I got Miki yesterday and tried her out. Good points-- the face looks pretty cute. She is a short, somewhat androgenous character, not the typical supermodel type. No major problems using the various accessories, though the hotpants didn't fit properly in one of the poses provided with the model. The writeup didn't promise body morphs, so I wasn't surprised that they weren't there. As purchased, she has one body shape, take it or leave it. I didn't load the motorcycle, but I expect it looks great. Love the goggles! Points of concern-- Her head is noticeably larger than Jessi's, so it may be necessary to scale her down in scenes with other models. She apparently has a different structure, so that poses for other models don't work right with her. I need to investigate this more to figure out what the differences are. It looked like she was getting twisted up some by the poses, which is a serious concern in my book! Her shoulder blades have an annoying habit over overlapping her upper arms, even in the pose that came with the model. She comes with three hairpieces. From the one I loaded and the others I've seen, I think these are pretty much unusable. Quite ugly, in fact. I do like the short haircut that's incorporated into her skin texture, which gives her a rather modern look. This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95.

Good points-- the face looks pretty cute On that we agree. >>Her head is noticeably larger than Jessi's, so it may be necessary to scale her down in scenes with other models. Actually, her proportions are very realistic. We have grown accustomed to "fantasy proportions" of other models, which is why she appears out of proportion. >>She apparently has a different structure, so that poses for other models don't work right with her. The joints are different. Poses are not always compatible with other figures, especially if they have different geometry. You may be able to interchange poses that are shared between the Unimesh figures (V3, M3, Stephanie Petite, etc), but figures that are totally original will require pose tweaking regardless of who they are. >>She comes with three hairpieces. From the one I loaded and the others I've seen, I think these are pretty much unusable. Quite ugly, in fact. "Ugly" doesn't mean "unusable." They work, and you can always make morphs and textures that will make them more to your liking. >>This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95. No comment on this other than that I disagree.

Are you sure that it is free? As I have understood (but english isnt my mothertounge)all that already have Poser6 only can buy this more cheap till the end of August.Only new buyers get it for free. Am I wrong? Sivana

He was saying that Miki is "not good enough" to pay $29.95, but she "is good enough" to get for free. I disagree with that.

Miki comes with a lot for $29.95 ... the base figure, some clothing, some hair, and that way cool motorcycle. If someone thinks that $29.95 is too much to pay for all of that content, then it is really sad to see what this community has come to expect from those of us who make content, and how much is expected for so little. It's no wonder we have lost so many wonderful artists and content creators.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 12:30

Thank you, I understand now! Sivana

This will definitely make me a customer of Wardrobe Wizard by the end of the month. Miki is really freezing and she desperately needs something to wear ;-)) Thanks, Phil @joezabel: I think this package is worth it's prize. She's as good as V3 and you get a lot of additional things for her. Just waiting for the first 3rd party character packages for her... ...and we definitely need fit morphs for all popular hairs, like Grace Lion, hmann's and koz's hair...

"This is a great model to get for free. Not sure that it was worth the $29.95." I have no way of responding to this that wouldn't likely start a huge flame. All I know is reading it made me angry.

I do not have her (yet), but if the comment makes Anton the great angry, I think it must be good value for the money. I also agree that we have been led to an idealistic and totally unrealistic body proportions where women in Poser are concerned (with some notable exceptions), so it is quite refreshing to see a model which actually looks like someone you would actually meet in real life, and not just in a supermodel circuit. Of course it would be cool to have a world full of Voluptuous Vickies, Glamorous Jessies and the likes, but that is daydreaming. I for one do lots of architectural renders, and in that context I need figures that the client can relate to and identify with. So cheers for Miki!

