Not to inflame a flame war, but... Paying $29.95 for a fully-posable human figure AND clothing AND a fully motocycle figure is beyond dirt cheap cheap!!! How can anyone complain about a price like that when motorcycle models range from $10 to $26 by themselves... and they don't include a human figure nor clothing. (Check the marketplace here for pricing.) Oh, wait, because V3 is free, every human figure should be free. Right, got it. --John

I've made a couple of "I'll pass" comments about Miki, not because I undervalue the amount of work that went into her, but because whoever rigged her hobbled this excellent quality by dividing the mesh old-school (Poser 4) style. I've tried getting decent bends from Jessi, but that ain't happening without redividing the mesh, and I don't personally use Jessi enough to put that much effort into such an undertaking. Miki, on the other hand, I could see myself using regularly, but with a Jessi-like polygon count, that mesh redivision would be even more daunting. Please, eFrontier (as well as any other current/potential providers of new, high-quality content), encourage your talented figure modelers to divide the mesh "millenium"-style. I use "millenium" with quotes, since this style of mesh division was invented by Steven Rindone, AKA Torino, prior to DAZ's use of it. I just don't understand why such a useful innovation would be completely dismissed when creating such otherwise excellent new characters.

I don't think every Poser figure should be free. But we're talking about Curious Labs/eFrontier, the people at the core of this sub-set of artists. They've sold thousands of copies of Poser. They sold me a copy of P6 that was fatally flawed and literally caused me hours of work. But they're giving it away to people who get a version of P6 that works and charging more than what the market should bear for their new figure. Meanwhile, I got the Winterqueen and a broken version of P6. It's not fair and makes me feel mistreated as a customer. Now let's compare Miki to something like Appollo Maximus. AM is made by an independent artist who's hardly a corporate entity. He's charging $100 for his figure, and it comes with even less than Miki. Whether or not it's worth it for me to buy that figure belays the fact that I don't think he's charging an unfair price given who he is and what the economics of the situation are. Curious Labs/eFrontier have the ability to give Miki away for free or charge a reasonable competitive price for it, yet they won't because they've shown time and again that they hate their customers. I feel very screwed by them because I'm not getting Miki for free when someone who's buying P6 now will.

Main question for me as a (happy) Miki owner would be the support. For now, i've seen a free dress and her texture, an announcement about WW compatibility, and a clothing set for poserworld's subscribers. I can't wait to see some textures and clothes in the various marketplaces ! (hint...)

Oh and i forgot an important element : face morphs and BODY morphs too :)

What would Everyone like to see created for Miki,Yuki,& Koji and price would you like to see each item sell for ?

Well, I own MIKI and i like this figure. Even if you look at the mesh, the private part of the hip is fully designed and it should be easy to create some morphs for this. If you look at the hip of V3 in the mesh it's still like Barbie. You have to play around with clumpy dots. Also the price is fair and I think we will get clothes and more early on Japanese sites. Face morphs are available at poserclub.jp and I am pretty sure we will get some more bodymorphs soon. It is, as already stated above, an additional figure to increase the variety of models. Does everybody want to drive a Hummer?

Message edited on: 08/24/2005 04:18

Why do so many people repeat the idiotic chorus of "V3 is free, so all other figures are expensive"? Get a grip! V3 is what is known in marketing terms as a loss-leader. That means it is sold (or given away) at less than its market value in order to attract customers to buy related products at full value. V3 wasn't always free, remember? DAZ has already made a lot of money selling a huge number of copies of her, many more copies than they ever expected to sell, I'm sure. And they will continue to make money from all the V3 add-ons, and giving her base-figure away now will only improve that add-on market for years to come. V3 should not be used as a yardstick for assessing the value of figure packs.

But this is Poser we're talking about, and V3 is the core figure for Poser, so it is the yardstick and will probably be the yardstick for a while. That's the simple reality of the situation.

If Curious Labs wants to compete with DAZ for content, they need to measure up the yardstick that Daz has created. Having P6 come with what most think is a less useful figure like Jessi, and then doing something like overcharging for Miki, are not going to help them compete.

Customers are always going to go with what's cheapest and with what fufills their needs the best, and that's not Jessi or Miki. Oh and since I actually have bought Miki, I'd love to have a link to this dress freebie that someone mentioned. I know Poserworld has jeans and a shirt, but I hadn't seen anything else...

