Greetings, all!

Those of you who have registered @ Cornucopia3D will know that the store has been offline for a week, while the e-on technical team work on new Vue releases, and we tweak both the store and the content. Unfortunately, the Vue releases that were designed to make Cornucopia3D content more easy to install and use broke a bunch of things in the releases.

We planned on reopening the store today (Wednesday), at 11 am Pacific US time, but the Cornucopia3D team is still deeply involved in beta testing for the techs, and we feel there are still a few issues to be worked. Rather than reopen prematurely, we will be keeping the store offline for a few more days to give us and the e-on folks time to get things right.

We apologize once again for the delay, and any inconvenience this may have caused you, but we will be sending out a newsletter update soon and hope to be ready for the store to blast off soon. The forums and galleries are open, and we encourage everyone to stop by and participate in the community.

Thanks for you patience and understanding!
ChristieK
Cornucopia3D Site Administrator/Moderator

rofl! That means I can not use my purchased object a further week! Mazak

Should be back in a matter of minutes, now, if I'm not confused with time zones!

Is all this havoc because e-on is trying to put a content paradise into the vue program?

I'm afraid so, lanaloe! Oh, now I got it: store still closed for a few days! Take your time and come up with something good, and E-on: guess you're fixing a new patch for the reopening of the store, hope this one will fix everything, and won't break what's still correctly working!

I'd like to have vue back as it was intended and the heck with the store. I bought Vue as a lanscape application and not a backdoor to a store that you got to have a key before you can use the items. :( I hope they realize their mistake as poser did and get that junk out of vue and concentrate on making it a better application for those of us who like the application. I know some are tired of hearing this again but just my two cents and I think I deserve the right to give it since I servered my country 4 years(Viet Nam 63-67) to have this right and freedom of speech.

You have an even greater right than serving your country to speak your mind, iloco - you spent your hard earned cash on something that is suppose to give you enjoyment and work as advertised. Cheers

Iloco,

when you first bought Vue, you couldn't export anything. Recently export capabilities have been added, and that raises a need for the recognition of the rights of those who created the content, how does that stop it being a landscape application?

You always needed a key, sent by e-mail, to unlock any items bought from e-on, the only change is that the process has been automated.

Who has tried to stop you exercising your right to free speech, I certainly haven't noticed anyone doing so?

@ jwhitham: Export capabilities were one of the new features, largely advertised of Infinite. Now E-on wants to take it back on the items they intend to sell. People selling their stuff through RDR, 3D commune, Turbo squid or any online store never intended it to be specific to one application only, let alone one license only. Why should E-on do any differently? And why should E-on care so much about copyrighting something they don't own anyway? Shouldn't the copyrights belong to the owners of the product, instead of the store that sells the product?

A few on other boards have said they didn't like the complaining and I am sure I don't have to mention names or the boards. I can if you wish. Just took my frustration out here I guess. You are right about Vue 4 but what about Vue pro and Vue infinitie. We have our vobs we saved from those now locked. Yes I do understand you and others who are with e-on and the store about what can and cannot be locked or encrypted. I am most frustrated that instead of working to solve problems or bugs in Vue itself e-on has now spent countless hours trying to make it work with a store and its encryption. All this wasted time could have been spent on the software itself and help some that really need it fixed. Memory leaks, animation problems, other problems I have read about on other forums. I am sure the tech support at e-on is trying their best to work with people but sometimes you can get more than a handful of people can handle. When the store isn't opened on the dates as advertised it tells me there are more problems with either the store, or Vue and its code that isn't working as suppose. We shall see what take place when the new update and the store opens to see if e-on has Vue fixed. I surely hope so. Vue is all I want fixed as I have tons of stuff to use with it unless it gets locked. There are plenty of places to buy nice models and plants that are not locked. I still think we are being treated as criminals who e-on or who every is over the store thinks as well. Like I say its just my gut feeling and everyone else can think as they like. :) I went to a friends house today and we did a search on a peer to peer to see how many versions of Vue were there that were cracked and could be downloaded. Every version that has been out by e-on was on the site and all were cracked along with many other things. You can put as much encryption or locked code as you like in the software but remember there are some a little smarter with it than who made it to work. If it can be made it can be cracked. I try to support any software I like and use but what e-on is doing is only going to turn people away and use cracked versions instead of buying is how I see it. Has anyone really thought about honesty and its customers. Have someone check my accounts at poser, Daz, Rdna and renderosity and see how much I have spent in the last couple years. Will I do the same with encrypted stuff. NO. I would have liked to had the vue plants but because of them being locked I only bought one because of a project I needed it for a that time. I opted to order xfrog cd's that I can use that can be exported if need be. Now those exports are blocked with bad code due to a roll back so code would need reword for the store. Just fix Vue Infinitie as its advertised and I will be happy.

