Last night I downloaded the latest version of Daz Studio from daz3d and tried it out.

I have found from my initial test that this product has hung P6 to dry hands down.

The problems I am continuing to experience in P6 is unheard of in Studio. Its unbeliveable...

I recommend if you have not got it to download it for free from Daz3d asap and check it out for yourself....

Problems in P6..... I don't encounter problems in P6 at all, but do encounter problems in D/S. Besides D/S lacks a number of P6 features I tend to use, so no D/S for me, I'm sticking to Poser. I'm so used to Poser after all of these years, that I find working with D/S akward and I'm really not in the mood to redo all of scenes in D/S that use the P5 or P6 people. I'm very content with P6, but it seems that it behaves very different on different computers, but so does D/S. Perhaps it's safe to say that a pc that runs P6 well, will not run D/S well and a pc that doesn't run P6 well, works fine with D/S?

Aeikema I am a heavy user and used Poser from P3 to P6.

I have complained like many others both to Curiouslabs/E-Frontiers and placed forum message explaining the problems I have encounter in P6 which were not prevelant to a degree from the previous versions.

However, I appreiciate you have not had any problems with Poser and therfore you are inclined to change, everone I accepts uses Poser/Studio is tailored to their own need.

I also know from reading the forums both here and at Daz3d their have been issues with Studio, which are being resolved or have alreasy been resolved.

While experimenting with Studio I have managed to render a scene with more than 4 full textured figures with over 20 props including clothing (eg V3 and M3) and rendered them in Studio whereas in P6 this failed repeatedly.

I have also noticed that Studio tend to use P5 runtime as I have 2 runtimes one for P6 and the other for P5 which are identicle in every way.

I've only once had a problem in P6, and that was a fluke that I couldn't replicate (so it may have been something else in my system causing the problem). I'm sure that D|S will eventually be fantastic, and now it's good, but I miss the excellent material room available in P6. I'm glad to see people like and use D|S. Competition can't help but produce better quality products from both eFrontiers and DAZ. :-) bonni

I am currently porting all my figures over to Maya. Once I forgot everything I once knew about animation software, it was easy to get my mind around it. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter what you use - my work will still suck if I have no vision.

I want to use both. If I find time to install it, grgrgrgrgrgrgr ... :(

I'm sorry that, after spending money on P6, you're bound to use D/S... Luckily, P6 only gave to me "Out of Mem" errors sometimes, before SR1, and now it works flawlessly: it's a prog with SO MANY excellent characteristics it would be a shame for me if it would not work...

points of information please: does Daz studio have AO or IBL or any kind of Global Illumination? Can you play audio track or full quicktime movie in animation pallet and SEE the audio wave? ::::: Opera :::::

I should hope there are no problems after 3 years. Those plugins look like they are going to add up after awhile. People insist there will be no division in the community but I think this is remarkably shortsighted and narrow. Obviously, with Poser7, propack will be four versions old and I doubt much more Poser finctionality is going to be copied. So from here on out there are two paths of content, that which works in Poser(meaning Poser5,Poser6, and then Poser7) and old stuff or simplistic things that can import properly into Studio. Will be interesting to watch. Personally, I think any content person who agrees to the Eula is a fool, but that is just my opinion. Disclaimer: I post this here since we are in the Poser forum and this is a Poser6 related topic. :)

"Obviously, with Poser7, propack will be four versions old and I doubt much more Poser finctionality is going to be copied." FINALLY... someone who sees it like I do in that regard. I think many of the folks who will be drawn to D|S are those who are currently happy (or at least satisfied) with Poser 4 stuff. For those who got on board with ProPak, and more particularly with P5 and P6 functionality and features, I don't think D|S will steer us away easily. Especially with Poser 7 possibly already in the works.

