Well I don't think I'll bother purchasing an upgrade until this sorry mess has been sorted properly!

Two quick points...

It amazes me how people begrudge someone else getting a better deal  than themselves.  The nature of special offers - be it an upgrade price, an introductory price, buy one get one free or whatever is they are all inherently unfair to someone who doesn't qualify.  There is a school of thought that says the only fair pricing policy is that everyone pays exactly the same price.  Another school has it that the buyer should never be told a price and should make an offer which the vendor then accepts or rejects.

Can anyone blame e-on for not exposing their staff to outbursts that are appearing on some of the boards.  First which forums should they be on.  Renderosity,  Cornucopia or Daz? The German,  French, India language ones that have posts about Vue?  The one in an oriental character set I can't read that google tells me has posts about Vue?  That little forum over there in the shadows with two users who incompetently screen scrape content from other  Vue forums to try to look busy?  I for one would much rather they spent their time making Vue 6 (and Vue 5 to) the best product they can and that they gave out the information at one location (their web site) in order to avoid confusion, missinterpretation and missrepresentation.

Activation schemes are usually bad news for a company, because they just piss off their user base without having much real benefit in terms of increased sales. I recall the loss of goodwill Curious Labs suffered when they announced Poser 5 would have activation - which they subsequently had to withdraw from.

It may work for a company like Microsoft because they have a monopolistic position and don't need the goodwill of anyone. It would be unwise for e-on to go down that path, but from what agiel says, it doesn't seem they are intending to.

impish - I don't think the problem is someone else getting a better price, the problem is the supporters of the current release of V5i having to pay more then someone who hasn't upgraded for while. I am use to getting a cheaper upgrade path if I have the current version, I don't think I have ever paid more then someone who has an older version this doesn’t make sense. Usually when there is special pricing it is first offered to registered users of the current line of a companies software - then the upgrade offers come out.

I don’t have a problem paying for an upgrade, I do have a problem with paying more because I have a current version.

E-On is responsible to keep their uses informed and to answerer questions and concerns after all they are the vender and we are the customer, it show disrespect when you leave your customers to speculate. Maybe a public forum isn’t the best place to answer these questions.

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Hi Mark,

Thank-you for your thoughtful message. A couple of points to your two quick points.

I. Most companies understand the most efficient opportunity for them to market new products is to existing customers-- you've probably heard the term 'low hanging fruit' before. This market is easily targeted (user registration emails, forums, newsletters and websites), and the adoption rate is much higher than any other form of marketing. Most companies cherish this opportunity, and the users who go along with it.

So, my first point is e-on should recognize the value of their current customer base and create their pricing accordingly.

As a new (1+ yrs) user of Vue, it was only because of their customer's stunning images (like Eran Dinur's) that I purchased the product in the first place (Esprit) and then only because of the helpful souls here that I upgraded it to Vue-I.

If Vue doesn't recognize this fact, then they will lose customers, or even worse, look like a company who doesn't know what they're doing. All said, there are companies who successfully continually treat their customer base with little respect (Apple and MS come to mind). This typically happens in a environment where there is little to no competition. That is not the case with Vue.

II. Regarding your second point, about Vue's visibility to the community. I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg.  If you ever get a chance, saunter over to either Nevercenter's Silo3D or Luxology's Modo forums. Both companies carry on active dialog with their customers, and very little bickering goes on. Is it because the products are 'better' than Vue? I don't think so. A little bit of attention to paying customers can go a long way. I notice whenever Steve Bell takes a moment to respond over in e-on's forum, things go better right away. There will always be the malcontent, but many times the community polices itself regarding these individuals.

Customers are Vue's best and greatest asset. The sooner they embrace that concept fully, the more success will come to them. Just imagine if Vue's president posted a note here saying:

"While we love all our customers, we also understand the current 3D market to be a very difficult one to survive in, let alone thrive in. As much as we would like to reward all of you with a super low cost upgrade to Vue 6, it doesn't allow us to generate enough sustaining revenue to continue improving our product. In the past, taking the 'low road' has cost other 3D landscape programs future development  resources and eventually the forced sale of the franchise. I know we and our customers want Vue to be around for the long time!

So, our pricing model is based upon what we need to continue to create great products for all of you. From time to time, we will be announcing specials, both on our website and Cornucopia. All of these will be mentioned in our Cornucopia newsletter, so if you're not subscribed, please do so if you're interested.

