Dear Friend: I have seen many realistic looking images of portraits and aesthetically pleasing exotic nudes creted/rendered with Poser only. I will in time buy items from renderosity, Daz productions, and next month from e-frontier. Please tell me of the items/techniques I need to achieve beautiful/photorealistic light female perfection for portraits and nudes with E-frontiers' Poser 5. P.S. I own Victoria/Michael with head/body morphs/injections. I own 'Extreme Close-Up' and dazzling gaze etc. I have not achieved realism with Poser 5 Female/Males figures. So, Please tell me what I need for beautiful portrait/nudes PHOTO-realism. I have a small gallery if you desire its review.

That subject is worth serveral books full.

It all boils down to practice, practice, practice. (and lighting).

Give me an IM here and we'll talk if you want :) I've some examples in my gallery if you want. At least I might be able to get you started in the right direction.

geo

If you want nudes, your biggest problem is going to be 'painted on genitalia'. Most Poser females have no geometry down below, not even as a hip-swap in option like the males get. Very strange disparity in my opinion. The results are that female nudes -at best- tend to look like somemthing from the video game 'Sims' with the 'nude patch' applied. You might have wonderful detail everywhere else, but the viewer is going to on some level be aware that something important doesn't look right... Unless your pose and camera angle 100% covers the pubic region, it will stand out as un-natural. There are a few hack kits around, but they nearly all work by taking vertices from the nearby area and stretching them form genitalia - and this can often have its own unreal results. There are some models out there that are built with proper anatomy in that region, but they tend to have major flaws elsewhere and / or be highly unsupported. If nudes are not important, you can just go and get youurself a high resolution texture map - one that looks like it could be adjusted in photoshop for various tones without losing effect. You'll also want some basic morphing kits. Other than that, it comes down to tastes and you haven't said enough yet for me to know.

Quote - So, Please tell me what I need for beautiful portrait/nudes PHOTO-realism

From a woman's perspective.....

Remember, REAL women as nature made them, don't have exagerated measurements like you tend to see in very many gallery images.  The typical ratio of chest/hip to waist is 10 inches. "Barbie Dolls" are not the typical female shape.

Breasts aren't "round" and they don't have any gravity defying ability, which means that unless the breasts are really small and bearly visible, they will sag and droop according to the body's position to the ground. ie: standing, laying on her side, or her back.

ALL women have problems with cellulite. The fact you don't see it on Playboy models and actresses is because it's air brushed out.

Moles and small scars and blemishes are NOT a bad thing.  They are all part of life and most of us have "blemished" skin in some way. Only "Barbie Dolls" have perfect complexions, but then again they're plastic/rubber.

Curves are NOT a bad thing.  Not all women are bones and skin with hip and rib bones poking out.  A woman doesn't have to be twig thin to be attractive, and twig thin is anything but attractive.

My images only started to look kind of realistic when I bought high-res. photorealistic textures. That is, with the imperfections mentioned by Acadia. And as geoegress mentions, lighting is so crutial to any figure/scene (and probably one of the hardest things to get right). Female anatomy is not so important if you are happy with pubic hair - and there are some quite good characters and props available for this. There are hundreds of poses available, but getting a pose to look 100% natural is also a skill that comes with practice and patience. For a start I'd use deafult light settings, maybe move the main light a little more to the front, then play around applying some good texture maps until you are happy with your test renders.

To gain realistic skin you may want to have a look at face_off's tools here in the Marketplace, the real skin shader and the Hyperreal products work with P5, too, the rest is done for P6. And geoegress is right, the ancient secrets are practise and light (and, IMHO, camera-settings).