Message edited on: 08/24/2005 05:51

I like her. To me she is worth what I paid but I can see how others might think otherwise. It would be a boring world if we all thought the same way. I do think that CL/EF need to learn how to create JP's. They have not done a proper job on thier figures as of P5. Complete S*** if you ask me. Bend the forarm and your not sure if your bending it the right way, they both look like crap and lets not get into the hip and leg JP's. I don't know how anyone can say Miki is ugly. That would be like saying Judy is the most beautiful face ever created. Plain, normal, even average, but not ugly. Take a look at my feeble attempt at a texture. I just need to fix a couple of things and it's finished, the head that is. I don't know what caused the black marks in the render. I think it is the hair, didn't do it with a different hair.

Wow, that texture looks pretty good. Are you going to be releasing it?

even though I rarely use it, once the face room compatibility is fully worked out for Miki, that will be an added bonus. None of the DAZ folks work in there.

Supposedly, the reason Miki and Jessi are not jointed "Millennium-style" is that the next version of Poser will have a new, advanced rigging system that makes the buttocks group unnecessary.

Here is the same texture but with the face morph I'm working on. Not sure if it's the nose morph or the texture that need some work or both. It still give an idea of what it looks like. You stil think she looks ugly?

Attached Link: http://www.tigerdesigns-online.com

Oh and since I actually have bought Miki, I'd love to have a link to this dress freebie that someone mentioned. I know Poserworld has jeans and a shirt, but I hadn't seen anything else...

Look on my site, LOL

Thanks... it looks great...

Your welcome!

I don't need her at the moment although she looks quite nice, but I was wondering if I upscaled her bike if I would be able to pose V3 on it? I might consider getting her just for the bike. Love esther

So far all the eFrontier meshes have very nice head geometry.

---

But unfortunately they even waste more polygons than the unimesh folks, and bend even worse.

So while $29 isnt too bad for a complete character with some add-ons, I rather play with my FREE EROKO/NEA hybrid character instead:

^-^

stahlratte

Tami, you do a great job! Thanks a lot! ;o)

but the bike - what about the bike! Does not your hybrid have to get around in poser land somehow? Love esther

Here's a picture of an unfinished WIP for Miki........its a bit strange I know, but I like it

It looks good. It reminds me of a dress my sister used to wear around 1968-69... My parents didn't like it for some reason. lolll

LOL!

I see changes and improvements to her daily. I have her, and really couldn't afford her since I already spent my pennies this month, but I see potential in her. I also bought V3, but if you remember we who bought her got a refund for her when they released her for free. Bottom line is if you want her get her....but if you don't like her then walk on. No one is forcing anyone to use this product. I personally am tired of all the models that look like they're on their way to a beauty pageant. She has a beauty of her own, and also looks like she could be your neighbor on her way to work. I do agree that it's a slap in the face that new folks who buy P6 get her free but that happens all the time now. Only way to stop that action is to boycot the next version instead of beta testing it...lol Marque

"but the bike - what about the bike! Does not your hybrid have to get around in poser land somehow?"

Oh, shes quite happy cruisin around in her FREE `57 BelAir:

As for the leather dress, I remember seeing very similar free ones at Yamatos costume festival.
Free Aviator googles can be had at RDNA:

Im pretty sure there is also a free Bike somewhere out in Poserland.
(BTW, theres a VERY NICE free Scooter at Posetteforever.)

As I said, $29 is not too expensive, but keep in mind that you pay for a mesh that weights more than twice than ApolloMaximus and still bends worse than the Unimeshes.
So Ill rather stick with my free stuff for now.
^-^