Attached Link: only $29.95

My mother will be having a very delicate surgery in three days. She is in very frail health and we are praying that she will pull through it (she's 77). That puts comments like those made here in a different perspective. So please bear with me as I speak out a bit. For those who feel that something isn't worth the price, all I want to say is "Can you make it yourself for that price?" Let's say you're an artist that makes $15.00 an hour at your day job. If you think you can create a human figure, three hair pieces, some clothing, a pair of boots, and a poseable motorcycle in two hours, then go for it. Chances are, you wouldn't even be able to complete one of those hair models in that amount of time. If you were aware of the amount of work involved, or even if you tried to save yourself some money and make them yourself, you would quickly realize the VALUE that we get in each and every item* that is available for the Poser community, regardless of its cost. All of the constant bickering that people do in these communities is so trivial and meaningless. There are things in life that are much more important to be concerned about. The Poserverse is a very small part of life. We ALL need to lighten up a bit, and help each other out, instead of beating each other down.

I think Anton's comment refers more to putting so much work into a mesh and then having someone complain about the price. Again not to flame, but look at what you get: a base figure, clothing, hair, textures, and a motorcycle. There are a lot more "mainstream" figures that sell for more without including any kind of hair, props, or textures. The community in general has been slow to embrace 3rd party figures. Even when figures are free they don't receive much support (ie Project Human, Furette, Maya Doll, etc) so there seems to be other factors involved other than the price...

Let's say you want a kid figure. You go to Daz and buy one. How much will it cost you ? Let's say you want a new white male character. You go to RDNA and buy one. How much will it cost you ? Well, in both cases, the answer for me would be "too much" because i do not have any use for these figures. But i wanted a realistic asian woman. I bought Miki. For $29.95, which for me is a decent and fair price. A bargain, even, considering that the "full price" is at $59 something. And that i would even have bought it for that price ! I already made an image with it, and i am REALLY satisfied of what i got for that price, despite the "face room" problem.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 16:32

Attached Link: Barbie figures $29.95

Hehehe, Anton, but those aren't poseable. 8-D

I think the biggest problem with 3rd party figures is the lack of support for clothing etc. after they're released which is probably why most people stick with good old V3, obviously with Wardrobe wizard that will be alleviated to some extent, but it's still an issue. Apart from the motorbike, this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs! [ducks behind wall to escape the flak]. thefixer, poser coord.

thefixer wrote : "Apart from the motorbike, this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs!" Ok then go ahead, show us a V3 morphed into Miki-like... :)

I think the biggest problem with 3rd party figures is the lack of support for clothing etc. after they're released It works both ways, though. If you work very hard on a figure, only to have people complain about how it looks or how much it costs, what incentive does that give for the creator to support the figure? That's why I said we have to help each other out instead of knocking each other down. It has grown so old, and it doesn't do much to benefit this community except discourage people from doing more for it.

It wasn't my intention to discourage anyone, just stating how it is. I for one would love to have more than V3 in my collection but then I'd be limited for clothing and hence what type of scene I could do. Hopefully with wardrobe wizard and others of that ilk there will be more reason to have other figures but until that happens I'll be sticking to V3 because I can't afford WW right now or afford to buy a whole new set of clothing for various figures. thefixer, poser coord.

So, in conclusion, let us make a success story out of Miki, right? Spenders, spend Content providers, provide And everybody, help everybody that can be helped.

People latch on the these cliche phrases V3 is three years old. SHe was derived on V2 which was derived from V1. Aside form INJ/Rem and JCM, the design and general sillouette has been the same for over 5 years. Of course she has more stuff. hehe. If children didn't grow, they would have a huge waredrobe by 5 too. :) 3rd party support isn't my point regardless. I suppose my point is people have lost the excitement and sense of moral support for figure creation that used to exist.

figure creators have made a better world out of Poser. Can you imagine Poser6 with just stock posette and dork? shivers convulsively

Posette wasn't that bad really. In her day she was quite cutting edge with transpped lashes and everything. hehe. People where so blown away by her. Of course that was post Poser2 but you didn't get all this: "I'll pass", "Yeah whatever", "not worth it in my book" stuff. The "Personal Figure Review" started pretty heavy when the Version 2's of the same figure started. Before that there wasn't the same need or urge to share views on comparisons.

