I'm normally real passive about things like this but these contest results really got under my skin and for the record I could care less whether mine won or not, though I have to admit, I thought it had a chance.I also thought that there were some magnificent pieces of art on here that smoked what I put up and they didn't even get mentioned. Something about this place just isn't right! With that out of the way I am wondering what was in the judges eggnog when they judged this contest? Whatever it is, I think they should share, then maybe we'll all feel better! Fortunately, I did learn a very valuable lesson, Renderosity is great, so long as you are buying objects and looking at art, just don't enter their contests. I am truly sorry for the sour grapes approach as this normally isn't my style but this is the second time that I personally have seen this happen and from listening to other artists on here it apparently happens all the time. To the winners, you have my congratulations, though I'm not sure that all of them should have it coming. Don't get me wrong some people in the winners list deserve to be there and some who are on there don't. Sorry, but the truth is the truth and it's about time somebody said it on here. I am also going to Thank Lillian because I know she busted her tail with every aspect of this contest, I just wish that it had turned out better and you had gotten the credit you so deserve. For whatever it is worth, you have my heartfelt thanks!

JLyons, I agree with you about the results. I think it's down right wrong the way they do these things. Already a lot of great Artists won't enter contests because the fareness just isn't there. I feel bad for the ones who really had great art and didn't get mentioned or anything. Somehow that just seems like crap. I think it's really about whose butt you kiss. Not about art at all. So why the heck enter? Anyway, I guess I'm a sour grape too. Of course anyone who speaks their mind is labeled that way. To say your disappointed in the politics at renderosity is somehow a bad thing to those who just like to kiss butt. Congratulations to the winners. Maria

PS. REnderosity also ripps off the merchants. Come on 50% of the profits is rediculours. Without the merchants renderosity would be nothing. They work their tails off to bring people great products. I dearly wish that somewhere else would come along and give the merchants their due. The only reason I buy stuff from here is because I feel bad for them otherwise I'd just say the heck with it. The people are what keep me but I'm hoping someday someone will come up with something better and people will go there instead of to this place. Maria whose very disgusted with this place and its politics.

I agree with you. The contest was unfair. And as I already said, I am returning my prize (yes, I am one of the winners).

I just noticed that any religious Christmas entries were discrimanated against. There is NONE that got even a mention. I think that's a really big travisty since Christmas is actually a religous holiday and not Santa clause and presents. That's just a wonderful side effect of all the religions. Wow! That is a big bummer. So sad. I'm writing to Bill O'reily and saying even christmas contests are agianst religions now! I'm actually half kidding about the Bill O'reily bit because he is always saying that there is a war against religion in Christmas.

Okay, maybe I'm carrying on but I would have liked to have seen something other than Sana clause.

I think it's a shame.

Maria

I'm sorry but I've had a bad week and maybe I'm over focused here and taking things out on here. But I think it's too bad what they did here.

Message edited on: 12/21/2005 15:29

gosh, it is deeper than i thought, what a shame, a shame!

i am one of the winners too and i dont want this prize too

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12369&Form.ShowMessage=2512806

Merry Christmas,
Buffalo Warhol

MariaAJMD go see my animation (3rd place) and have a blessed Christmas friend - good looking out

Prufrock81 , your animation have quality to be in first place, i have the same feelings about "Watching The Stars !" from vied, i will not talk about the .wmv format problem , advantage or suposed problem, it is in the rules, it doesnt matter, the results will not be changed, as candid told, your animation is one of my favorite too, nothing against any competitor, but i dont agree the first place at all and the second place at all ( first place in animation) i agree with candid, the second place has no level to be there, is just an academic art director (that i am) opinion, i dont know the reason that in an animation contest they didnt watch to the point "the animation" they obviously doesnt see the cinematic edges too, the crazy rotating cameras, the strange plans, the script etc, in your animation i see a good camera plan, artistic concept, and the most important for an animation contest "the animation" i felt strange when i saw photos in 2d contest, well if there is a photographs category why to place photos at 2d contest?? if there is a 3d contest why to place 3d images at 2d contest? i repeat , is not against any competitor, liked your work, desagree your format but i dont think that it is the main point, other point is the justify " they judge at a subjective viewpoint" well, i studied Art and media and visual programming at the university 6 years and in 6 years all the artistic stuff where judged by technical and teoric ways, such as concept, style, photography etc such as in Hollywood or Golden Globe or any other serious award, u think that they used subjective viewpoints to choose?? i dont think that it can be diferent here, we are the people that do movies, visual concepts, composing, etc , why to think different, we can see people working in major projects in cinema or tv at cgtalk, why here we have to be too amateur?? Subjective way, give me a break! once somebody told that the judges are people that knows much, so , why this "subjective way" i will tell u again, is not against u or the other competitors, we did our job,

look at the 3rd Runner-Up... u really think that it can be in an upper place that vied? 5th runner up? think about bullets, roubery...... is it the xmas spirit 4 u?

well, it was my last post. if somebody wanna talk, contact.

