my eyeeesss.. :(

Quote -  

It the same with men when it comes to money,and when the total of his bank account is the measuring stick of his self worth.

 

I just don't get how someone can let someone else's opinions,govern their self image to the point of hiding away.

 

Who is really the Shallow one in this scenario?

 

Tom

not me tom, i'm fuckin loaded....rrotflmao

billy

Quote - Perhaps our passions change as we age.

 

I mean..look at me back in my younger days.

 

8 )

Tom

are you a pole dancer or a cheque bouncer lmao. the pic is so funny lmao

billy

Quote - For what its worth,as a man,I'm much more attracted to a woman who has some weight ( The voluptuous group in BH's Primer ),than any of the other groups.

 

I think men may fall victim to what society thinks they should like.Tom

for what it's worth, i'm attracted to women that straddle my loins and moan a lot inbetween using phrases like...who's ya daddy and i ain't chargin ya for this one sailor boy

billy

gadzooks, tom! I dunno which pole to stare at :lol:

Quote - are you sure marilyn monroe was a size 14 in the 50s?
she looks like a pretty small size 14 :)

Clothes must have been tighter back in the old days...

Actually Nancy,.. "That" is the measuring stick of my self worth...

8 )

Tom

The "Marilyn was a size 14" thing is because she was a size 14 UK size ;-)
She does indeed look like a 14 UK. And very beautiful.

she was american though, not british. what was she doing wearing british dress sizes?:)

seems like a convenient way to skew an argument.. heh. i could look at someone like anna nicole smith who is a size 18, convert it to a UK size and say 'look, we have size 22 playboy models in north america' :)

oh, and while were on the subject... i never got what the big deal was with marilyn monroe.
to me, she just seemed like a dumb blonde who happened to be in the right place at the right time, and ended up knowing (read: sleeping with) the right people.

im more of a bettie page guy....
now theres a hardworking girl :)

and an interesting article on marilyn monroe's dress size... that ties in directly to this thread.

Have you noticed that Betty and Marilyn have small breasts? BTW, vintage clothes from the 1950s ran much smaller than now, so Marilyn probably would fit into a 7 or 9 today.  Victorian ladies clothing fits thin, short kids. Same with Civil War uniforms. They would fit small boys. People get taller and bigger with every generation. As far as Blackhearted, "Will you marry me and do all the cooking???" He sounds like he would make a wonderful wife., LOL! Wonderful animation, Hawkfyr!

id say bettie page had 'small breasts'.. they looked great.
but marilyn? wasnt she a D? many of the pics i posted above were from when she was quite young so perhaps she hadnt filled out yet :)

anyways her 37-22-36 measurements are a total crock. im no tailor, but i can tell that she didnt have a 22" waist. maybe in a corset or with a belt (or ratcheting cargo strap) cinched around her waist, sure.. but those arent your 'measurements'. seems marketing was just as bad back then as it is now.

Quote - " are you sure marilyn monroe was a size 14 in the 50s?
she looks like a pretty small size 14 :) "

She's doing that twist-to-the-side pose which makes the waist look smaller, so that could skew perception.

I saw a show which went into the whole "Beauty Template" theory - that it's all about ratios than actual sizes. So your bum relative to your waist would be considered ideal for health/procreation if it fits this template.

But exaggeration (BIG bum to THIN waist) also works this "template" response in the opposite effect.

But a crappy (or non-existant) personality is always a turn off I reckon.

Cheers

A crappy personality is the pits. But in order for some people to feel good about themselves they will take the crap personality as long as the person they with is beautiful. It is kind of what Tom was refering to about men being told by society what type of women they should have. I knew a few guys in my time with "trophy" wives it made them feel like more of a man.

Hey don't forget Jayne Mansfield and Jane Russell

Did you know Mariska Hargitay of Law and Order SVU is Jayne Mansfield's youngest daughter?

OKay.........

