Artist's fault?, Merchant's fault?...The real thing is Poser is being narrowed, and another huge fantasy fields are being killed by the fact of only hundreds and hundreds of products for V3 and the Barbie World being developed. Things and dress for males, scenes, props, transport, trees...everything is being neglected in Poser in favor of V3, nails, makeups, dresses, hairs... at least at Renderosity. For instance, I can count by hundreds the actual characters for V3, but I am still waiting for a single character for Luke that has him look like a real child instead as an adult face with a reduced body...

I am really new at Poser, but if market continues with this extremely sexist philosophy of bombing with just top model barbie things, Poser will become a tool for female fashion design and will stop being the fantasy factory it was some time ago.
If this happens I will continue using Poser on my own way, I will always find the way to create a farm, an orc or dress a tree elf or a horse on a field, NP, but it's sad to see Poser World reduced to just V3, and not only at this site... :-(. By only playing V3, we are killing the rest of characters, the rest of possibilities Poser has.

This is one of the strangest threads I ever seen here at Rendo

Quote - This is one of the strangest threads I ever seen here at Rendo

Strange?...It's just a way to tell merchants : "Enough V3!, please focus the rest of Poser too".
I don't see this so strange.

makes sense to me...but a big chuck of the merchants here go where the money is,
and no matter how many people say "Luke needs this" or "What about the babies?"or "we need more male clothing"...the most money gets spent on anything and everything for Vicky.
I,myself have stopped creating anything for her...there's enough content providers out there as it is for her,why add to it?
-3dz

The wording and grammar are strange and take a few reads to get... What I don't get are the people who feel a need to buy so-called 'characters' for a figure. Other than two or three texture maps and some morph targets, you don't need anything for the character itself. The dials in Poser are there for a reason - turn them. Take a texture map, apply a color to it and you have a new skin tone. Paste some clipart over it in Photoshop and you've got tattoos. etc... So what I just don't get are the customers who keep buying these things. I can understand buying new models - a new outfit, a new figure, a set prop, or whatever. That takes a lot of work to make. But poses, morph dial settings (really, why is it worth $5 for you to set 'AsianHead' to .732 and call it a character rather than for me to just type that value in...), and skin textures just don't add up for me. I figure the purpose of Poser is for making these very kinds of things. If you need to buy them, why not buy finished art? But to each their own I guess. Also... now that Hexagon is only $32 through May, maybe we'll see a surge of things hitting freestuff - model wise. More of the 'basic items' category of things.

I think the thread is strange. A lot of support for V3? Okay. But I open the marketplace and I can see A LOT OF PRODUCTS THAT AREN'T V3: skins/characters for other models, architecture, landscapes, lights, vehicles, whatever you want

Of course, if tomorrow DAZ releases a V4, the general movement will be a massive support to her. Why? Because, in the inner (and upper, heh) part of the male human brain, we love women, and we love the most perfect one... and merchants knows it: TITS ARE HITS (3D drawers still massively are men)

So this thread talking about well-known things in this community across the years is strange for me... 'Is Poser dead?' Yes... like a running crazy horse... (mwha)

Sorry for the wording and grammar. I don't speak english.

That's the point, I have ben for three months with Poser and I am already fed up with V3 and how merchants saturate the marketplace with fashion products for her. Where are the prop sets, where are the outfits for the males, where are the scenes, where are the weapons, the vehicles?... Most of artists only render V3, so most of merchants offer V3 products. So, this culture should change out of sexism so Poser can go out of this circle.

Luckily, as you said, Hexagon became an affordable application, so I am learning myself to create the stuff I need, as most of guys and girls who don't need just "a pretty high fashion top model V3 " will do. By offering always the same and always the same, most of merchants are killing their own marketplace (these days, the gorgeous exceptions are Oneman and Chikako).

Don't worry about the english (suele pasar bastante a menudo, jeje ). And perhaps you might take a look, use the 'search' option in the marketplace to find how many non-V3 items you have (here, at DAZ3D, at PoserPros, etc)

Good luck with Hexagon

Casette, I am not going to enter the study of male psychology nor the lacks on men feelings that lead us to understand the Universe as a pair of tits. That's everyone's problem.

But look at the first marketplace page today and tell me how many products for V3 you can see, how many products for males and how many props/scenes/sets.

This was a general request for diversity. This is sexism. If it was the contrair, I mean, only male and male and male stuff here, Renderosity would be inmediatelly called gay or chauvinist den. So, should we call Renderosity feminist and lesbian sexual entertainment den right now?...