As for the genitalia-thing... yes, most female geometries look like Barbie-Dolls. Some well placed shadows, the right pose or some piece of cloth are possible solutions but in fact it's a pity that V3 and her sisters are not realistic in all parts because at least the user should decide what to show and what not. But well, I think this has been discussed on and on here :rolleyes:

Attached Link: Subject: Modelling real faces in Poser

Click on the above link, and you'll see my own efforts to clone an actual living breathing female in the Eve 4 version of Posette (the P4 NudeWoman).  Eve 4 is a genitally realistic female figure first developed about a decade ago, and for genital realism, no other figure developed since can hold a candle to what was originally achieved by Hellborn-Torino-Yarp-Traveler with Eve.  With good texture maps, Eve can go far to achieving the verisimiltude of a realistic woman.  Eve 4 is available for free download at the following link: http://www.purr3d.net/Eve/ With the application of Pitklad's NEAena Posette face MT's, Eve can be morphed into just about any figure immaginable.  If you'd like to discuss this further, then email me at: dph@013.net.il [](../../mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2679790&ebot_calc_page#message_2679790)

Although I dropped the P4 woman long ago (or because?) this amazes me! Yet another sample that realism is much more touching (and beautiful) than any flawless model. Thanks for sharing this!

Does Eve have completey redone joint-parameters though? I personally never liked Possette's posing - it always seemed 'off', and this seems to be a matter of JPs and such things as where the parts split - such as how in in the vicky line the breasts are a part of the collar. If you look at my gallery here (shameless plug...), you will note my first post (man does it suck... the only reason I leave it there is to show that I've improved...) was made with vicky. But I've been a member here since 1999. For me, as bad as I feel my first post is, I simply couldn't accept any of the renders I got before I managed to transition off of possette... I used one or two on places outside the art gallery, but that was it. Sometimes I suspect groups like DAZ disfavored female anatomy to discourage porn, and under a mistaken belief that 'you can't see it anyway unless you focus on it'. But then I have to wonder why the male figures got genitals, at least as far as the first count is concerned. As for the second, no matter how 'hairy' you make your figure, you cannot hide that something is missing because it does indeed have a shape to it... It would be like doing the front bumper / grill of a car model using a bump map... It is not just needed "for porn". It is needed for any type of render where the counter parts on a male figure would be needed. Yeah, I know the topic has been beaten to death and the strange policies of places like DAZ are unlikely to change... but it needs to be overdiscussed until at least some of the more 'modern needs made' figures begin to address it. By modern needs I am trying to say figures with the posability of the Millinium crowd, or better - such as a female counter to the ill fated Apollo... Modern figures, made to be highly posable and usable for just about any need, have no excuse having such a major absense in them. So, my answer to the original poser is that as long as your figures stay clothed, you can get realism pretty well using the advice so far, but, unless Eve has a completely different posing dyanmic than possette had, for nudes you simply have no viable options...

Attached Link: Subject: Another stupid question: Is there an easy way to copy a face in posette?

Here is the link to my FIRST endeavor to develope a figure, based on Eve 4 Posette.  The photo is a final comparison between my Olga, and the real actress.  I don't say it's perfect, but I find the final results pleasing to my eye.  Besides realistic genitals, Eve 4 has some other added bonuses over other various figures, including V3.  One is that with her breast in the collar group, her breast move in a natural fashion along with the movement of the collar.  V3 also achieves this naturalism, but only at the price of an extremely dense mesh.  V1 & V2 have concrete immobile breasts even though rigged the same. Another is that Traveler gave Eve 4 a unique set of eyes.  Each comes with a cornea texture that creates a natural glint/sparkle on render. Duane Moody has pointed out several of Posette's disadvantages, but many of these have been corrected with Eve.  Pitklad developed various nose wing morphs for NEAena that can be applied to Eve 4 to correct her nostral defects, along with MT's to adjust the size and placement of her eye sockets.  momodot has given me various other face MT's along with permission to distribute them freely upon request.  Eve 4 is a viable figure, and should be embraced more fully by the Poser community. David P. Hoadley 

Attached Link: Subject: Posette-3 for Momodot

> Quote - Does Eve have completey redone joint-parameters though? I personally never liked Possette's posing - it always seemed 'off', and this seems to be a matter of JPs and such things as where the parts split - such as how in in the vicky line the breasts are a part of the collar.

