First of all, thank you for all your hard work. I know that modelling takes a long time to do, and many of you offer your models for a mere pittance considering all the hours of work you have put in. I also know quite well that at least half of the poser community likes to indulge in some varied form of pin-up, nude or other type of tittillating artwork. I have no issue with these so long as I can filter them out or they are marked appropriately with a nudity flag.

But I have noticed that some modellers have decided to create women's clothing models, specifically shirts and dresses, that have the nipples sticking out. I find this a rather curious practice and I would like to make a request. Would it be possible to make the clothing without the nipples sticking out, and then simply add a nipple morph so that those of us who have no use for this would be able to use the clothing? This way, we would all be able to do the kind of art we like. I have had to refrain from buying several very nice clothing models because of this, and I believe there are other people in this community who also might be skipping certain models becasue they are inappropriate for the type of artwork they do. The more versatile a clothing model is, with regards to issues like this, the bigger your demographic could be.

And before I sign off and post this, I am not writing this for modellers who sell products like lingerie or fetish outfits, etc. That is completely different. You are making them for a specific set of people who enjoy this type of art, and it would be ridiculous for anyone to ask you to start making those items more appropriate. They are what they are, after all. Although I am not quite comfortable with pointing out anyhting specifically, to clarify things for people who read this, I will offer two examples. Two models I believe would be good candidates for "optional nipples" would be Aery Soul's Fragola outfit or Wusamah's Never Enough shirts. These are both wonderful, well done clothing models by modellers I highly respect but cannot always buy from because I don't have any interest in that type of art. But they are also versatile models which could be used for many types of art, if not for the unremovable nipples. I do not mean to step on anybodys toes by posting this (although without a doubt I probably will) but I canno think this is a rude or offensive request because I am not asking anyone to remove the nipples, just make them optional.

Saro

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 16:24

hehe, someone else who's tired of boobie shows too eh? My one wish in life is that there is such a thing as reincarnation and that all men are required to return as a woman and have to live their lives subjected to and striving to fit into this crazy ideology of "the perfect female form".

I dont know about the Never Enough clothing but Fragola does have a SmoothNipple option.

Just smooth out the nipples in post work

I'm with you Acadia.:) spiritwolf2000- thanks, its nice to know that. Aery Soul is pretty good about adding morphs. I do have the Never Enough pack, and there are no morphs like that. Most of his shirts tend to be rather "pointy". Sucks for me, because he's my favorite merchant. wolf359- Yes, that's an option, if your render allows for it. I have created images where you can only do so much postwork before it starts to become obvious. I'd rather have the clothing look as correct as possible beforehand. Plus, sometimes the textures start to look weird during postwork.

Learn how to use Poser magnets (they are easy) and morph the nipple out. It would only take 3 minutes at the most to do :)

In the clothing I've done (which is almost all dynamic, BTW) all you have to do is use the figures dials to smooth the nipple out, and voila! no nipple. I can't really see anyone who does a conforming top not including a nipple smoother; it seems pretty obvious.

there are some ways around this; some folks make clothes that have a bit of thickness to them. I tend to use BVH Swat stuff a lot because of that. Sometimes even a 'life jacket' sort of thing from Studio Maya. Armor's good too, if it fits the pic.
I do beleive some models have a way to turn down the turkey-timers, usuall with a dial. I'm not sure which ones, but it's worth looking into. Try going through the dials on a particular model to make sure.

I don't think they are modeled to have the nipple sticking out really. I have a few outfits and such that in the promos and renders used with them there is no nipplies but when loaded their is because the characters boob size has been changed and the outfit is set to basic vicky. I believe turning a few breast size dials or such in either the clothing or vicky (depending if the clothes have such morphs)should take care of that problem. Sometimes even just conforming the clothing fixes it. At least that's my makeshift unofficial way of doing it lol. Good luck.

OK, not so good with magnets yet, but I believe I have found an easier way, for those who have PhilC's WW. By using the group tool, you can choose the parts of the model you wish to change, and then use the Smooth and/or Deflate tools in Wardrobe Wizard to smooth or deflate the "pointies". So I guess at least I'll be able to fix it, even if the clothing modellers don't want to. That's something at least.