"does Daz studio have AO or IBL or any kind of Global Illumination? Can you play audio track or full quicktime movie in animation pallet and SEE the audio wave?" Of course not :-) and you have no cloth dynamics NO Dope sheet or spline graph editor for serious character or object animation NO Direct support from Mimic( A DAZ owned program) NO python support to run powerful crossplatform utilities like Wardobwizard,puppetmaster etc. they recently recanted their claims the their "Dform 'tool will import poser Magnets.. it does not. NO Viable export to any other program except bryce Via standard OBj files with referenced mtl file No internal shader system at all or any type of "effects" to speak of. However May i suggest that there is a segment of still render hobbyists and digital pro illustrators whos rendering needs dont require any of these features thats fine and im glad that DAZ has offered them a way to render DAZ/Poser content At little to no cost ;-) so its all a matter of ones perspective and needs Me?? I have Poserpro4,poser5 &poser6 installed on my MAC and from my perpective they are all just Charcater animation and previsualization tools for sending my figure/content over to Carrarpro for rendering where I have true HDRI and GI and direct support for posers cloth dynamics. there will be no major "division" per se in the "community" as far as content providers go can anyone really see "Stonemason" or "Uzilite" or "Sanctumart" switching over to creating D/S content EXCUSIVELY??? Not likely. ;-/ And YA I know its Free but Add HALF of those features I just mentioned as plugins etc and see how fast the price starts to approach what we pay for a full seat of poser these days. Glad to see there is something for everyone though :-)

Well, I just tried P6 firefly for the first time on a closeup on M3's face with some shader nodes. I couldn't render with shadows on at all. (No, I don't have a fancy-smacy machine either.) I gave up on the render after an hour. Couldn't even make a tiny area scan. So I turned off displacement, and shadows, and I got a whopping 3 renders before crashing (the last one I couldn't save because I crashed). :(

render 1: 500x500 close up face, no clothes, no hair
render 2: 500x500 close up face, dynamic hair
render 3: 500x500 close up face, no clothes, no hair

Looks I'll be using PP, unless DS can render advanced features like displacement and materials without eating up system resouces.

sigh

bB

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 05:03

"there will be no major "division" per se in the "community"<<

Well maybe not today anyway. :) I see you added "major"/"per se". I remember "will be no". Funny how perceptions slides.
hehehe. I'm going to bookmark this for the "I told you so" down the road.

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 05:03

"And YA I know its Free but Add HALF of those features I just mentioned as plugins etc and see how fast the price starts to approach what we pay for a full seat of poser these days. Glad to see there is something for everyone though :-)" I stated the same at the DAZ forums and they all started to laugh. Besides, I'm a frequent P5 & P6 content user (like Don, Judy James, Jessi & Kids). For me switching to D/S would mean a major re-investment into DAZ figures. I can live without the Poser male & female figures, since I've got M2/V2, but I don't have any DAZ kids. I've already calculated that me buying all that is needed to get useable kids in D/S, I'm going to spent more on D/S then I ever did on Poser. But I wouldn't want to exchange my Poser kids for DAZ kids any way, to me the DAZ kids look like Chucky & mates, and I'm not into horror scenes at all. So no option, unless DAZ creates some more real looking kids, the collection they now do have scares me. The other side of the free coin is often overlooked, besides all of the missing features, there will be lack of content. All needs to be compensated for and before you know, D/S has cost lot's more then Poser ever did.

I heard that Poser 4 was the better program out of all poser versions.. at least it is the easiest to learn from what I'm told. I don't know anything about daz studio. I have enough problems figuring out Poser 5, that I doubt I'll try it. From what I hear some files don't work in daz studio either.

Poser4 was perhaps the best/most stable version until Poser6. Now it is just outdated as is Propack. They are just too many versions old.

There are character rigging anolomies that have since been fixed as well in regards to the setup room. People forget about proPack in countinf Poser verions. Poser6> Poser5> ProPack> "Poser4". That is four versions ago.

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 05:22

The one thing I like about D|S is that if it is sucessful, it should light a fire under eF to work on the features the community requests to stay competitve. Things like Multiple Undo (or even an Undo that always works would be nice!) I was going to dl D|S last week, but then I read something about the magnets being an add on, and just thought, "Oh great! Another not-so-free Daz freebie!" Who knows? Maybe when the product matures it will be worth it, but for right now, I would rather stick with the devil I know, P6.

Magnets.... You mean Poser magnets?

Anton, yes I was referring to the lack of poser-like magnets in D|S. That they are an add-on, which from this thread seems like that isn't even the case. shrug

"Funny how perceptions slides." The reason I beleive that is obvious This is not like 3D MAX vs Alias MAYA two arguably "comparable" programs If I may be frank about it, Poser6 is so far ahead of DAZ's cute little peice of freeware That there really is NO competion right now. Oh sure you will have newbies who Download the free V3 and D/S and think it "the greatest thing ever" due to lack of experience with anything else and of course you will have those few existing in a Myopic haze of DAZ fanboy evangelism undisturbed by reality countered by obsessed self proclaimed "enemies" of DAZ who ,for whatever personal reason, would like to See DAZ pushed into the Sea :-) but so What ?? we know such types already exist in this community and despite their best efforts they havent really divided the users now have they??? Sure there will be a "division" in this community when DAZ releases a MAJOR new female figure that CANNOT be used in poser at all and even then that will only open the door for some talented artist to finally create a viable alternative to the INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA HORSE SH*T!!! with a commmon sense figure that does NOT require installing 796 support files a is needed right now to get a fully funtional "UNIMESS" female.