And why should we see items for buying when we use the import button that we don't own? And why do we have to wait for them to implement this program web store before they fix the bugs in vue? Their priorities are not in line to the customer. I shouldn't have to wait this long to use vue and the new trees I bought. It is depressing.

Bruno,

e-on has restricted export for items sold at Cornucpia if the authors of those items so wish, how is that taking something back?

Neither I, nor you, can really know how vendors at Turbo Squid et al intended their creations to be used, that's pure speculation.

Why care about other people's copyright? Apart from the obvious moral point, so you don't get sued is a fairly good reason.

Who is going to sue somone for a $1.98 item or for that matter a $20.00 item. Would take a fool is all I can say. I think most lawyers start at like $250.00 and hour or mine does. Use littel common sense everyone. Who is sueing those on the peer to peers who have cracked the many versions of Vue and any software that has been put out for the public to buy.

It might be more likely that a class action law suit will be presented to e-on if this continues.

jwhitham...once you start worrying more about people who work for you (i.e. content creators), than you do your customers, you then start to lose favour with your customers. It goes for any business and that is why there is the saying "the customer always comes first" and when directly in contact with the customer "the customer is always right". Its a basic business principle. E-on worried more about content creators than the effect of their actions on the customer...the result = E-on dropped the ball and are now having to work twice as hard to gain back respect and trust from customers that have been affected by their actions. Cheers

Vendors selling obj, 3ds, lwo, c4d and such formats sell to any person owning one or more software importing those formats, there are no restrictions. How do I know? Because I bought some.

Well, it looks like we'll all get a chance to give e-on our opinion because they have posed on the Cornucopia site that they are re-evaluating how it will work and are sending out a newsletter/poll. That will be interesting. I think it's a good step in the right direction

John where did I say it was ok to steal. Why do people like to twist things to make it seem different than what was said. Tell me where you read I said its ok to steal. I only stated facts and can give to anyone who thinks I made the statement up. For your information it was a warez version of Vue I used the first time to see what Vue was all about. No I didn't download it but was able to use on another persons computer. That person evently bought Vue Pro from e-on. After seeing I like Vue I then order me a copy from e-on and have bought Vue Pro and upgraded to Vue Infinite. Does this make me a crook. Tell me. I was only showing that no matter what e-on does or any other software there will be someone who will crack the code and put it up on peer to peer so anyone that knows how can download and use it. e-on is treating its loyal and paying customers like they are crimanals is what I am saying by locking software that customers have bought and paid for.

Thanks lin. I hope everyone realized what happened to poser and how they took out the code and all were happy and able to use the software as it was intended to be used.
Waht forum was the announcement in. I didn't see anything about a poll or maybe I was looking in wrong forum.

Message edited on: 08/17/2005 17:44

John you didn't have to remove your thread about asking me if it was alright to steal. I posted my reply to your comment above in thread # 18

the announcement was at the Cornucopia store main page.

