Ive only caught like one post making mention of any changes here. Ive noted for a long time that most products have next to the links for the promo images the disclaimer "images 2 and 3 may contain artistic nudity". Now I read a post about product lines being pulled cause of promo pics and ive noted that many merchants that had 3 or more product pages suddenly have like 3 items TOTAL available. What the hell has happened? What went wrong with the disclaimer? Are all products just GONE or have they been hidden from member view by the admins until the merchants redo promo pics to eliminate any nudity? Was there any warning this was going to happen or was this discovered when merchants started noticing thier products dissapearing?

In a word? "Restructuring". In short? The no nudity rule on page 1 applies to all items, even the ones that were grandfathered before when that rule came into being. Also, certain figures (Aiko, The Girl, Miki, Mil Kids, and some others), are now considered "teen" and can no longer have any nudity of any kind anywhere in the MP. Gallery rules haven't changed. Items in the MP aren't gone. They are in a "holding area", pending new images from the merchants. Once the new images are received, the items are then put back into the MP.

so is the (in her 30's) Victoria 3 now considered a teen by RO? I note that three pages of Baron Vlad Harkonen's stuff is gone and mostly it was just fantasy tops that didnt completely cover V3's breasts/nipples. Clearly this has more to it going on than Aiko, GIRL and the obvious children models.

You know, the hypocrisy of this place is really over the top. Miki and The GIRL are "teens" so they have to be censored. How anyone could come to the conclusion that Miki is a "teen" is beyond me, and The GIRL is obviously no more a teen than Marilyn Monroe was in her voluptuous 20's. And meanwhile, Blackhearted's Nia, identified as a "teen morph" and marketed as the jailbait slut we all wish was our wife's favorite baby sitter, continues unchanged, perhaps because her nipples are covered with transparent KMart fake silk. Is there something in the water? M

bm

OK so HandspanStudio's Elf for Stephanie is not currently in the marketplace. When last in the marketplace its promo images included full nudity shots of the body texture. This character is based on Arwen from LOTR. Arwen from LOTR was 2778 years old when Her fiance became king. Thats TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED SEVENTY EIGHT for anyone that thought that was a typo. Assuming this product wasnt willingly pulled by Ingrid in a totally unrelated scenario, how is this character a teen please? Officially calling Bullshit. What arent we being told? Is paypal (no pal of mine) feeling tyrannical again (or still) or what? Is it time for some really net-business-savvy people to create an answer to paypal thats more friendly to the 3D art community? Surely there is enough intelligence and inventiveness here to come up with better business partner options. Just how much of the soul of RO does paypal have in hock anyway?

Aiko Hiro Koshini Ichiro Krystal LaRoo Miki Mill Kids Rosy Cheeks Lina The Girl Terai Yuki E J

Officially calling Bullshit. Thank you. Bullshit by look, smell, sound, and no doubt feel and taste. Paypal is not the only game in town, and I don't believe for a minute that anyone is twisting R'osity's poor otherwise nobly tolerant arm. Make that "calfshit." Renderosity, where it's Ok to pimp teens as long as you dress them in decent clothes. Make that a crock of calfshit. M

Miki is akin to Jesse. She isn't a teen model. Nor is she a High School age model. She is a fully grown adult, post college, woman. An asian woman, but still a woman. Her facial lines and body contours are too defined for a late teen.

Miki and GIRL are the onces that really makes my urine reach the heating point where it starts to evaporate. EJ? Silly, she's JUDY for chrissakes.. A prettier Judy, but that doesn't make her a teen anyway. And Hiro and Ichiro? The poor boys haven't even GOT anything you can censor? They're as anatomically correct as a Ken Doll... Sheeesh.......

In the nobly locked thread someone pointed out that in Europe R'osity would get slapped with a racism complaint for identifying Miki as "underage." EJ is such an utterly stupid choice it defies logic. I was just thinking about Koji (not affected) and struck by a sad idea. In America, feminine beauty and sexiness are associated by a direct ratio with youth. So the very fact that a female character is attractive means she is young. More attractive? More young.... The sad thing? Our fixation means that a woman's life is doomed to a downward spiral. Since she must age, she must become "less beautiful." What a sick culture. M

Okay, This is just hypocritial especially when Daz3D, which sells "The Girl" as an Original Item, calls the model an adult! You are calling anime figures teens!!! Okay, someone has no flippin' concept of that genre. This is ludcrious.