Quote - Oh sure you will have newbies who Download the free V3 and D/S and think it "the greatest thing ever" due to lack of experience with anything else and of course you will have those few existing in a Myopic haze of DAZ fanboy evangelism undisturbed by reality countered by obsessed self proclaimed "enemies" of DAZ who ,for whatever personal reason, would like to See DAZ pushed into the Sea :-)

You're a writer, aren't you?

The sad thing is that neither is a happy solution. Studio is mired in the past; but Poser 6 is too buggy, too slow, and too much of a resource hog. The field is divided because P6 has the best platform, but Daz has the best figures. The new P6 figures have some attractive functionality I'd like to work with, but they still aren't as good as Daz figures.

It is another tool.. it is not a replacement. It does do somethings better, but it is not perfect and neither is Poser. People talk about how it should be since they had three years, but then Poser really should be perfect. They have had a lot longer. I will continue to use both.. I do not have issues, history, or hang-ups that prevent me from seeing the usefulness of the program. I will recommend D|S to anyone interested in 3D Art of this nature. It is a great way to get your feet wet without having to jump in feet first! I wish D|S was available when I started into this realm. Would I have bought Poser... eventually, but I most likely would not have bought P5 when I did! (Loved that material room really had some issues with much of the rest!) I most likely will not buy P7, unless I get a really good deal, but that has nothing to do with the fact D|S is available. I supported CL/e-frontiers with the purchase of P6 and it works for me, but until they can improve the Startup Time and a few other issues of convienance, I will hold judgement on the next version and not be a guinea pig. Will I buy every Plug-in for D|S? No. I got the free ones and I might pick up one or two that appeal to me and will help me with my work flow, but I am not likely to buy it because it is released. I feel some of the proposed Plug-ins need to be in the base program at some point (and no Magnets and Power Pose are not two that I think need to be there!) I use D|S to test concepts and figure out layouts due to the speed of D|S, but in the end I do the image in Poser to take advantage of features which Poser contains. I would pay for a good convertor that would allow me to import D|S Scenes into Poser. I also use D|S if I am going to Bryce (and I would like to see some improvements there!) On the content issue... P5 had a great improvement in content, the additions to the Content of P6 were a disappointment. With that said, I rarely use P5 figures or P6 figures. I have yet to use Apollo in a final render of a project, though I hope to change that with the use of Wardrobe Wizard (and I hate everyone calling it WW, that is Dark Whispers Logo for Wacky World and should be respected by this community! Call Wardrobe Wizard, Wardrobe Wizard or the Wizard, not WW.) Lastly, for me to totally give up Poser, Particles and ShaderSpider would need to work in D|S!

Hey, lets switch. I give the guy my DS and he gives me P6... Fair isn't it ? grin Seriously, DS may be superior over plain P4. May be compared to ProPack (except Python scripting which is vital to Wardrobe Wizard users). But it won't win with P5 with its dynamic features, and certainly is far behind P6 with all that new lighting stuff.

I use dynamic cloth and dynamic hair far too often to consider switching to D|S at this point. But I assume dynamic hair and cloth plugins are coming.

I think Anton is right. In the short run, competition may be a good thing. In the end, though, there can be only one. I don't think there's enough customers to support two different programs. With Poser 7 and the next version of D|S, I predict there will be advanced rigging. Which won't be compatible with both D|S and Poser. People will have to choose, or be mired in the P4 past.

randym77 said - "I think Anton is right. In the short run, competition may be a good thing. In the end, though, there can be only one. I don't think there's enough customers to support two different programs."

I don't agree. I don't think DAZ would have wasted a lot of time, money and effort creating DAZ Studio if they didn't think there was a market big enough. After all, they only have to look at the sales figures of their products to determine how many people are "within" that potential market.