Quite right, Anton. However, what I meant was that, part of what makes Poser great has been the content development that it has spawned. Not just the program itself has evolved, but the props, the figures, the clothes, etc. And SOMEBODY did all that work. Some are famous, some are not. But all have helped in making Poserworld the wonderful place it is. Hats off to Miki. And Apollo. Michael, Victoria, HIM, HER, PHF, PHM, etc etc etc. You bring spice and variety. And choice. If somebody does not like a figure, no need to complain. Just don't use it.

If somebody does not like a figure, no need to complain. Just don't use it. Exactly. 8-)

I certainly think its appropriate to be supportive and complimentary to figure creators even if their work isn't for you...

i think one of the problems is the fact most of us already have invested much of our cash into the previous figures, so it is almost overwhelming to get another figure , then have to start all over buying the stuff again. Of course , WW, helps, but not everyone has it or can afford it. There is a tremendous amount of complaining that there wasn't years ago, but I think it relates somewhat to my above sentence. But what can be done to stop the whining and complaining. Perhaps more education by the merchants and creators to the Poser community would help everyone appreciate all the work that goes into producing a figure, clothing, and so forth. I learned early on in my quest to learn 3D modeling that it wasn't all that easy. I've been using Poser since V1, when was that, 1994 or earlier?, and have seen things evolve, people come and go, and the community grow to a massive size. With that growth, plus all the changes of ownership of the software, and so forth, things have changed. The original "community" feeling has changed, with more nd more new people with different views and experiences. They were not around to see Dork 1, and maybe they don't really have the same level of appreciation for where this Poser community has come from....or the amount of work, as Deecey stated above, that goes into all of this. They come here to Rendo or other sites and see thousands of products...and they spend their money...perhaps they do not know what has been and all that is involved. I think the merchants and the older members of the community have to step back and teach others what the real deal is. Another part of it is the amount of quality free items that compete with the pay stuff. Much of the free items are as high a quality as pay for items. Maybe the stores have to be a bit more discriminating in what they sell. But whatever are the issues, it would be in our interest to support the creators or we may find ourselves without further developement and releases. And that would be a terrible thing

Hehehehehe, I so wish I could find my Poser 1 and 2 disks! LOL

Oww my eyes my eyes!!!! lol Marque

I think another reason for the "I'll pass", "Yeah whatever", "not worth it in my book" stuff that Anton mentions could be due to the number of new figures being released. Back a while, a new figure release was more of a earth shaking event, so everyone "needed" it as it would be the only new figure for the next 8 months, but nowadays there seems to be a new figure coming out every few weeks. That could also be a reason for people saying that they don't need it, or its not cheap enough for them to get it (as they don't really need it and would be just getting it for collecting reasons) these days.

Well I think I know where they're coming from. It's not that her price is too high, but they had this 'Celebrating 10 years of Poser!!!' tag on her. Don't you think something that is celebrating 10 years of Poser would have morphs, and a decent texture map?

I too expected something more. $29.95 isn't too much to ask, but they should have not included that tag line that inflated people's hopes of a 'new killer figure' or something containing advanced features.

this figure offers nothing you can't do with V3 and her morphs!

You are dead wrong on that. V3 cannot be a realistic Asian woman. They try, with the International Beauties kit, but not very successfully. Some nice ethnic head morphs, but try to use the expression morphs with them, and the results are poor. Teeth poking through the face, weird wrinkles around the eyes, bumps in the cheek.

Look at Miki's expressions (as demonstrated by LaurieA). You can't give V3 lifelike expressions like that - not with her Asian morphs on, anyway.

I've been waiting for figures like Miki and Koji for a long time. Realistic ethnic figures, who can show expression without breaking their faces.