Arcady; not to dispute with you, but when Torino subdivided Posette, and created the original Eve way back when, with her inverted T chest, he set the pattern for Zygote's subsequent developement of Vicky.  It's Eve that inspired Vicky, not visa-versa.  The truth is, Eve has all of all of Vicky's JP rigging advantages (collar groups, buttocks groups, etc.), without the disadvantage of being genitally neuter.
As for Erotica, if one wishes to use her for such, she's certainly up to the challenge.  As for glamor, no figure could be more natural than she, except perhaps Dina, but that is a whole nother can-o-worms. 
Eve's ONLY disadvantage up to now has been clothes.  If you click on the above link, you'll see where  stahlratte developed Eve in such a way as to be able to wear V3's clothes.  However, DAZ's EULA prevents him form posting his version in Freestuff.  On the other hand, PhilC has added an Eve plugin to Wardrobe Wizard, so with a little perspiration and persistence, clothing should no longer be a problem.
My own perception of Eve is that, like fine wine, she is a figure that improves with age.
David P. Hoadley

(...)for nudes you simply have no viable options...
Although they are no masterpieces when it comes to the private parts Jessi and Miki are an alternative (okay, for P6) because they have built in genitalia.

And you're right, arcady, genitalia are needed for much more than for pornographic images. Just think of a figure sitting on a chair in a relaxed pose... you will have to dress her up with a panty to gain a realistic look. And yes, if we do not ask for it we'll never get it - maybe the "dead horse" is the reason that efrontier decided to offer figures that are fully equipped. In the end it's all business and people will buy the geometries that offer the features they like to have...

"So, my answer to the original poser is that as long as your figures stay clothed, you can get realism pretty well using the advice so far, but, unless Eve has a completely different posing dyanmic than possette had, for nudes you simply have no viable options..."

arcady, before you press this opinion, Please check the links I've already posted, especially stahlratte's.  Also, DO download Eve 4 from momcat's Purrr3d site, and give her a test drive, you just might be pleasantly surprised.
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley

It's not so much the lack of genitalia as the fact that the lower hip is wrongly shaped. One still needs figures to anatomically accurate at first inspection, and really, except when fully clothed, figures like V3 are obviously not.

One can to a certain extent correct this with a couple of well-placed magnets. I keep them saved and apply them whenever needed. The advantage of magnets is that you can then have them apply to clothing items as well, so the same magnets will fix the bikini as well as the hip.

For lights, I'd recommend the "Radiance Pro Light System" (Good lightning, easy to start with) along with the "Unimesh Realism Kit" (Adds skin imperfections, etc) complement each other wonderfully. Since it seems to have not been mentioned yet... Arduino's Site - www.arduino.net (Gentalia add-ons) I've yet to buy anything there myself, since I rarely do nude renders because clothes are just more appealing IMHO. However, this question does come up frequently at various places and this is the answer I've seen time and time again. After you click on the "My Products" button, browse through the catalog until you see the various "Magic Perfect G" items. The majority of them seem to be "figures" that are smart propped to the character they are for thus not requiring any changes to the underlying texture(s) AFAIK. If anyone has any of these products, and would like to comment that would probably be even more help to the OP.

Magic G is OK as far as it goes, but it still doesn't solve the hip shape problem. It does integrate the texture well, but unless you want something that looks like a football with a *****, you need something more.

Better, geometry-wise, was a freebie from Traveler, intended for V2, but workable with V3. But it needs a good bit of work to get the textures matching. In that respect Arduino's product is much easier to use.

But in most non-porn nude poses detailed genitalia are not needed, so this discussion may be veering off in an unnecessary direction. Two magnets are all you need.

I tried Magic G once, along with Vicky 3, before I discovered Eve.  It was terrible!  The labia and clitoris kept popping off the pelvis everytime she struck a pose.  Vicky was on one side of the pose room, and her genital were on the other.
Nothing is better integrated into the figure, or better textured than Eve 4's genitals.
DPH

Quote - The labia and clitoris kept popping off the pelvis everytime she struck a pose.

:woot: :lol: I'm suprised that would happen if it was parented, but that's good to know!

"popping off the pelvis" Hmm. That sounds like a Rap Song I need to write. Obviously it would have a dance associated with it as well.

So, I'll talk about things other than genitalia, since that seems to have been covered extensively here already (and I honestly don't do many full nudes anyway).