What do you mean by fast food? Are you just talking about McDonalds or are you adding in the rest of them? Like Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Kentucky Fried Chicken and some non-big chain places? You can get heavy without hitting those places and them being used as a scapegoat is old news. Another thing is this low fat crap. Yes, maintaining a low fat diet is important and great for cardio-vascular health however, people replace the high fat foods with foods high in carbohydrates. The average person does not need large amounts of complex carbs (Breads, starches and pastas) unless they are a professional athlete or some one with a very physical occupation. They need the carbs for the vast amounts of energy they burn. My diet consists of low-fat and low-carb foods. The only time I take in more carbs is when I am hiking, XC-skiing or snow shoeing not only that I am closing in on the 50 mark and my body doesn't burn things like it did when I was 25.Oh yeah, moderation and personal responsibility are key. It's okay to have some of the things you like as long as it's in moderation. IT is your responsibility to make wise food choices not the fast food joints, grocery stores and other eating establishments. This era of blaming others is getting old and it’s childish. It reminds me of my children when they were young and would blame their imaginary friends for their behavior.

Cheers,

Micheál

Yeah I saw a doco on Mansfield where they showed the SVU chick as her daughter (you can spot the resemblance once you've been told of the fact ,heheh).

I guess Health is the actual point here - you can be big or thin etc and be attractive as long as you don't look unhealthy with it.

One person can be size 16 and healthy with it, but someone else can be size 16 and look like Baron Harkonen from the Dune movie...

That also goes for people with average builds whose poor health can be revealed by a bad complexion etc - (that means all of YOU with the nice translucent Screen-Tan! heheheh) they might not have a visible weight problem but that doesn't mean they aren't sporting cheese-lined arteries...

Cheers

since you brought up 'low fat' -- many people are often under the misconception that if something is labeled 'low fat' or 'fat free' it must be healthy.
there are many things that have no fat, but are pure calories. soft drinks, jam, candies, etc. sugar is even worse for you than fat.

some fat is necessary in your diet. i actually disagree with all of these health fads... like with the 90s it was completely eliminating fat from your diet and going overboard on the protein, now its avoiding carbohydrates, etc.
i think that completely eliminating something from your diet can be just as harmful as overindulging in it. as for what is good for you? humans are omnivores. millions of years of evolution put us here like this. vegans? pfft..... eat your meats, grains, fruits, vegetables, and dont overdo it on the unnatural crap like sugars, synthetics, additives, preservatives, caffeines, nicotines, etc and youll be fine :)

Quote - I guess Health is the actual point here - you can be big or thin etc and be attractive as long as you don't look unhealthy with it. One person can be size 16 and healthy with it, but someone else can be size 16 and look like Baron Harkonen from the Dune movie...

within reason, IMO.
if you are getting up there in the size 20s you should try and lose some weight - not to fit some media ideal but because you will live longer. that is not just an 'opinion' -- it is proven medical fact that obesity leads to a dramatically higher risk of a wide variety of ailments, diseases and afflictions.

there needs to be a very clear line drawn with the 'feel good in your own skin' and 'be happy with the way you are' type media. being significantly obese is not healthy, and noone should be encouraged to stay that way.

im sure there are people that are, say, a size 20 and look healthy and think they are healthy, but the inescapable fact is that they are not. many people rationalize being overweight like its some sortof personal preference or style choice. they are is deluding themselves... if i go and put on a pair of leather pants instead of my usual blue jeans its not going to halve my lifespan. being merely 'overweight' increases your chances of developing type 2 diabetes seven-fold. being obese makes you 20 to 40 times more likely to develop diabetes. this is not a matter of personal preference, its a matter of being unhealthy. encouraging someone to feel good about being obese is as absurd as encouraging them to jump for joy that they are a lifetime chain-smoker.

screw the societal ideals, and anyone that is attracted to you based primarily on your looks is not worth being with -- but if one thing motivates you to shed some pounds let it be the opportunity to live a longer, healthier life.

I mean...just because I'm more attracted to women with weight,doesn't mean I wouldn't buy BH's morphs if the project called for it.