"identified as a "teen morph" and marketed as the jailbait slut we all wish was our wife's favorite baby sitter" OH DAMN! That is too funny! Y'kno, a real simple solution for this seemingly hypocritical marketing would be to have two sections for the marketplace. One section devoted to all of the stuff that doesn't require nudity to market the item (IE - shoes, hair, props). Another section for the texture paks and characters which should be shown nude so that the buyer understands what they are getting. Now, before entering the nude section, there will be approximately 58 pages of disclaimers and warnings that the surfer will have to navigate through in order to see tha goods. This way, all of those folks who insist on surfing at work won't have to worry about their boss catching them looking at "porn". And if he does, well then... it's their own goddamn fault. ...on to the rant... Just how far DOES this pathetic faggotry have to go? Everyday I see more and more instances of people being scared shitless at the mere idea of thinking for themselves!! And if you, the reader of this, are one of those types then... here's a good example of where life should imitate art - In the movie "AI", William Hurt plays a scientist in the future who creates very lifelike automatons. Take note that in any conversation where someone refers to his creations as 'him' or 'her', he will quickly correct them by saying 'you mean IT'. Well now, here's some food for thought... going out extra-special to the bible-belt-by-products at paypal and anywhere else: Aiko = IT Brat Pitt = HIM Hiro = IT Koshini = IT Kirsten Dunst = HER Rosanne Barr = HER Ichiro = IT Krystal = IT Ozzy Osbourne = HIM LaRoo = IT Clint Eastwood = HIM Miki = IT Mill Kids = THOSE (as in plural for two ITs) Nicole Kidman = HER Rosy (butt)Cheeks Lina = IT The Girl(hurl) = IT Terai Yuki(Throwa Pukey) = IT E J = IT Any chance of seeing a pattern here? The 'hims' and 'hers' are REAL people! The 'its' are computer generated polygons and ARE... NOT... REAL!!!!!!! So the next time ya see a 3D render of a naked fairy or any other figure that you think "might" be underage, don't bitch at the artist or the online community that they belong to. Instead, do something productive, like surfing the web for REAL 'kiddie-porn' sites and then reporting those to the authorities! And if that doesn't help to unwad your panties then seek some professional help... or better yet, overdose on valium and stop wasting MY air!!

Quote - Nicole Kidman = HER

Since her grossly bad plastic surgery.. I vote changing that to "IT".

Bookmark

So we won't be selling Miki textures here, because you can't show them? Far beyond ridicioulus...

Why can't you show them? Put a 2 piece bathing suit on her.

Why can't be selling? For many people it seems to be pretty unexpected but an average texture has more than breast and crotch areas. I know that might be rude to point out :D

People who buy large volumes of figure textures require being able to see all of what they are buying, especially hidden areas like those being covered, since it is generally those areas that are neglected when corners are cut.

The trick is to determine the net difference of how many products won't get sold due to artists going elsewhere versus the products that will get sold through Paypal over and above that.

Couldn't they just as easily provide a link to one of the many naked images in the Galleries? There is no shortage of those.

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 08:45

80% breast coverage. Seriously. That's what the merchant guidelines state.

The dog and pony show merchants are put though in Poserdom by the "I need to add my two cents" these days has gotten out of hand.

From what I keep reading, merchants are getting less and less respect and gratitude from what seems like a growing number of stores and members, who want to manage merchants by committee.

Merchants are self-employed, not employees.

You poke anything long enough and it either bites you or dies.

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 09:07

"Since her grossly bad plastic surgery.. I vote changing that to "IT" For real? SHE's had plastic surgery? What the hell for? She looked good to begin with! Do you have a link to before/after pics? I'd like to see those! Oh and... the idea of linking to gallery pics sounds good but, well... the 2nd and 3rd promo pics are also links on the same server. So I guess it's all the same. For me personally, any promo in the future that I see in the MP that doesn't tell all will just make me contact the seller privately. No big deal, really. I still stand against the placing age on "polygons" issue though. It's just not something to worry about!

Quote - Merchants are self-employed, not employees.

Yes, but so long as they "lease" space for their stores from someone else, they have to answer to their rules. If a merchant wants to be truly "self employed" and not have to answer to anyone but themselves and their ISP, then they would be encouraged to start up their own store to sell their products. That's the only way they will ever be truly "self employed".

Attached Link: http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/005432.html

Nicole Kidman, before, and after.

Linda you are mistaken. I have been an independant contractor for 15 years. I have worked every version of the independant contractor biz there is for 15 years. If you are responsible for paying your own taxes, you are "truly" self-employed. Firstly, a brokering arrangement is basically "You make the product and we host it and do the transactions". This arrangement may include site advertising and marketing. But that does NOT include making marketing decisions for individual products, less you are dealing with a "legal" issue, which this isn't. Store owners, who are ultimately responsible for all site content, can reject product not in line with what the store sells, but they should not cross the line into telling a broker how to sell, market, or design the product. Those decisions are the sole resposibility of the broker. The site provides space only, and should avoid interfering in anything aside from the hosting and transactions it's agreed to provide for it's percentage. If the site has contracted work to be done, it can be in exchange for a brokering percentage, but is not the same as a what I have described above.

