Nudity is alowed on the second and third promos, just not on the first one or the thumbnail. And I don't see why people are getting so upset, this policy has been in effect for over a year.

I actually meant you could set up an extra website for characters and texture sets for figures like Aiko, Laura or Maddie that are not allowed to show nude at all. I know that you can use nudity on promo 2 and 3 but I think not for the figures I mentioned before. Or am I wrong with this?

m_m: it's not about the 2nd & 3rd promo issue. it's about declaring girl and aiko underage so that no images of them nude are allowed anywhere on the site, including 2nd and 3rd promos.

Tu salus fidelium Salve sancta parens In christo credentium Virgo labe carens Salve virgo virginum Salve sancta parens

these are the figures that cannot be nude at all on any promos in the market, Aiko Hiro Koshini Ichiro Krystal LaRoo Miki Mill Kids Rosy Cheeks Lina The Girl Terai Yuki E J

Hi cobaltdream: it's about declaring girl and aiko underage so that no images of them nude are allowed anywhere on the site That's incorrect. As stated earlier, the gallery policy hasn't changed. We're making judgement calls on individual cases, just as we always have done. Hi Maus, I know that you can use nudity on promo 2 and 3 but I think not for the figures I mentioned before. Or am I wrong with this? That's correct. Figures with the appearance of being underage need to be shown with a bikini at minimum. Karen

Ew a Yoko Ono album. I heard something on the radio that made me gag... as to how to really offend someone... and that was to have Fran Drescher from the nanny sing YokoOno songs. That visual is just wrong. Crawls into a corner and shakes. As to what was going on here with the banned merchants, etc. This is the first time I heard of it. If I can't find something I want to buy on this site, I just go someplace else etc. If rosity want's to get rid of something for whatever reason.... well it is their site. They can do what they want. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot in the process.

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 12:44

Yoko Ono's early albums "Fly," "Approximately Infinite Universe," and "Plastic Ono Band" are superb examples of rock experimentation of that era. Long before people like Laurie Anderson and Brian Eno were praised for merging the art and music scenes, Yoko had done it. During the original punk rock era, many artists credited Ono for her inspirational role. I realize that this is exceedingly off topic but maybe the exorcism needed here is a banishment of the demon of ignorance and anti-avantgardism. It never ceases to amaze me how much this alleged artist's community hates art. :-) I'd appreciate knowing if these policies are REALLY a matter of being in PayPal's good graces as some apologists would have it, or if it's actually a decision that was made for other reasons more proximate to the staff's values and vision of the site. Does anyone on the staff who actually knows care to elucidate?

OT..SORRY: hey Karen,if your still watching,check im's please :0) -3dz

Yoko Ono= art? I'm sorry, those three words in the same sentance just seem like some kind of oxymoron. Yoko Ono's voice= fingernails scratching a blackboard That's more appropriate. Bartworx, as for your two euro cents. That's some fairly broad generalizations you make. Maybe you should quit watching recycled TV shows and take a trip over here. America is a broad canvas, don't try to paint it with a single brush. -jay

karen1573- thanks for the clarification, but that actually makes it a bit more confusing to me. but is 3dzone correct too (about all the other meshes)? and if girl and aiko have been declared "underage" meshes, exactly what does that imply? and can you explain anything about the ok for the galleries but not ok for the marketplace policy (if that is in fact true)? so are you basically making all toons except the neftoons underage? and is there a place i can go to where these changes were announced?

I see the proeblem with America as being that they make all this fuss about nudity, as seems to be the case here at Renderosity, yet at the same time it's one of the biggest sources of explicit pornography on the planet. And the basic principle that Renderosity are following is not something I find objectionable. It's just that the specific seem to be getting a little ridiculous. I don't know if that list which The3DZone posted is correct -- I'd like to see some sort of official source for that -- but when it includes Miki and EJ I start to doubt it. I reckon that Miki is one of the most realistically shaped adult human bodies available for Poser. And if that model is on some sort of "underage" list used by Renderosity, it starts to look insane.