Things that are important in getting realistic renders:

1. Facial structure and expression:  Unless you are very far away, the face makes or breaks the image.  Everything else can be absolutely perfect but if the face is wrong, the image sucks - end of story.  Looking around the galleries I'm always amazed at the  many downright bizarre looking faces that people put into renders.  I'm not talking ugly, I'm talking malformed - eyes slanted to extreme angles, eyes bigger than your fist, lips contorted into nearly triangular configurations, lips extending inches out from the face plane, noses that are impossibly small and flat - so many problems.  I always create the facial structure myself using various morph kits I've obtained.  My best faces almost always come from working off of a photo reference or two.  Anyway, however you get your facial structure, make very sure that the face you end up with is possible for a human being to actually have (Michael Jackson excepted).   The same goes for expressions.  First of all, make sure your model has one.  Then make sure it's not breaking her face.  The millenium women have real problems going through a wide range of expressions without the geometry looking bizarre.  Jessi and Miki are much better at this.  Also make sure the eyes aren't just staring off into space - it doesn't take much, just tweak the up/down, right/left parameters on the eyballs.

2. Texture: A good texture can cover a multitude of other sins.  For women, my all time favorite texture is Sirya which you can pick up here: http://www.zs3d.com/   I've been meaning to pick up Xunah for a while (I've been holding off on buying V3 specific stuff for a while waiting to see what "new" character is introduced), but she looks stunning so I'll probably knuckle under and buy her soon.  Other Textures that I use often with good results are Annabel by A_, Sierra Sage by Morris,  and Ioana by Vali and Nicu - all available here at the market place.

3. Lighting: Honestly I've yet to see one light set that works for every situation, I don't think there is one.  I still suck at lighting, but some times I get it right for an image.  For most work I use just two lights - one infinite and one ibl.  This gives me consistantly o.k. results with minimal effort, but usually I can't achieve anything breathtaking with that.  You'll have to experiment to get the best results for you and the particular scene.

4. Material effects: Just go out an get the FaceOff realism kit for your chosen figure - it's the best purchase you can make after getting an excellent texture.  Pick up the occlusion master as well if your character is going to be wearing anything or be in a pose where it intersects itself - the extra realism in the shadows is well worth it.  Here's a thread of mine that I devoted solely to getting good eye effects in Poser 6, my settings are in there if you choose to use them - http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2460673

5. Render settings:  Be sure you've got them set to a high quality to achieve best results (I posted another thread about this last week that I'm still planning on following up on that contains settings I use that give me good results) - http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2645790

6. Hair: Obviously it depends on the style you want, but if you don't care about style it's hard to go wrong with one of Koz's free hair props/models.  They render quick too, unlike some other hair props/models.

7. Pose: Needs to be realistic, needs to not cause breakage/cutting.  Most kneeling poses don't work because of the collisions between the upper and lower leg - even joint parameters don't fix this one.  You'll need to use magnets or some other morphing agent to make them work.  Most people used canned poses (myself included), so this one is a bit easier to deal with and this comes lower on the list for me.  Schlabber not only makes great pose sets, but also has an excellent posing tutorial on his site.

After that it depends on what the rest of the image composistion is - but really if you don't get the above right the rest of your composition isn't going to mean much (assuming the figure is the main focus of the image).

Hope this helps some,

Unzipped

IMO postwork is also necessary to get photorealistic renders. One thing is, strangely enough, to make the finished render into black and white.

And remember that renders are sharp all over. There's (under normal circumstances) no depth in a render. We don't always think about it because we're used to renders looking like that. But in order to attain PHOTOrealism you will need some depth of field.

Here are two examples of my own where I think I managed quite well :o)
Photorealism 9
Photorealism 6

Posing tip: No one is perfectly symmetrical. Rarely do we stand, sit, lie, squat or maintain any other pose symmetrically either. Also, the line between the eyeball and the skin around the eyes is often a giveaway to the 3D origin of an image. Usually it sharp in an unnatural way.

As for the realism of breasts and male genitalia of out-of the box figures, it is good to realize that the fact they have no clothes on does not mean they represent nudes. They are, I think, modelled with the intention of being dressed. 

Breasts as modelled have by default a shape commendurate with being cupped in a bra. In a way, it would be inconveinient when default breasts are sagged out because they would poke trough the clothes. There are 'natural' morphs one can apply otherwise. And, of course, the 'barbie' figure is a recognized style.

The male dangly bits are in a form commensurate with comfy suspension.  For the male figures the gen-nogen option helps.

