• images are the property of their respective owners and used for illustrative purposes only.

Good point great visual aid for those in need of educating! ;)

I agree Gabe. Anorexia is nothing to joke about. It's deadly and serious.

My first hubbie's sister had the problem. Picture a woman of 5'8" weighing 85 pounds and thinking she was still fat. Thankfully, she turned things around but only after some scary health problems surfaced.

She looked very much like the girl in the bottom right photo in the black 2-piece and boots. Very scary disease.

Those images under "Anorexic" are the extreme.

Definition of Anorexia:
A psychophysiological disorder usually occurring in young women that is characterized by an abnormal fear of becoming obese, a distorted self-image, a persistent unwillingness to eat, and severe weight loss. It is often accompanied by self-induced vomiting, excessive exercise, malnutrition, amenorrhea, and other physiological changes.

I just want to point out that it's possible to be that without looking like the last images.  From a medical standpoint, the second to last image would also be considered "anorexic" because the girl is far below a healthy body weight.  The third to last image is borderline because she's very thin.

Attached Link: http://www.hotshotdigital.com/WellAlwaysRemember.2/KarenCarpenter.html

When you're thin to the point of having amenorrhea and other physiological changes (hormone imbalances, heart palpitations, loss of body hair, etc etc) it's pretty serious and those anorexic pictures aren't all that far off.

Lindsay and Nicole in the "skinny" pictures are very thin, but at least they have meat on their bones. As thin as they are, I wouldn't call them anorexic at all. (Though Nicole is starting too look way too thin for me to feel comfortable about).

Agreed - good post.

Attached Link: Some info on Anorexia

Its the rapid and dramatic changes in Ms Lohan and Ms Ritchie that ring all sorts of alarm bells.:ohmy:

Anorexia is not a "look," although that is how it is being used when the term refers to a mesh. I would agree, from a layman's perspective, that anorexics look at if the body is consuming its own meat. That is the point at which I find female thinness disturbing (as opposed to merely uninteresting). This "self-cannibalism" is actually happening, and it's the reason that true anorexics come to look like concentration camp or famine victims.

Re: "uninteresting": Percent body fat is a gender signal, and not merely a cultural one. We are all male and female from the moment of conception,  but one of the cues that a woman is "mostly female" is  her softening layer of subcutaneous fat. This  is  what makes some female body builders look like buff dishes rather than men with  mammaries. And, of course, it doesn't lend itself to meshes; hence the great market for skin shaders.
M

Quote - Its the rapid and dramatic changes in Ms Lohan and Ms Ritchie that ring all sorts of alarm bells.:ohmy:

i just used them as examples, i scoured google for some quick examples of body types.. ie: dont evaluate their history, just how they look at the moment  :) 
someone can easily be that thin and not be anorexic. just as someone can look like the voluptuous examples and be anorexic -- but they wont look like that for long.

anorexia is not a 'look', but many people bandy the word about based on the look of 3D characters (since thats all you have to evaluate them on -- they have no 'history', 'habits' or 'personality'). ive seen many comments in the galleries and forums calling something 'way too skinny', 'anorexic', etc.
i have not seen a single morph made for poser that i would call anorexic (except perhaps the V3 'emaciated' morph that noone uses). yet when i released my irina morph a clique of people trolled my gallery and told me in IMs that i urgently needed to change this disgustingly anorexic morph. if someone thinks irina is anorexic they have problems -- she would be somewhere between the toned and muscular examples above.

there are also many people saying 'where are the average morphs?'. 'i want an average woman morph thats a size 14', etc. 'why do all of these morphs look like movie stars? i want a more plain looking one'.

theres nothing wrong with that, but i will explain why i, personally, havent made any yet:
poser and 3D - to the majority of people - is a hobby, for creating fantasy images.
classic fantasy art, pin-up, sci-fi, glamour, etc.
would you go into a poster shop, for example, and complain that all of the people in the posters look like salma hayek, vin diesel, kelly brook, etc. that they should stock an equal number of roseanne barr and john candy posters?

like it or not, it is an indisputable fact that at this time a morph that looks like jessica alba will sell better than one of kirsty allie. so you can hardly fault poster shops for stocking jessica alba posters, magazines for putting her on their covers, or merchants for creating characters that look like her.
its perfectly fine to ask character creators to make different body styles, but realise that if its not already in the MP by now then you are probably asking for a niche item. most merchants are trying to reach the largest possible market with their products and therefore you cannot blame them for not making what you want.