ProFock81, I didn't even look at the animation. (Shame faced) LOLOL Yours was fantastic. And I really enjoyed it. I couldn't look at first place though because something about it didn't agree with my quicktime player. :( Anyways so glad that you won 3rd place and Congratulations. I'm pretty much over this and seeing that you won made my day. I don't dwell on things I had my say and that was the end of it for me. I think yours was outstanding and I'm going to look at the rest of the animation if my computer and the programs allow. I admit I only looked at the 3D. I still think if they can have a "Most Humorous" or "Best Landscape" for Christmas they could have added something for the people who celebrate the real meaning of Christmas. :) In the 3D catagory only Santa, snowmen and Christmas tree and presents won. Such a shame. :) All the artist did a fantastic job and they did what was in their hearts and their beliefs. I guess that's the future of Christmas. You take care and have a Merry Christmas. Hugs Maria

:P

=OP' ' ' '

Yes, Prufrock did a fantastic job! I think he got ripped off, looking at the top two...and I'm a sour grape about the category I entered (2D) as well so I'm disappointed in the contest altogether. I mean, if some of the winners are returning their prizes...whether they deserved the win or not...that just says a lot. I'm kindof suprised after seeing I certainly was not the only sour grape and reading that merchants have to give Renderosity 50% of their profits...that this place stays afloat and there is not a competitor that I've heard of at least (I'm fairly new...but Prufrock hasn't told me of another place yet that is at least as good). Oh well. Congrats to those who did a great job whether they won or not :P

Renderosity ROKS

I would be curious to find out if any of you would be willing and able to serve as unbiased judges in future contests. I like to always have a mix of independent judges that participate in contests. It requires a great deal of time, as each image must be reviewed. It also requires that you put your personal feelings for particular artists aside and rate the entry. In addition, it is necessary that you would be able to accept the fact that when the judging panel scores are tallied together, the final outcome may not necessarily mirror your individual scores, but are instead a reflection of a diverse judging panel. If any of you have the time coming up in February, I would love to hear from. Please send me an IM or an email. Best wishes, LillianH Renderosity Marketing Manager

That's a fantastic idea Lillin! I'd love to help but unfortunately I'm on dialup haha...I'd be about two weeks behind everybody else :P I hope this helps future contests :)

Ok, I have to be honest here. None of the people who posted here would make good judges because they can't accept the outcome did not mirror their own. To be even more honest, I followed the link of where people posted who they thought who should win. If any of those would have one I would have been sick and there would have been riots. Some of those choices were out right clear non winners. They didn't like the choices of who won here and I didn't like the choices they made. So who wins? Who's opinion should matter?

To me, judges should be of people who's own work is greatly respected by members here(not just one image the entire body of work as a whole). If a lot of people like their work, then their style is something the community likes and that makes sense of when you want judging that represents the community. So the next round of judges should be made up of those whose work is respected.

LillianH
Mind if I give my opinion on tips to make a better contest?

The first thing I would like to see is no showing of entries until the deadline is hit. I posted this a while ago but I want to go into details. When people see entries as they are posted, I sometimes see comments like "I had an idea but somebody else did it already so I need to think of a new idea." Nobody wants to be a copycat. If you don't show entries people will enter what the feel is their best work, not what they made to avoid looking like they are copying.

And my second thing is contest themes. I feel they are often so open and vague that any picture qualifies. This holiday one was so open that virtually any image would qualify. Even if there is a tiny tiny reference to the theme it is good to go. I feel that pictures should have a very tight relation to the theme. I would like judges to take off points for something that vaguely connected to the theme.

But that means you have to write rules a bit better. I see you are having a February contest. So I am guessing either love or spring based contest. What we usually see is "Spring time: Make an image that what comes to your mind when you think of spring. It can be flowers or what spring looks like on another planet or the wierdest spring ever." So basically we end up with images all that can be anything which begs the question "Why bother with a theme at all." But more often than not judges follow classic themes. So you give users free reign but judging doesn't follow that openness.

So tighten up the theme. Set a solid theme and stick with it. And one last thing, no text descriptions, or if you allow them, don't allow the judges to see them. If a picture can't stand on its own, they didn't do a good job designing the image, imho.

Well thats all, just my opinions on some rules I think will make the contest better. I'm sure many will disagee. :)

Oh, gosh, the next contest hasn't even started yet! Anyway, you may not have liked what the people chose in that thread, but I think it was a great example of how differently each of us thinks. And shows how subjective everything is. AND really it made me feel much better to view what others thought. And since we all liked most different images, I think it worked out well to help understand the judging proccess and who won. Worked for me. Anyway, it seems your pretty unhappy with the way things are judged. Why don't we see what happens before. It seems Lillian is working hard to take everything into consideration and does change things with each contest to try and make them better. I think she deserves a standing ovation for trying so hard to please us all, which is an impossible feat. So who do you think are pillars of the community with artwork that is admired? Sort of insults the majority here at rendo. You take care and have a happy New year. Maria

What you said was my point. People here were complaining on the winning images. I was complaining about their choices which goes to show every individual has different opinions whichs makes picking judges that much more important.