 

Quote - (...)for nudes you simply have no viable options...
Although they are no masterpieces when it comes to the private parts Jessi and Miki are an alternative (okay, for P6) because they have built in genitalia.

And you're right, arcady, genitalia are needed for much more than for pornographic images.

Nod. I have been -so- on the fence about upgrading to Poser 6. I got Poser 5 the week before Poser 6 was announced. I am afraid that it is too late to get Poser 6... that I should just wiat for Poser 7 - which will be out the week after I finally give up waiting and get Poser 6... So I don't have Jessi and even if I got Miki I don't think I could use her... But it is good to know that an option exists (even if an overpriced one) it still does exist. I almost put the money I had set aside to get academic Hex 2 into Poser 6, but then I started worrying it would be a wasted buy like what happened to me with Poser 5... (and the money's spent now)

With purpose taken pictures, you can morph any Poser figure into the model you want.

Just start with the most likely model that requires the least work. ( depending on the purpose, or the need> Will it be for a still picture? A movie? Background to be used?  Distance of the model in the scene ? Start with a plan before anything else. It is quite useless to use a ultra complicated model if the final result has to be a movie at a distance rendered at 320x240)

Then first of all, make the texture map to use on your choice of model,  then start morphing.

Don t even think about it if you do not have pupose taken pictures. It is a nightmare to get it right.

How to take the pictures?

Aways use a digital camera to avoid scanning noire. ( scan color deformations )

Camera at the best possible quality setting but no raw formats- will usually be a *.jpg image.

Take a front and a side face picture at the most optical zoom possible to reduce angle> deformations. Concentrate on having the brows level in the picture, mouth closed with no smile = straight horizontal lip-line. Compare left and right light is equal. Forget digital zoom.

Take a full front and side body shot, also at the highest optical zoom level the camera will allow. The camera should be held at abdomen level. The model should wear, euh, skintight clothing.

The closer the pose of the model is to the figure mapping that you will use the better.

When making the final textures. Work with a non compressed pic format. ( you start with the *.jpg as from the camera but resave as soon as possible into a non-compressed format). As you will save a lot, correct a lot,  and if using a comressed pic format will end up with a lot of garbage. (Every save will reduce the picture quality if you do not) Make all corrections and test on the bare model untill satisfied>

Only then, is completely satisfied with the textures you will be using, start the morphing.  To MODEL the model into your figure>

Best of luck, and lets see the results,

Tony ( done about 64 so far, and counting )

 

dphoadley: Yes I will look at Eve. My statements earlier were predicated on the notion of 'unless Eve is a complete reworking', and it looks like you are saying she is indeed just that. > Quote - It's not so much the lack of genitalia as the fact that the lower hip is wrongly shaped.

Speaking of the hip region again... The buttocks on most female figures are absolutely horrible unless she is standing up fairly straight without too much leg bend. Wandering through the gallery at random, sometimes it feels as if I can tell which posts are by people who have little experience looking at their own or other's bodies - anything showing of a rump of a female with bent legs looks so horrible that you just have to assume the artist has no shame or no understanding of what a human looks like. I myself just wouldn't be willing to let such an image go out under my name... :) (and sometimes you even see these images in marketplace promos, just making me cringe).

Quote - electronicpakrat: For lights, I'd recommend the "Radiance Pro Light System" (Good lightning, easy to start with) along with the "Unimesh Realism Kit" (Adds skin imperfections, etc) complement each other wonderfully.

Best lights set I have I got out of freestuff years ago. Perhaps as early as 2000. I have no idea though who made it... My recommendation on lights is to go to one of Bryce, Carrara, or Vue. Each of these will do more for rendering and lighting that Poser by a large margin. That said, outside of atmospherics Poser is probably catching up with the lagging Bryce... But it isnt the focus of Poser. > Quote - electronicpakrat: Since it seems to have not been mentioned yet... Arduino's Site - www.arduino.net (Gentalia add-ons)

If you mean 'magic perfect-G, this is the set I was referring to when I noted that many of them work by stretching vertices meant to be elsewhere. I find it looks odd. There is an artist in the gallery who does a fantasy series in a world of 'naked women'. Most of the art in it is well done, but everytime there's a crotch in sight of the camera, it looks unreal... The effect is that I find myself looking at an artist who I think has very good composition, morphing, and other skills, but is getting 'held back' by the limits of the chosen figures. > Quote - Phantast: But in most non-porn nude poses detailed genitalia are not needed, so this discussion may be veering off in an unnecessary direction. Two magnets are all you need.