newer merchants who are working on getting established, however, might stop to consider that they may do better creating a niche item that reaches an untapped 10% of the market as opposed to adding yet another caucasian V3 to the thousands already available.

cheers,
-gabriel

the only complaint I have is.. your top pictures are actually Normal women.. Voluputous are bigger ladies ;)

just thought of another example...
look at boris vallejo. both him and his wife are into bodybuilding, he hangs out with bodybuilders, and its glaringly obvious that he prefers women of (mainly) the muscular type.

you wouldnt phone him up and rant to him about how it upsets you that the women in his paintings are disgustingly overmuscled, and that he should paint softer types.
just leave the guy alone and let him make what makes him happy, and dont buy his prints if you dont like them.  if there isnt enough interest in his work, then either he will change his style to a more marketable one or get another job.

so to clarify, i have absolutely no problem with 'requests' or polite persuasion to make something.
but i am fed up, as i am sure many other merchants are, of being ranted at, badgered and told that my morphs are anorexic or too skinny because they dont fit someone else's ideal.

I'm sorry.. I came here for eductation in female body types.. I did;nt know this was a rant. I'll just leave...

Quote - the only complaint I have is.. your top pictures are actually Normal women.. Voluputous are bigger ladies ;)

wouldnt that be 'full figured'? :)
as much as i cant stand her as a human being, i can think of no other word to describe anna nicole smith than 'voluptuous'. IMO theres no way on earth she is 'average' or 'normal'. when i was google searching for examples of voluptuous, she was the first thought that popped into mind.

there are so many terms covering the weight spectrum these days though, i could be confused.
voluptuous, full figured, plus-sized, BBW, the list goes on...
on a side note, calling someone 'overweight' isnt politically correct anymore...
apparently though, calling anyone under a size 8 'skinny' and under size 5 'anorexic' is perfectly fine. times like this, i thank jebus i am not a woman. youre damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

Quote - I'm sorry.. I came here for eductation in female body types.. I did;nt know this was a rant. I'll just leave...

lol.. touchy :biggrin:
i hadnt even seen your post when i was typing that reply -- "i just thought of another example".
noone (aside from myself perhaps) is ranting here, and this is actually a civil thread. i am referring to the countless other threads, remarks, IMs, gallery pic protests, etc over the years.

my response to your post is the next one (one above this) :)

Sorry, I think your examples of Skinny are indeed anorexic.  I was a skinny skinny girl, 6',  115 lbs with doctors always giving me shakes and such to put on weight.  I had a healty appetite and ate "vigorously" yet even with their concern and the protein shakes I was never that "skinny".  I was more your "thin" example and if I'd been "skinny" back then I wouldn't have had any modelling contracts - angular bones were not cionsidered attractive back then and they are not a sign of healthy now.

My nieces both suffered eating disorders, Twins - one was bulimic the other anorexic they never got to the point of the bottom images but they certainly got to the "skinny" section and they were  thin to start with. 

Your examples of "skinny" have heads bigger than their bodies - that's anorexic it just hasn't gotten as extreme as it can.  Just because one still has "meat on their bones" doesn't mean they aren't anorexic, it takes a while for the body to eat itself like the bottom pictures.

Yes a woman can be a small  size - Ashley Judd is what a size 6? and looks healthy.  It's all about the angles and the bone protusion.

As for normal - what is that? Your Voluptous examples - and I'm currently built like the brunette -( all those protein shakes LOL) was the ideal 50- 60 years ago and I think it's pretty norm now. 

As for Anna Nicole she goes back and forth between voluptous and full figured. 