Hi colbaltdream, the list 3DZ posted is a preliminary list of meshes automatically considered "underage" in terms of marketplace promos. It's possible Neftoon Gal/Pal will also be added; I will bring it to Admin's attention. As I said before, the gallery policy hasn't changed. Judgement calls are made by the staff on individual cases. These changes were announced in the Merchant forum. As they don't affect those not brokering here, a site-wide announcement was not thought necessary. ("Hey shoppers! From now on, you'll need to go to page 2 to get your daily dose of boobs!") Hope this helps. Karen

" these are the figures that cannot be nude at all on any promos in the market, Aiko, Hiro, Koshini, Ichiro, Krystal, LaRoo, Miki, Mill Kids, Rosy Cheeks Lina, The Girl, Terai Yuki, E J" SWEET. I guess I can upload my Katie the Crack Whore set?

um, this isn't just a "get your daily dose of boobs" issue. you may feel that, as this is the second comment of that type you've made. for me, this is completely relevant since as a customer i won't be seeing any complete promos for textures of my two favorite characters: Miki and Aiko. which means unless it's by one of a few merchants i already trust, i won't be buying. and i stand by my statement that declaring toon and anime (and apparently, asian) figures "underage" is really silly. i wasn't suggesting to add the neftoon gal/pal, but of course you all must do as you see fit (no sarcasm intended). as for people commenting on how these threads keep coming up, it seems natural to me since the rules keep changing.

Oo thanks Starkdog, guess we forgot the Poser native people. So you better put that product on hold ;-) Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't. Cobaltdream, right, I see what you mean. If it's really important to you to see the nipples and genital area prior to purchase, you could always contact the merchant to ask if they have full-body promos available, or just stick with trusted merchants as you said you do at Daz. Hope this helps Karen :-)

Hi Khai! Sorry if you feel my attitude was snotty. I prefer to think of it as factual. Would adding some more smilies help? You want the criteria? You would have to ask Admin, I don't know that. store@renderosity.com Hope this helps. Karen

Attached Link: http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/lasik/

Well, if DAZ can do a promotion to donate to a local charity, perhaps Renderosity can set up a similar promotion. However, the Admin team will win this prize. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/lasik/

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 16:37

LOL Starkdog!

No probs :-)

"Khai - Miki is on the list as considered appearing too young to appear nude in MP promos. You may consider that Vicky looks the same age, but the Admin team don't." I hypothesise that the Admin team were bottle-fed as babies. Boys, only a very few real women have a shape like Vicky. Your image of the adult female seems to be constructed with the scalpel, corsetry, or Photoshop Quick, somebody submit a Japanese Granny texture/bumpmap set for Miki.

karen1573 - i do appreciate your clarification. that said, pm'ing every artist in the marketplace isn't my idea of an easy shopping time. if you can communicate to the Admin team the request that they actually announce major changes like this in this (Poser, in case this gets moved for some reason) forum, that would be appreciated. when you say the galleries are the same as they always were- how are we to understand that? you say it goes by judgment- the same judgment that put default miki and default aiko as underage. since most people don't see miki that way and tend to render her without any more than expression and posing morphs, i could see this having a substantial impact on the galleries. also, aiko (and anime doll and maya doll, or have the Admins forgotten them as well?) at default is standard anime and frequently used for characters from age 18 to 30 or so. simply put, this classification as underage is relevant to anyone who might render these characters nude and has never thought of them as underage and therefore needing adjustment or covering. i certainly think this decision relevant to understanding the parameters of the judgment of underage (unless the Admins don't have a say in the gallery content)and to knowing what is necessary to avoid T.O.S. violation. also, since you imply it's largely unnecessary, egregious and somehow uncommon (possibly lewd?) to want to see all of a texture when buying it, why not just eliminate the nude promos altogether? if they're that irrelevant, wouldn't that make everyone else more comfortable?

well, as my opinion doesn't matter anyway ...here it is... this whole entire deal with these cartoons not being able to be shown without some sort of cover is plainly insane, as is the nudity on the first image tos ... as is the DAZ stance on nudity. Somewhere in the bible it mentioned that man was created as the image and likeness of God. How can you be so ashamed of seeing the naked human body? Of course, its the site owners perogative to run it as they think it should be, so the whole entire debate is moot. and if its the way they are setting it up and you don't like it, start your own site or go to one that is more to your liking . If Rendo starts losing business, maybe they will change their TOS...maybe not ... I really don't give a rats one way or another ...I'll spend my money somewhere else or not at all ... maybe go out to dinner with the wife instead.