stahlratte

Interesting comments. Ok, everyone step back from poser a second. Back? Good. Have you ever walked into a store, and seen a movie you had NO interest in at all, and thought it was rubbish? But it's only $10! It's a HUGE value! Think of the huge number of artists, and craftsmen who worked on it! Dissing that movie is a disservice! Everyone should buy it, and encourage everyone else to buy it as well! Even if it's a Catwoman, Ishtar, the Island, Sky Captain, or House of 1,000 corpses! Now that sounds really silly, doesn't it? People have different tastes, and what one person dispises, another loves, but there's NO reason at ALL to get angry because someone doesn't LOVE a new poser character. All those afforemention movies cost a LOT of cash to make, a LOT of man hours, and ALL have lost major amount of money, NOT because a lot of work was put into them, but because many people just decided they didn't like them for one reason or another. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. If the poser market gets big enough, characters like Miki will find their own audience, and it won't matter if many of dislike her or not. if it's NOT big enough yet, the artist will realize it, and make something more palatable to the majority of users. Same goes for Apollo. I've no desire to own him, because I don't use many male characters in my renders, and while I consider Anton a good freind and excellent content creator, I just don't care for Apollo's "look" for some reason. But that should be OK as well. Just like some people hate toon characters, and most of my products support them, and they probably hate my stuff.. and ya know what? That's OK too. I don't believe the entire community needs to love every single figure being released, and I value the right and ability for everyone to say "I hate this figure, and it's not worth one red cent." Ishtar is not worth one red cent to me. Rap music and polka music is not worth one red cent to me. I love old cheesy sci-fi/horror,and love soundtracks, classic music and disco, and some people they they are all not worth one red cent. And that's OK too. My personal take? Too many new human characters coming out way too fast. Too many for a lot of support for all of them, and too many similar characters. (What, 4 or 5 new Japanese female characters this last year alone?) But that's OK too. There may be a HUGE growing Japanese poser market we are unaware of, and that's a good thing. Plus we see many VERY creative japanese freebie outfits, and with wardrobe wizard support, some of them can be converted to characters we prefer. So at the end of the day, it's all good, even if the majority don't care for something. I'll take Furette over her any day.. ;)

I like the red dress. Very cute. Reminds of the styles from the mid-80s. When clothing made of Lycra/cotton blends was all the rage.

Thanks! But unfortunately it conforms like crap, don't think we'll be seeing this one............

OMG! I don't believe what I'm hearing! Expensive? I guess I must just be a hard-core Poserphile or something. But I think this figure is just plain, downright, without-a-doubt dirt cheap. Her joints may not be all they can be (but aside from maybe AP, what figure's are? Vicky's could definitely use some work). As for Miki's face, I have never, EVER used a figure who is so realistically expressive, even after my some 7 or 8 years with Poser. She is cuter than a freakin' button, and even if she's not versitile in the types of characters you can create with her, Vicky's morphs for instance just don't do the job. You CAN'T get a truly good Asian or African woman from them. Why do ya think the galleries are saturated with beautiful big-boobed babes in high heels and mesh stockings? And almost nearly Caucasion women at that. Because you CAN'T have one model that is all things to all people, especially people who like/want versatility. There has to be models that fill the niche. Not everyone will want or need them. But for those who do, Miki is an excellent figure.

Laurie

onimusha wrote- "AM is made by an independent artist who's hardly a corporate entity. He's charging $100 for his figure, and it comes with even less than Miki." I don't mean to offend or criticize you but you way mistaken.

Regarding this term "3rd party figures": If e-frontier is 3rd party figures who is the first party? Koshini has more support than over half the mil line. I just don't like these cliches about 3rd party figures. Is the mil girls 3rd party? Is the baby 3rd party? What about the Girl? SHe is a daz ittem. She 3rd party? Guys V3 had very little when she came out. FOr a time the only major items where the ones I made for her. SHe is threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee years old. :)

And speaking of Vicki content. How much of it is useless or unsold? How much of the clothing has absolutely NO morphs at all. How much of it doesn't bend beyond a mild standing pose.

It is all perception. These cliche generalized perceptions get old.

SHow me exactly how many V3 clothing items exist that contain all her body morphs. I am curious. That I didn't make.

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 01:25

Too much coffee: One more rant hehe The future and sucess of figures these days is in the hands of the merchants They make for the cliche figures because they want quick and somewhat predictable sales. The dynamic to overcome is the merchnats. Personally I don't think merchants are willing it invest the time to get another figure off the ground. And this make for a very interesting dynamic in that even daz may not be able to make a new female successful. Then everyone is screwed because we will be left with roughly 4 figures in all of Poserdom to use. So when people gripe, throw out these slam judgements for all to read, the emrchnats read that and say "I'll pass". So everyone looses. IMO, if people want more "3rd party figure" support, stop picking and shreading every new figure. Consumers think it is helping developers by them insisting on what they want, but it just spooks customers and merchnats. It is having the opposite effect and killing potential figure support by merchants. IMHO. Especially when the info isn't even accurate or the person doesn't even own the figure.