Musclebound is freaky - you lose all your breast tissue when you get that big, I'd personally rather keep my curves than have fake ones added in. heh

Attached Link: Nicole losing weight

Personally, I think she should have stopped in December 2004. The difference over the next year is not an improvement.

skinny is in there by no means as an 'ideal'...
calling someone skinny is insulting. just like calling someone 'overweight' is to some.
skinny implies unhealthy. IMO thin implies the lowest end of the healthy weight spectrum and isnt an insult... at least in my experience. if i said to a woman 'my god, you are so skinny' - i dont think shed take it as a compliment, whereas 'wow, you are very thin' would probably be regarded as one, or at least much less likely to be taken as an insult.
but being skinny doesnt necessarily mean you are anorexic. i know many people who are thin as rakes and they arent anorexic at all. hell, when i was in highschool i was 6'1" and 140 lbs.. although i ate like a locust and swam competitively - i wasnt unhealthy or anorexic, just has a very fast metabolism. i was consistently eating over 3800-4000 calories a day, which was almost double what i needed to maintain a 'normal' weight of 175-180 lbs, yet i wouldnt gain an ounce. i was just as insulted when someone called me 'skinny' as someone who is obese would be if they were called 'fat' -- yet now even 'overweight' is politically incorrect, yet people see no problem with calling people skinny... not to mention that ive seen many people call anyone under a size 8 'skinny' and under a size 5-6 'anorexic'.
thankfully my metabolism has slowed down in my late 20s so i dont have to eat 6 meals a day anymore.

and yeah, while i find the muscular women in the examples above quite attractive, the musclebound ones repulse me (no offense to anyone who looks like that, im sure its a huge commitment). i guess it just goes to show that you can definitely take things too far -- and that goes for trying to stay unreasonably thin too.

Well, all arguing aside, I think the effort to codify body types is a good thing. Each person is going to have an opinion on exactly where the line is drawn between skinny and anorexic, but I notice that not many are arguing to include the thin catagory under the anorexic label, so I think we have a start in the right direction.

mike

Quote - I found this image of Nicole Ritchie that shows her weight loss over the months.

Personally, I think she should have stopped in December 2004. The difference over the next year is not an improvement.

honestly, i prefer her in the first picture.
although the dec 2004 pic is more of a 'societal ideal', the first weight 'suits' her much better. as she loses more weight her head gets bigger and bigger... her eyes start to bug and look huge. she looks like an alien now, and is definitely at an unhealthy and unattractive weight.
i was never a nicole ritchie fan -- i passionately loathe both her and paris hilton -- but look at how much prettier her face looks in the first image.
shudder i cant believe i just said that.

I'm more in tune with the second one ... she is too thin for my liking in the third, but only gets worse in the last two.

Truthfully, in the third one she looks an awful lot like Paris Hilton, who has an entirely different body structure than her and is naturally very thin.

You can't just make the generic judgement.  You have to take the individual into account.

For instance, consider Amy Acker (Fred on "Angel").  She's about the same height as Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia).  Acker, you can tell, is naturally thin.  But if Carpenter was down to that same weight, you'd be justified in wondering if she had a problem.

give me nicole #1 anyday. My wife is more like the top group of women...

Blackhearted,
If all the complaints, negative feedback, bitching, moaning...whatever - irritates you why not just ignore it rather than always get into an even more frustrating ordeal like trying to convince everyone that you're right, no matter what anyone thinks?
For as long as you've been around I would think you'd have noticed by now that much of the time arguing around here is pretty much pointless, and it's pretty rare that anything gets resolved to the satisfaction of he who wishes to make some kind of point.

Great work, Blackhearted!

I'm myself the thin/ skinny type, though i eat like a horse and don't exercise, I drive a car and don't do long walks... I'm 1.7 m, 53 kilos - that's about  5.58" and 117 lbs to all  non-European out there.

I'm sick and tired of all the people asking me if I'm anorectic or bullimic or God-knows-what. They all shut up seeing me eating a box of ice-cream and NOT vomiting afterwards.

One can be a normal, quite healthy female non-model with the slim figure.

Another reason why there are no full-figured characters at thye Mp is that there's no clothing for them available and virtually no support.

I need to point out for non-Americans that English dress sizes are about 2-4 sizes smaller than their American counterparts. Hence some references to dress sizes may sound confusing.

I'd never heard of Nicole Ritchie until a couple of weeks ago when I saw her on a programme about "The too-skinny celebs who are dieting themselves to death" or somesuch. (I don't normally watch crap like that but I was ill...)

Ironically, in spite of the current trend of world hunger, the best place to see healthy, "normal" bodies is those once-controversial National Geographics. Universal obesity and self-imposed starvation are among the many wonders of civilization. Americans have been snatching food from the mouths of starving Third World children for generations. In the real world, where those children live, getting fat is a luxury that only is "rewarded" if you have status. And nobody but a lunatic would choose to be skinny for aesthetic/vanity reasons.

