@Riddokun:

Anyway, it's for 3ds max, it's not for poser, so i'm a bit out of league here ...

No.. They do have a Poser version too :-)

"Do you honestly think that a site will consider certain models 'teens' for store shots but not for gallery images? LOL. How naive do you have to be? I'll let you in on a not so secret, secret, it may not happen for a month or two or six, but that change is coming." I reckon it'll be September. apologies to anyone who's already said that but I couldn't read everything in this thread as my eyes are still not right after the new years eve party.

Exactly! Even if there is no addenda here and they truly have no intentions to carry this to the galleries. They are, by their own hand, creating a precedence in this list which could in-fact be used by outside individuals to show that Renderosity is allowing images of characters which they them selves have listed as being underage. Hello McFly!!!

Well I already stated my opinion that its censorship (and selective at that). They have their principles and I have mine; I therefore elect not to purchase anything here for the time being while I see where this all leads. Sorry if this would affect the merchants but you know the old adage about eggs in baskets.

Attached Link: http://www.christiananswers.net/spotlight/movies/2004/shrek2.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/spotlight/movies/2004/shrek2.html

Do yourself a favour and READ what this people have to say about SHREK.
These are the same people that decide wether Renderosity is blacklisted from publically funded computers and censorware like NetNanny.
And these are the same people Rendo wants to sell their wares to.

Do you really think they will let their precious offspring surf to this site if there is even the slightest chance that they could catch a peek of a nekkid Vicky or Mike ?

These people HATE you. Because in their worldview YOU ARE A SINNER.
Everytime you render a nekkid Vicky or even worse, a nekkid Mike, YOU SIN.

Do whatever you think you have to.

Sell here, sell somewhere else, I dont care.
You want their money ? Good, go ahead and take it.

Ill only ask that you BE AWARE what this is really all about and dont tell me after its to late you didnt know what was happening.

stahlratte

"...I cant help wondering why a movie so carefully targeted at young children includes a transvestite bartender, Pinocchio in womens underwear and Donkey as a playboy..."

"i didnt balk at the price, dont start make me saying things i didnt... if the thing worths the price stated, i wont criticize, i will just blame my purse for not being filled up enough to get it for a while, but it will end up there :)" The armour set is $70 USD which shocked alot of poser users Little dragon was just politely warning you BEFORE YOU went to the website "i asked cause i remembered someone (i think taruru from cyobitlabs... we all miss you taruru... at least you dont see how mad the world is going to) made a jinroh lookalike picture and/or armor too already.. so i just wanted to check if it was the same that you textured better, or if there were a new product based on similar look" I have the old tauraru "jin-roh armor" it was a nice freebie in its day but i assure you there is NO comparison to this new "grim" armor From Sanctumart....NO COMPARISON ;-)

One of the problems with child porn laws is that the word "children" in the law can have a specialised, rather odd, definition fot that purpose. I am led to understand that, for this purpose, both the USA and UK define "children" to mean "under-18". The UK makes possession of indecent images illegal if they look like photographs of children. In the UK, you can lawfully marry at 16, so a photograph or a married couple having sex can be child porn. The world is getting crazy. The UK definition used to set the age at 16, so child porn was, apart from anything else, pictures of criminal acts. Which made some sort of sense. The change in the age limit was slipped through in the last couple of years. The result is that some material which is legal in the US is illegal in the UK. It used to be that some material legal in the UK was illegal in the USA. It is routinely claimed here that the child porn which is the target of police action in the UK involves the abuse of pre-puberty individuals, what we'd all call children. Medically, this is paedophilia. Having sex with an adolescent is medically different. But the law, and the press, don't make the same distinctions. I don't like trusting a system which depends on law enforcement choosing not to prosecute certain acts. So I can understand why Renerosity would want to set up a list, but the execution seems flawed. There are under-age characters with Poser, which aren't mentioned. And the inclusion of Miki and EJ are, on the face of it, ridiculous.

*"Do you honestly think that a site will consider certain models 'teens' for store shots but not for gallery images? LOL. How naive do you have to be? I'll let you in on a not so secret, secret, it may not happen for a month or two or six, but that change is coming."

I reckon it'll be September.*

Lucifer is probably right. Isn't September the traditional time for the Rosity Pitchfork Party? Others have Labor Day picnics, we have flame wars... ;-)

More realistically, doesn't the US have mid-term elections in November? September would be a good time for politicians to start creating scare stories for which,if re-elected, they have the solution.

The only way to test the "truth" of the matter would be if there were another site like Renderosity but without the restrictions. Now theres a thought.

