I'm creating comics with the help of Poser 6. Currently I'm just rendering in P6 and converting the image to a grayscale, adding text and effects to it. I'd rather have the traditional handdrawn effects and outlined figures and such, so I'm looking at ART MATERIALS Vol.1 : Cartoon Shaders, but now I've noticed Manga Studio too. Does anyone know what it excatly does and how it can be of benefit for Poser users? Or is it only good for handdrawn stuff? Perhaps ART MATERIALS Vol.1 : Cartoon Shaders is a better choice, I've got no clue.....

Its going to be a while before we can be sure. The pro version seems to have a trace function to convert raster images to vector. You may need to do a lot of tracing, perhaps from the sketch render or the Art Materials. The pro version lists obj in its import formats - but how that whould be used in unclear.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1139014&Start=1&Artist=zulu9812&ByArtist=Yes

Manga Studio seems to be completely independent of Poser, and seems more like a paint program than anything else. Cartoon Shaders, on the other hand, is a collection of P6 materials that you can apply to your Poser scenes. I heartily recommend ART MATERIALS Vol.: Cartoon Shaders. It is the bee knees. And the creator is a really nice guy who'll give you help if you need it. In case you're not convinced, check out the link attached to this post. It's my latest gallery pic, done with the Cartoon Shaders pack.

not that my endorsement means much, But I heartily endorse the shaders pack. Manga Studio is a layout and design tool for 2D images. For most poser users, it won't do a darmn thing. For those who use poser to create comics, it provides them with an easier way to assemble their individual renders into effectively laid out panels for the purpose of telling the story more effectively, and adds in the ability to use vector outputs from other forms for that purpose. The object import will let you do stuff similar to inkulator (or whatever name it has now, lol), in that it will provide a sort of tracing of the outlines of objects -- great for backgrounds and sets.

Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard anything about Manga Studio until this thread. It's difficult to tell exactly how it will make creating manga any easier except for the page layout and halftone features though. Seems to be what others are saying; it's a paint program specifically set up with options that would help speed up creating anime and manga for those who can already draw it. It will be interesting to watch, and at least the basic version is pretty affordable. SnowS

IT HAS SPEECH BALLOONS oops didn't mean to shout hehe - it can add tones to artwork too and can add lines to 2d renders. love esther i will be getting the mac version (cones out in late feb)

One word of warning. Manga Studio is designed to create, well, Manga (go figure) that means no color. All of the tools, tones and what not are all in black and white or grey scale. I saw a demo at the San Diego Comic Con and the guy giving the demo told me that you could import color art as a background. I haven't gotten any confirmation of that. Personally I will be getting it, I'm just can't decide which version to get. I really wish they had a demo version.

i think we'll need the best version to convert lines to vectors as the lesser versions don't have this feature. love esther ps i think in photoshop i could colour the lines

Attached Link: Manga Studio For Poser Users!

Hi,

Poser users can render comic style characters & create backgrounds but Poser does not allow you to create a whole comic book with panels and the effects associated with the creation and publication of manga. This is what Manga Studio does - with it, You can create Manga & Comics from Start to Finish!

Manga Studio allows you to do is create manga or comic characters in a 2D plane by either importing images from Poser (and 3D OBJs in the EX version) or other apps, scanning in images or sketching in your own characters. You would then apply tones and create or import background images to get the full effect of a scene!

The advantage for a Poser user is that you can import tons of poses for any of your characters into Manga Studio a JPG's or BMP's, and should you wish, you can sketch over them or add visual pieces such as hair or clothes and create a full comic book/story board with your character.