Ok, I'll concede to that. I'm not a merchant and don't know how it all works, so you would know better than I in that regard. However, it seems that while it's a "contratual" arrangement, the business is still being conducted on someone else's property (Renderosity), and thus it's Renderosity that sets the tone of the rules that everyone else must follow. Years ago I used to do contract bookkeeping for some lawyers. I was an independent contractor in that I set my own rules, I paid my own taxes etc. However, because of the Law Society rules regarding confidentiality, my work had to be done on the premises. So while I might have been "independent", I was still subject to the office's rules of "no smoking", "no beverages near the computers" etc.

Here are some terms common to the industry both 3d and aboard. brokerage ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brkr-j) n. The business of a broker. A fee or commission paid to a broker. -------------------- Broker 1. An individual or firm that charges a fee or commission for executing buy and sell orders submitted by an investor. 2. The role of a firm when it acts as an agent for a customer and charges the customer a commission for its services. -------------------- Main Entry: independent contractor Function: noun : one that contracts to do work or perform a service for another and that retains total and free control over the means or methods used in doing the work or performing the service -------------------- Main Entry: consign Pronunciation: k&n-'sIn Function: transitive verb : to entrust (one's goods) to the possession of a dealer to be sold for profit or returned if unsold -------------------- self-employed (slfm-ploid) adj. Earning one's livelihood directly from one's own trade or business rather than as an employee of another. --------------------- proprietor: The owner of a one-person business.

Attached Link: Overview of Legal Issues for Digitization

On a side note: please read "Right to Publicity". I like the part on slannder too. Very concise. Lot of poser people throw that one around latelt. :) Remember is isn't slander if it's true. :) Anyway, check it out.

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 10:05

pS: Miki isn't a child.

I don't get how a merchant here can sell body textures without showing all. Putting on a two piece bathing suit is not the answer. It's actually ridiculas!

"However, it seems that while it's a "contratual" arrangement, the business is still being conducted on someone else's property (Renderosity), and thus it's Renderosity that sets the tone of the rules that everyone else must follow."<< I am not privy to Renderosity's brokering aggreement. However, I would venture to say that Renderosity is responsible for seeting the tone for format and site appearance, in order to showcase it's products. What you describe would clearly apply to forums and galleries, but decisions around products would generally be limited ONLY to legal conflicts, and not "taste". >>"Years ago I used to do contract bookkeeping for some lawyers. I was an independent contractor in that I set my own rules, I paid my own taxes etc. However, because of the Law Society rules regarding confidentiality, my work had to be done on the premises. So while I might have been "independent", I was still subject to the office's rules of "no smoking", "no beverages near the computers" etc."<< Guidelines are meant to protect the interests of the client. In the realm of brokerages, now please don't freak, it is the broker who is the store client, not the end customer. In the end brokerages are enstablished to service brokers first, and THEIR customers as to better satisfy the broker. Basically, you are the broker's customer, not the site's. This is true because most brokerages either don't product their own product, or can't survive solely on their own content. You are their customer, only when you buy a product solely owned by the site. The "no smoking" policy, if not a law, is a business policy. Businees policies like smoking are appropriate because smoking a cigarette isn't the nature of your work. In the case of 3D, making and selling realistic nude texture maps is for Poser brokers. Granted, compromise and common-sense is required in large brokerages where there general decision making is easier. But the host of a brokerage should always be sensitive to the needs of their brokering clients, and avoid imposing decisions on "taste" where they are innappropriate. Any business owner, landlord, etc canmake unreasonable request and policies. In that case the broker would simply decide to either relocate or stay.

PS: just a side on "independant contractor etiquette". Contractors never ever ever comment, judge, or dictate to other contractors on similar work. Basically contractors mind their own business within a brokerage and don't discuss other brokers.

whew - and here I thought R'osity was going to go an entire year without shooting themselves in the foot... No, seriously, y'all @ the RMP have managed to do it at least once a year by performing some crass act of self-disinterest by way of bone-headed policy.

I had thought that for once you may have got it right, and would've went a whole year without doing something dumb... wouldn't that have been a bold change?

But here it is, less than 24 hours to 2006, and BLAM! - y'all @ the RMP come through and re-affirm my view of this little universe.

Thanks, guys! You had me worried for a moment there.

PS: Aiko, a teen? ROTFLMAO! yeah, right...

PPS: Note to RMP: The day I actually agree with what mickmca is saying about a subject is the day you know that the subject in question probably needs revisited by SOMEBODY, and damned fast. I found my neck nearly in cramps from nodding in agreement to everything he's wrote in this thread concerning this little policy change.

PPPS: Holy shit! Did I see Anton declare Terai Yuki not a teen? ...and quietly assent to others re-asserting GIRL's adult status!? Wow. That's all I can say at the moment... Wow.