Our weight psychosis is caused by the double bind that millions of years of culture and contemporary values represent. On the one hand, prosperity means obesity, so we eat like pigs to show that we are the leaders of the economic world. On the other, trimness means healthiness and self-esteem (they don't in the real world), so we puke up the hummingbird breasts and mouse livers in saffron.  Among the wealthy worthless, like Paris Hilton, the behavior at least has the value of being an evolutionary strategy. For the rest of us, it's just another sad self-imposed cultural pollution.

M

i have found that when a pretty lady walks past me, i can lose about 2 stone, just by breathing in, and thus she remains unawares of my "world cup England supporting beer belly"

mikej -- despite what you may think, i dont see anyone 'arguing' here... more of an interesting yet polite debate.

mickmca -- thats pretty deep :)
i disagree on the point that "trimness means healthiness and self-esteem (they don't in the real world)".
but the root of that disagreement is centred on exactly what you mean by 'trimness'. change that to 'being dangerously underweight' or something and i agree with much of what you said.

Quote - I need to point out for non-Americans that English dress sizes are about 2-4 sizes smaller than their American counterparts. Hence some references to dress sizes may sound confusing.

erm.. so whats a size 0 in britain? a size -3? :)

i have found that when a pretty lady walks past me, i can lose about 2 stone, just by breathing in, and thus she remains unawares of my "world cup England supporting beer belly"

ROFLMAO!

This is a very interesting Post. When I was young I had a body like Iria. (Ballet Dancer) I used to get so pissed at my big hooters. They just don't work doing Swan Lake. I would bind them , so they wouldn't stick out so far.

Now I'm 63 I'm more voluptuous, but with everything going south. :O) (at a fast rate)

Hugs to you Gabe.

Turtle if you were to move to Australia i think this might counter-act what you are experiencing, as they would then be forced to head north. but caution is advised as you could end up with hooters up by your ears.

Funny with the English dress sizes: when I was in London I couldn't find a size 8 anywhere and size 10 was too large for me;)

On 'starving to death' topic: The problem is that the TV/ cinematic cameras (though they differ substantially) actually make the person larger. Thus the actreses starve themselves to look not only skinny but actually bone+skin, as on the cinematic screen they look 'just right'.

Try comparing a regular picture of an actress and her cinematic self - she does look bigger in the cinema.

The optics of the cameras work like that.

so what you are saying is that if the aforementioned pretty lady that is looking at me wears glasses( an optical device) despite my breathing in and appearing thin technique, it is a waste of time because she will still see me as overweight!! so what you are really saying is that i should drink more beer, because i will always appear to be some kind of chubster to glasses-wearing pretty ladies?

Quote - so what you are saying is that if the aforementioned pretty lady that is looking at me wears glasses( an optical device) despite my breathing in and appearing thin technique, it is a waste of time because she will still see me as overweight!! so what you are really saying is that i should drink more beer, because i will always appear to be some kind of chubster to glasses-wearing pretty ladies?

:)

Yup.
But seriously: my best friend, who is a slim lady (wears size 10) and is generally attractive likes men with meat on their bones. A beer belly is not a drawback.

And true, glasses -- especially the minus ones -- distort the view. But worry not, those who wear glasses know about that trick and their mind processes the optical information;) I know, I wear glasses (-6.5). Well, not all the time, as I usually wear contact lenses... Oh, nevermind.

"Americans have been snatching food from the mouths of starving Third World children" I've never even been to the third world.

well, it may be true that thousands of africans are dying of starvation every day, but I dunno if we can assign blame. we would be doing more to solve the problem, but events in the mid-east and east asia have overshadowed that, for the time being.

Gabe:
"erm.. so whats a size 0 in britain? a size -3? :)"

I have never seen a size 0 in the UK. Actually I've never seen anything less than a size 6 here (and that's only in those posh shops where if you're more than a size 12, they look at you as if you're a whale and watch you like a hawk in case your fat cells jump onto them and cause them to gain half an ounce on their left eyelash.) Most shops don't sell anything below an 8. Even the online Petite specialists generally don't go below 6 (well, I couldn't find any.) Some places are apparently looking to stock size 4s, but they are generally aimed at children and genuinely petite women (i.e. under 5 feet tall) rather than skinny tall women.