Now the differences between Manga Studio Debut & Manga Studio EX to a Poser or Shade Owner is the following:

Debut
-import JPGs & BMPs from Poser/Shade
-export into layered PSD's
-create full scale comics
-add screen tones (like adding color) includes over 1800 tones
-add concentration and focus lines
-add special effects
-great tool to get started out with in creating manga & comics
-only $49.99

EX
-firstly, as a Poser/Shade Owner you get -$100 off the $299.99 price - so it's only $199.99
-import JPGs, BMPs, PNGs, TGAs, layered PSD's
-import 2D photos such as photo images or Poser/Shade exported images and turned them into lines & tones
-import 3D Shade files using the Shade Exporter (you can import anything cars, backgrounds, buildings, figures etc...)
-import 3D OBJ from Poser by converting PZ3 to OBJ
-create full scale comics
-add screen tones (like adding color) includes over 3000 tones
-professional tool designed for production
-preferred manga creation tool at TOKYOPOP - largest manga publisher outside of Japan

I hope this answers all your questions! Please let me know if you need more info.

Fahim Niaz
e frontier

I have a question. When you import 2d photos do they stay color or does the program convert them to grey scale?

I'll wait until they have a demo to decide.

To aeilkema: [I'm creating comics with the help of Poser 6. Currently I'm just rendering in P6 and converting the image to a grayscale, adding text and effects to it.] Have you tried just using Poser's sketch render as a base and them modifying that in PSP? I not very familiar with it but I've seen some decent work done with it. It seems like it would eliminate the conversion to grayscale. Justa Thot Tom

I would really like to see some examples of the line and tones used on a pencil sketch or even better, a rendered Poser figure. Good solid outlining is really one of the only things holding Poser renders back when it comes to making comics, since we have many ways to simulate toon shading within the 3D programs themselves. And yes, I hope a demo becomes available soon. Thanks in advance. SnowS

Hi, In response to EricJ's enquiry, yes you can keep color on images you import. And SnowSultan, that's a great comment! I'll show you what Manga Studio can do. If you'd like to send me a Poser figure that you're interested in outlining, I'll post the before and after images in this thread. Manga Studio does some amazing outlining! A demo version will be available shortly within the next couple of weeks. Fahim Niaz e frontier

Quote: A demo version will be available shortly within the next couple of weeks. Can't wait to put my hands on this one !

Fahim thanks for all of the input, I'm looking forward seeing some of the results and playing with the demo. All others.... thanks for the input too!

I'd like to see some Poser6 converted examples--since all the great work in the Gallery on the Manga page seems all hand-drawn to me. How does it handle Poser? regards

I've sent some Poser rendered images to Fahim Niaz already, as requested, so hopefully we'll see some results soon.

Even though it's not necessarily manga related... (my apologies to those who already know about it) http://www.mycomicbookcreator.com/frontpage.php This can do speech balloons, lettering, etc for ~ $20 USD. A free trial is currently offered and there is also a forum. Just my 2 cents. :)

You can hardly compare Manga Studio and Comic Book Creator (I've got a similair one like it). But let's keep this thread on Manga Studio if possible, without to many hijacks in to.....

I notice the educational discount is only available in USA and canada. Love esther

Every image on e-frontier's site is in B/W or greyscale. Many of the images, even from different artists, also have the same font type. Are the fonts limited or can the program access the system fonts? I'd probably think about getting the demo if output was in color. But B/W reminds me too much of Sin City and old 30's-40's flicks. scara

...guess you could colour the output *.jpg (or whatever format) in your favorite 2d paint app, though? ...or import the colours as flat layers and merge them with the B/W outline from inside Manga Studio? ...I'm gonna check this app out, thats for sure... - Hanz

Looks like we Poser folks will have to buy the FULL version ($199). If I read the specs correctly, the economical "debut" version does not import Poser files (OBJ)--and it does not import PSD, PNG or TIFF-- so even if one did export a poser scene into 2D- you can't maintain the Alpha layer (transparency) for layering your render and importing said layered 2d renders into Manga Studio Debut... thus making anything less than using the EX version most likely impractical. The product looks really cool for those who can "draw" freehand... So, I'd like to see an identical poser file/scene rendered be each version of Manga Studio (side-by-side) . I can provide a file if interested...

bookmark to follow an interesting software/thread. planning on buying this myself, but looking forward to a demo & examples of Poser/OBJ/Shade import & the resulting output from MangaStudio