"Savonarola" Had to look that one up. I'm more of a Sebastian Castillio type myself :-) Maybe this is just 'the way we live now,' to borrow from Trollope. Maybe grown women who become children and meshes that become real are just part of the miraculous transformation of modern society. Need an Aiko texture, sure, here it is on Vicky. Hell, surely all those obese thong-sporting spectacles on the beach must have bought their clothes that way. And to think the old folks used to get way bent outa shape over a few pence on tea. "September would be a good time for politicians to start creating scare stories for which,if re-elected, they have the solution." Yeah, we're overdue for another iteration of CDA/COPA/Whatever censorbait we can come up with FTC (For the Children). The fact that one rarely if ever heard Poser mentioned in the great debates and Falwell hasn't been touting untextured renders of the P3NudeGirl as "hyper-real child pornography," probably indicates just how far off the mainstream radar it is. Just another reason why the mass market push may well be a self-inflicted severing of the carotids. The anti-NVIATWAS faction here irritates me sometimes but at least most of them (I hope) don't think Shrek is promoting the radical homosexual agenda. 'Come in folks, enjoy our nice family atmosphere and mind you don't trip over Mike's dong.'

I've been working on the virgin birth morph all day. Surprinsingly easy if you're willing to believe... "...What's bred in the bone cannot fail me to fly and Olivette's breezy so goodbye now. Goodbye." From the once banned James Joyce's "Ballad of joking Jesus"

The only way to test the "truth" of the matter would be if there were another site like Renderosity but without the restrictions. Well then, (she says, a grin and a whistle not far from her lips) come on over to odd ditty foundry and hang and toss in a shingle. innocently wanders off...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=2522739

"Bedtime stories", too. Sounds like Goldilocks is going to get more than porridge...

You know what bothers me about stuff like this? Regardless of the changes, the PTB rarely, if ever, makes an announcement when a change is made and says "We're going to make a change. Here's what we're changing, here's why we're changing it...any questions?"

In another thread one of the forum mods said the change was made to keep up with industry standards. I'd like to know what industry standards they were talking about.

What criteria was used to select the figures that were included in the "list"? Is there some significance to the fact that Anime and caricature figures were added to said list? Why is this change only affecting the marketplace and not the galleries? What is it about these figures that makes it ok to display them nude in the galleries but not in the 2nd and 3rd promo renders?

Of course I don't really expect to get any answers to these questions...although as members of this "community" and as customers of the marketplace we should be entitled to them.

Of course if we were respected by the PTB as members and customers, they would have announced the change and answered all those questions before the change was made. I'm neither for nor against the changes. I'm not asking that the PTB ask our permission to make changes. I'm just asking for a little respect. If you're going to call this place an Art Community, then start treating the members of this community with a little respect. Feel free to make whatever changes you deem necessary, but have the courage and the dignity to alert us and give us an explanation when you make them!

The changes to the nudity guidelines within the Renderosity MarketPlace are due to changing trends within the industry and it provides us with a much larger target market." actually, this is totally wrong. Industry standards generally call for low poly/low file size for animation and morphing ease. I don't see many "low poly" models used in Poserverse. Also, run over to CG talk and see how the "industry" at large feels about Poser. Since this is primarily a Poser site it is very hard to accept "industry standards" as an excuse for this latest.

Hi folks, What criteria was used to select the figures that were included in the "list"? Is there some significance to the fact that Anime and caricature figures were added to said list? Why is this change only affecting the marketplace and not the galleries? What is it about these figures that makes it ok to display them nude in the galleries but not in the 2nd and 3rd promo renders? As stated some days ago by MorriganShadow, please contact store admin if you have further queries. That's store@renderosity.com Cheers, Karen Poser Mod

Karen, I reckon store admin are chicken. General question: has anyone asked them. If so, have they had a reply that's more than just an acknowledgement? I don't want to know the details of the reply: that might be considered private info.

To equate nudity with porn is laughable and dangerous. It does not reflect a trend within the industry or the art world, but may represent an attempt by some to impose what they euphemistically call "their values" on the general public and on the artistic communities. This has been going on for years. The methods these people use resemble those used by pornographers; blackmail, extortion, threats and the illusory promise of a form of redemption. The same power patterns exploited by the pornographer to ensnare and exploit their victims. Now I know that blacklisting is an old American tradition but damn it, take a look at the harm that it has caused in the past before adopting it as a policy for the future. Learn from the past mistakes. Never allow pornography to invade this site but don't let the maudlin and hysterical fringe redefine nudity in an artistic context to mean anything like porn. That's simply outrageous. Good night and good luck Q

Hi all,

I'm very pleased to let you know that "the list" has been rethought and revised.

The merchants should have all received an email on this by now but as there has been such spirited debate wink in this forum I wanted to let all you guys know too :-)

I'll quote directly from the admins:
SERIOUS discussion revolved around the "child like" meshes, and once again, your input was very crucial to the decisions made. The ONLY child like figures that will not be allowed to be shown nude are the Mill Kids and Rosy Cheeks Lina, and any other mesh that is a known child. The Girl, Aiko3, Miki, etc... still do appear to be young to a lot of us, but after evaluating their body shapes, we feel as though they are "of age".

