and that was all i tried to say. IT IS NOT A NEW ISSUE! And has nothing to do with Cornucopia beside the fact that the artists that are available there right now (I repeat, right now) together with e-on have decided to lock their items. I don't see any new policy from e-on to lock all content, i only see some restricted items that one can buy or not. And of course i see some technical problems with two updates that i and hopefully you too have reported to e-on. Complaining only in forums does not help to solve problems. It only raises emotions.

For cryin out loud, I'm just trying to help :(

Sorry Debbie, that was maybe why i spoke about emotions. See it in small letters especially for you!

This thread is becoming way to cumbersome & is getting more difficult to follow, as to who said what & when. I did report this to tech-support over E-ON.

Slow down wabe you getting upset I can see by your shouting. We are mature adults, No use raising your voice with us. You have answered my question I have asked so I will not be buying from the store if things are locked and encrypted, Never have and never will. I don't like to be treated like I am a pirate when all I got to do is download from peer to peer or newsgroups. No one it seems want to respect the honest who are trying their best to support the new store. Why is it that way. My last post about the store now that you finally gave the answer. I got a $50.00 voucher if I can transfer to anyone they welcome to it. I will stay away from store comments but will follow the threads about the problems with vue and export featues that we are suppose to be able to use that now are all messed up.

For what it's worth I just tried exporting all my old (V4) vobs as 3DS, I only had 6, and they all worked OK, so I just don't know why others can't.

Debby, Walther and I are only trying to help too. I am at Renderosity time +9 and Walther +10, so you might look at the times on his posts, and consider just how much he is putting himself out to try and help.

Thank you jwhitham, I've known Walther for a long time)Guitta day(god rest her soul) & well aware of his contributions to the forum :), as well as MANY others who have contributed to the knowledge base. That said, yelling is not the way to go :(. And I do beileve, we are ALL allowed to help & try to get this figured out, as well as other problems that crop up. But as far as I'm concerned there are no hard feelings and this episode is over & see no further reason to egg each one on.

This is not a pissing match, but it sure seems to be turning into one. Mine works, mine doesn't, Mine works, mine doesn't, Mine works, mine doesn't is getting no one no where.

I think we can all agree there is a problem, bottom line.

Message edited on: 08/07/2005 12:11

Let me try again to explain my position and why the thing is so confusing. Why some say it works, other it does not work etc etc. We see a Bermuda triangle here where a lot of clear view got lost. Corner one is Cornucopia3D with the encryption thing. This will stay i fear. Corner two is a bug in the last update where e-on tried to fix quickly another bug with Cornucopia3D encryption and went too far so more items were locked from export than before. This will be corrected, is already probably. Corner three are from export locked items. These were there since Vue allowed output (Vue 4 Pro). Nothing has changed there but maybe some did their tests with exactly some of those items.

In case you have not seen it: Today on the e-on Vue 5 i forum we get the official word on this update being released to the public prematurely: ------------------ Quote: (title of post)"Vue Infinite/Professional > New update in Updates for Vue Infinitie" "Hi Debby, Dale and William, unfortunately the patch was released to the public prematurely; the plan was that the admin/mod staff @ Cornucopia3D were going to put it through it's paces on both PC and MAC before releasing it. I'm not sure what happened that it appeared on the e-on update pages, most definitely I think it's a mis-communication somewhere. ChristieK Cornucopia3D Site Administrator/Moderator" ----------------- So at least that bit of the puzzle is now cleared up, and jwhitham was correct in post #18, which i disputed.

jc, I didn't notice you'd disputed what I said, is it too late to shout at you? :)

Well, i took pains to point out that i didn't understand your post because all the patch builds have been betas. Anyway, i always appreciate free entertainment, so it's never "too late", lol...

So the next question is; why no one at e-on close the update site! The update is still there. Not everyone visit forums to get a warning about a patch that look official. :/ Mazak

I never upgrade vue from the program. I enter in the Web of eon, download each version and And I record them in a CD. In consequence, I can revert to installing a upgradation previous,in this case I have reverted to version "Vue5Inf5.07FullUpd277255" which was the last build that seemed to have the best results.