I knew I needed my glasses changed so guess its sooner than later now. :) Thanks lin, I found it.

lanaloe77; No. There is no integrated web browsing system in any build of Vue, nor is that being worked on to my knowledge. Period, end of sentence. I can not say it any plainer. Certain People are determined to confuse Vue with Poser and Content Paradise, and it simply is not so. Cornucopia is a separate website and store, just like Rosity, PP, DNA, Rotica, etc. EveryOne Else; The very first 5.08 patch =BROKE= the export and save capabilities. That is the fifth time I have said this here, so pay attention. That is why those patches were pulled, and the current available build is the last 5.07 patch. If you saved an imported model as a vob in Vue D'esprit 4 you are out of luck. The ability to export did not exist in Vue 4 (save for terrains), and there was a change in the file format to =allow= export when Vue4Pro came out. If that new format metadata is absent, the file is locked from export. Any of you who want to experiment, ask someone with Vue4Pro to use the scene converter program that was included. Just make sure you have a copy of what you are converting, as that process more often than not destroyed the scene. Now. Repeat after me. There Is No Sneaky Spy Encryption. What there -is- are REGISTRATION CODES. E-on has been treating =ALL= the content they create and sell as separate software products...and with items like plants justly so, as no one else can properly use them in native format (Solid Growth is what is known in the biz as proprietary technology). The only thing that is changed with C3D is that instead of downloading a new plant and waiting 1 to 3 days for an email with your 20+ character reg code (one for each new item, might I add) keyed off of your registration code at E-on, that same code is embedded in the installer, eliminating the multiple window reg code copy dance. That is all the so called 'encryption' does. Exactly the same as entering your reg code in Windows, or when installing almost any software application. I realize that it is something of a Rosity tradition to create a firestorm out of a wet match in a toilet, but this constant retelling of untruths that have been politely explained time and time again is....less than creative, frankly.

Dale I understand every word you have said and you are right. Now answer why the e-on store has to be different than the stores at Renderosity, Das, 3dplanit just to name a few. What makes the e-on store so different it has to have its content locked or let me rephrase that. Why for the few vendors that want therir content locked. Seems its only vendors at new store that is wanting a lock on some their products. This is where I think is the biggest problem and that code should be left out of Vue if its going to cause all these problems. How many weeks now since no new update for vue. With all this work of trying to get Vue to work with the store encryption has set most vue users back if they had projects they were working on. All this time could have been spent on Vue only and maybe we could had a few updates under our belt with some of the bugs out of vue. But no we are back farther now then when all this started with that version of update that really messed up Vue. Now be honest and answer would that have happened if the store and encryption had not been envolved.

Well, I'm out of luck, as I suspected :(, glad I wasn't holding my breathe. That really is too bad :(. Very unhappy at this point. Now then, 1 question. Lets say, I re-build/re-convert all my stuff back to .vobs. When Vue updates again ie 6/7/8/9 etc., are they going to be locked & will I have to re-do again, again & again? Based on how they change things? It's a pity they couldn't implement something like other programs do, ie Poser etc etc, where your older stuff is usable in the upgrades(exports), funny how atmos are exportable. Maybe they could look into something like Bryce does. You can't export ORIGINAL .obps but Bryce does recognize if the object was brought in thru another file format & lets you re-export it back out. Another words, if you import an object in 3ds(others) format, save as .obp, and want to re-export Bryce say OK, I see this item was converted. Hope I explained this OK. Can't imagine it would be that difficult. And it sure would make a lot oof people happy :) Debby - the saddened & disgruntled :(

Vance, I think the main argument here is that, yes it is ok and good for e-on to try things new and innovative, but not to use paying customers for that. Leave that to the beta testers...and if the beta testers can't find glaring bugs, then get reliable beta testers. If it's not the beta testers then E-on should look at themselves and their beta policy. Actually I say E-on, but the same goes for Cornucopia3D or any other software manufacturer. And the reason we are still talking about this?...because somebody hasn't done their job properly and their mistake has been bad enough to make fair and law abiding software customers angry....can't imagine any warez users being made to feel angry about what has happened. Lets hope the problems get sorted out soon so the world can be full of happy Vue users again... Cheers

Dale, I think you explained it very well. Thank you.