But I'm sure my personal preferences played a big role when I decided to make my own character.

I'm not much of a modeler but this is what I have so far.

Tom

Oh yeah - I should have said "aren't unhealthy with it" rather "don't look unhealthy with it."

There's definately a division between societal ideals of beauty and natural/biological ideals - the languae has been somewhat usurped by marketeers and the like unfortunately who have learned the tricks of reshaping societal ideals for monetary gain (basically people who use "Manufacturing Consent" as a play-book rather than an awareness-raising aid.)

Cheers

The women's sizes have also changed. Even just in a few years. My girlfriend used to be a size 2, now a size 0 can be too large for her because the sizes have shrunk.

Haven’t I heard some place that dress manufacturers have been gradually increasing the actual size of women’s clothing in-order to save the egos of modern women? I know for a fact I was stuck in a conversation (yes stuck) where a woman stated that her daughter, a size 4 in the 90's, took some of her friends clothing that were vintage 70's also size 4 and couldn’t come close to getting them on.

And 1% body fat does not equal health, but you can come close as long as you maintain muscle and proper diet. At the same time no matter what the average is, 30% or higher body fat is not heathy.

My question is if the standard of beauty is so scqued in the overly thin direction why is over weight the norm? Just because what’s seen as perfection is unattainable that don’t mean it’s ok to just give up.

Look at men what is perfection for us? The Greek-God look that’s also nearly 1% body fat on top of which 4-8 hours a day at the gym, to get that look. That’s not average either and for most men quite unattainable. But when a man sees another man that’s emaciated he wonders what’s physically wrong with him, he does not sit there and blame societies views of physical attraction.

But to the point Blackhearted’s characters look great, they are not emaciated and for someone to say they are, to me is a slap in the face of those women who do the work, eat right, work-out, and have bodies that are tone with little fat and yes look great.

Finally if your casting for an athletic adventurer type character like Laura Croft or Red Sonia you are not looking for an Anna Nicole Smith type or larger to play it.

Well to me, if you can actually SEE someone's hipbones, they're too thin.

The only bone I can accept showing is a collarbone (heh and the skull..) Everything else is ... icky emaciated.

OK that may just be an excuse because I probably weight about twice as what I ought to, but you know what? I like me :)

And I SERIOUSLY don't think skinny looks healthy. Skinny looks famished.

I'm not advocating for obesity, that's as icky as emaciated bodies, but...  something in between.

Luckily a lot of guys actually want something to hold onto ;)
(oh and I don't like skinny men either... except for Snape and he is, after all, a fictional character LOL)

Yeah...but our hero could come in many forms.

8 )

Tom

true, though I don't know about THAT form :blink:

We are all gonna die and that's a fact and from what and when no one can say. All you can do is try to stay as healthy and happy as you can. Besides, at the rate Americans are dying in auto accidents you're more likely to get smoked in your car.

I sometimes think how ironc it would be for me to have been sent to the most violent hell holes on earth were the people there would love to have disemboweled me only to be neutralized and put in vinyl just from being in my car....interesting.... Ehem....sorry just a dark moment I have so many.

Anyway stay healthy!

DON’T say auto accidents been in two this year, both as a passenger, both with my wife driving, both within a month of each other, both totaling out her vehicle, both the fault of someone not paying attention.

The first a teen girl decides at the last second that she is going to gun it and try and turn in front of us at an intersection it was a wet night, we were going about 30 through a green light she was coming from the opposite direction and we hit nearly head on. Air-bags do work.

After we got things settled with the girls insurance company my wife got a new suv (a small one a Honda cr-v) 4 days later we are coming home from seeing my mom when this old guy comes off a side road and slams into us (I intimately know the workings of side curtain air-bags now). The officer put "drinking but not impaired" on his report for the guy that hit us my wife told the officers superior that running a stop sign and hitting a black suv in the middle of a sunny day seemed like indications of impairment to her, his superior agreed. This guy had high-risk insurance (history of driving under the influence) its been two months and yesterday I got the call that they are finally paying of her car and sending us the remainder.