Cheers

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 08:03

I believe the original reason for DS was because of the P5 EULA. But it makes sense for a content maker to offer a free program for people to use their stuff in. There are actually a growing number of newbies who are starting out in DS. They are still learning and they aren't going to miss the fancy stuff in P6 because they aren't ready for it yet, they to need to get a grip on the basics first.

Meanwhile, eF is going where CF never went/failed to go, - releasing new original characters.

So the 2 big camps are crossing into each other's territory, I figure this is a good thing, because it opens up the possiblities.

As a long time Poser user, I may not switch to DS because that would be yet another program to have to learn, and who has time for that? Can DS open pz3s? Does DS to do something P4, PP, P6 can't? I dunno, but if I were a content maker, I would make my product work on P4, PP, P5, P6, and DS.

bB

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 08:21

Imo DAZ is just trying to create a base in which they will not depend on others and are stuck to demand of others. They want to give orders and not take orders anymore. They don't want to depend on Poser, but be in the position to tell the creators of Poser what they want and not the other way around. Until now DAZ had to stick to Poser format, I'm pretty sure they want it the other way around, have Poser stick to their format. In the end it's all about the money and who's boss. That's what D/S is about, the money and to become the boss in the poser world. It's not only the development of D/S, but other apps like Bryce that give me this impression. It's all about independancy and I don't blame them! If it's a good development or not, we will see in the future. Of course a lot of it depends on merchants too. I'm pretty sure we will see some D/S only pilot projects in the near future. If D/S can have a good user base and the users are willing to invest into D/S only content then there may be a whole new development. As for a division in the community, wake up it's there already. We already have P6 only stuff, there is already free D/S only content, so division has started already and I'm sure we will see more of it.

Funny how it seems the needs are a bit reversed.

Poser has the tools for the content creators but lacks some finer elegance the "render only" users want

Studio has all the ease of a push pin, but lacks any ability to generate content.

To me Cheers makes a point.

"I don't think DAZ would have wasted a lot of time, money and effort creating DAZ Studio if they didn't think there was a market big enough."

Does it really make sense that Daz would spend three years and fully ignore two new versions of Poser if there WEREN'T planning on it being an eventual replacement.

The whole point, as we all remember, was to NOT have to rely on Poser. :) Peole forget that.

Yes not it is a fine freebie, but come'on. You really think this is just about a fun new toy that probably cost a mil or two and three years of full time resources.

hehe. People are naive. "It's all about the content Baby!" The base is free and cost is to be recovered through plugins.

10 Plugins later you still don't think it will be an alternative.

Hey look at it this way: when you have a Rendo Poser mod at Daz saying how much better she like DS over aweful Poser, that is a sign of division.

Just take the time to really think about it.

Everyone knows I am not a fan of copying. My opinion Studio is a tacky "poser lite". They are famous for their free LE versions afterall. Give away the base and rack it in on the add-ons. We all know how this works. :)

Considering how old the content is that STudio was originally wriiten to support is, it is tacky tacky tacky. No different than copying Vicki. I don't care what anyone says. Tacky tacky tacky. But all they do is copy anyway so it makes sense.

I think Studio is a fine app. I just think it would be more glorious if it were a matter of fair cometetion, not trying to create a glossy/streamlined "immitation of Poser". Think of someone making a copy of Vicki that uses all her clothes. They would say : "We can't allow it because it prevents the user from requiring the original figure. Well excuse me but where is the difference? Load the content, familiar features, supported files formates. But guess what. You don't need Poser. hmmmmm. lol Of course they are saying it isn't a replacement. Otherwise what would that make them?

PS: Does the STudio shipped content import in Poser4 and ProPack?? After all it isn't a repalcement right?

Forgive any typos.

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 08:33

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 08:42

Just one more important thing which is; I think DAZ have the upper hand over e-frontier about knowing what the potential market is. Take me for example...I originally got P4 as a free promotion with Cinema4DXL many years back, installed it, entered the S/N but never bothered to registrate the product with CL, but DAZ are fully aware of the sales they have had from me to expand my Poser content. I wonder how many other users there are like me? How many people have purchased Poser, but not yet registrated with CL/e-frontier. Maybe it's different now, with P5 or P6...I wouldn't know, I haven't purchased them. How can e-frontier make the most use of the potential market when they don't even know the full extent of it ;) Cheers

Quote:- "Personally, I think any content person who agrees to the Eula is a fool, but that is just my opinion."