Ohhh, iloco....I totally agree with your sentiments about wasted time that could have been spent walking forward improving rather than just fixing something that has set everybody back. Hopefully another lesson learnt....we will have to see :/ Cheers

I know I'm spitting in the wind here. Of course my gripe is somewhat different than the others. Would if E-Frontier had done this. For example, I've got PoserPP, I upgrade to Poser5 only to find all my PPP stuff was locked & I had to redownload/re-intsall all my PPP stuffage o.O. My word, the cry that would go out be heard worldwide. This is tame compared to what be happening in the Poser forum. Believe me, I'd be right in there griping as well. I realize, not many people have the same issue I have, as there a lot of new users that don't have a library that has built up over 2 years. I realize some people don't care, I have very limited to play as it is and getting more limited due to work & people quitting. So rather than making pictures I have to re-install etc etc & keep waiting for the dynamics to be fixed :( You ask why re-install, well I like to see exactly what I have....just looking at names is mind boggling and hundreds at that. In addition, Vue likes .vobs better memory wise. Soooooooooooo...............

I hope the newsletter will be in plain and simple to understand terms when its sent for us to vote. :o) dlk I understand and I have a bunch of cd's with saved vue files that are now useless for me. Took a lot of time and work to get them the way I have them and then this comes along so we can not use anymore.

Message edited on: 08/17/2005 19:17

I have just had a look at the Brockerage section on C3D and it seems that there will be more than one way for us to buy content from there(C3D). It will be up to the person selling there content how they wish to sell it, i.e they will be able to put it on the store in more than one format. If they use vue's vob format it will be encripted also it can be locked or unlocked (depending on which vue version), they can also put there content on the site in the more generic formats 3DS OBJ ect which will not be locked, it all depends on how they want there content used and the amount money they wish to make. Just a couple of observations.

Quote "it all depends on how they want there content used and the amount money they wish to make"

Exactly - Now that Vue is going to de dealing with the "big" boys, IMHO it would behoove the vendors to be open. After all Vue is touting that full scenes can be exported into many other programs. To some, who find out otherwise, based on locking, I doubt they will be happy. At least for informational purposes they need to add into the description where it is clearly seen, if the item is locked or not, no surprises.

For me personally, I already have 40+gigs of Poser stuff, so my needs are 99% met already.

Message edited on: 08/17/2005 20:58

Well, I understand E-ons reasoning. It's simple to see. They want to protect any VUE CONTENT sold through their "store" so that it cannot be shared by the purchaser. Each product is tied to your Vue serial number if I read this correctly. Wonderful.. I don't supposs the "store" will carry 3DS, Poser, or Lightwave products as they "can't" be tied to a Vue serial number? First off, the "store" should plainly state this in simple english or whatever lanquage you use. Second, I bought VUE as a product ( This includes Vue4, Vue5, and Vue Infinite). I did not but it for a "store" account with E-on. Any other software I but for any other software comes with it's own installation code. I don't mind. I print it our and save it. It's not tied to Poser,3DS,Lightwave, or any other software. It's tied to (Encrypted) to the individual product I bought. Be it a tree, a plant, or an object. Now, if Vue is going to attempt to make each Vue Product sold apply to a the Vue registration key, that definate means that product can only be used and modified by the individual owner within VUE. It cannot be exported or modified outside of the VUE program. It is VUE specific. Unusable in any other software product. That is not going to sell many products, especially if most other products allow the exporting of their products into VUE but Vue does not reciprocate. I be be totally wrong. If so, I apologize. Just tell me the vob file I purchase and modify can be exported. If it can't, and can only be used in Vue it is worthless to me.

Dale I find your post rude and inaccurate. I don't know how much you really know or remember but at a time Cornucopia was explained as such:

New Cornucopia3D items are constantly downloaded from the Cornucopia3D website (www.cornucopia3d.com) and added to your collections (unless you have disabled this feature), so that your content always remains up-to-date.

You can elect to show or hide the Cornucopia3D items anytime by pressing the Hide online items button () in the toolbar below the list of collections.

Cornucopia3D items are identified by a little pictogram () that is visible in the bottom-right corner of the items preview. These items need to be downloaded before you can use them. If you load a Cornucopia3D item, the Cornucopia3D Item dialog will popup to provide additional information about the item, including the file size and cost of the item (most of the Cornucopia3D items are available for a small fee, but some of them are available at no charge). When you register your copy of Vue, e-on software will automatically credit your Cornucopia3D account with a welcome voucher. That way, you can start picking the Vue content of your choice for free!

This sounds to me like content paradise. What say you?