P.D. (Encantado de estar por aquí, Casette. :biggrin:)

Oh, then your thread has the wrong title. It would be: 'Is Poser sexist?' (not dead). And I swear, you would receive A MILLION answer posts, because people don't recognize it but loves polemics about sex, violence, sex, politics, sex, nudity, sex, TOS and sex...

(y sí, puede que el mercado esté saturado por V3. Pero es lo que hay)

Quote - a big chuck of the merchants here go where the money is,
and no matter how many people say "Luke needs this" or "What about the babies?"or "we need more male clothing"...the most money gets spent on anything and everything for Vicky.
-3dz

But there is also another factor. You use the word "demand", but is this demand being created by the poser user or is the merchant that is carving the road for this "demand"?

I can't speak for everyone, but for me and those whom I've gotten interested in Poser, I've noticed that we tend to use figures that have the most variety of things available to them...and that seems to be Vicky....and Michael to an extent.

There are lots of other great figures out there, but not much in the way of free stuff for most of them, and not a huge selection of character textures, clothing etc for them in the stores either.  Some yes, but certainly no where near what there is available for V3 and M3.

If the merchants stopped and through about it, the fact that there  doesn't seem to be a market for anything other than V3 or M3 is because they themselves are creating the voids.

I know if there were more free items and store items for the old millennium baby (ie: hair, cute clothing, faces etc), I'd be buying them.  Same goes for things for David and SP3 and even Judy and Apollo Maximus.

I saw Anton pumping out all kinds of freebies trying to generate interest in Apollo, I felt so bad for him.  It's a great frigure but merchants weren't making things for him because everyone is buying V3 this and M3 that, and that again is because that's all merchants are making, and that's all customers are seeing, so that's all they can buy because there is nothing else being generated by the majority of merchants in the stores.

If the merchant started to make things for other figures they would get the sales, they just have to stop looking for "instant sales" with everything they make.  The money is in the "niche" market.  Create what others aren't and you will get a loyal following. 

I am one of the hopeless men with a fixation on the female form. I buy what pleases me and go with my gut feeling on these things... sexist, I suppose. But this is the MAIN reason I bought poser ,I new what I was getting into when I bought my first copy of poser (barbie dress-up for men).

You might try looking at the whole thing in a different light, take out all the V3/M3 products and look at the remaining products that came to be becase poser is so popular. Is the glass half full of half empty?

Not sure I understand why it is sexist for people to appreciate the female form... For males this is a natural thing. For females perhaps you could make an argument that women are being exclusively biased towards other women and against men. That would be the only viable way to call it sexist. Given that the community here is, if I recall right, just slightly predominantly female - draw your conclusions there.

Quote - Not sure I understand why it is sexist for people to appreciate the female form... For males this is a natural thing. For females perhaps you could make an argument that women are being exclusively biased towards other women and against men. That would be the only viable way to call it sexist. Given that the community here is, if I recall right, just slightly predominantly female - draw your conclusions there.

Sexism appears when that appreciation you talk about becomes obsession.

Sexism is the despise of one sex in favor of the other (and I am not talking about who I sleep with but about the rest of life). This happens here with merchants creations, for instance. Male mind is so curiously lacking of selfvalues and so absolutelly feminin-dependant this should draw a psychological study itself (in fact it has drawn many)...

Most of times we talk about sexism when women are excluded from something, but reality teachs us there are much more situations where happens the oposite, it means, men are excluded from something.

I didnt got tired of V3, but damn, i had to take a REST.......yes i got tired of her... and started exploring other figures(Aiko, Miki, Jessy, Clark, M3) and I felt more happy... And... what i have seen is that... slowly the same thing is happening to Aiko...  I love Aiko and i love her body and do clothing for her...is my hobby..  But I only create clothing for V3 because  of the fact that i love modeling clothes. I just make them available for V3 because... she is the one everyone Haves and sales... this is at the same time.HOBBY BUSINESS and...... i think there is no and.. Well, i know ya'll  get my point

And i do understand your point ..........and I agree...  But for now this is like a huuuge part time job I love to do, and i am so happy to find something that I can make money doing what passionates me.    But .................I am tired of v3, Each time i see the same thing for v3, the only thing i agree that can be continue to do is Clothing Hair and..some amazing different Texture sets...

I dont think of anything else to say...