(too busy to read all this now - just bookmarking for later)

I bet if DAZ came out with Victoria 4 tomorrow, the merchants would all jump on board. At this point, "first party" is Victoria and Michael. DAZ's other figures have never gotten a lot of support, and still don't. (Unfortunately, since I like SP and David a lot better than M3 and V3.)

randym77 wrote:
"DAZ's other figures have never gotten a lot of support, and still don't. (Unfortunately, since I like SP and David a lot better than M3 and V3.)"

Me too ;oP. They may not have the amount of morphs as M3 and V3, but they look better, I agree.

Actually I like Aiko prolly better than any of 'em. But that's cause she's different. I like her because she's NOT so photorealistic, which has it's uses. But Miki is very realistic, especially in the face, and tho she may be just Asian, THAT has it's uses.

Laurie

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 06:02

I disagree that mercants don't get behind a figure they like.. I do it all the time, regardless of what the rest of poserdom does. And Aiko was off to a good start, and then word of moth has kept spreading, and she's become one of the most popular female figures. I'm kind of liking Neftis's new marketing idea, or doing a relacement head with compatible uv mapping.. nice idea.

At this point, "first party" is Victoria and Michael. "First Party" would actually be the figures that come with the program. Anything beyond that is third party, including the extra figures being released by eFrontier. Michael and Victoria are what I would consider the most popular third party figures.

I bought Miki on the strength of what I've seen people do with her here in these threads. However, I haven't unpacked her yet because I'm waiting for the Face Room fix. Any word on that? Mick

I can only use Miki in renders that require an asian person in them. Uhh, as opposed to renders that "require" white women with big boobs and tumescent lips? I see roughly a dozen young Asian women a day, and we don't even have a Chinatown. Goll. M

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2383904

Just a slight change in the xml file is all that is needed.

ARGH!! It's not coming through correctly. See this thread, but use the corrected part 3 in post #6

Message edited on: 08/25/2005 10:28

Attached Link: Stephanie 3 :$39.95

Just Trying to "Inject" Some humor into the conversation !

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net/WW_update.htm

The Wardrobe Wizard support files for Miki are now available on the update page.

I know "first party" is technically the figures that ship with Poser. That's why I put it in quotation marks. :)

But Poser is not the only game in town now. There are a lot of people who came through D|S. If you don't have Poser, you can't use Jessi, but everyone can use V3 and M3. Especially since they are now free.

I bought her because of the fantastic renders I saw in this thread and just a bit of a guilty conscience from all the cool freebies that Content Paradise has given me. This is only the second item I have "bought". The last one cost me a whole $2.00. Time to support CP with some cash.