Interesting article about it here:
http://www.fuk.co.uk/news/ever_decreasing_sizes

"thousands of africans are dying of starvation every day,"

I may be wrong, but most of them are dying because of the stupidity and rapaciousness of their own governments. 
The Rabbis taught that Charity should start with one's immediate family, then with ones neighborhood, and then with ones city.  Only after all that, and if one still has the where withal, should one concern oneself with the denizens of a far off land.
DPH

i'm reading the topic, and i  gotta say, in this society  thin is in in  the movie/fashion business. sad really. even i, at 27, is affected by it... as im sure a lot of young women are.. trying to be perfect in every way . i myself am a size 12 (u.k.) 16 (u.s.)71 kg's. is that thin? or fat+ i sometimes think im too fat  and i m too shy sometimes etc to leave my house, cus i feel that the skinny girls in their short skirts and bikinis are staring  at me. etc....  and how i wish that thin was out!:P  like nicole ritchie ,she  could put on her *former * weight on again and even Paris, and all the famous young hollywood women, then id feel alot better about MY looks!:D  but would i ever diet to be a size very teeny not ever!

plus, when i make renders in poser etc. i dont use the  thin* morphs, alltho i notice sometimes i try to make my figures perfect:P *

runs off to make sum voluptuous poser women byee:D

I prefer my women to be plump.  I remember that my wife was never as exciting as when she was pregnant.
DPH

“current trend of world hunger,”

What trend?

“Americans have been snatching food from the mouths of starving Third World children for generations”

What??? Last time I checked food was one of the last things the US still produces it’s self.

 “double bind that millions of years of culture and contemporary values represent”

Millions of years????? What culture would that be?

 “we eat like pigs to show that we are the leaders of the economic world”

No actually we are obese because we eat junk food, we eat junk food because it’s fast, cheep, easy to come by, and tasty.

Ok I’m getting off this one now I just couldn’t let those pass

Agreed anorexia is not a look the proper term would be emaciated but Blackhearted’s morphs are hardly that I’d term them athletic/tone.

As far as the top two I’d agree with them being voluptuous soft, curvy, and very little if any muscle tone, you could likely add two more levels up from that but you’d likely offend somebody if you didn’t name them well.

As long as society equates “thin” with sexy, successful and that the “thin” are the only ones worthy of life, then the number of eating disorders with continue to grow at an alarming rate. We live in a society that if one does not fit into the glamorous fantasy world of Hollywood they are shunned. It is as if they had a hump on their back and lived in a bell tower or should be burned at the stake. More and more people are being treated terribly because they don’t look a certain way. Women are bombarded daily with images and content on how they are “suppose” to look. It seems that every time a woman picks up a “Glam” magazine her self worth drops 50 points or more. She is reminded by a shallow society that because she doesn’t look like a “star” or what society deems as beautiful she should hide herself away or need not live.

Quote- “Americans have been snatching food from the mouths of starving Third World children for generations.” I have had the misfortune to have been in third world countries where there was mass starvation.  I was sent there to protect the food from the warlords or governments of these countries who would have hoarded it all for themselves or sold it to the highest bidder. Here in the U.S. there are thousands of children that face hunger each day. Maybe the UN needs to get involved with that ‘cause it sure doesn’t look like our own politicians give a shit.

Cheers,

Micheál

Quote - Some places are apparently looking to stock size 4s, but they are generally aimed at children and genuinely petite women (i.e. under 5 feet tall) rather than skinny tall women

Back when I was a teenager of 14 to 17 I ate my way to almost 200 pounds!  I decided that I was going to fit into a size 12 gown for my graduation come hell or high water!  I went on a low carbohydrate diet  (not NO carbohydrate as those are deadly and I sure wasn't going to starve myself.!  I'm part Ukrainian and love food too much,  LOL).  I also went  roller skating  almost every day and worked out on a weight gym at school for an hour or two daily, with the coaching of the gym teacher.

I managed to lose 70 pounds in 4 months and managed to get into my gown...just!  I went on to lose another 12 pounds to get down to 118 pounds and into a size 4 or 6 dress.  I thought I looked good back then and I had no lack of compliments on my weight loss and appearance.