That is a somewhat dishonest attempt to defeat the argument. You're making the presumption that that part of the body has no place being seen outside of porn. If that was a legitimate argument, the male figures would not need any genitals either. I have said already in here that I am not referring to porn, and now this statement tries to claim that I and those who might agree with me are. I am not, I will say that again. In -any- nude where the pubic region of the body can be seen, haired or not, a texture rendition of the anatomy is obvious for its jarring level of unreality. If you want a very realistic look elsewhere, you need it here as well if for not other reason than to prevent it from becoming a distraction. The present state of affairs in a default millinium figure is that if looks like you are looking at a phot of a woman, but then suddenly you notice she has what looks to be something pasted in from the 'naughty patch' of the 'Sims' game - imagine if it was her arm. If in a phot of a woman all of a suddent her arm was a just a rectangle with a jpeg texture like in a 1996-era video game. If that was done, your eye would be locked on the unreality of that arm, whereas you might not have even noticed it there beforehand. It detracts from the realism elsewhere.

Another tip; Do not let fantasy take over.

Someone wants you to build a look-alike, and then they want her to look longer, slimmer, bigger or smaller breasts etc > > > my policy, if it has to look real, take it or leave it.

WYSIWYG. ooh so . . . .

We all are as we are, and the mirror never lies.

And a camera, sorry, i'v not seen one that lied yet either.

Most morphing is to put those imperfections into our PERFECT Poser models. With the result that often the joints have to be adjusted to acomodate our mostly out of standard shape figures ( as compared to the topmodels we get offerered ito those packages as Poser.)

send some decend pic's, and I'll model them. Anyone up for the challenge?

tony.vilters@pandora.be

feel free, and give a few days. Tony.

 

"And a camera, sorry, i'v not seen one that lied yet either." As long as we're waxing philosophical I'd have to say this is not quite correct. Camera lenses are imperfect. That's one of the reasons it's often difficult to integrate 3D objects into real imagery. The 3D virtual "camera" is perfect but the real camera used to shoot the real footage isn't so they often don't quite match even when you know exactly what kind of camera and lense were used. Also a person will look different if the lens is 15mm compared to how they'd look with an 80mm lens. Maybe it's more a mistake than a lie but either way the camera isn't perfect. This is just a nit-picky observation on one statement in your post. I'm not disagreeing with your the main point of your post.

You are so right.

This is the main reason why I always ask to take the shots at the maximum possible optical zoom. To reduce the camera lens deformations.

They are stil there, but less so.

Greetings, Tony

Quote - > Quote - Phantast: But in most non-porn nude poses detailed genitalia are not needed, so this discussion may be veering off in an unnecessary direction. Two magnets are all you need.

That is a somewhat dishonest attempt to defeat the argument. You're making the presumption that that part of the body has no place being seen outside of porn. If that was a legitimate argument, the male figures would not need any genitals either. I have said already in here that I am not referring to porn, and now this statement tries to claim that I and those who might agree with me are. I am not, I will say that again. In -any- nude where the pubic region of the body can be seen, haired or not, a texture rendition of the anatomy is obvious for its jarring level of unreality. 

Good Heavens, you completely misunderstand me. When I say "detailed genitalia" I am referring to bits which even in most nude poses do not show, unless the model for some reason is sitting with her legs apart. Unlike the male, the female of the species has internal genitalia. Thus the pubic region can be seen without the genitals being really visible - unless there is a specific desire to expose them, which usually means either porn or gynecology. I quite agree with you about the jarring level of unreality of the lower hip. What I'm saying is that Magic G will not even begin to fix that. It will give you some plumbing.

To mention two other topics raised above:

Expressions: I find a common fault is over-exaggeration. Look at people around you and study the range of expressions they actually use. Much of the time the face is in repose. The face sets you see for sale in the RMP are mostly gross caricatures and are best avoided.