And i agree, weirdest thread in this forum,haha

See?...always V3, and more V3 and a daily new Ton for V3...yes, she is sexy, she is a good toy, she is everything a true man can wish to play with (oh well, when I was younger a boy playing with dolls would be considered kind of a faggot...but a mature man playing with a barbie on Poser should be considered a true man...any psychologist over here?... )...but again and again and again this is too much and I insist, this kills Poser.
Now I am learning to use Hexagon 2. I will create and texture my own props, I will play with creating new morphs, and perhaps I will learn to create proper clothing and hair. Perhaps I won't, it's very time consuming, but at least I tried...to go out of V3 tiranny.

Jose, i try to cater for all figures, sp3, aiko3, v3, m3 and my partner Unicornst which i see you've purchased our pack for hiro and aiko.

I do understand what you mean though.

Hi josema8 ,well met.

I really enjoy reading your rants and bearing in mind what

tim has said in his spotlight address will like to make an effort to

come up with a proposal to solve your problem.In fact the thread

feedback to  Tim's spotlight address is motivated by what you

have posted and I concur with some of your succint observations.

Clearly to to establish a marketplace for digital products,the market

has to become more informationally efficient ie buyers and sellers

become better informed.When that happens you have greater choices.

IMHO

Really I am fed up with exhuberant V3 running nude with a sword on a temple, so I am doing my best to create, with Luke, David and Hiro all kind of male fantasy elves who will run nude (because they poor things don't have clothing, not because of a naturist strike ;-))...their task being to hunt and knock down that annoying and noisy Barbie who bounces her body overcharged with lipstick and eyeline around the kingdoms and abandoned temples...:cursing:

Diversity is good por Poser, but merchants and artists are so obsessed about the V3 easy way, they forget to explore other fields, and this is dangerous, because this narrows and finally, as I said, kills Poser and 3D market in general. And the same is meant for buildings, Props, plants, vehicles...

A fashion model V3, a tanga, an sword and a temple are not enough for creating a world, IMHO.

Hi I am jumping in on the tail end of this...(actually came to post another thread) BUT! She's sort of correct in that there are no strong Men figures at all! Most are too SOFT looking!  I want a Man who looks like a real man! Not a pretty face! I want real Animal textures that leap off the page! I want I want I want...wait thats whiningblush. But seriously, I own about 45 or so V3 models and 1 M3 and 1 David. No models just them...cause the mat paks I have seen are really not what I envision a Warrior or He-Man to resemble. And please someone kill Clark! No I am joking..but he creeps me out...looks like a child! I would buy as many cool looking Dudes as Babes....if they were out here! I buy here, and at Daz (cause you almost Have to!) But I haven't found a great selection for the Men.  Even Dani and Martin just started with a male character...and he isn't what I envision either! Someone make a MAN! It's not the muscles...it is the "Character" in the face! Like Sean Connery! Rugged...no nonsense, Sexy! Without looking like a Poofter! LOL!!!
OK Thats my opinion. Gee this was fun!
Ariana

Actually its pretty simple, V3 is a good model thats free from Daz now. yes i know so is M3. Its also very widely supported by many merchants. ITs wide support propogates people to use it more, mainly because it has such wide support, in turn this encourages more people to add more content for her.

Persoanlyl I have a lot of fun with Aiko, or with Mayadoll but thats my preferance, yes I would love to see more items availble for them, but there isnt always what i need available.

As a merchant i make basic props that are universal, they are not dependant on any paticular model, this is primarily because i wanted a niche market not to be one of the 45676 other artists choosing to support V3.

So if someone is looking to break into the market , here is an opportunity to find your niche.

Attached Link: .

Horosho! Ya Spaciba...all phoenetic..but I don't read russian as well as I used to. Actually I do speak a bit of it. Translated...OK! I Thank YOU! ....but I still could not get thro to what ever the link was.

Hi Joseman8 (all the way at the top of thread)

We are trying in our own small way to do different things for poser users
http://www.darkanvil.net/

Maybe in a month or so we can introduce our low cost alternatives to V3 for rendering artists. We don't expect to compete with V3, or V4, but we want to offer variety if we can. We enjoy what we do.

Regards

Graeme
Dark Anvil

Joseman8...

If you want original stuff -try here ...