Actually Karen that didn't help, it came across as patronizing and condescending. This site has an unfortunate history of the staff treating the membership with that sort of tone. Believe me, it affects marketplace sales.

Hi cobaltdream, The Marketplace and Galleries are run separately, by different teams. My fellow mods and coords are responsible for day-to-day decision making on gallery images. Hence, I can say that this issue will not be impacting the galleries at this time. (I'm gonna put that "at this time" in there, because if things change a couple of years down the line, I don't want anyone holding me to something I had no right to guarantee!) As ever, if you're concerned prior to posting about a character's perceived age (or other TOS issue) please feel free to shoot any of us a line and we'll discuss it in the staff room and let you know if it's okay, or if not okay, try and suggest a way of bringing it within TOS. (We really prefer doing this than removing pics from the gallery!) also, since you imply it's largely unnecessary, egregious and somehow uncommon (possibly lewd?) to want to see all of a texture when buying it, why not just eliminate the nude promos altogether? Sorry if you felt I implied that; it wasn't the intention. Just trying to find a possible solution for you on these particular characters. There's no plan to eliminate nudity from promos 2 and 3. I'm not privy to the admin meetings and whatnot, but I'd imagine the projected possible payoff in terms of customers gained would be outweighed in customers lost due to (as you point out) not being confident in quality if they can't see the full tex. By the way and just to add. As an MP tester, I always check that nipples and genital details (if present) are present and correct. If you were to ever buy a texture from here which had, I don't know, misplaced nipples or something, you'd be within your rights to ask for a refund. Hope it helps. Karen :-)

Actually Karen that didn't help, it came across as patronizing and condescending. Sorry to hear that. Can you be more specific about which bit? (as so far I've ended all my posts with that, as usual) Karen :-)

OK let's just agree that you were joking instead of making an issue of it. :-) Do you know if the policies regarding RMP nudity, specifically the alleged ban on nude images of certain meshes like Aiko 3.0 because of apparent age are actually related to PayPal's rules, or is it a policy choice separate from that?

Message edited for grammar on: 12/30/2005 18:24

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 18:26

Okey-doke :-) ...related to PayPal's rules, or is it a policy choice separate from that? I don't know - as I said a bit earlier, I'm not privy to the decision-making process. I will flag this question for their attention and let you know as soon as poss. Karen :-)

I can tell you from the merchants forum that they didnt give them any criteria either It was based on and I quot if the character appeared too young to the majority of the Admin team. Now think there were many merchants that thought they were covered because they redid their thumbs and first promo pics only to get this list of unacceptable nude characters dumped on them the 27th with no warning or time to adjust. Renderosity is throwing away good and profitable products with promo images that in no way look like nude children simply because of a list that many are finding questionable. Because many of the merchants have decided that its just not worth the effort to replace very well thought out and artistically pleasing promo pics (I can tell you its hard to come up with them once let alone twice and on short notice based on the opinions of those who cant tell Jessica Rabbit from Little Orphan Any) Yes many over stylized characters (or Asian characters as well) are going to look young without textures and clothing, heck most of us can make any character look young or old based on our own whims.

Hi xoconostle and others interested, I got an answer from Clint on the "is it paypal's fault" question. Clint says, "It has nothing to do at all with Paypal. Its a business decision that we made to help us expand our market." Hope this answers your question - if you have more specific concerns/queries I am really going to have to direct you to the store@renderosity.com address because it's nearly 1am for me and I'm going to bed ;-) Cheers all Karen :-)

Then why not give merchants the option to mark nude promo images the way they are done in the galleries so that customers dont see them if they don't want to? Youre not going to expand in Asin markets if you list anime and Asin characters as underaged.

Well, I can see my self diluted thread sprouted wings overnight and took on several different ideals; some common and endless, and some other interesting points brought up.

I understand that DAZ has never condoned nude promo images, and I don't buy many characters there at all simply because most of my favorite character merchants are here...for the time being. If Renderosity wishes to simply globablly standardize Promo Image #1 and the product thumbnail, fine. Although, when I go to wyrmmaster's gallery, it's wall to wall breasts even in the product thumbs. The man sells boob morphs, that makes sense to me, no complaint.