My one wish in life is that there is such a thing as reincarnation and that all men are required to return as a woman and have to live their lives subjected to and striving to fit into this crazy ideology of "the perfect female form". I'd like for them to have to come back as a woman with naturally large breasts and experience the pleasures of people talking to your chest, continual neck and upper back pain, and assumptions that because your boobs are big, your brain must be small. ;-) bonni

"My one wish in life is that there is such a thing as reincarnation and that all men are required to return as a woman and have to live their lives subjected to and striving to fit into this crazy ideology of "the perfect female form". I'd like for them to have to come back as a woman with naturally large breasts and experience the pleasures of people talking to your chest, continual neck and upper back pain, and assumptions that because your boobs are big, your brain must be small. ;-) " and if they remembered their past life, they would die of terminal nipple strain, failed wrists and starvation as they would never leave the house....

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Very well pose request Saro. I don't think it should bother anyone and it's a good point. OK, I know I'll probably get in trouble for this and possibly create a permanent enemy so let me at least preface this by saying absolutely no offense intended but I have to ask. Acadia, do you see just the teeniest contradiction between "...tired of boobie shows...," etc. and loving to dress up as Elvira, a character who God bless her, is the poster girl for boobie shows? Like I said no offense but the threads were just too close together to miss or ignore. Just an observation :-)

Hello, just since Young Soul: Fragola was mentioned I'd like to point out the shirt does include a smooth nipples option to flatten them :). Kindest Regards everyones, Siliphiel of Aery Soul

Hi As Shanim, I wasn't aware of that at the time of the post, but people did point it out in one of the other posts. Sorry about that, and thanks for including those morphs.

Many clothes have the shown nipple "thing". I just put my renders into Photoshop and use the "smudge" tool sparingly with light pressure to smooth em out. Works like a charm, takes seconds

theres nothing wrong or unnatural about nipples showing through clothing. if anything, a lack of nipple pokethrough on products such as tshirts, bikinis, thin dresses, etc would be 'unnatural'. the only time i do not see nipples these days is if the woman is wearing a pushup/padded bra with like an inch of cloth between her nipples and her outer clothing.

its more difficult to have proper nipple 'topology' (for lack of a better word) on a shirt than to just model a smooth breast. i put them there for realism, and because - IMO - they look good.

when i make a clothing item which wouldnt allow nipples to show through - like a suit jacket, pushup bra, padded dress, etc - then i will not include a nipple morph. but for clothing such as tshirts, thin dresses, bikinis, etc they will always have one since they do so in real life. if you dislike them for some reason they can be hid with a mere moment's postwork with a soft clone/healing brush type tool.

if you are complaining about, for example, a suit jacket in the marketplace that has prominent nipples poking through i agree with you that they shouldnt be there. the objection to nipples poking through a tshirt, tank top, thin dress, bikini, etc however, is a result of our uptight/repressed north american morality - the same morality that finds excessive brutal violence on prime-time television perfectly acceptable yet launches into a month-long nationwide mass conniption fit if they see a nipple-slip during the superbowl halftime.

ive encountered the same thing before when i used to work in a fashion store in a mall in my college days. we got a new set of mannequins, and their nipples showed through the t-shirts we put on them. a couple of customers actually complained, but there was this one older woman who came in 3 times and went absolutely ballistic - how they were disgusting and corrupting the minds of innocent people yadda yadda. she eventually went to the manager and freaked out and he broke down and had us file the nipples off the damned mannequins.

id like to see a woman put on a t-shirt without a bra and not have her nipples visible. they are natural parts of womens bodies that can be highly visible depending on the type of clothing they wear. this has nothing to do with "striving to fit into this crazy ideology of "the perfect female form" - every woman has them. theres nothing disgusting, immoral, unsavory, etc about them, and if the clothing i create is the type that would typically show them, theyll be there :)

cheers,
-gabriel

Quote - Acadia, do you see just the teeniest contradiction between "...tired of boobie shows...," etc. and loving to dress up as Elvira, a character who God bless her, is the poster girl for boobie shows?