Best regards, Nicholas"

I believe this straightforward approach would do a lot to ease tensions about the current pricing strategies. Being honest and straightforward is never a bad thing.

-Chipp

Orio, On an aside not sure why it would be different for a laptop, but I have a personal copy installed on my machine at home and at work single serial number, 2 machines, which is possible and allowed according to the Adobe rep I spoke with when I purchased CS2. We also have a work copy loaded on 2 machines in the same office. As long as you don't have both copies open at the same time or are not connected to the network, we're OK. You might want to give Adobe a call and see if they can tell you how to get authentication for you lap top unless they are telling us both 2 different stories. Good luck, g.

Good public relations is the best friend a company can have if they intend to stay in business very long..:)
 I think a few of the software vendors need a wakeup call. :)

Hm, I got a 2nd copy of V5I when I bought Lightwave, thus I have two copies of V5I, one on each of my PCs. I love this because I can work on either one and have render going on the other. One PC is mostly NET/gaming, other art, also I can use different apps at a time, like model in Rhino while other one renders Vue, or work on two different Vue scenes on the two PCs.

They are connected on a network. I don't want to have to pay for TWO copies of Vue6 upgrades though, so I can continue doing this. scratches head, bit confused.

:)

Please impish, it amazes me how some people defend corporations before they defend people who are not receiving fair deals acting as if they know better than the rest of us with a lame rationalization and some made up scenario.  As if everyone at e-on is working to make the code for vue 6.

But if you choose to represent corporations with their team of lawyers because you think they need more help, then I disagree.

I also think that you are turning this problem into a fight with your ideas on who is begrudging.  It is name calling and puts people with a real concern on the defensive and I take offense at this.

Even the moderator thought the pricing was unfair. 

Chipp:  That they are offering an upgrade price suggests e-on are aware of supporting existing customers.  This situation strikes me as being one of someone not spotting a loop hole in the pricing policy as it gets more complex rather than a deliberate attempt to snub those of us who have been using Vue for a long time.  Mistakes get made.  Some of the posters in some of the threads about this (not necessarily this one) seem to work from the position that e-on have set out to snub them through this pricing.

I once took a course taught by a guy with a long career in PR who specialised in sorting out corporate disasters.  He told us that sometimes it is a good policy to put your top people out front and centre but you should only do this if the situation is right.  Sometimes it can be the worst strategy, not the best one to follow; sometimes it can fan flames rather than calm things down.  Unfortunately, he said, usually only time tells which was the right way.

CobraEye:  I’m sorry you don’t like my holding a different point of view to you or to the majority of posters.  I’m also sorry you try to reduce my argument to cheap jibes about made up scenario in my argument or lame rationalizations.  Nor did I claim to know better than anyone else.  I’m stating my personal point of view and trying to explain where I’m coming from.  My point of view differs from yours.  I hope my having a different point of view won’t stop anyone expressing their point of view.

Software companies are made up of real people.  Real people make mistakes sometimes.  E-on isn’t a huge corporation as far as I can tell.  Their booth in the photos of Sigraph doesn’t look like the booth of a huge corporation.  I have seen no army of lawyers throwing their corporate weight around.  I’m not defending them because I think they need defending.  I just put a different point of view.  Sometimes life isn’t fair.  Sometimes other people get better deals than I do. 

I’m going to have to pay the V5I to V6I upgrade price along with anyone else in that boat.  V5I has given me a good value for money. V6I has features I'm prepared to pay the upgrade cost for.  To me that is what matters if i choose to upgrade.  Not that someone else is getting it cheaper.

Mark,

I think we're both on the same page here. I, too, believe the pricing issue is probably a mishap, with someone there just missing the point-- and I don't think e-on is out to snub customers.

While it's probably wise not to put the top guy out there in a disaster situation, I believe a few words from a 'leader' is appropriate to the community on occasion. It certainly works for other small companies.

For me, $299 for a version which I can run on both my laptop and home desktop is a no-brainer. Especially if they release a fairly robust version. I have to say I'm very impressed with the quality feature set of the planned upgrade. The only 2 things missing from my point of view would be:

1. No 16-bit support for terrains (though not yet confirmed); and 2) Inability to 'start from scratch' builiding plants. Neither of these is a show stopper.

Thanks for your support in this community. I would like to think I might be able to release some Vue python scripts sometime in the future as well. I'm a pretty decent interface designer and could certainly give you a hand if/when you add GUI to your particle systems.

best, Chipp

Something odd happened with the fomating of my last post.  I have no idea why the font changes in the middle.  Weird.

