If there were a Body room, I should think then that you could eleminate the problem of Non-Poser figures, that you have at present in the Face Room, ie the Neck mesh no longer lineing up with the Head mesh.  I should think that such problems as these could be later corrcted in a Body room, as well as the potential of say: Giving Dina a full body make-over, or making Judy a little less plump.
Those are my thoughts on the subject, for whatever they're worth.
David P. Hoadley
PS: Another Potential improvement to the Face/Body room, and maybe it even exist already (I'm just beginning to get into this whole thing, now that I have P5, and a barnd new computer) is to be able to able to develop morph targets mare easily than is presently possible with magnets. ie such as being able to create a movable dimple for animation.

It would be great if all figures could be used in the face room and adjusted in the body room because some figures would work better for the face you are trying to make.

Another thing the body room could have is presets,  like the old poser 3 poses that make the figures fat and thin etc but these presets could be just used as a starting point for making the body the way you want, it could have chest sizes etc as well.

Somebody should tell e-frontier about this idea, I think it is a great one and it would be fairly easy for them to do.

xantor, your reputation is better than mine around here, so I think that e-frontier would be more willing to listen if the request came from you, rather than me.  The inportant thing is the end results, not the agrandizement of any particular personality, and if we all wait around for someone else to take the initiative, then it will never be taken.
That's my thoughts on the matter.
Yours truly,
David P. Hoadley

xeno.....japanese handtools and american cars? phooey....should have bought German in both instances  ;) 

Quote - I doubt that poser 7 will be a total rewrite but they probably will add things like being able to use more memory and other more modern program stuff.

from what i understand the memory limit is the operating systems limit, not poser's.

although i imagine they might be able to make better use of the memory.

re: a body room.

interesting idea. but considering the face room is software licenced from another company i wouldn't get my hopes up.

DPhoadley I have never been a member at e-frontier and I am sure that I would be unknown there, anyway the idea is yours and you should get the credit for it.

Tyger_purr there is no reason why they couldn`t do a deal with the other company to make a body room.

Quote - Tyger_purr there is no reason why they couldn`t do a deal with the other company to make a body room.

They could approach them with the idea, it may or may not be worth while for the other company.

given that DAZ didnt think it was worth the cost to have their figures included i can't imagine that the cost of full body morphing would be feasable for this market.

but i could be wrong.

As part of an all-inclusive program, it wiould put Poser on a footing that was almost as equal to such advanced programs as 3dMax and Carrera; this will be especially true if the anticipated improvements in the render engine come about.  We don't need poser to be a modeler program, we've got enough figures, but to be able to shape them so that they could play an assorted  range of roles to suit our purposes, without having to export the object into other programs, that'd make Poser a whole new ballgame!  And a body room could easily compensate and correct the limitation of the present day Face room vis-a-vis the DAZ figures.
This is my 'Gut' feeling;' I can't base it upon any empiracle evidence, but I think you all catch my drift.
DPH

Quote - Andi3d - xeno.....japanese handtools and american cars? phooey....should have bought German in both instances  ;) 

Hi Andi --

It wasn't me that claimed to be the Japanese hand tool owner -- that was nomuse.   Frankly, I don't even look at the "made in _____" labels on products.  If I like something and the price is right -- then the location where it was made is meaningless to me.

I've never owned a German car.  But I did own an English car -- in fact it was my first.  An MGB GT (the old hardtop version of the MG).  It was a true "garage car"; that is, it spent about every other weekend sitting in the garage being repaired.  The word at the time was that "MG" stood for "Mechanical Gunk"........and there was also that old joke about Lucas (the British automotive electrical manufacturer/supplier) being "the Father of Darkness".  That old MG was a beautiful British racing green -- and it attracted attention.  But man, oh man was it a hassle to deal with.  The latest Mini Cooper looks to be a whole different animal from the old British cars, quality wise.

My current vehicles are one American (a Ford truck), and one Japanese.  Like I said, I just buy what I like, and whatever looks to be the best deal for the intended purpose.  I'm afraid that my days of purchasing MG's are over.

@ lmckenzie -- I believe that you hit the matter dead-on with your statement about P4 hitting the sweet spot.  Kind of like with AutoCAD 14 -- which many users still recall as being their favorite version of AutoCAD, ever -- even though it's now several versions old.  The new AutoCAD software is far more powerful -- but it's also much tougher to learn to use well.  It's far, far more detailed & nuanced.  Which is probably at least a part of the reason why some would like to return to AutoCAD 14.  And that (coupled with price) is at least a part of the reason why they sell AutoCAD LT (read: Poser Artist).

MS Paint is much easier to learn and to use than Adobe Photoshop CS2 is.  But you can do an awful lot more in Photoshop.  So I won't be taking up the cause of advocating MS Paint as a good alternative to Photoshop.