What I believe I tried to state was that this site has bigger and more pressing issues at hand regarding bandwidth/server problems than to be adding to them by having merchants change these images until these problems are addressed. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of getting 'MySQL has gone away' (and trust me, not far enough) errors every weeknight and then waiting 5 minutes for a page to load on broadband cable.

Given these issues, and perhaps the underscoring tone of ruckus of quite a few merchants here, I'm simply stating we have more problems than 3D bare breast images to deal with, and they need to be the primary focus. If the site crawls down to a snail's pace (or down completely), promo images and the market place are completely rendered useless.

In other words, fix the engine before worrying about the tires. I understand a few weeks ago the ram was doubled in the servers, and from a diagnostic standpoint, this did not change the performance much.

Again, I'm not pointing fingers or assigning blame, but it just seems like another case of trimming the fat on a dead cow. And for the life of me I can't seem to put a finger on this site's priority list - the logic completely eludes me.

Server first, boobs later. I hope that is simple enough. =) Regarding Clint's business model of expanding the market; isn't a half functioning site and a slew of big name merchants leaving the site sort of countering that ideal a bit? And not only have we been losing quality merchants, but we have lost their art in their galleries and no way to even contact them as they have fled in exile. This just doesn't sound right to me and it is indeed creating a bit of a negative buzz on all sides of the fence of consumer and merchant. Not to mention some of us who have been working very hard for months to present a product to this store, but are very reluctant now. I think the model is driving in reverse here. =)

Message edited on: 12/30/2005 19:07

sigh...Look you don't need to wiggle your ding dong to know it's there, Just say nude image mapping to texture and show as much as you can without flashing or mooning everyone and your product should sell ok i think. I mean if i got to see a big blow up of a figures genitals before i purchase it then thats pretty wierd since i can clearly make a good choise without seeing a figure butt nakid.

Also many of you may not know this but alot of women find some of the images offensive to the point that they run rammpent throughout the site where they can't go 2 or 3 pages without having giant boobs jump out at them, you know this makes some women kinda sick of it, I don't think giant boobs are art since a specific part of the anatomy seems to be the main target of interest, same with big giant penises, i don't see how targeting a specific part of someones privates for enlargment art. But that is my opinion and also the opinion of some other people as well so maybe the new rules are good for all of us to work in a cleaner professional inviroment?

Thought i could ask while we're at it.. what happened to the majority of items of Baron Vlad Harkonnen? Was he the subject too of the enforced policy?

@Tucan-Tiki
I'm a woman and i'm not shocked with giant boobs or gigantic penises, and they're not REAL anyway, to each its own though.
On that perspective i could be shocked at the pubescent fairies and pregnant women (yes there are kinks for everything) and loads of blood and mutilated corpses and and and.. (insert endless list here), but i'm not, and i certainly won't judge who is.

To Guida: Great attitude, I enjoyed reading that! I believe in pro-choice very much, and it's too bad the rest of the world doesn't think that way. So far, this month's casualty list includes the following: DarkWing-Zero - (All deleted solo products, going to DAZ) DarkScorn/Soulsilver - (Banned for some lame reason) NemainRavenwood - (Partially deleteded store) Baron Vlad Harkonnen - (Mostly deleted store) I'm upset about all of these for many reasons. 1.) DarkWing-Zero had announced she would be leaving and gave customers a notice her products would be here for one last week ending the 31st. They started disappearing way before this against her wishes and many didn't have a change to get them before they disappear. Very unprofessional of this site to do that. 2.) With Darkscorn/Soulsilver, there was a minor issue with a new pack and a major merchant here, and the site took the side of the Big $$ with no chance to fix the problem. I have the pack as a gift from them and have found no resemblences, but they are the new kids on the block, so... 3.) NemainRavenwood I'm not sure, but this merchant has been at DAZ for quite awhile anyway. Perhaps couldn't login to the site as it's up and down like a yoyo lately. 4.) This really sucks. The BVH stuff I use quite a bit and didn't get a chance to pickup all the V3 stuff I wanted. I also used his store as a reference for my credits list. No warning, no clue, just gone. Sucks! I'm sure this list will grow immensely over time, and if anyone else has any other disbanded merchants to add I'd love to see it. I need to contact them to make arrangements and do my commerce elsewhere apparently. Big pain in the ass, waste of time, and just plain lame. I'm not sure if all this is coincidence or somehow related to site issues or admin relations, but they are dropping like flies so to speak. If it was just some guy selling texture sets for the Freebie Pet Rock I wouldn't care so much, but these merchants and artists I consider to be a great loss to "our" community. I've been modeling my own stuff in Hexagon lately and I'm thinking of just making my own props and clothes for my images, forget this whole thing! Market this! Laffs