No, not all. It's a once a year 5 or 6 hour event (that's if I dress up and haven't for a few years). It's not a daily ritual like you see around here in the galleries where every other image is a festival of naked butts, impossibly skinny waists and watermelon sized boobs, that even the most anorexic of women receiving all the free plastic surgery she want's could ever hope to achieve. Call my a hypocrite if you like, but I don't see the 2 being anywhere in the same league.

i still fail to see how the ever-recurring theme of 'male idealization of women' has anything to do with nipples showing through clothing. if i modeled a 400 lb woman, and she was wearing a ribbed tank top, guess what would be showing through? if anything this is a cloth physics/anatomy/censorship/morality issue.

Actually, scientists HAVE found a direct correlation between intelligence and breast size. The larger a woman's breasts, the dumber men become. smile

Perfect woman form, Big breasts... What in the name of God this has to do with the first post? This just confirms that people doesn't read before post. Saro, I vote to for Postwork. It's easiest way to deal with your disconfort regarding nipples. Good Luck!

Elizabyte:"I'd like for them to have to come back as a woman with naturally large breasts and experience the pleasures of people talking to your chest, continual neck and upper back pain, and assumptions that because your boobs are big, your brain must be small. ;-) " That is what my response was to, udhal. The original poset made her point and we were all having a conversation. Conversations have tangents. The tangent we were on was different. I think the original poster made a good point. People understood and helped her and have now moved onto other things. I assure you, I read the ENTIRE thread before making a comment. Did you read and see where the topic had MOVED to? I guess not. People talk, and in so doing, often find different topics to TALK about as well. Please don't become a topic nazi. sigh That is so last week. smile

"Call my a hypocrite if you like..." Nah, we all have our perspectives :-) Threads diverge in here all the time. Any mention of nipple, breast, genital, nudity, etc., in whatever context, merely guarantees it. Mention KFC's boneless chicken breast sandwich and whoot, it's breasts in the galleries. Might as well complain about death and taxes. And who cares since THE STEELERS BEAT THE COLTS!!

Yeah, but....they're still the Steelers.....sorry. chuckle

and the subject turns to football (or in the rest of the world, 'American football'..;)
Maybe we should just bring back these 50's 'nose cone' bras..;)

And now the subject turns to the arms race and nuclear proliferation.....oh wait....different nose cones. I wonder if Madonna ever put someone's eye out with one of her boobs?

Football.... Bah!! Let's talk about hunky male Renderosity members again :)

I really enjoyed that thread, hehe

Message edited on: 01/15/2006 20:15

Quote - if anything, a lack of nipple pokethrough on products such as tshirts, bikinis, thin dresses, etc would be 'unnatural'

I'm a female... and I work in a field that has a larger female population of workers than male.

I appreciate beauty and I tend to notice a good looking man or woman and their physical shape.

I would suggest that you go and research that a little more.. but do it discretely :) As a woman I consider myself an authority on female nipples :) I am confident when I say that unless cool temperaturs, irritation, or erm....something else, enters the picture, that most non lactating women do not have nipples poking through their clothing on a regular basis :) and if they are lactating I would hope that they had a padded nursing bra on ;) Message edited on: 01/15/2006 20:24

"id like to see a woman put on a t-shirt without a bra and not have her nipples visible. they are natural parts of womens bodies that can be highly visible depending on the type of clothing they wear. this has nothing to do with "striving to fit into this crazy ideology of "the perfect female form" - every woman has them. theres nothing disgusting, immoral, unsavory, etc about them, and if the clothing i create is the type that would typically show them, theyll be there" "i put them there for realism, and because - IMO - they look good." Blackhearted- Most women, wait...this might shock you, WEAR BRAS :) And even though the bra may not be on V3 in my renders, I still create the image as if the bra was there. That's realistic, believe it or not. Do you think, perhaps, that we women walk around without bras all the time? Most of the pinup "artwork" features women with very perky (and gravity-defying) breasts. Without some sort of support, those perfect breasts are impossible. Without bras, breasts sag and eventually stretch. Without bras, the Poser community's "perfect women" are physically impossible. Not that people really care. Look through the galleries right now, and then come back here and tell me that people do things realistically, or whether they simply do it "because it looks good" as you said. But, with bras, the nipples tend not to show...and if they do (which does occasionally happen), most women try to find a way to conceal it, becasue it is uncomfortable. Whiel there are exceptions, I believe this is true of most women. Apperently not V3 though, who is at the mercy of anyone with a computer. I pity her sometimes...