We understand that videodv. Thats what is messing up Vue and its updates because it has to have code that will read the encryption. Its been 3 weeks now and all we have had is busted upgrades and backups to older upgrade when we should have been going forward with vue application to get some the bugs out and be a better program to work with. We can't save vobs now and export them and there are other bugs that should have been fixed and updates released for them. If this goes forward then how many more rollbacks will we have and loose time with vue. Its only a hobby for me but I can see how a professional would be up the creek without a paddle so to speak. I quit using vue Infinite after trying to get a couple problems solved with tech and was getting nowhere with my request. I think they are so busy with this encryption and store trying to get it to work they don't have time to give 100% to Vue the software.

I was off line for a couple of days so I was lucky and missed the updates that are causeing the problems and I am still able to do what I was doing without problems. I feel for all of you that are haveing problems and I am with you when you say to E-ON get it fixed asap so we can all get back to doing what we like to do best. After hearing all the talk about encryption/locking ect over the last week or so I thought I would go to the sorce so to speak an see for myself what the setup is. And I must say a fair bit I have heard is just not true or misrepresented (basted on what I have read myself) and seems to be so because a lot of people did not realise that content providers both free and paid for could and did lock there products from export. As I said above only vue vob content will be encrypted and that there will be non vue vob (3ds, obj ect) unlocked content on the site I shall like most people make up my own mind when I come to buy some content what version I shall purchase. I also agree that vue should be spending as much time as possible getting the gliches out of Infinite so we can all work with this great proggie with confidence. Just a few thoughts of my own.

Quote "After hearing all the talk about encryption/locking ect over the last week or so I thought I would go to the sorce so to speak an see for myself what the setup is. And I must say a fair bit I have heard is just not true or misrepresented (basted on what I have read myself) and seems to be so because a lot of people did not realise that content providers both free and paid for could and did lock there products from export."

Well, most of the stuff(97%) was created in Vue4 & was auto-locked by E-ON...the authors of older stuff didn't have an option available to lock stuff in Vue 4, it just was. BIG difference in the old versus the new. I have found the newer stuff(freebies) from TROC/Czarneyrobert(xmas only-that was created in V4P) is not locked, when the option was available.

That said, I've been lucky so far in contacting a couple vendors I've bought stuff in .vob format(Vue4) and they are willing to re-create it in an exportable format. So that's another option. I have found them to be kind & more than willing to accomodate.

Message edited on: 08/17/2005 22:04

lanaloe77; Yes, there is an -option- to check for new content in your general preferences settings. But there is no always-on integrated web browser as there is in Content Paradise. And to my knowledge, the content option is not hot at C3D. There have been no requests to test this feature, or any indication that this feature is even -implemented- at the current time.

It has been said quite a few times that most old content from vue and on license by vue is locked, I was talking about new content from vue and providers other than vue.

Once again, let's try to not jump to conclusions. Here is a summary of the situation so far : 1- e-on experimented with a system that embeds a license key inside content from Cornucopia, in an attempt at simplifying validation of the content (the current system with purchased plants requires to enter a license key for each plant you install... I have done that for 3 re-install so far, I for one would welcome the encrypted files if they can remove that step). 2- The update they released for the launch of the site turned out to be flawed and resulted in .vob files being locked or unreadable. They said they are working on fixing that. 3- The option to lock content has been available since Vue 4. It is a separate issue from the ecryption of a license key inside files. It appears that too was affected by the update. 4- They shut down the site since the launch and have announced that a newsletter and a poll regarding how the site should work will be sent out shortly. Please try to keep your discussions from degrading into fights like 'he said, she said' or I will have to 'moderate' the discussion :) Software is a delicate business. These kind of things happen. For example, I just had Norton Firewall lock down any email I get from Outlook for the past 4 weeks (after receiving an automated update). I had to disable their firewall and use Windows XP firewall instead because of that.