You seem to take offense to my saying judges should be those whose work is admired. I never said pillars of the community, but there is ratings and rankings for peoples work here and yes, some people consistantly get good reviews. We have artists of the month, does selecting them insult the majority?

A community judge must represent many. If that judge makes artwork that nobody likes, chances are that judge's choices won't represent the majority. Yet if a judge consistly gets good reviews then their work is something the masses like and has better odds that their choice will be things users like as well and people will agree with their choice.

Sure one can say "Just because I don't make good images doesn't mean I can't appreciate good work" and I agree. But I feel to represent the communities opinion(which I believe the judges do) your work must be respected by it. If you won't do that, then they should use the sponsors as judges.

Plus you seem to take comments on how to improve something as an insult to Lillian. It doesn't do any good to see flaws in rules and wait till the contests start express them. Yes lil is doing a great job, but that doesn't mean the contest can't be designed better. I would hope lil appreciates constructive input far enough in advance to actually think about them and make changes if desired.

LOLOL Gosh, you take yourself way to serious. And as for picking judges with only good reviews and by the amount of comments and rankings I think that's wrong. WHY: because there are a lot of great artists on rendo who's work is over-looked. Why I don't know but it happens all the time. Maybe they just don't comment enough on other's work? I don't know but it happens. :( Maybe I took such offense because of the tone of your message. You need to chill out man. It's only a contest. I'm sure everyone does the best they can. Yeah, maybe I bitched but now with time and hindsight and yeah that little thread you hated so much... (It came across that way.) I can see it from a different perspective now. They did their best. EVEN if I disagree with some of their choices. You take care and relax. Maria

Well many times I don't use those :) so people miss read my tone. Honestly, I am not peeved or mad or hated anything. Sorry, didn't mean for it to have a bad tone. :) Just sharing my opinions on how I think to improve the contest is all. Don't take it personal. :)

Hey, that's fine. I think you have some good ideas here. I know writing can be misunderstood sometimes. :) Perhaps people misconsture my tone? LOLOL I'm cool. Hugs Maria

Hi everyone, I just stumbled onto this thread - I hope it's not too stale! I don't know about the fairness issue - Ill let more experienced contest people hash that out. This was my first, and I was just happy to get in. If it were not for the deadline extension (computer problems on my end) a week worth of work would have been down the drain! Well, not really I learned allot and had fun in the process. What I missed about the process was community feedback. I really would like to know what Everyone here - not just the judges - thought of my entry. I think that it might be cool to add some kind of post-contest - community feedback section (such as in the gallery) where we all could post comments and talk about individual works. OR even a Post-judged - "Community favorite award" category could be added. Just a thought. Anyway - I got 1st runner-up in the Animation Category.. (Always the best man - never the groom.... ER, well once..but NEVER again!). http://www.renderosity.com/contest.ez?contest_id=605&ShowQuestion=19300 This was my first attempt at anything complex using Poser and Animation. The Main character is a proto-type figure for another project - based on Jessi, and I wanted to put her through her paces. Not bad considering almost all her face morphs mysteriously vanished halfway through the project! Got to trouble shoot that one! I like the overall look, it was what I was going for - a kind of Painterly, almost Cell feel. Almost everything that does not move is 2-D in photoshop, and alot of the lighting effects were enhanced in After-effects. The original story was cut from almost 2 min to fit the contest. That cat jumped around alot more (boy, cats are tough to animate!) and a whole family "beamed" in at the end with presents! Feedback? JP

LMAO! Wow, you jumped into hypocracy quick!... (quotes by NightVision the great :L) 1) Ok, I have to be honest here. None of the people who posted here would make good judges because they can't accept the outcome did not mirror their own. THEN RIGHT AFTER.... 2)To be even more honest, I followed the link of where people posted who they thought who should win. If any of those would have one I would have been sick and there would have been riots. -- For me, it wasnt that the results didn't look like results that I would have picked. Not at all. Everyone has differen tastes...and that is what makes art great and makes famous the phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" ... that's fantastic. It was just that the results were so...odd...that lots of people took notice. If Lil didn't take notice herself, she wouldn't have suggested the idea she did. I do agree that the theme needs to be tighter. There was a few things that I thought were questionable...and some people would make an image and explain that it was each of the past present and future based on a very loose story that doesn't really relate to the picture. The pictures NEED to speak for the themselves, not the explaination! It would also be easier for the judges to do a better job judging because you wouldn't have wildcard themes that really shouldn't be in the contest to begin with...which makes people upset when they see winners that didn't follow the rules (seen a few myself in this one even). So, good suggestion.

It is only hypocracy if I said I would make a good judge. I never said I would be a good judge. :)

Very touchy subject here I see but I have to put my 5 cents worth in. I totally agree with NightVoice about hiding the entries until the competition is closed. That is what was done with the writing section and I was very glad for that. Now I'll just leave the rest of the comments alone before I get thumped over the head with a cricket bat... lol. Well done to all who entered. Not only those who won. Hugs