There are "templates" available at CP now that basically look like renders that we use for tracing in Manga Studio. Um, couldn't we do this in Photoshop or PSP too? The strange thing is that the figure they use doesn't look like any other out there...might it be that new figure they mentioned a few months ago? SnowS

bookmark

Ok guys.... Fahim was kind enough to put some of my Poser 6 pictures into Manga Studio EX. I've provided color renderings 800x600 and he created traced images of them in Manga Studio. I'd like to show you some of the results. Fahim did quite a number of tests, you can choose from many conversion options with the 2DLT rendering function. You can easily adjust the setting to whatever you like with 2DLT rendering function. Converting the rendered Poser image with 2DLT into line art for use in Manga Studio takes only 7 secs at the most, but often only a few seconds. The output images came back to me at 4961x7016 sizes and the output images have been rasterized (as far as I can tell) optimizing them for printing. I've printed on my Sharp AR-M165 (a professional business 256 grayscale laser printer) and the result was very good. I'm pretty sure with some tweaking and optimizing of both Poser 6 and Manga Studio EX you can get excellent results. I'll be able to tell you all about it soon, since I'm sold already. Taking my comics to new heights pretty soon!!!

Here's another scene. color image mine, the rest (including the grayscale one) done in Manga Studio EX. Since the stuff is scaled down a bit, none of the pics shown does do full justice to the Mange Studio EX images, but you'll get the idea.

Attached Link: http://www.e-frontier.com/go/manga

Scaramouche, you can use whatever font type your OS supports in Manga Studio, the sky is the limit here. And in regards to the B&W, Manga Studio is an software application where you can import color images and you can export those color images too(from Poser or Shade or anything else), but traditionally Manga drawing has always been black and white and that's why you'll see that all our gallery images are black & white. You can definetely add screen tones to the images and those are used by manga artists like color is in photoshop. And to colorize your manga characters you can use your favorite paint program to do so. By the way, thanks Aielkema for displaying those images. Fahim

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12382&Form.ShowMessage=2557572

You all may want to check out my experience as a 2D artist using it also (As well as my experience as a purchaser). Have a look at the link. I'll be doing 3D stuff with it shortly I hope.

...okay, so it's not to be overly critical, but IMO the linedrawings displayed here look very much like slightly manipulated sketchdesign-renders...not really expert-level comicbook drawings to me...

aeilkema mentioned oliviers Art Materials...do give 'em a go, they are REALLY cool...

• Hanz *NOTE: It's not that I think my included picture here is expert-level stuff...I just think it's more "ink"-y and not so computer-like, you know *

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 11:04

Thank you for that link Teyon, it's a good one to watch. I did have the same first impression that Hanz did though, those renders look a lot like what Poser's sketch designer can do. I think we're going to have to wait for the demo to really know what Manga Studio can do for us Poser users. Thanks again, SnowS

IMHO the tracing effects don't look very good. This is dissapointing as I had some hope for this feature in terms of importing backgrounds. I'd like to see how it handles converting a cel shaded greyscale image to screen tones. I'll wait for the demo to reserve final judgement though. I've been seriously considering doing a comic project for print with Poser and Mirage. It would be nice to take some of the guess work out of preparing the final project for printing though... In this regard maybe debut will serve my purposes.

Are these images of Poser figures/scenes here done from imported objects or Poser rendered images?

From rendered images. My Manga EX download from CP is finally in, so soon I can show all of you some more results.

Here's a quick test of importing an obj into Manga Studio. I used part of one of Stonemason's sets. I didn't clean up the OBJ so you can see the plant squares littering the ground.

Thank you >^_^< Alrighty then..so it would still require work beyond just that render. That's good to know. I'm thinking of it not only from an illustrator's perspective, but as a content creator as well. Objects for use in this program would not need to be nearly as high poly for details, because details are added in, rather than rendered from. Can you also please show me how it would look with a human figure?