You do have a point about the support. WW helps a lot, but isn't the same as having out-of-the-box support. But I think Miki does have something unique to offer, so will get decent support. Still, I wish they'd offered us the same package they sold in Japan. It was $40, not $30, but included lots more clothing and hair. I'd rather have the extra clothes than the motorcycle.

But I suppose we'll see the clothing sold separately at CP, any day now...

I'm sure that $29.95 is a nice price for those who like her, but I think she's really homely. I went through the whole long thread with a bunch of renders of her and I personally thought she was a product that I wouldn't want to own for free, let alone pay for, but that that's just MY opinion. I know alot of people really like her and that's great. I just don't.

I think it's terribly rude of those who are jumping on joezabel for expressing the opinion that it might not be worth $29.95. SHAME ON YOU. Joezable was expressing an opinion and just because you don't share it does not mean you have to jump all over someone. For shame. Tsk tsk.

YES, creating these items IS hard work. YES, the content creators probably ARE underpaid for the hard work that they put in developing these products. But I think joezabel did a good job of expressing an opinion in a polite and professional manner and did not deserve to be attacked.

Wow, lots of responses! I certainly didn't mean to make anybody angry, I was just expressing my honest opinion. I think my remark was interpretted too negatively, as well. Just because I would be reluctant to spend $29.95 for something doesn't mean I think it stinks! The best favor we can do for content providers is give them our honest opinions. What good does it do to praise something to the heavens if nobody's going to buy it? That's just setting the creator up for disappointment! I think Miki will do quite well because of clever marketing, and because she fills a signifigant nitch in the market that the white anglo-saxon supermodel figures have left open. But I think in the long run, for the market as a whole, the best strategy for content providers is to sell works that have a high and consistent quality. No embarassing fright-wigs. No poses that show off flaws in the figure construction. Quality will turn your loyalists from a tiny mob into a teaming throng.

Here's the price comparison: V3 with her morphs is only 1/3 of Miki's full price. Miki is not worth $29.95 and certainly isn't worth $60 because of that, plain and simple. Is Miki a good figure, yes, but it lacks the flexibility that V3 does for a lot more money. I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them. I can use V3 with any kind of person in it, period, V3 is that flexible. Miki also, for a lot more money, only comes with facial expressions. With V3's morphs, I can make almost any body type imaginable and a variety of unique looking faces. Here's what really gets my goat about Miki. When I bought the first, buggy as hell, release of P6, I got that lousy Winter Queen set with some of the worst textures and most undetailed meshes I've ever seen. Now, not only does someone get a version of P6 which isn't buggy, but now gets a MUCH better set for free. That really annoys me, but at this point I'm used to being mistreated by Curious Labs. It should be free for people who bought P6 up to a certain time, not just half price.

V3 with her morphs is only 1/3 of Miki's full price. Miki is not worth $29.95 Hmmm ... V3 is free. Her morphs are 29.95. Add to that 3 hair models (let's round them off at $15.00 apiece). That's $45.00 more. Then you have the clothing set ... let's say that's another $15.00. Then you have the motorcycle, there is one sold at DAZ for $24.95. Now we are up to nearly $115.00. Miki is overpriced???? Sorry, but when you make comparisons, you have to compare apples to apples.

You forgot the textures, Deecey. :)

Oh yeah, those too! ROFL OK, that'll be another $15 to $20-ish. ;-)

To add to the above ... I am NOT trying to make it look like I think the DAZ products are overpriced; only that Miki is NOT overpriced in comparison.

I like the DAZ figures as much as everyone else and use them often. They are great figures ... but I have yet to see ethnic characters from the DAZ figures that don't look like they are Amer-Asian, or African American, or some other ethnic/American blend. You CAN'T get the Millenium look out of them totally.

I truly hope that Miki is the start of a trend. Yes, it will be a niche market ... but I was immediately attracted to her realism. She's not "ugly" ... she is "natural." Very much so.