I haven't installed any updates to my copy of V5I: beta or otherwise. And I'm not going to until this situation is straightned out.

On another note:

I haven't used my voucher yet, nor have I purchased anything from Cornucopia.

If the purchased content remains encrypted, then it's highly unlikely that I'll ever buy anything from that store.

Other than to use up the $50 voucher. But that'll probably be all of the business that I'll do there.

If I need plants, then I'll just buy them here at Rendo or at RDNA.

Get rid of the encryption scheme: and I might change my mind about doing business with Cornucopia. But until then, there are simply too many excellent non-encrypted models to be had elsewhere.

Encryption proves that one really likes one's models. Because the intent must be to keep the models entirely to oneself.

Or at least: that will be the result on this end.

FWIW: Eon just pulled 277944 from their site, the latest "offical" update is 277171 (5.07) and is currently the only one available.

XENO; The 'encryption' scheme is not like PGP, or anything of its ilk. Content purchased from e-on has =always= been encrypted. As in whatever you purchased was useless until you received a key from them that was derived from your installation code that you registered at the e-on website with (this is known as key encryption, and has been with us since forever in software time). You can give your Cornucopia executables to someone else if you choose, but they won't -install- except on the version of Vue they were downloaded for. The encryption scheme is nothing more than an automation of the previous installation key scheme (with the added caveat that if someone posts them on usenet or a P2P network, the key added to the .exe at download time can be used to trace who bought it initially. No more intrusive than a content maker creating a pattern in a polygon mesh to allow them to identify their work). -All- they have done is automate the process, so you don't have to wait 1-3 days for an email with your reg code for new content to be useable.

Dale I don't want this to be taken as a flame but only as a friendly question.
Why is none of the plants in the plant collection and same goes for objects that come with the install of vue not encrypted when everyone says its only what we buy from e-on.
Either way the plants and objects are bought either with Vue or as a single plant specie.
Why can they trust us with some plants and objects and not others.
Just curious for an answer.

Want get into the peer to peer stuff but I think you know better about it than what your comment said. Thats enough said about it.

Message edited on: 08/08/2005 18:37

Well I have now tryed to load some the vue objects that I once could export and now can not export. I can still export the vue plants that are in plants collection. I am wondering if this will be locked for export also. I have a qwuestion about A Garcias models. In Vue 4 I could not find a way to export so why would he have locked the objects knowing that was the case. Seems all this started with Vue 5. I sure wish we could get back to the Vue I thought I had bought to do landscapes with and not be a back door to a store. Why can the store not be linked with a browser for those who want to use the store and let us who only want Vue the software as it was originally intended to be. Is this to much to ask.

iloco; (a) The realtime key encryption scheme is new tech for e-on; it didn't exist when the content for Vue 4 was fielded. And remember that said content has been part of the install from Vue 4 through to Infinite. It has been paid for many hundreds of time over, as opposed to new content, that has development costs attached. (b) The 'encryption' is not some draconian scheme to keep anyone from exporting a scene; it is nothing more than an automation of the registration code scheme. File exporting is broken due to problems introduced in the 5.08 patches, and there were some server side issues with the new content as well. I can not say it any clearer. While they interacted to break things, these are two entirely separate issues. (c) This has nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with trying to protect their IP rights. (d)"I have a qwuestion about A Garcias models. In Vue 4 I could not find a way to export so why would he have locked the objects knowing that was the case." This you would have to ask Alan about. Those are his models, and so far as I know, -he- was the one who set all the parameters. (e) "I sure wish we could get back to the Vue I thought I had bought to do landscapes with and not be a back door to a store. Why can the store not be linked with a browser for those who want to use the store and let us who only want Vue the software as it was originally intended to be. Is this to much to ask." Er? I think you have confused Vue with Poser, m'friend. There is =NO= interconnection with the Cornucopia store whatsoever; you do -not- have to be online to use content purchased there. What on earth gave you that idea?