Quote - Well to me, if you can actually SEE someone's hipbones, they're too thin.

The only bone I can accept showing is a collarbone (heh and the skull..) Everything else is ... icky emaciated.

Precisely!  When you start to see bones like the hip, ribs, joints (knobby shoulders, knees, fingers) and outlines of tendons, that's just gross to look at, and is certainly indicative of being under weight.  Percentage of body fat on a women is extremely important for her hormone levels as well as child bearing ability.

bah.

Blackhearted's girls are way too thin and just skin and bones. He should be looking to real women.

giggles

Hi gabe :D

laughs maniacally and runs away

On the original point:
I think that Gabe should make whatever he likes and people can either buy it and use it or not. If someone else wants to make different body types of women, they can.  It is a sad statement that he felt harressed and possibly insulted enough that he had to make this post.  If people have requests for him, be sure not be confrontational or insulting.....ya know...be nice about it and he might consider it more seriously.  :)

--Rebekah--

What sets Marilyn Monroe "apart from the rest" is her tragic death and that she died when she was still beautiful.  She's a real-lfe tragic heroine.  Other great beauties "fade away."  Marilyn took her beauty and fame to the grave.  On the outside, Marilyn had everything to live for, yet she chose to die.  There have been, are, and will be women who are more beautiful, but none more "tragic."       

Quote - "Americans have been snatching food from the mouths of starving Third World children" I've never even been to the third world.

I have, food sucks

Quote - Well to me, if you can actually SEE someone's hipbones, they're too thin.

Umm, I'm a size 8 and you can STILL see my hipbones. I am certainly not 'underweight'..that is not a precise indication of someone being too thin.

First things first, this has been a very interesting post....and, I found myself totally engaged with Acadia's point....that most "Plus Sized" clothing is absolutely ghastly (and, well, if you go for stylish "Plus Sized" clothing....................if you're over a 18, I, as a fat woman, feel it should be illegal, on penalty of death, to wear a freaking belly shirt and brazillian cut jeans.   ICK.).  I don't blame my current weight on society, or even my situation, but, quite frankly, my lack of self-control in my situation.  After I lost my job last year, and couldn't deal with my (then) husband not only not looking for a job, but spending all of my severance pay in 3 shopping trips, being without money for food, clothing, and bills, I ate my way to...not happiness, but comfort.  Cheese on freaking EVERYTHING.  I'm currently a size 22.  That's down from a size 28 not 3 months ago.  But, as great as I feel when I note that I've lost 6 dress sizes in 3 months, and continue to lose weight at a healthy rate, the clothes that are available to me make me feel like shit.  First, I'm in no way going to wear clothing that will show any skin on my abdomen, and there is NO WAY IN HELL I'm going to wear tight clothing.  For people of all sizes, spankex is a PRIVELEGE.  Not a right.
But, I got a semi-professional job this past week, and I've had to spend over $300 bucks in a specialty shop for 3 suits.  THREE.  I'm used to cobbling together outfits from clearance racks and making things work.  I can't afford it, and don't know many who could.  No wonder so many large women just deal with the fact that the really UGLY ass clothes that are left on the racks for them.  People who know me know that I am in NO way a yellow-flower print type of chick.  To be completely honest, I'd rather not have a professional job, and wear nice, comfy old man pants and cowboy shirts.  That's been my comfy style since high school, and, while I'm aware that I look like a geek in that, It's my CHOICE to look like a geek.  the "choice" left to larger women isn't a choice, it's a force.  Unless you can find someone to loan you the money to shop at a specialty shop.  I figure, you know, if my dad, who is 6'4", and 265lbs, can shop in the regular stores, I should be able to find something somewhat normal.  I'm 5'8" and 250lbs., and can't find a damn thing that's worth wearing.  For someone who's young and actually fashion conscious, those things are an utter detriment.  I wonder, if I were actually back in the mindset I was in a year ago, would I have settled?  You bet your ass!  I'd have settled, then gone out and bought a pound of cheddar, some cream and butter, some cream cheese and sugar, and gone ahead and made some homemade mac and cheese and a cheesecake and ate it by myself.  Now?  I made a complaint at the store, and took my business elsewhere.  For myself, I can't afford to balloon up again.  For my son, I can't afford to not be able to run around with him.  For my family, I can't afford to not be able-bodied to help around the farm.  Some people either don't have the support or just aren't emotionally strong enough to pull up their bootstraps and deal with the shit.  You either walk through it, clean it up, or sit in it.  No one else can choose for you.