Anton could you amplify this please.

grins at Phil
PHil you know how this goes. I start having an opinion and then Dan comes in and has his mod lock the post. hehehe

Let's just say articles 10,14, and 15 of the EULA are unacceptable. They could be seen as unconditional and non-specific. Article 15 could be seen as an indefinate and all-encompassing NDA and could be seen as Non-compete.

Regardless of what the intentions are, I believe the wording to be something to have a lawyer look at if you operate a Poser Business.

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 09:11

Which EULA, eF or DAZ?

We should all throw these into our products. hehehe

I remember when poser started out with stick figures, and look where it is now. We are in version 1 of studio. I think it's great that we have choices, and that folks who really can't afford poser and daz models have a chance to jump in and play with the rest of us. Whether you get the plug-ins or not, I think it's a great program. I understand that some folks have had a hard time with Daz, some have had a hard time with other stores, it's a fact of life that not everyone agrees. Everyone can read the EULA, and at least it's there in print and out in the open, makes a choice available. I don't think there will be a big division, at least not yet. I think as studio grows there will be more plugins that are comparable to poser, and if you want to use them great, if not you don't have to buy them. All in all, we will tend to use what works best with what we do. I intend to check out studio fully, but I also have pro pack, poser 5 and poser 6 installed. Don't know if I'll buy poser 7, I think they need to work on 6 and rebuild 7 from the start. Just my humble opinion, Marque

"Does it really make sense that Daz would spend three years and fully ignore two new versions of Poser if there WEREN'T planning on it being an eventual replacement."<<<< So Daz intends Studio to be a replacement for poser? Pardon me, but why should poser users fear such plans?? "10 plugins later "or not it wont stop anyone,EF or third party, from developing new poser content. (shader spider, real skin shader, wardrobe wizard, puppet master, Mikki Apollo maximus ,project human etc.) what vital Poser technology does DAZ truly own and can take away from us?? Vicky's JPs?...... Pffffttt!! that INJECT/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA BULLSH*T requiring the presence of nearly 800 support files per unimess clone??....please ;-/ Not seeing the ominous, evil conspiracy here consider looking outside the jaded world of poser for a moment There was Deep paint 3D first then MAXON created Bodypaint 3D with the rather obvious goal of going after Deep paint 's market Now luxology's incredible MODO 201 is looking to replace Maxons Bodypaint in many artist toolset. life in the big city :-) as far as DAZ's EULA is concerned I imagine mature adult,s with wise legal council, will decide for themselves if its terms are acceptable the same way they do when they agree to the terms of a mortgage contract etc. and if it is as Draconian and restrictive as some are apparently alleging then that will be a problem for DAZ not poser USERS.

I think DAZ|Studio pulls the plug on Poser Artist. It's got comparable functionality (excluding magnets) and a better renderer, and it's perfect for newcomers who want to try their hand at 3D rendering. To be competitive with Poser 5, D|S would need: - magnets and wave deformers; - procedural materials; - dynamic cloth; - dynamic hair; - figure creation tools comparable with the Setup room; - Python support; - Animation; - and probably more. I think the cost of the plugins that provide this functionality - when they are developed, if ever - will be a lot more than the current P5 list price. And I'm not even talking about the advanced lighting options in P6 (mostly IBL and AO). ProPack is another matter. While it beats D|S in the creation department (setup room, scripts), D|S has the superior renderer. So it all depends on what the user wants. An easy to use posing/rendering tool? D|S. Animation, scripting? ProPack. Animation, scripting, and more advanced features? P5 or P6. I think it's strange that D|S does not support scripting out of the box. I ALWAYS write my apps to be scriptable, just by separating functionality from user interface and exposing the functionality through an object oriented API. A fairly common development style, and recommmended best practice by a lot of programming authorities (it's one of the few issues Sun and MS agree about...) I fervently hope eF will rewrite Poser from the ground up for version 7, and make everything scriptable. Oh, and while they're at it, I hope they will release 64bit versions too for both Windows and Mac. And Linux too, please!

"competition may be a good thing. In the end, though, there can be only one."<<<< UHhhhh....Why??? MAYA,Lightwave 3D,3D MAX Cinema4D.Side effects Houdini,Softimage XSI all Co-exist wings3D ,Silo,Hexagon all Co-exist Motionbuilder, project Messiah, endorphin all Co-exist Vue Bryce.Carrara pro all Co-exist please explain why only one "poseresque" posing/rendering program can exist.

re: Post #34 by Anton ....... (very nicely presented Anton)

Hmmm ... That is kind of scary and ...