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=340040

and here...

http://www.vanishingpoint.biz/

We're not adverse to helping you dent your credit card :)

Hi, Dark_Anvil. As a fantasy renderer (or renderer apprentice...) I love your products. I purchased the Kroluk tavern and stables and this is such a high quality item I can't place my errand characters in other than having a beer on Kroluk!. ;-)

I am really sick with V3, and really sick of opening Renderosity every morning just to see how many new morphs, characters and pantyhose models for V3 see light. I work mainly with Luke and sometimes with Hiro or even David. They give the perfect "next door" fantasy character, without being a big boobed one nor a massive macho-man. I wish more people discovered these characters potential and began droping that boring V3 in favor of other fields. Like you, who focus on creating wonderful environments to house our fantasies.

An alternative to V3 only?...C'mon!!!, let's give an alternative for Luke or David, pleeeeeeeeease!!!. Variety is this called, and the need is in the male side, not in the female.

Quote - Hi Joseman8 (all the way at the top of thread)

We are trying in our own small way to do different things for poser users
http://www.darkanvil.net/

Maybe in a month or so we can introduce our low cost alternatives to V3 for rendering artists. We don't expect to compete with V3, or V4, but we want to offer variety if we can. We enjoy what we do.

Regards

Graeme
Dark Anvil

I, too, agree! Again!
Ariana 

I am...I am almost crying in emotion...
Went this morning to DAZ and found...

http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=4444

At last!!!!!....at last somebody did something for males, faery and fantasy-like. It's not the character, but the clothing and textures. It was Moyra and Laurie S who did the gorgeous textures, and it was Royloo, of course, my hero Royloo, who did the clothing objects. There is light beyond the tunnel!!!!!!

Only in DAZ one can find from time to time such interesting things for males and such interesting vehicles, houses, environments...and using Platinun Club affordable prices!!!!. At last I can dress my little halfling with something that's not an "unboobbed" V3 shirt or a "too big female loincloth, this shit doesn't fit, and doesn't even have bulge!!!"  !!!! ;-)

I wish more merchants began looking at the males and creating hairs, textured characters, fantasy clothing for them!!!!

BRAVO, ROYLOO!!!!!!
and BRAVO again, Dark_Anvil for your houses that delight us so much pushing our imagination and creativity beyond any known boundary!. :-D

YOU keep Poser alive and very alive

"Only in DAZ one can find from time to time such interesting things for males and such interesting vehicles".

Content paradise, netherworks, sanctum arts, vanshingpoint, possette forever, rosity etc etc musta dissapeared then :)

A lot of great artists spend a lot and effort making good affordable products, and for various reasons they choose not to sell at Daz.  

You should visit somewhere like mystic nights and look at the list of stuff avaliable other stores.

There were a thread at cgforums saying that poser can´t produce art, In some point they do are right, we are stuck on pretty this and that for V3 and it needs to be changed, looking at what ppl offers can be quite boring, seen one seen them all...  Time is changing i believe, atm moment V3 is a money maker BUT when product is excellent for M3 or other guys it sells well too. Also nowadays when there is so many vendors here you have to make a difference to be seen.

Mia

Hey, thanks for the great compliments of our buildings.

We are working on many new designs for you all to enjoy. These will come in the Autumn after the first figures are out. There is not a human-form male in the first releases, but we'll certainly be adding those, and not gay-hunks either.

There will be a theme running through it which will become clear on release. Each would be a self-contined figure/character, but new clothes/morphs could easily be made by 3rd parties to make further use of the original. We just find it easier to model and rig from scratch rather than adapt somebody elses creation.

It will be tough I'm sure, getting over the V3 dominance, but we feel strongly that variety is the key to a healthy 3d market.

Graeme

Mrsparky, I don't know the reason artists have for not wanting to sell at DAZ, but the fact is DAZ is the only site that is balanced: perhaps they develop less products a month than Renderosity, but they are quite careful to develop the same amount for males and for females, and they don't forget Luke nor David nor Hiro just for not being "V3 mass media" items.

I buy at Renderosity because after the annoying bunch of "for V3 this" and "for V3 that", exotic and rare interesting things can be found from time to time, but I don't forget to have a look to DAZ or Poserworld.

If by balance you mean stuff for the less popular characters then Poserworld easily equals daz. Indeed I'd say it easily outways daz because the stuff there is always more original.

What will sell is a major consideration, obviously. I have no interest at all in making characters, textures or clothes for Victoria. What I am interested in, among other things, is real-world exteriors: modelling houses, shops, buildings from the real environment. I've started to experiment with product and price, but what I really don't know is whether anyone will buy this stuff at all, and what they might use it for.

IMP.