Er? I think you have confused Vue with Poser, m'friend. There is =NO= interconnection with the Cornucopia store whatsoever; you do -not- have to be online to use content purchased there. What on earth gave you that idea? Sorry Dale My mind was in another room and wasn' thinking. You are right. At lest with poser we can remove the links to paradise content if we don[t want to use them. I have removed mine and use browser. That said quote: (b) The 'encryption' is not some draconian scheme to keep anyone from exporting a scene; it is nothing more than an automation of the registration code scheme. File exporting is broken due to problems introduced in the 5.08 patches If that be true then I am still having problems with exporting even with the install of the rolled back update today. You say scene and not object. Is that what you ment. To not get confused I am talking about not being able to export objects I once could export. I give up with trying to get my points across and will sit back and let others do it for me. I get the feeling all has done been agreeded on with e-on and its staff and same for store of what will be and we the consumers will never be listened to and are only trouble makers who e-on would like to see go away.

Dale_B --

Thank you for the lucid explanations. That clears up some misunderstandings.

Based upon the numerous posts that I've been browsing for the last two days, I'd gotten the idea that scene export to other apps wouldn't be allowed with any purchased Cornucopia content. If that were true, then I wouldn't be interested in purchasing such content.

If I am interpeting your statements correctly: once the "broken update" problem gets fixed, then it will be possible to export Vue scenes -- complete with Cornucopia content -- into other applications.

Is this correct? Thanks.

(d)"I have a qwuestion about A Garcias models. In Vue 4 I could not find a way to export so why would he have locked the objects knowing that was the case." This you would have to ask Alan about. Those are his models, and so far as I know, -he- was the one who set all the parameters. Didn't e-on make this intentionally so? Because there wasn't a way to export models in Vue d'Esprit 4 - and likely no parameters to lock objects from export - when they introduced export in Vue 4 Professional they had to make it impossible to export models made in earlier versions. Has anyone ever really exported one of his own previous vob models? Because I have never been able to. That said, can't they get the suppliers to the cornucopia store to supply their models without restrictions or in different formats? Or at least show a clear warning if a model can't be exported, for example if it was created in Vue4 or earlier. (Maybe they already have, but I haven't really seen the cornucopia store yet, as it has been down for servicing ever since I first saw the opening anouncement!)

A garcia models may be lock for export but unlike what the store models are going to be one can use them on any computer that has vue installed. I have them all on CD and can take with me where ever I go and use them if it be at my daughtes or at a public library if they have vue installed. The store models are going to be tied to the one copy of vue if I understand all this correctly and will not let one export either. I wish e-on would step forward and fully explain some of these questions as I think a lot of them are just hear say and no one really understands. Dales explanation of a lot of things I can understand but wabes way of explaining has a lot to be desired sometimes. Guess its because Dale lives close to me and Wabe doesn't and there is a big difference with how thinks are said and understood within the two countrys.

XENO; To some extent, yes. We are still getting clarification on this matter ourselves. There is also the caveat that content -creators- can set their content to be non-exportable, irregardless. It is not just e-on; anyone who creates content can set it to be non-exportable. There will be limits, and some outright locking of content; the existance of the DMCA and similar international laws makes that inevitable, unless e-on =wants= to go bankrupt due to infringement lawsuits.... :/

martians; "Didn't e-on make this intentionally so? Because there wasn't a way to export models in Vue d'Esprit 4 - and likely no parameters to lock objects from export - when they introduced export in Vue 4 Professional they had to make it impossible to export models made in earlier versions. Has anyone ever really exported one of his own previous vob models? Because I have never been able to. That said, can't they get the suppliers to the cornucopia store to supply their models without restrictions or in different formats? Or at least show a clear warning if a model can't be exported, for example if it was created in Vue4 or earlier. (Maybe they already have, but I haven't really seen the cornucopia store yet, as it has been down for servicing ever since I first saw the opening anouncement!)" Exactly. What has gotten people confused is that the broken 5.08 update also broke the export function for content you imported yourself. That is a good idea about the warning/info flag on the content; I'll drop that into the list of store-related glitches-cool ideas to consider. It would save some brimstone for other, more needed purposes at the very least.... :P