Photo-realism: Personally I don't want my renders to look like photos. I want them to look like what you see when you look at the world through your eyes, not through a camera lens. Thus I dislike focusing effects, lens flares and other such tricks.

Quote - Posing tip: No one is perfectly symmetrical. Rarely do we stand, sit, lie, squat or maintain any other pose symmetrically either. Also, the line between the eyeball and the skin around the eyes is often a giveaway to the 3D origin of an image. Usually it sharp in an unnatural way.

Those are two great points that bear repeating.

For asymmetry I always throw a random one or two in when I'm morphing (one mandible higher than the other, one cheek crease deeper than the other, nose tip a slightly crooked, etc.) - if you work off of photo references you don't have to worry about it since it's already there in the reference image.

I can still tell nearly 100% of the time whether an image is of a real person or a digital one by the eyes alone - the eyelids are very telling indeed.

Phantast: "What I'm saying is that Magic G will not even begin to fix that."
But Eve 4 will, Check Her Out.
DPH

Attached Link: Jammie Bond

Oh, I've been using Eve for years. But being Posette-based, she tends not to lend herself to close-ups very well. Actually I prefer Eve 3 to Eve 4. For a start, it's much easier to get clothes to conform to Eve 3. I used to use Eve 3 more than any other figure. Here's an example from 2002 (see link).

Perhaps PhilC could extend support of Wardrobe Wizard to Eve 3 and 4, that would be useful.

Attached Link: Subject: Eve ***NUDITY***

PhilC added an Eve 4 plugin to Wardrobe Wizard about a month ago; check out his site.  I think you must be referring to the Seno Eve (Posette upstairs, Eve 3 downstairs), because the major difference between Eves 3 & 4, is the texture mapping in the genital area (and the material grouping of the eyes).  With Eve 3, there is still a noticible wedge in the groin area that doesn't easily match up with whatever P4 texture you're using.  With Eve 4, this problem has been all but eliminated (for further details of this issue, see momodot's thread in link above). David P. Hoadley

I'm including a photo from my current project of cloning  clifftopler's model Marie in Eve 4.  Notice how, without being lewd, her body has a close to natural look.  Eve is not Posette, she's much , much better! David P. Hoadley PS: Unfortunately it's a .gif image, pared down to 600 x 600; because no matter to how few the pixels I pared down the original .jpg to, it still refused to upload.  I don't know why, because other and bigger images have uploaded just fine.  All I can say is, the original looked 'a helluva lot better!

Quote - PhilC added an Eve 4 plugin to Wardrobe Wizard about a month ago; check out his site. 

Did he now? I will check that out, thank you. Time for me to dig this figure out again, I think.

Quote - Phantast:
Expressions: I find a common fault is over-exaggeration. Look at people around you and study the range of expressions they actually use. Much of the time the face is in repose. The face sets you see for sale in the RMP are mostly gross caricatures and are best avoided.

Oh I -SOOOOOOOOO- Agree with you on this one... Nearly every 'expression morph set' out there is overdone at a setting of 1.0 I tend to build my own expressions by turning all sorts of different dials up to usually around .3, and rarely over .5. Of course, I will also make my own morphs with Carrara and Poser Tool Box or magnets. On this angle, yestderday I went browsing through the marketplace and the first several 'female characters' I saw all had what looked like 'stretched upper lips (made too thick and as a result a little flattened at the top), pinched noses, and a certain 'starry' look to the eyes. Very unreal. Also something I notice female artists lke to do about as often as male artists overdo the breasts. I want to post an example, but I also don't want to offend anyone particular morph-maker here... > Quote - Phantast:

Photo-realism: Personally I don't want my renders to look like photos. I want them to look like what you see when you look at the world through your eyes, not through a camera lens. Thus I dislike focusing effects, lens flares and other such tricks.

I myself do like lens flare's and other effects. They are particularly good for conveying magic, but have other uses as well. In animation, figures will look stiff and fake if not somewhat overdone, and much like that, renders without photographic like light effects tend to look a little fake, even where they are actually realer to sight. This same issue I believe is why 'technicolor' went out. It is also why in comic book art heads are typically larger than is anatomically correct. The look of realism is often only achieved by creating a little unreality.