Not certain about terrains either because there is mention of 16 bit image support.  Some of this stuff will come out in the wash.  I'd like to be able to scratch build plants but I wonder if solid growth isn't built but relies on algorithms that would make my head hurt if they gave me a way to make one.  I can't see why they wouldn't have opened it up by now if it was easy to do or at least offered a plug-in to do it.

I look forward to seeing what your scripts do.  I'm embarresed by how simple some of my offerings are.  I may well take you up on the offer of help with the GUI design once I know what the options will be in V6I.  While I was trained to build GUIs I've never done it in anger.  Something called the world wide web came along and took up the next 10 years of my life instead

Impish, almost everyone sees the problem and if you want to minimize it for whatever reason fine by me. I've made my point. There is so much more going on here. The history of e-on and C3D is far more colorful then your summary tells. Dare we mention the bugs and features that do not work. Believe what you want. And please, spare me the condescending life lessons. Also, I don't care that you have a different opinion. I care about the words you use like "begrudge" that claim you know people's motives and feelings. And then if you do know their feelings why do you have the right to judge and dismiss them. That's what bothers me. If you stated your arguement in a less judgemental way this wouldn't have happened.

Sheesh...what is all this overt sensitivity anyways?

A fair price is what you are willing to pay in the democratic marketplace. A fair price is what a company can charge based on the demand within that democratic marketplace.

There is no ethical issues concerning e-on pricing schemes -- just bland marketing.  You either vote for their product or find a different candidate to vote for.  Since Carrara5.1 (which I have) has most of Vue6Is features, I'm not going to bite the upgrade -- at least not for awhile.  Between Carrara, Hexagon2, and Vue5I, I can do pretty much anything I need to do.

Please... keep the personal attacks and controversy out of the forum or I will be forced to lock this thread and move this conversation elsewhere.

agiel - as per your request I will not respond futher in this thread.  I hope no one will choose to take that lack of response in any other way than as a response to the forum moderators request.

As has been my experience since Vue 4...

E-on likes to run a "Late Buyer" promotion which historically has lead to cheaper prices than what is currently on their website. It's not unlikely that you'll see prices reduced to something less then currently are temporarily.

As for myself, since I can't buy "Vue 6" (any edition) now I'm waiting until the "Late Buyer" promotion shows up before I get to worked up about anything. If  "Vue 6" shows up before then, it'll likely be issue prone and still worth waiting on.

BTW, this is quoted from the E-on Website...

The complete pricing policy, including a late buyer upgrade offer will be available later this summer.

Regarding the upgrade pricing - what EVERYBODY seemed to have forgotten, is that E-On has offered special upgrade pricing prior to the new version being released.

If everyone could please refrain from whinning about the $299 upgrade price for now, you'll probably receive a 30-45 day special upgrade price for VUE6 just prior to it shipping.  I seem to remember that I paid something like US$149 to upgrade from VUE4PRO to VUE5i.

There is no reason why E-ON would not offer a similar deal for the existing owners just prior to release.   Almost 70 posts based on 'whinning' is overdoing it a bit.

No offence offered nor taken.  Nuff said.

Surveyman, that's "near" exactly what I was attempting to get across to people here in the my post above yours.

Everybody calm down...
Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

Quote - Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

Wow, you're right.  Am I ever glad I took advantage of the Aug. 3rd deadline to upgrade/sidegrade from my Vue 4 d-Esprit to V5I.  A few days ago, that deal did exist.  By doing so, I am eligible to receive V6I for free.

Perhaps there will be another chance as I've read in various places talk of some "late upgrade" offer being offered closer to V6I's release.  Not being rich, I didn't want to take the gamble.  I hope I did the right thing but since it's done, I can't worry myself over it.

Quote - > Quote - Vue 4 upgrade paths are blocked out now. The deal didn't exist anyway- It was only for Vue 5 users upgrading to another version of Vue 5.

Wow, you're right.  Am I ever glad I took advantage of the Aug. 3rd deadline to upgrade/sidegrade from my Vue 4 d-Esprit to V5I.  A few days ago, that deal did exist.  By doing so, I am eligible to receive V6I for free.

Perhaps there will be another chance as I've read in various places talk of some "late upgrade" offer being offered closer to V6I's release.  Not being rich, I didn't want to take the gamble.  I hope I did the right thing but since it's done, I can't worry myself over it.

No- now you CAN'T even upgrade to Vue 5 from 4!