/P

Message edited on: 12/31/2005 11:05

"PPPS: Holy shit! Did I see Anton declare Terai Yuki not a teen? ...and quietly assent to others re-asserting GIRL's adult status!? Wow. That's all I can say at the moment... Wow."<< No you didn't. The figure is called Miki. As usual, you post inaccurately and with malice. Just dying to make a post in 2005 with my name in it, huh Pengy? Sorry you missed the mark again. :) In 2006, whynot do some tutorials or make a product. Trolling Poser people is just sooooo 2004.

Actually Anton, He was doing just that for a few months. However, You will find you guys are actually in agreement on this one. Oh well, time to write an Editoral on this one. This is just priceless how clueless the staff here is of the Anime Genre. It is akin to classing Apollo Max as a child just because you can turn a dial and make him one... Of course, no one is that ignorant. (Not meant as a slam on AP, the above comment is for demostrative purposes only. In this writer's opinion, this site is making a grave error in miscatagorizing all but 2 of the figure sets, but that will prove out in time.)

"However, it seems that while it's a "contratual" arrangement, the business is still being conducted on someone else's property (Renderosity), and thus it's Renderosity that sets the tone of the rules that everyone else must follow." Without the Merchants Renderosity will sell nothing! We have the Power, we are the World. "So while I might have been "independent", I was still subject to the office's rules of "no smoking", "no beverages near the computers" etc." To be "independent" doesn't means to be a "slave". Imagine my answer to this kind of impositions!! Save Miki from La Bastilla, Viva la Revolution!!!!

I had thought that for once you may have got it right, and would've went a whole year without doing something dumb... wouldn't that have been a bold change? no, Pengy.....It's been less than a year since the Renda fiasco. This year they did a double banger. Do merchants actually make THAT MUCH MORE here, after Rendo gets their 50%, than they would with just little private offsite stores? Because, I seriously wonder why anyone bothers to sell here at all. Between the percentages and the eternal crap it sure does not seem worth the heart ache. (Unless, maybe, you have enough friends to vote your renders into the 20 day after day after day where your product credits are bound to get alot of great exposure.)

wow theGIRL is a teen? hell if I had boobs that big as a teen I would have been ecstatic!

Psst! Anton - that was a question, not a statement - thus my supposed accuracy wasn't at fault. ;) You might also find that I actually agree with you on the overall issue (but please, don't let me get in the way of your penchant for going all DQ on the studio audience - it's fun to watch. :D ) Oh, and tutes? I already wrote one tute this year, but...hopefully it should suffice. ;) ...now run along and behave yourself, or I'll build a 3rd-party plugin that lets Apollo's ERC ADC joint structure work in D|S. Now, where was I? Oh, yeah... Ach! Poppi m'dear! You're absolutely right! I forgot completely about Renda! (What ever happened to the promised re-make of that, anyhoo?) My thanks for the reminder. (no, seriously - I totally spaced that one for some odd reason). You (and Nat, and all the fine folks of this thread) have yourself a wonderful New Years' Eve - let's let Rendo perform their autopodiatric target practice in peace. /P

For pete's sake! Pen and Anton...don't turn this thread into your personal vendetta ok??? :(

"now run along and behave yourself, or I'll build a 3rd-party plugin that lets Apollo's ERC ADC joint structure work in D|S."<< PS: It is ADS. I've already seen the emails Tom. This si no news or threat to me. :)

Grow up! This thread is NOT about Pen and Anton!

You are right. It isn't. And it shouldn't be. Back to topic, hopefully.

Freedom of speech that only protects the unobjectionable is neither objective nor free. Restrictions on speech or expression based on what might happen, as opposed to what did happen, is a new low in law. And is easily turned on its authors. Clearly religion falls under the category of awful things that actually do happen due to the expression thereof. The rules concerning unpopular pornography can equally be appied to images and portrayals of violence ... like the crucifixion or like the ritual cannibalism practiced in some churches. Should the Sixties repeat, we have set the precedents for the suppression of religious expression that might cause some harm. Add to that covert surveillance, unequal treatment of the equal, secret courts, etc we can look forward to some interesting time.

I have heard that "adult" sites or those with "questionable" content, are charged higher rates by credit card companies. I only heard this recently and I don't know if there is any thruth to it or to what extent. Does anyone else know of any merchant companies that have such a rate variance?

or what the criteria is for "adult" content.

Someone needs to start the equivalent to paypal that allows adult products to be bought....there is stuff I want a rotica I cannot buy because I dont have a cc and cant buy gift ones cause they dont do them in the uk so my only way of purchasing merchandise is through paypal. There is a huge market out there and will open up a whole new channel for people willing to put the workload into it...Now If I knew what the hell I was doing and had half a brain I would look into doing this...but shrug i dont so.....