I duly dusted off my old copy of Eve 4 and did this quick render. I would have been happy with this four years ago, but these days I'm not quite so enthused.

There are photorealistic skin textures for Posette in freestuff, just look for SandTyger, and momodot has given me some morphs to smooth out the line along the rib cage.  Other than that, I doubt that any othe figure could give you more realism.  I've got a couple of Eve 4 figures that might have better looking faces, but then they've been modeled after real people, using photograph comparison.  If you would like, I can send you them.
David P. Hoadley
P.S,: You need to shorten the buttocks and thighs on the y axis.  Posette's legs are too long in proportion to the rest of her body.  Also shorten the shins too, just a tad.  Ditto with the shoulders and forearms on the x axis.  In some casis, as with my Marie character *see link posted prior in the thread), the abdomen and chest need to be lengthened in the y axis, and the neck shortened.  See if these adjustments don't cause for a more pleasing and realistic effect.  If seen on other sites great realism achieved with much less mesh than Posette's.  It's not the number of vertices that count, it's what youdo with what you have.

Here's something else, also not too heavy on the polys. Any guesses?

My experience is limited to the P4 figures, and Aiko LE (the free version from DAZ).  I liked Aiko, until she crashed m machine, and a scene that I'd spent hours putting to gether went down the drain.
From the nature of your question, I assume it's not a P4 figure, and it doesn't look like Aiko, so I wouldn't care to hazard a guess as to something I've no real knowledge of.
Unless of course, it might possibly be Hellborn's WWG for P3.  But if so, then I can only assume that you made the texture yourself, because Hellborn's texture, the one that came with his Betty Page character, looked kinda plastic.

v3rr?

Great character, Phantast.

I think it´s V2LO.     :-)

Stahlratte

Thanks, stahlratte! However, cobaltdream got it in one. V3RR it is.

Comparing the two pictures, I think it's fairly obvious which character I'm going to use again. I think the second picture actually has a more realistic hip shape than Eve 4. Yes, it's just two magnets to create the mons veneris and suggest the labia majora. I hope this illustrates sufficiently what I was saying earlier in the thread. Applying Magic G would add nothing to this image. For most poses the plumbing shouldn't be visible. But the mons veneris has to be there.

For Vicky 3 and the other unimesh figures, I use an morph that's in freestuff here -- check the user "anbuso". Trouble is, V3 morphs don't work on V3RR, though it's a good figure to use. Anyway, that's the sort of detail level I'm comfortable about using, neither the Barbie-like plastic people nor the porn starlet. I'd agree with the general point about exaggeration. Few Poser morphs ever need to be set to 1.00 Elsenet, there's been some discussion of this sort of problem, chiefly in comics. If you want to research these things, you can probably find more "real" naked women through the Web than any previous generation of artists could ever expect to see, not limited by the sexual selection of the porn business. (I don't recommend it as an excuse when you're caught by your boss.)

I have used anbuso's morph, but it didn't seem to work for me after I moved from P5 to P6.

Not working as in not appearing, or just doesn't render the same? Since it's an INJ morph, you need to have the libraries:ABmorphs-Injections folder in your P6 runtime. That's something that caught me out a time or two when I upgraded.

There is also a morph (two actually) that comes with V3, maybe the other females, that does a good bit of the subtle stuff that people are asking for.

Quote - IMO postwork is also necessary to get photorealistic renders.

Agreed. And good digital painting can make up for a lot of flaws in a model.

Quote -
And remember that renders are sharp all over. There's (under normal circumstances) no depth in a render. We don't always think about it because we're used to renders looking like that. But in order to attain PHOTOrealism you will need some depth of field.

Also, Poser has very unpleasant jaggedy edges. Everywhere there's an edge, it's jaggedy. I go in with a small, soft smudge brush and soften the edges. It's such a subtle thing, but it makes a world of difference.

Not, by the way, that I claim my work is in any way an attempt at photorealism. I don't care about that. I care about making art. (I've got a camera for making photos, hehe).

bonni

Not working as in causing the scene to vanish and the library to lock up. I guess it's to do with running Poser 6 off the Poser 5 runtime.

The Daz-supplied morphs ("GenCrease1 and 2" ) are very poor.