Huh? BVH stuff gone? Had some on my wishlist, where to buy now?

Quote - Baron Vlad Harkonnen - (Mostly deleted store)

Deleted or just removed from view pending new images? People are jumping to all kinds of conclusions here. Just sit back, enjoy the new year and see what unfolds. Honestly, it's probably not as bad as so many here are making it out to be. Wait and see what happens, gather the real facts and then state your position. No sense speculating and jumping to all kinds of conclusions.

Well Ive been fighting about this in the merchant forum (well not really fighting... having spirited arguments... since everything has to be so damn politically correct around here) I agree that children shouldnt be shown naked... I HOWEVER DONT AGREE that aiko, hiro and the like can be considered children (and that especially goes for how Dark-Wing Zero creates her characters) Really, the rule irritates me severely, its conforming to a bunch of whiners who cant stand the thought of a naked woman or man, and well, hehee Im a rebel by nature. I totally agree that this isnt artistic freedom. And yanno, it really didnt even affect me... I have none of those characters in my store. But alas, when all is said and done, Rendo will have its way like always. So Im pretty much done fighting or blowing out hot air to a wall. Oh and Shardz... the darkscorn/soulsiver thing was something entirely different. I dunno all the details either tho... still trying to figure that one out. And damn, I had no idea BVH left... he is one of my fave merchants (looking up now at last reply) But his following will follow him no doubt, just like all the other ones that are leaving (or will be)

Oh and ps: Those merchants with partially missing stores prolly have stuff in what is called "Holding" where they dont appear in the store, but theyre still on the server for revising. Just thought Id let everyone know.

Well, thank you, Iggy, for letting us know what a Holding area is here. I thought that was just for legal detainment at the police station. LOL! You know, after 97 responses, it would have been nice for the mods (they are doing a fantastic job, btw, no condemning from me) or someone to come out and explain this to avoid mass boycotting. I have never seen a site with so much tension before and I think it's due to the shroud of mystery and lack of communication in a place where we let our imagination and dreams loose. I can only speak for myself when I say that I pour my heart into what I do, and it's almost like a betrayal to pull up a page with that prop you have had in your list for 6 months for your scene and to see it gone. All I have to say is this; I don't see any of this at DAZ. I will gladly trade in the nipples for a stable marketplace. Perhaps because they have had a steady ruleset from day one and they don't change their minds every week on their TOS. Anything can happen at a drop of a hat here, and some people (like myself) plan scenes; this means characters, props, hair, etc. Some of it I don't have and intend on buying when I'm ready for production of a scene. It really stems down to what someone once said over a year ago here, and I didn't understand exactly what he meant. A merchant had something 'hot' that just went up, and he said, "Get it while you can". Now I know exactly what he meant. There is an Art to communication, and this site suffers from it greatly at times. Rumors fly like angry crows, but I was informed from some merchant friends, and even those 'accused' and have very different stories. But then again, I guess there are two sides to every coin. Even the three sided coins that seem to be dropping like rain around us here. Thank you for clearing this up, Iggy, and I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who shows up in 2006 and where. It's almost like running a Presidential campaign on the consumer side, I can't even imagine what it's like on the merchant side. A little comforting word on the admin's part would be nice to educate us on their part as it seems there are 10 different stories that seem to interact between several merchants. Let's clear the myth and get down to professionalism, Renderosity! This isn't the new Matrix IV movie we are talking about. You know it's getting bad when I start talking about modeling my own clothes and lingerie! I'm crazy enough to do it, too! Laffs

Hiro, Aiko and Terai Yuki "underaged"? Miki? Eternal Judy? The Girl? Hiro, Aiko and TY are stylized manga figures. Miki and EJ are rather obviously adult. The only thing underaged about the Girl is her name. What in the seven names of hell is being used as a guideline here? I can see some of Sarsa/Thorne's stuff for Aiko as being underaged, but Idler's character for Miki? It's obviously not breast size. It's not eye size. What is it? I have no problem with /obviously/ underaged figures being barred from nudity. However, I have a real problem with subjective rules, rather than objective, set down from "on high" - especially when they make piss-all sense.