So... Aiko, Miki, Terai Yuki, etc are now okay for nude promos again (with a small caveat - see last section.) Anime/Toon does not automatically equal child, nor does Asian!

This means that any products put in holding due to these issues will be returned as soon as possible (as long as they meet the other criteria of course.) That process is underway as we speak.

Also the rule about 80% boob coverage has been relaxed. As long as the nipples/aureolae aren't visible, we're not going to sit there with a protractor and a calculator worrying about if the bikini needs another row of stitches ;-) Also butts will be fine in the Daz bikini or similar model, but no thongs or G-strings.

Note about the child/toon thing. If you morph a character to appear like a child toon then you would still be asked to cover them up. Using Aiko doesn't get you a "free pass" in that way. However it no longer means an automatic "child" classification.

I would like to say how pleased I am with this outcome and I am very happy with those people in this forum who have made their voices heard rationally, sensibly and logically. There are those people who think that this forum is "a bunch of hotheads" or "rabble rousers". We are people from all walks of life, many countries across the globe and wildly different political viewpoints. Yet the threads over the last few days have proved that we can discuss and debate without descending into attacks and flames, even when feelings have run high (including my own!) I am very proud to be Moderating the Poser forum right now :-)

(end of oscar acceptance speech LOL)

I hope this helps to show that Renderosity does listen to you as customers and as community members and that we are committed to providing the right environment for us all to grow stronger.

Karen :-D

I'm glad to see this outcome I'm not here for drama I just want a strong marketplace here at Renderosity. Its also good to see that Renderosity listens to its members and merchants.

"for we are fearfully and wonderfully made" Psalm 139:14 Thank you. Q

Thank you, sincerely. "...your input was very crucial to the decisions made." All the more reason to maybe solicit input prior to making these decisions? "...still do appear to be young to a lot of us, but after evaluating their body shapes, we feel as though they are "of age"." So body shape wasn't taken into account (or was seen differently) until outside input pointed out that the body shapes were plainly adult? Honestly, I'm not ungateful; just the opposite--I'm grateful after every adjustment of a bad policy. It just seems like a crazy way to do things. 1. Start with a 10 and begin removing images/products. 2. Howls of protest 3. Explain policy 4. Explanation generates more protest 5. Back off the 10 to an 8.5 in a magnanimous gesture 6. Sighs of gratitude I think I know why they do it but let's just fade to black with sighs of gratitude--once more.

Well this is a refreshing dose of pragmatism. So child stuff (as defined) is a nono, fair enough. The rest of it reminds me of the pornography cases in the UK back in the 70s when Soho store owners were in and out of court every week and the judiciary plus the great and the good scrutinised 1000s of magazines trying to determine acceptable %s of genital exposure (same thing with sex and violence in movies). In the fullness of time demonstrated to be a rather pointless exercise. Nowadays most things are OK unless they are "gratuitous" in nature ie not for artistic,informational,educational effect.

Just to note from Dodger:

"Anna and Seth, the Aeon Teens, are 18.
18 is still teen, but it's also legal age of consent to have nippular regions.

If anyone questions this, you have my word as their father and creator deity. Furthermore, if necessary, I can model their IDs and have authority to mark them as official.

Raphael and Mary, the Aeon Adolescents, are not 18. They are kids, as is Robin. However, it should be noted that Raphael, the Aeon Adolescent Boy, includes a Halfling morph as part of the package that, when applied, means he is over 60 (or roughly 25 in human years).
Mickey, the Aeon Dwarf, is short, but well over 18. He's just a midget.

Ghul, the Aeon Creep, is some thirty thousand years old.

Just wanted to clear those ages up."

Message edited on: 01/06/2006 15:07

I could not put it better.

Weeell... I'd kinda want to know what I'm getting when I buy a texture and Aiko never struck me as a kid, but hey, that's just me. Heheh... if they change the galleries rules... You know... I couldn't care less about the gallery anymore to be honest. 99.99999% of the time I don't look. Of those 0.00001% that I do look, I find more worthwhile things to look at in any gallery except the poser gallery. I don't mean to sound like a snob, but... It's very rare these days that I actually see an image in there that I think is really great. And when I do find one, I will mark it, rate it, comment it. Most times I'll miss them. Probably because any good image is there for like.. 0.35 seconds and pushed into oblivion of page 10 by the 200 pictures of not-so-greatness that are posted just after it. Shame really. In a way, I wish there were a 'Masters' Gallery. And to get in, you'd have to be invited in before you could post there. People like Toxicangel would belong in there. :) Totally off topic, I know, but lets be honest here - how many of you actually go and ever look at the gallery on a regular basis?

am i wrong or those guidelines and list were about marketplace promopicture, not gallery... ???

Yes, they were.

then i totally fail to understand the last message that was posted by silke :) ge i'm too old for such things, it seems