ok, i'm very middle of the road here. people should be able to say negative things about any product out there. i think one big problem with the negative feedback people are giving is that it's not very detailed, or occasionally inaccurate. for instance, in platinum club, i paid about $35 for v3 and all her morphs when she was originally released and fully on sale. no textures, no hair, no clothes, no props. even accounting for v3 being free (and mind you, she's free after just about everyone in the poser community has her, not on her release, and i got a voucher, not a refund, that actually ended up with me spending more money for various reasons that make the daz vouchers a successful marketing technique), the extra money might buy one hair piece, one prop, one clothes set or one texture, but not all four and not multiple of any of them. and miki does have morphs- that's what face room support is. you could consider miki herself a freebie, and the price the cost for the motorcycle, clothes, hair and texture. even at full price. i don't expect to personally agree with joezabel's assessment, but even given that, i wish he had been more specific. why was the hair unusable? what about the hair is so ugly? as is, it's not very helpful for either other people thinking about getting her nor for her creator nor any future creators (make the hair less "ugly" next time? make a "not ugly hair" freebie?). that said, i'd rather have gut reactions than "everything's perfect, all the time" with no actually honest reviews. if no one had ever complained about the mil big cat, would the seams have been fixed? would daz have updated the mil horse if no one had said anything? that said, everyone who complained about the horse at least was incredibly specific about problems and posted photographs illustrating the correct proportion/conformation, or methods to make it right. i think we all need to put people's reactions in perspective. so, if you're a content creator, expect negative feedback from some people and expect a lot of the people giving the feedback to be neither very concerned with yor feelings nor very coherent about why they don't like it. i'm not saying that's good or fair, but that's how people are and getting frustrated at it will just raise your blood pressure. conversely, if you're posting complaints, don't expect the people receiving them to be any less than human. they probably put a good deal of work into something you're disparaging; in the best situation they're still going to be kind of offended. if you're not specific and don't provide details about what you do and don't like, they won't even have the chance to change. and if you speak in absolutes rather than specifics (e.g., she's not worth it to me or in my opinion, but just, she's not worth it), not only are you going to have people disagreeing, they're going to be angry, offended, and unreceptive. so don't be surprised if you're comments are "this figure is ugly and should be given away free," that people is take offense. again, being aggravated at completely predictable behavior will just make your life more difficult. i'm not saying i'm personally perfect in this area- i know i'm not. and i'm not saying people shouldn't express displeasure at behavior they find offensive. just voicing my perspective on the brouhaha. oh, and as i've stated in a thread at daz, i don't see why miki can't be morphed into other ethnicities any less easily than v3 (in reference to she can only be japanese characters). v3 is not generalized or standard for human. she's a bizarrely tall, small-headed middle american caucasian who's own creator's ethnic morphs, to my eyes, tend to look inhuman from any angle but the front and mostly create visible mesh distortion around the eyes at full strength (asian ones). if anything, miki's features look more like most people on this planet than v3 default does. she already looks a lot like a family friend who's part black, part puerto rican, and part unknown. frankly, i've always thought figure bases should be asian because more ethnicities have features close to asian than any other i can think of. i think it's interesting, though not surprising, that people seem to think of middle american "white" (in my eyes, v3 default is definitely not european or slavic or even standard east coast) is somehow neutral and therefore more able to acheive variety. i haven't seen anything in real life to make me think this is at all true. supercgpro - the only thing i really want for miki is morphs that are divided by side (left and right). morphs for face and body, morphs for both shape and movement. how much i'd pay would depend on the versatility of the morphs and the size of the set. i would't pay more than i do for capsces' or garee's morph sets in the same situations (i.e. sale release price, then regular). beryld - your miki character's eyes and brows remind me strongly of Julianna Margulies from ER. garee - all the other japanese figures i know of are fairly stylized, like eroko and ayame. they compare better to sara, alexa and girl than v3, imo. i know zock has another earlier one, but i can't think of other mid-ground figures off the top of my head - do you know more? but i know of absolutely no other attempts at realistic japanese figures, male or female. if you do, i'd be interested in links. TamiL - does it make a good dynamic dress? i think it looks nice and that might be a way to avoid difficulties with conforming. philc - thanks so much! yay! i think that wardrobe wizard goes a long way towards bridging both the real and perceptual content gap. hmmmmm. do you think a "how to make wardrobe wizard optimized clothes" tutorial or something like it would be helpful? i'm pretty sure buyers would find that to be a good selling point.

i'd like to add that i do like v3 and appreciate her and that i do think her morphs add versatility. i just don't think her mesh predisposes her to be more versatile or diverse. again, just my opinion.

I've got a problem with her motorcycle. The kickstand doesn't work! I do like the model. I'll have to make her some clothes, and probably some body morphs, but I like her realism. And I definitely like her non-V3 look. $29,95 is not overpriced. Actually, every Poser model is dirt cheap (just take a look at Turbosquid. I've been looking there for ships and a 17th century frigate there costs around $1000, while the Warraok Kitt at double the detail costs $15. Go figure).

If you want to see some prices, check out the figures at Zygote.

Well I like her. At first I was unsure whether to get her or not, but because of the renders of her in this thread - went ahead and bought her. I have rendered her, and her face is terrific and can be made very expressive with the supplied morphs. Her body, while good, I suppose could be added to with more morphs, but when clothed, you can not see to much of it anyway, so you can get away with what she comes with. I tried the Pigtails, and that hair style looked very cute and rendered well. All in all, I think she will be an excellent addition to anyones runtime. Hopefully Merchants will support her more as people get over their initial reluctance of this new figure when they see what she can do. A good texture will make all the more difference too from the one that is supplied. Miki is cute, she is sassy, she is just one of us. Jan