Attached Link: http://www.hour.ca/visualarts/visualarts.aspx?iIDArticle=7975

It's called silicone, real or virtual--gravity be not proud. The proportion of surgical enhancement in the galleries may be larger than in the real world but it's only a reflection of a trend-for the time being at least. I don't care for it myself in the RW. I couldn't care less what someone does with a pair of 3D breasts. That's the way things are going though, Botox, lipo, implants for your 16th birthday. Forget the granny with boobs sagging down to her knees jokes. They're gonna have to sit on granny's coffin to get the lid closed. Meanwhile, Canadian fashion maven Isa Tousignant sez 2005 was the year of the missing nipple. Does that mean they were present in 2004? I suspect it depends on the construction of the bra, the top and the woman, temperature notwithstanding. Next week, camel toes - fashion or faux pas? Same Bat time, same Bat channel.

Attached Link: http://www.advanced-art.com/Breast-Reduction.htm

Hate to burst any bubbles... but this is the nature of large boobs :)

Quote - a trend-for the time being at least. I don't care for it myself in the RW. I couldn't care less what someone does with a pair of 3D breasts. That's the way things are going though, Botox, lipo, implants for your 16th birthday

Many also opt for reduction. I know for me personally I've been wanting a nice perky pair of 34B's since I was 12 years old, and one day I'll have them too, LOL

Incidentally, it is easier to remove nipples from a clothing mesh (if they are present and you don't want them) than it is to add them if they aren't there. Reason: if the modeler models a smooth shape, there won't be enough vertices to raise a nipple with a magnet. Should you need to.

" Incidentally, it is easier to remove nipples from a clothing mesh (if they are present and you don't want them) than it is to add them if they aren't there. Reason: if the modeler models a smooth shape, there won't be enough vertices to raise a nipple with a magnet. Should you need to."

amen.

"Blackhearted-
Most women, wait...this might shock you, WEAR BRAS :) And even though the bra may not be on V3 in my renders, I still create the image as if the bra was there. That's realistic, believe it or not. Do you think, perhaps, that we women walk around without bras all the time?"

even under things such as baby tees? tank tops? youre absolutely right, that would shock me. ehh, perhaps we hang out with a different crowd then. unless you have very large breasts that require constant support, a tight shirt gives all the support necessary.

since you mentioned the bras under clothing thing though, ill bring up one of my pet peeves...
V3, and most morphs in the marketplace, do not have a breast shape that even remotely resembles breasts suppported in a bra. they range from giant silicone-injected spheres to wierd conelike protrusions, to better morphs with natural, gravity-influenced breasts - yet none look like they would in a bra.
when i create a morph such as my GND pack recently, i create the breasts as they would be naturally, unsupported. if i make clothing that doesnt require a bra and wouldnt be very suppportive then i just model it over the basic body. however if i create something that requires a bra, acts like a bra, or is a bra, then ill morph the entire chest into a proper shape - with cleavage and support. id like to see more people do this, rather than model a bra - or shudder corset - over V3's default chest and waist. clothing such as bras and corsets do not just fit over the body, they shape the body. a bra or corset modeled over V3's default body will never look right - and if someone thinks they do then they have never seen a woman in one.

"I would suggest that you go and research that a little more.. but do it discretely :) As a woman I consider myself an authority on female nipples :) I am confident when I say that unless cool temperaturs, irritation, or erm....something else, enters the picture, that most non lactating women do not have nipples poking through their clothing on a regular basis :) and if they are lactating I would hope that they had a padded nursing bra on ;)"

again, lets just agree to disagree - since you are not going to convince me otherwise. you have your opinion, and perhaps based on your experience or social environment it is absolutely correct. not so for me, however.
the 'most women wear bras' statement doesnt prove anything either - since it depends on the type of bra. rios, for example, show through non-padded bras (and the shirt on top of them) quite prominently. a thin mesh, lace or cotton bra is meant to support the breasts, not conceal the nipples. bras with thicker or padded cups do.

as a modeler if i create an item of clothing and i feel that there would realistically be nipples showing through, i will include them on the mesh. interestingly enough, the last 3 clothing items i just finished up do not have nipples showing... but thats because they are of a type that would conceal them.

cheers,
-gabriel **edited to fix some HTML errorsMessage edited on: 01/16/2006 11:53