It would appear that the EULA was written by lawyers for lawyers, no?

That's just MVHO ............. I could be wrong. (<--- legal disclaimer) ... ;=]

cheers, (anyway)
dr geep
;=]

wolf359 said, "Now luxology's incredible MODO 201 is looking to replace Maxons Bodypaint in many artist toolset." I don't think it will do that...not yet anyway. Saying that though Modo has replaced my modelling toolset (having used C4DXL for a number of years) and the 3D Painting is a biiiiiiig bonus. wolf359 also said,"Pardon me, but why should poser users fear such plans?? "10 plugins later "or not" I think you are missing the point, my friend. People will use the software that suits their production workflow the best. Who knows what will happen in the future. What would happen if DAZ included soft body dynamics, particles, muscle group animation, mental ray renderer, advanced node shading, import and export from/to many 3D applications, 3d painting, micro or sub-polygonal dissplacement, fur etc, etc...ok, this may or may not happen, but if 3 years down the line you have the same toolset in Poser as now, you won't fear Studio...you'll be chomping at the bit to try it. I never thought that I would ever change from C4D modelling...but here I am working with one of the best modellers of it's type in the industry (the afore-mentioned Modo) Cheers

Oh, and can I just say thank you to everybody for this thread...it hasn't sunk down into a flame war, but a very interesting and intelligently written conversation. As a prize I all give you all a "give yourself a good pat on the back" ;) Keep it up and don't let me eat my own words :) Cheers

Is EULA a character from gone with the wind? ;) All the fancy plugins for daz studio will not be free, so even getting it to the same state as propack will cost you.

Message edited on: 09/19/2005 10:57

"What would happen if DAZ included soft body dynamics, particles, muscle group animation, mental ray renderer, advanced node shading, import and export from/to many 3D applications, 3d painting, micro or sub-polygonal dissplacement, fur etc, etc...ok, this may or may not happen, but if 3 years down the line you have the same toolset in Poser as now, you won't fear Studio...you'll be chomping at the bit to try it."<<< ALL of these feature are available in MAYA complete today to any poser user wanting to move up to them and PAY the $$$price$$$$$$$ Again Why should poser USERS be concerned/worried that such features may someday exist in DAZ studio?? >>'I never thought that I would ever change from C4D modelling...but here I am working with one of the best modellers of it's type in the industry (the afore-mentioned Modo)"<< YES i just jumped to Carrara Pro4 from C4D because it supports direct import of PZ3's and has HDRI/GI in the base package .

"What would happen if DAZ included soft body dynamics, particles, muscle group animation, mental ray renderer, advanced node shading, import and export from/to many 3D applications, 3d painting, micro or sub-polygonal dissplacement, fur etc, etc..." Add all this, and I'll switch from Poser to D|S in a HEARTBEAT, and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it. LOL. ;-P

It's about the green, mula, benjamins, bottom line. Plugins sold means money. Content sold means money. Software sold means money. A long time ago in a far off time, this was all about art, inovation, and creativity. DazStudio vs Poser? It will become that. The one to "win" will be the program that comes closest to having a "Make Art Button" and simplifys things down so advanced features are toy like in their implemetation. It's all rather sickening to be apart of, read, and watch. Remember the past. Remember a company called Metacreations. The past can repeat itself. Hallowed are the Oreye.

"ALL of these feature are available in MAYA complete today" Just for the record, they're all also available in 3dsmax v7 and up too, which is a couple thousand $$$ cheaper than the Maya Unlimited package which, I believe, is the one you meant to specify, since I don't think Complete carries some of those features. ;-)

Until DAZ Studio has animation tools I'll stick with Poser. Whats it been now? Like in version 4 Daz started working on the "Poser Replacement" and now we are in in version 6 with 7 coming down the pike. Still haven't been able to get Studio out of beta. And this is where you want to put your eggs?

For the record, D|S is out of beta. Well, at least no one can say DAZ hurried through the beta stage - 2 years!

After the recent, and untimely, death of my USB drive (and all my Poser files) I downloaded and installed D/S 1.0 and reinstalled a bunch of Poser goodies. I have to say that I personally am impressed. It hasn't crashed or locked up my computer once, it renders in incredibly short periods of time when compared to P5, and yes, I know there is stuff it won't do, but that's ok...I'm having a good time anyway. Will it replace Poser for me? No. Will it give me another tool in my toolbox? Definately.

Attached Link: Lightwave version of a Poser figure