Now that I think I threw out 40 mixed metaphors, LOL, I'm going to bed.

me and my big mouth. I read in an article about 15 years ago about the 'size 14' bit..;) Could be another urban myth. Actually, towards the end of her career (late 50's, early 60's) she had, er, 'plumped out' a touch.

there's room enough for all sorts of body shapes. The anorexic look leaves me cold, unhappy-looking women aren't that appealing. But that's me..;)

pakled, you said the right thing... there IS room enough for all sorts of body shapes! I like woment from the skinny to the volumptuous range and maybe a bit more! The really important thing it that they are HAPPY! The unhappy ones have the problems wheither in one extreme, the other extreme or in between.

variety makes the world go round!

mike

Quote - For people of all sizes, spandex is a PRIVELEGE.  Not a right.

hehe. interestingly, many women i know who are obese would wear spandex.
their unofficial uniform seems to be spandex pants or tights, with a tshirt thats about 8 sizes too big for them and hangs down to mid thigh, and running shoes.

im no expert, but IMO tailored clothing looks better on larger women. i know its more expensive but surely you can shop around for deals somewhere. the fashion stores around here have up to around size 18ish... and ive seen separate plus size versions of many popular stores (though why they have to segregate larger women to their own store i dont know).
do you americans have 'Winners' in the states? its basically a store that sells all brand name or designer stuff -- ralph lauren, liz claiborne, tommy, calvin klein, etc -- at severely discounted prices. you have to hunt through things (so there wont be one style of shirt from size S to XXXL, there may be just a M and an XL) but they have plus and petite sizes as well.
you can pick up a pair of pants, or a shirt that was originally $120 for around $30... its a pretty sweet place, i do a lot of my shopping there.

there are a lot of styles of clothing aside from spandex pants or 4" long miniskirts that look downright sexy on larger women. sure, its a bit of extra work finding them, but its like that for every woman thats not around the average height/weight range. i have to hem like 6" off of every single pair of pants rio buys.
they have those shaper thingies now too which can give you some wicked curves -- the effect on some women is jaw-dropping. some bathing suits even have them built-in.

on a side note, why are 90% of the women modeling clothing in plus size sections of stores thin? try http://www.fredericks.com/ for example.

oh, and in my googling i found this :)

Yeah, we have a sort of "Winners".  Well, Winners and TJ Maxx are owned by the same company, so yeah, same store, different name.   But, I haven't shopped at stores like that for clothes since the 90's ;)  They are excellent for home decor, dishes, and small furniture, though;)

In my (reeeeeeeeally rural) area, there's the one shoppe, and it's at least 45 miles away from where I am now.  I've never been one to fuss over my outward appearance, so this whole having clothes made specifially for me stuff........it's really akward.  And, when I'm not comfortable with my fatness, it makes it that much worse.  I'm not a girly girl.  Yes, I know how to wear makeup.  I was a cheerleader in high school, and I did beauty pageants.  That's one of those things you do here.  The winner of the pageant usually ended up milking a goat in a ball gown anyway.  And I've never been skinny.  My body frame is more suited for the muscular look, anyway, so I'll never ever be a size 6.  In fact, I'd look HORRIBLE.  I have a picture, somewhere, of my older sister as a size 6, and she looks like a heroin addict :P 
But, there are great places, mostly online, for shopping for bigger ladies.  I like torrid.com.  heh, my wishlist there is 3x as long as it's ever been here.  Although, there's no way I'd ever wear my Dickies as tight as they're advertised.