However, I look back at pictures of me at 118 or even 125 pounds and I look more pale than I normally am and to me I look sickly. I don't even recognize myself in some pictures.  Of course burning the candle at both ends while working full time and going to high school full time and partying in between and fitting in 2 or 3 hours of sleep in might have been a factor to the ghostly/worn out appearance.

But while I didn't have bones jutting out  and was quite toned  I was also thin and under my ideal weight for my height.

I'm 5 feet 7 inches and the ideal body weight for my height is 140 pounds. 

We all have our own ideals about what we see in the mirror when we look into it and that influences us as to how we see others.

It's evident that BH prefers ultra thin women and therefore makes his morphs to reflect that. To him they don't look skinny or anorexic, because that's the figure type that he prefers on a woman. 

While I don't particularly care for the female body types that he depicts in most of his morphs because I find them too thin, I don't  begrudge him the right to make whatever figure shapes he wants; after all it's his craft and his store.  While to him they are "ideal",  to me they aren't because I feel the normal average woman is more akin to the top image of his image set.

Those that don't like the the shape of his morphs should just move on and spend their money on morphs  that fit  their own ideals on what a normal, healthy woman's body  looks like.

Quote - As long as society equates “thin” with sexy, successful and that the “thin” are the only ones worthy of life, then the number of eating disorders with continue to grow at an alarming rate. We live in a society that if one does not fit into the glamorous fantasy world of Hollywood they are shunned. It is as if they had a hump on their back and lived in a bell tower or should be burned at the stake. More and more people are being treated terribly because they don’t look a certain way. Women are bombarded daily with images and content on how they are “suppose” to look. It seems that every time a woman picks up a “Glam” magazine her self worth drops 50 points or more. She is reminded by a shallow society that because she doesn’t look like a “star” or what society deems as beautiful she should hide herself away or need not live.

Very well said :)

It's not wrong to be thin, nor is it wrong to find thin women attractive.  It is wrong to try to live up to other people's standards and expectations, whether those standards and expectations are realistic or not.  Anorexics are their own victims, not society's.  I don't think emaciation is something anyone considers beautiful.

There's another eating disorder called obesity, that's far more prevalent than anorexia.  I would be willing to bet that obesity kills more people and causes more health problems than anorexia.  Yet, no one finds death from obesity-related causes to be tragic.

Bottom line -- we need to learn to be happy with ourselves and learn to live with our limitations.  I don't think it's our "standards of beauty" that are causing these eating disorders.

Well im proud to say im a british size 24!!!

dunno what that it is in the US must find out as im living here LOL

i LOVE the first images, the voluptuous ladies are gorgous, yones arent to bad either, but the rest NO NO!

but BH you have forgot the people above the voluptuous, i know you said, you dont want to get your head bitten off, but i think they should be shown.

im not FAT nor OBESE im just a lill podgy, im tall too, whichkinda counteracts the other out 6 foot 1inch so for a lass thats pretty tall, i like to see women that are voluptuous/curvy/buxom because to me that is how a woman SHOULD look!

She is reminded by a shallow society that because she doesn’t look like a “star” or what society deems as beautiful she should hide herself away or need not live.

Yeah, okay.  Exaggerate much?

Perhaps you should take a closer look at what's actually out there being considered "attractive" before stating sweeping generalizations.

Walk down to a store with a wide selection of magazines and take a gander at the ones using images of women in an obvious manner to attract male readers.  All manner of races and, these days, all manner of body shapes.   Sure, there's you trim, big-busted Playboy version, but there's also the athletic/muscular ones, the voluptuous ones, the thin ones, the curvy ones, so on and so forth.

If you only look at the magazines focusing on a single demographic then sure, all the women look the same.  Look beyond the same demographic.

I agree Keith.

I don't understand the "Society makes me feel bad about myself" claims.

I mean...if what one sees in a magazine or a movie becomes the measuring stick of ones self worth,that I'd wager that a few extra pounds would be the least of ones problems.

It the same with men when it comes to money,and when the total of his bank account is the measuring stick of his self worth.

I just don't get how someone can let someone else's opinions,govern their self image to the point of hiding away.

Who is really the Shallow one in this scenario?

Tom

The last pics are scary. Poor girls!