There is a place for the V3s and the Stephanie Petites, and the Apollo Maximis (LOL - is that the correct plural?), and the Natalias, and the DinaV's. What work for some don't work for others, and vice versa.

But there is ALSO a place, and a very BIG void, for realistic ethnic figures. Bravo for eFrontier for making Miki available to the US Market. I hope we see more ethnic figures.

Message edited on: 08/23/2005 20:25

"I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them."

Obviously, people are polarized on the Miki issue. I agree that there is a very big need for genuine ethnic Poser figures other than Caucasian. I want them - I'll buy them when I see them. Hell, I even bought Miki, which I don't particularly find to be a great figure or a great value. But it fills a hole in my runtime until something better comes along. Bottom line: my motivation in writing this is to say something to the "content providers": lighten up. We pathetic, unenlightened consumers are entitled to our opinions as to what kind of value specific Poser packages provide. Poser is my hobby, and I spend WAY too much on it, much of this spending on a whim. But I still appreciate reading people's opinions on the value which packages provide to them. Just because you spent 4,000 hours perfecting your latest texture set or pose set or figure doesn't mean that it's worth $29.95 or $49.95 or $99.95 (?!?) to me or anyone else. Hell, you can spend the next 736 years building a full scale replica of the Washington Monument out of ziti and Elmer's glue and it won't be worth $29.95. Value to the (Poser) consumer is measured by quantity and quality and novelty and utility. Provide all four and we will beat a path to your door - some of you do (in my view) and you get my repeat business. Check your orders - you know who you are.

If you're a DAZ member, which is almost a mandate if you use poser considering how much money you'll save from just their $1.99 products alone, V3 comes out to a lot less than that. DAZ also has so many sales, that it's incedibly easy to pick up V3's basics for less than $30 and certainly less than $60. Not only can I also download enough free clothing to choke a horse for V3, but free textures that are a lot better than Miki's. So again, she's not worth the price tag. But I'm more upset about the fact that new P6 owners get it for free, when I had to beta test P6 when it first came out because they shipped it flawed.

Well I bought Miki yesterday but it's only because I was really too busy since she came out or I would have bought her as soon as she came out, the same way I bought Terai Yuki the day she came out and the same way I'll buy Kogi? when he comes out. I don't care if people like or don't like these models. I don't care if they think they are too expensive or not expensive enough, if they can be used in such and such scenes, etc. All I care about is that I am able to afford them and I like having them so I buy them. And when I don't like the new models, even if they are free, I don't download them. It is as easy as that finally. There's no use arguing about the value of something because its value depends mostly on the need or desire you have for it and there are as many different level of need or wants as there are people on earth. ;o) France

We are all entitled to our own opinion. Personally I think she's worth the money. Yes the hair is awful! I will not use it. The clothes aren't exactly everyday wear either, no problem I'll make some of my own. But she is a uniquely different model from the V3 clones. She has a bit of a shape to her. She is not amazon tall and she doesn't look like a Barbie Doll when you load her. I really like this model and Terai Yuki High Resolution as well! I say keep them coming, variety is needed.

Yes and did you see Koji???

Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.co.jp/poser/miki-fig.html

I want it too! We were given some flashy "good ole boy" type pack here. I mean not to diss the motorcycle, but, lets get real...........how many renders will have that in it and would you really go to the grocery store in that outfit???? I wouldn't! Koji will be mine too!

Exactly! It's funny, some of the Japanese customers are apparently annoyed because they want the motorcycle and the sexy clothes. But I'd gladly trade the motorcycle for some normal outfits!

It just seems a bit odd that they included a motorcyle and that sexy leather stuff. Seems more suitable for Yuki or Fei-Fei - glamor babes. Miki is such a realistic, normal looking figure. She needs normal clothes, like jeans and t-shirts.

I agree, but I did look on the site and see the Japanese pack......................it looks like Poser 3 or 4 type stuff to me. Just an opinion but, there are alot of free hair figures out there!