I'm just babbling now.  I'm trying to make today not happen.  (I found out last night, at about 11PM, that I'm set to sing and play guitar for the "really exciting" 125th anniversary "party" for our town.  Our really big one.  That.............has a 4 way stop sign, an elementary school, a high school, a phone company.............................and the railway crosses a whole TWO of our streets.  Yee-freaking-haw)

Oh, and those Spanx shapers?  I TOTALLY swear by them.  They are FAN-freaking-TASTIC!

by tailored i should have said 'fitted'.

like my first example above is a very fitted look, but you can buy something like that off the rack.
throwing on a sweatshirt, for example, or a baggy tshirt, would be the opposite of fitted.

this is cute:

but then what is it with the typical dress like this:

these giant prints look absurd, IMO. is it supposed to be some sortof 'overweight camo' that blends the woman's shape? i dont like most of their dresses, i think you could do a lot better.

oh, and btw ive been to a TJ maxx in detroit. they may be the same company but the difference between the two was night and day... it was grungy, messy and you had to hunt for a long time just to find something you like, the salespeople were snooty and snappy.
then again, it was in detroit so they may be different elsewhere.

rofl at the superheroes...
that elf dude is really creepy, jesus

Quote - oh, and btw ive been to a TJ maxx in detroit. they may be the same company but the difference between the two was night and day... it was grungy, messy and you had to hunt for a long time just to find something you like, the salespeople were snooty and snappy.
then again, it was in detroit so they may be different elsewhere.

rofl at the superheroes...
that elf dude is really creepy, jesus

My bet on the scrunginess factor would be that you went to one in Detroit.  The one in Toledo is better, as are the two (I think) that I've been to in Minneapolis.  Beyond that, they could all be scrungy, who knows?

heh, I never said I'd wear everything I saw in torrid ;)  I do, however, have plans to buy that military dress on Friday ;)  The tube dress?  Not a freaking chance.  Halter dress? Maybe, if the back isn't cut too low, and I can wear my hair down.  But, no tube tops, belly shirts, or brazillian cut jeans (hell, those are gross on most skinny girls, LMAO)
Anyway, I've been procrastinating for long enough.  Time for me to go suck in the outside world.  Hopefully, LOL, it will rain, and I can come home.

I'm sorry, I find this thread silly. Anorexia is a disease of the mind where a person loses weight because they "think" that they're fat. It has nothing to do with actual weight of a person. Some people can eat and eat and never put on a pound and other's can look at food and get fat. This has to do with a person's metabolism, not their state of mind. While I do think that Blackhearted's figures can be a bit "thin" and Aery Soul's down right skinny, this has nothing to do with anorexia. I personally find women beautiful in almost all forms except obese and super muscled. It seems to me that the problem here is not what these figures look like but our perceptions and therefore we need to look into the mirror before we bitch.

thats exactly the point of this thread though, zorares... despite which directions it took.

sure you can be 300 pounds and be anorexic... but there since poser characters do not have a mental element you can only evaluate them by look alone.
i dont like my morphs being referred to as anorexic, thats all. this thread exists to show people theres a huge difference between thin and anorexic, and the word should not be used lightly.
much less the phrase 'disturbingly anorexic' or 'disgustingly anorexic'.

hmm..don't tell the missus...but she's in the double-digit range. TJMaxx is one destination, and something else called the Fashion Bug, which has stuff she can't find. She'd like to lose a lot of weight, but I loves her anyways, and that's what counts..;)

Quote - hehe. interestingly, many women i know who are obese would wear spandex.
their unofficial uniform seems to be spandex pants or tights, with a tshirt thats about 8 sizes too big for them and hangs down to mid thigh, and running shoes.

And in my opinion, they do a great disservice to themselves. The only times I'm wearing that sort of thing is when I'm cleaning my house.