Oh, and at least Yoko was original, which is more than I can say for a lot of Poser art these days. ;)

LOL!!! Well, maybe our holding area can be considered the same way. Our characters are being held coz of breaking the law. Ann0314 and I have a running joke... everytime a character of ours get held in pending, we say "LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!!" LOL Kinna fits here as well. But all joking aside, yeah, they dont like to explain the merchant side to the people who arent - or maybe its just that theyre too busy in the merchant forum hosing down angry dogs to even get to explain here LOL (myself included) But I digress, it does create confusion and havoc... sales have slowed down for sure (and Im not sure if its coz this or just that everyone is broke from Christmas lol) I totally agree, they change the rules so often here that no one knows whats going to happen tomorrow, or the next day. Kinna makes it hard to plan on staying at Rendo permanently. As for stable... I dont think it will ever be. In the year Ive been a merchant, it has only gotten more crazy. Go fig lol

Blah. I just deleted my current shopping cart, private wishlist, and public wishlist. Most of that in my wishlist are probably gone anyway and I'm not going go through hundreds of them to find out which ones are still available. I was able to get some items before the last "bondage" purge. This time around, there was no warning. The merchants lose out. The customers lose out. Blah. oh yeah. happy new year.

"Yoko Ono= art? I'm sorry, those three words in the same sentance just seem like some kind of oxymoron." Jay7347

Actually, Yoko was an artist long before her career in 'music'. It was at an exhibition of her sculpture that John Lennon met her, after admiring one of her pieces and asking to meet the artist. Anyway thanks, I haven't checked this forum out in a few days and I have laughed so hard I almost dropped my pitchfork in my popcorn. Where do you people get this stuff?

"Then they came for the G.I.R.L.
and I did not speak out
because her breasts are way too large..." Stahlratte

"...renders are Vicky3 in a temple in a burka with a sword." WmTheBloody

"...I boycott WalMart ... who want pants on dogs." mickmca

"In the states one can blow off somebody's head with a 44 magnum. That you can buy on every street corner... Just my 2 Euro cent's." BARTWORX

"Crocheting sites are actually banned because the word crochet to them = crotch."

"Anyway it's only perverts who would wish to look at naked 3d models in the first place." Lucifer_The_Dark

"I hypothesise that the Admin team were bottle-fed as babies." AntoniaTiger

"("Hey shoppers! From now on, you'll need to go to page 2 to get your daily dose of boobs!") Hope this helps." Karen

"BARTWORX , take your 2 cents and stick them up Eurass," America

"Vicky in a Walmart with a .44 magnum and a dog wearing pants. Now THAT'S entertainment, American-style." Qualien

Happy New Year's Eve!

Quote - Yoko was original

And may I add that I hope we never see another so "original" so long as I live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am shocked with gigantic penises!

Sigh. I was just trying to find something the other day that may actualy be in holding. As a customer I didn't know that. :(
Message edited on: 12/30/2005 23:51

Sounds like we are in a giant secret pit stop here. As I said earlier (800 posts ago), they are trying to fix the wheels before the engine with no flag to the driver. Absolutely the most unorganized event I have ever seen on any site to date. I'm really getting irrate with this entire unorganization, and I have more joy fixing my mom's computer.Laffs If this does't get resolved soon, I'm not posting here anymore or purchasing anything from this market, I'm just that tired of this. I won't even go into what SQL stands for, but it's not about efficiency. If I was admin on this site, I would advise all in the general forum of what is transpiring globally. I'll be in the market place in about 2-3 months, but I'm not sure it will be here with all there lame minor problems that stem into anthems due to lack of communication. The Chinese at least had an Abacus...perhaps flash cards are in order here for 2006?