Quote - Mrsparky, I don't know the reason artists have for not wanting to sell at DAZ, but the fact is DAZ is the only site that is balanced: perhaps they develop less products a month than Renderosity, but they are quite careful to develop the same amount for males and for females, and they don't forget Luke nor David nor Hiro just for not being "V3 mass media" items.

I buy at Renderosity because after the annoying bunch of "for V3 this" and "for V3 that", exotic and rare interesting things can be found from time to time, but I don't forget to have a look to DAZ or Poserworld.

Actually, I find DAZ to be just as biased as any of the sites - there's still far more for V3 than for M3, by a very wide margin, and what's available for M3 isn't very balanced as far as clothing and props for the 'real world.' I'm not interested in barbarian heroes or fantasy adventurers, frankly.

And I'm even less interested in manga and anime; more so than even V3, now what I seem to see most of all is clothing for Aiko, Terai Yuki and Miki. All I can think of is the song "I'm Turning Japanese!" :cursing: - I have no interest in making cartoons or Tokyo Pop.

Sure, I'd like to see more balance, but the majority of merchants probably want to make money, so they make what sells. We. the customers, define the market. So if we want more for M3, more props and scenes, more variety, we need to start buying them and using them.

Until then, Vickie rulez - literally.  :blink:

"Other than two or three texture maps and some morph targets, you don't need anything for the character itself. The dials in Poser are there for a reason - turn them.

Take a texture map, apply a color to it and you have a new skin tone. Paste some clipart over it in Photoshop and you've got tattoos. etc..." - and with this the user has spent over 8 hours for a low level character , 20-24 hours for a medium quality character and over 32 hour for a high quality character.That's way people purchase "so called" characters.

Just to enlighten you a little...

This can be right, Black_Star, but what if there aren't these "two or three texture maps" nor these "morph targets", as for instance happens with Luke?...

I agree with you. I created 20 different characters using Luke and David and despite using many many morphs from many many sources, the textures I used were three, but these weren't Luke specific textures except the gorgeous

And, unfortunatelly, one can't create or adapt clothing or boots or complements or a pair of boots just turning dials...

That bitch V3 has everything, the rest of characters have almost nothing. And merchants go and go and go feeding that Barbie market. :-(. I feel so PROUD never using V3 for anything, never buying anything for V3, going out of the mass this means almost a mystical experience, a true ray of light on creativity and survivor. ;-)...LOL!!!!...dressing Luke with something, putting a fitting hair on him, searching and seraching and searching what the hell of V3 or M3 you can adapt and twist to fit Luke or Hiro looks like a REAL Poser experience, not fitting V3 with his last fashion top according to breast size and fullstop.
The man who molds a farm or a stable or a grocery shop or a new horse or a motorbike or a pair of modern sport shoes or a real hair or texture for Luke from scratch, that's an artist!, not the one who created the last makeup or the last fashion top for V3, IMHO!!!

Well, my two cents here...

I'm a guy. And I'm a merchant here. Granted, at the moment I only have one character set in the MP. I envolve myself in a lot of projects - in and out of poser - and with other daily life dramatics, I wind up getting spread a bit too thin at times. Which is why I haven't released anything else in the last year. However, the character set I currently have in the MP is for M3. All the poser-related projects I have in the works at the moment are all designed specifically for the male characters of poser. Currently I'm working on finishing a complete conforming outfit for M3. Hopefully it will be ready for the store in the next week, or two at the most. (the hardest parts are done now). I'm also planning on making the outfit available for use on at least a couple of the other male figures. As well, I'm planning on retouching my current character set, possibly adding more to the package in terms of clothing, accessories, etc, and re-releasing him. Those that have bought him up to the point of his re-release will get the updated package free.

I'm one of the few merchants around (it seems), that prefers to work with the male characters and most of what I plan on creating will be for them. I have a full-time job that pays quite well and still allows me plenty of time to play with and create for poser, so I'm not looking to make a living off of this just yet. That'd be nice of course, but for me it's not a requirement at the moment.

There is, finally, a more growing demand for new content for the male figures. Be patient, and within the next few months to a year or so, you'll see the content for them growing quite dramatically. Keep in mind it takes a lot of time and patience to create quality clothing for any figure. The fact that V3, M3, Aiko and SP3 are all free figures naturally makes them the most likely to have the most abundant accessories.

In the meantime, if anyone has any specific items they'd like to see created for a specific MALE figure, feel free to send me a PM and tell me about it. If I think it's interesting and worth my time, maybe we can work something out.

~E.D.