Here's one with Poser figures in it. The full guy is P6's James and the other one is Michael 2. I've not edited the figures in anyway, except for drawing pupils in Mike's eyes. I just exported the figures from Poser 6 as obj files and imported those into 3DLT and just played with some of the settings. You don't want to use alpha planes (like in trees and effects), dynamic hair, transmapped or stranded hair in Poser, does do not import into the 3DLT engine. I've made a mistake with exporting the final result though. I choose monochrome, so the image gets rasterized. But, for webimages it's better to choose rgb. See next picture, then you don't get the raster on your pics.

There are many settings you can play with in the 3DLT engine. Best thing is that you can always go back to it and adjust settings afterwards too. Here's James once again, but this time no hair and exported as rgb image.

James one more time, but close up. Different settings, pupils added afterwards. Next, I'll try importing a complete scene.

Ok, here are the scenes. Importing takes a while, but is still well under a minute. Once done importing and setting up the 3DLT engine as you want it to be, when you return to Manga Studio, everthing goes lightning fast again. You can easily work on your comic again, without noticing any time delays. Again I've only added the pupils to this image and the line effect to get a more dramatic image. Fyi, I had Manga Studio and Poser 6 open at the same time with the same scenes, while working on these pictures.

Here's another scene, using some different 3DLT settings. Added or changed nothing at all about this scene. Just exported it the complete scene as obj out of Poser 6 and opened the scene in Manga Studio EX. Then I changed the camera settings in Manga Studio EX to match the one in Poser 6, changed a few render settings and that's it.

Most excellent! I am looking forward to purchasing this, not only for myself, but for my daughter, who is working on her portfolio for her audition for our local Arts Academy high school. She's a budding manga artist/writer..saw this at e-f and went ..and I quote: "SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!" LOL Thank you so much for posting these :) Casey >^_^<

These are all Poser related images. If you can draw yourself you can have way more fun with it. The possibilities are endless. I've only been playing with it for a couple of hours now (and I really should go to bed, it's getting way to late), drawing some stuff by hand, adding some of my own artwork and changing that in Manga Studio and it's way to much fun. I'm going to redo a couple of my comics, Manga Studio, once I get my graphic tablet this week. Just a quick word.... Manga Debut cannot import any 3D related files, like I did, you really need Manga Studio EX for that kind of work. Also it cannot trace your 2D images for editing in Manga Studio at all, again you need EX for that. Imo Debut version isn't for serious artists at all, the best features are lacking.

That's what we're going for(EX). The vector capabilities look very nice.

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison of Manga Studio vs. Swift 3D.

Hmmm..... Manga Studio and Swift 3D are geared at a completely different market. Manga Studio is mainly for creating manga and comics for print, Swift 3D mainly for creating Flash animations. Imo a side-by-side comparison of the two would be quite pointless. Even though Manga Studio is capable of doing vector drawings, that is mainly to ensure some of the effects do not get lost during resizing, but overall Manga Studio outputs rasterized images for print, that's it's strong point, ensure the upmost quality for printing your manga & comic books.

Attached Link: http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/features/exportoptions/

"Imo a side-by-side comparison of the two would be quite pointless. Even though Manga Studio is capable of doing vector drawings, that is mainly to ensure some of the effects do not get lost during resizing, but overall Manga Studio outputs rasterized images for print,..." A comparison is indeed in order as this is the Poser Forum and what we are seeking here is not what MS can do for 2D artist but what can it do for use 3D Poser artists. Swift 3D can output to vector, raster, or video formats. This makes if every bit as capable for print media.

OK, I see. Still Manga Studio isn't geared at 3D output at all, it's solely geared 2D output. A comparison wouldn't do any justice to either of the applications, since there not aiming at the same results at all. "A comparison is indeed in order as this is the Poser Forum and what we are seeking here is not what MS can do for 2D artist but what can it do for use 3D Poser artists." That is your perception perhaps, but I wouldn't want to give each poser user a dollar that only uses Poser for 2D results..... I'd be broke pretty soon. Manga Studio EX is geared at 3D users seeking to incorporate their 3D creations in traditional 2D manga or comic projects. It doesn't pretend to do any more then that and it doesn't. That is what this thread has been started for, read first the post. If your looking for a application similair to Swift 3D then you're really looking in the wrong place, Manga Studio isn that at all.