Quote - im no expert, but IMO tailored clothing looks better on larger women. i know its more expensive but surely you can shop around for deals somewhere.

It does look a HELL of a lot better, but because of the difference in sizes, it's very difficult to tailor things right. Example: two people might have similar hip and waist measurement, but in one it can be mostly located on the sides (making them wide but not "thick") and in other, at the front, in a belly. Yet according to standardise sizes they should both be wearing the same size, although anybody can tell that the construction of fitted clothing for one will not be the same for one as for the other. The only real way to beat this is to have clothes made to measure, either by yourself or by a seamstress, or to have them altered as necessary. But both solutions require extra cash on top of what tends to be already quite expensive clothing.

The second problem is that quite often it is very difficult to find clothes that actually suit large women. Either because they're trying to blindly follow what's fashionable, making larger sizes of things that no self-respecting large person should be wearing (large apliqué pockets on hips and breasts, tube tops, large prints and other niceties come to mind) or because they're making things that resemble circus tents because it's easier to make something that will fit everybody, by making it shapeless.

And Gabe, re the large prints, totally agreed. Now think how much nicer that stupid white dress would look in a plain fabric: it shows off cleavage and nice shoulders, tapers the silhouette with the A-line skirt, and enhances the waist with the long waist-cincher style. I have the feeling however that the large prints are supposed to make you look smaller because small prints would appear to be too many, or some other nonesense like that.  Me? give me nicely cut, no-prints any time.

Then again, that's exactly the reason why I started making some clothes for myself.

Arien

Marilyn M's Size 14 is a ludicrous piece of folklore that won't die. I've heard it repeated scornfully by women who were "bigger" than MM in every dimension and themselves smaller than a size 14 (the real point of the canard, after all). One of them considered my adoration of her twin-peach posterior utterly inconceievable and confided to me one day that she accepted the childhood nickname Bubblebutt. She was built like one of my two favorite Poser femmes, BH's free Angelina of the Soft Guitar (a V2 morph if I remember correctly).

The "British sizes" explanation for "Size 14" is the only one I've seen that makes any sense.  And I find it interesting that the only picture that really looks like MM in BH's post is the last one, where what changes is not just the superficial (the hair color), but the confidence and self-regard in the smile. The other pictures are someone pretending to be MM. The last one is her being Marilyn.

There are many prettier women than MM (not including Page, IMO), and many healthier bodies than hers (maybe including Page). And a chorus line of wannabes and self-anointed heirs, but only one Marilyn, who was not a body or a personality or even, I think, a person, but a new way of being female, one that our porn-craving prudery despised and rejected.

M

Quote - The really important thing it that they are HAPPY! The unhappy ones have the problems wheither in one extreme, the other extreme or in between.

Hear, hear!  I was a Weight Watchers trainer for a year or so (which you can't do unless you have been there and lost the weight; I lost fifty pounds), and the thing I harped on constantly with my folks is that if you are happy, you are probably the right weight.

The most interesting phenomenon I found was that successful weight losers often celebrated that success with a nice divorce. As did I. Speaking of co-dependency....

M

What's that joke - "Thanks to weight watchers I lost 200 pounds of unsightly fat - his name was Fred."

Cheers

Quote - Me? give me nicely cut, no-prints any time.

Then again, that's exactly the reason why I started making some clothes for myself.

Arien

Ditto!  No matter what size I am I prefer plain, no print outfits.  I think prints are better on windows or furniture,  LOL

I also design and make a great deal of my own clothing. Especially my nursing uniforms because I can make one for $10 to $20 vs $60 in the uniform stores.

Not only that, but I have only a 24" inseam and even petite pants need to be hemmed up about 2 inches for me.  Buying non petite items requires me having to crop off 6 inches or even more at times from the bottom of pants, which requires me to have to re-taper the legs.  It's a royal pin in the butt.  It just seems easier for me to create my own design and pattern and get something that fits me where I need it.