Explain why other 3rd party vendors like Daz Rdna can allow exports of 3ds and lightwave objects to be used in any application that can import them but e-on can not without facing law suits. Something just don't add up with what you all are telling us.

iloco; "quote: (b) The 'encryption' is not some draconian scheme to keep anyone from exporting a scene; it is nothing more than an automation of the registration code scheme. File exporting is broken due to problems introduced in the 5.08 patches If that be true then I am still having problems with exporting even with the install of the rolled back update today. You say scene and not object. Is that what you ment. To not get confused I am talking about not being able to export objects I once could export." As far as I know, once things are repaired, you -will- be able to export those items you used to. Don't expect the rollback to fix the problem currently there; I haven't heard of anyone who has succeeded in that, short of a reinstall and updating to 5.07. There was some kind of corruption in the rollback files; it seems to work, but some of the trouble is still there (namely locked exporting). As for wabe.... Well, of course we think differently. I'm Windows. He's Mac. (rimshot). :P

"lol" Glad to know thats what the problem with wabe.
Maybe I need to get a mac and put vue on it. :) NOT btw: You didn't answer my comment in thread 85. I see now we got another update in updates at e-on. Yesterday it was back to build 277171. this morning its build 277859. Why is it that e-on can not post when they put a different update in updates on either this forum or at least in the forums on e-ons site and explain a little to the users what is taking place. They have bad communications with their consumers who stay in the dark most of the time. It would be a big help if they would drop in and give us an idea of what is taking place once in a while.

Message edited on: 08/09/2005 08:01

Yeah, good to know what my problem is. I will work on it - mostly in fact i do, i make my money with the Mac. I just want to give a some good news - i am on holiday from tomorrow on. Isn't that wonderful? BUT, i already can tell you that in my answer #357 to this thread you will find all the dirty secrets...

Still no one to answer my comment in thread 85. :o) "lol" Glad I done made my money and it wasn't using a pc or a mac. I would went broke if I had tryed. :o) I am sure there are some dirty secrets that I would like to hear about even before thread #357.

Dale_B -- Thanks again for your answers. Your responses have helped to clear the air a bit. I'll be watching Cornucopia to see what e-on does. If they handle this the right way, then I'll be more than happy to give out kudos where appropriate.

iloco; Now that I'm home from work..... ;) Why not ask DAZ and the folks at RDNA directly? You might be surprised by the answers you get...

XENO; Well, we're doing our best to see that they get a clearer picture of the general concerns than might otherwise be discernable..... :P

Not sure how to take you answer Dale. That is not what I asked. I wanted an answer from the Vue people Why they not doing like Daz or Rdna and reason to be afraid of being sued. Doesn't the same work for them as Vue is what I am trying to find out. :) Why would I be surprised when I know how their files work on my computer.

iloco; It's simple. You are making some rather large assumptions as to what a couple of significant content providers allow. You do not 'own' DAZ content; all you have done is purchase a users liscence, nothing more. Same with DNA, Rosity, Rotica, 3DCC, and every other content provider out there. If asked point blank, any or all could say that they do -not- permit file format shifting. For that matter, such a statement could be buried in the EULA. For an -official- Eon word, you would have to talk to an Eon employee; I'm just a forum mod. And the difference is that DAZ and RDNA are -content providers-. E-on is an applications house. There's nothing you can do with content without an application to do something with. If that application makes performing unwanted or illegal actions possible, then the applications maker -can- be held liable for damages. The RIAA and MPAA have been using that 'enabling' attack to go after all and sundry (remember DecCSS and DVD Jon?). Does is make sense? Not particularly. But with the extremely poorly written DMCA and more recent laws and precedents in hand, it is a very real danger. How real would require an attorney familiar with copyright and trademark law.

All I can say is it still doesn't make sence at all to me and all this rambling to throw one off subject just makes it get worst. For me its not worth getting a lawyer to explain. I cna only see DAz and others making money when e-on will be going broke with their way of doing busines and trying to force control on its consumers. No need to post reply trying to explain anymore I get the drift of what you telling me. :(