Any idea when the newsletter with the poll will be sent. There was no mention on the front page of the new stores site. Can anyone please tell me why those vendors want their content locked when other sites like Daz, Rdna and all the other sites don't have to do this to sell their contents. It just don't make sense we got this one little store that is so different than all the other stores. :)

Because they want to try to do something about content theft ? Because the other stores don't want to do something about that ? or can't ? Because they want to give content providers the option to lock their content if they want to ? Because they can ? I am not part of e-on's board or whatever structure they have to decide how to run their business. I am not sure anyone on this forum is part of that structure either.... so I would venture to say that we will not know the reason they want to do things differently.

Thank you agiel. I still say its impossible to fight content theft if any of the warez kids want to crack the code. I will support the store if its like all the others and buy content but not when its locked and they don't trust me after I buy the product. Thats how I feel about it and how others feel is up to them. :) I guess you don't know when the newsletter will be sent to registered members as I asked. Maybe one the mods from the store will know and let us know. Just curious is only reason for asking. :)

Quote "The option to lock content has been available since Vue 4." Are you sure that wasn't for Vue4Pro? When I imported my 3ds/lwo/obj files I did not lock them. No need to, since V4 didn't export objects. Getting ready to re-load Vue4. Don't want to argue, just checking ;)

That's correct. I meant Vue 4 Pro. As for the newsletter, I am as much in the dark as you are iloco.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Still loaded it up anyway, going OOOOOOOOO, maybe I can unlock(a shot in the dark). ~sigh~ wishful thinking. Back to reality now :( and off to shop.

I'm with Iloco. Anti-piracy schemes are always a balance between protecting the software and inconveniencing the customer. In this case, it's way out of balance. The inconvenience to the customer is way out of line for the protection E-on gets.

The anti-piracy scheme prevents users from using the stuff as they need to. But, near as I can tell, it doesn't prevent piracy. Yes, you need to be a legit buyer to run the installer. But after the installer is run, you can put the veg files anywhere you want. At least, I did. I accidentally downloaded the wrong version, as many of us did, and simply moved the files over the version I wanted to use the plants in. It works fine. (If this is illegal, I'll undo it. Never occurred to me that it might be, until this mess.)

It seems pretty silly to invconvenience customers to such an extent, when it's so easy to get around the "protection."

Seems I missed the chaos apparently. I haven't been doing much 3D stuff in Vue as of late so I hadn't updated to this cornicorpia3D version I guess. Seems to me though that as Iloco and Cheers said, priority would be on stable features and not on whether we can advertise our products in your software, while wrecking havoc to do it. I have Vue, Poser and Lightwave and I use them interchangably, so I would not really want to buy a Vue only item for the same price as a regular item that could be used in all of them. Wouldn't that also affect the whole concept of being able to export scenes into Lightwave 9 that Vue I understand is now going to be bundled with?

I support an artists right to curb content theft, but frankly these systems rarely stop the pirates, and wind up just pissing off the customers that legally buy the products...And if the artist is willing to release the item in another format anyway, then what's the drama?

e-on wants it to work too hence the delays, so give 'em time and be patient, let em work it out.

Yes, but how long should we be patient. I stopped using vue 19 days ago because of the problems. I am not about to reinstall the program and the update roll back features doesn't work. This feels terribly long & unfair.

I ahve done the same untill we get a good update.

I am curious why there has been no post at C3d store or on any the forums when the survey will be sent to registered users.
How hard is it to ask a question and have registered users to answer it yes or no.
Seems like we in a time warp. :)

I have been wondering how the survey will work. Does e-on wait untill all register users send an answer back.
I am sure there a lot that have Vue that don't even know there is a store involved with it and have been having problems.
Its like shadowind said he didn't know about all these discussions and what has been taking place.
I am sure no matter the outcome there will be some who will not be happy.
Why don't e-on listen to the customers who are posting in forums and on e-ons site and decide what is best for them.
If I were e-on I would be asking myself where do I get my money. Is the store going to bring in enought to justify having people quit upgrading and buying Vue.
I personaly think e-on should focus on what it sold to its consumers first and that is Vue. It is my favorite program and I would like to see it made better and new updates that address the bugs that are in it now.
To many other stores to worry about C3d and especially with all the locks and encryption that others don't have.
If there is going to be a store then get it the same as the others and leave Vue how it use to work away from it.
Get vue back to what we bought and as it was advertised.

Message edited on: 08/19/2005 15:32