Nor will I recommend that users stick with an old version of Poser over the latest version.  Even though the latest version is harder to learn how to use.

Quote - lmckenzie -- Poser 4 may be improved on but never really equalled.

Well.....I wouldn't say "never" -- in my experience, 'never' is a dangerous word.  But P4 was definitely revolutionary in its own way -- for it's time.

Quote - shaft73 - P6 is based on old technology

And what does that say about P4?

Thank you XENOPHONZ, but what is your opinion in regard to requesting a Body room in P7?  That is now the NEW issue of this thread.  As you yourself said: "Can't keep living in the past!"

By its great P5 proliferation, it's obvious that e-frontier is leveling the field by establishong a certain brand of Poser technology as the norm, the question now before us is in which direction do we wish Poser to go, and to what degree can we influence the 'Powers-that-Be' to effect this change.

I myself would like to see a Poser that can help me realize to a greater degree those particular characters I wish to create, whether it be clone of a certain obscure porn starlet, like when I did Olga, or Aishwarna Rei, or Stephanie Swift in Eve 4; or Ron Jeremy in 'Dork' (pun inevitable).

I'd like a Poser that'd provide the tools to make this task more realizable, ie a Body room as well as a Face room.

These are my thoughts on the matter,
David P, Hoadley

PS: Since somany people have already addressed the issue of a better rendering engine, I decided NOT to rehash it.

Thank you, dphoadley -- I''d never dream of living in the past.  But I won't hesitate to answer posts in a thread which have been made since my last one -- regardless of which elements of topic drift have taken over in the interim.

As for the issues that you've brought up -- I think that a "Body Room" in P7 would be an excellent idea.  I've mentioned that in the distant past myself.  True 3D clones of real people don't just involve the face -- they involve the entire body.  And you can't do that with a face room alone.  So -- I agree: it's a great idea.

Quote - PS: Since somany people have already addressed the issue of a better rendering engine, I decided NOT to rehash it.

If it's a topic of interest to me, then I'm likely to comment on it -- regardless of what others have already said......even if it's just to say "Me, too!".  Which, admittedly, I don't often do.

well its slated to be released this year so i doubt they will be adding anything new now :-)

Yep -- most likely.  Whatever major elements they are going to include have likely already been included: outside of minor tweaks to the program.  Unless if P7 is actually a lot further off than the general buzz is indicating that it is.

Quote - Unless if P7 is actually a lot further off than the general buzz is indicating that it is.

I did something silly....

I asked....

while they officially cannot coment on projected shipdates (which is understandable) i was told i can put it on my christmas list.

obvously this could all be null if some major bug pops up that must be squished.

hehe Robert....yeah, not forgetting the acronym for Ford too....Fix Or Repair Daily...  ;)

as for Mini's, they were bought by BMW in the mid-90's, as part of the Rover group buyout, and retained when BMW subsequently disposed of the (heavily) loss making Rover....which, yanno, supports your observation about the quality them  ;)

Now, if we could just persuade soem Germans to buy Poser, damn it'd be efficient.....

Quote - I did something silly.... I asked....

Now why would you want to go and do something like that for?  It's a lot more fun to speculate.

There's a risk to companies in "letting the cat out of the bag" on matters like this -- because if they then fail to deliver by the expected time (regardless of how good the reasons are, major bugs included) -- then they've got yet another angry lynch mob on their hands.

I'm very much looking forward to getting my copy of P7.  Because as we all know: seven is the number of perfection.

Well, if a Body room can't come out with P7, maybe it could be brought out in a P7 Pro Pack edition.  Either way, it's a necessary element that needs to be added if Poser is ever going to stand independantly of such ancilliary apps such as Vue, Carrera, Cinema4D etc.
I can buy a hammer, and I can buy a chisel, and I can buy a saw... or I can by a router.  Granted, it can't drive a nail, but it will cut my grooves, miter my joints, and even saw my boards in no time at all!
David P. Hoadley

If they have improved the animation capabilities and sped up the render times then I have reason to upgrade from the PPP/Lightwave 6.5 combination I'm using now. I really don't want the hassle of learning the material room (and other advancements) and a new 3d package (Shade, Vue, Carrara, C4d etc.) to render the final animation in. Sigh. p.s. A body room sounds like a good idea but I'm an animator - not a body builder - so other things are more important to me.

Quote - hehe Robert....yeah, not forgetting the acronym for Ford too....Fix Or Repair Daily...  ;)

I've also heard "Found On the Road Dead"......

Quote - as for Mini's, they were bought by BMW in the mid-90's, as part of the Rover group buyout, and retained when BMW subsequently disposed of the (heavily) loss making Rover....which, yanno, supports your observation about the quality them  ;)

I've known several people with Rovers.  Very expensive in the first place -- and then there is the fact that they are also "garage vehicles".  Constantly in need of repair.  At least that's been my observation.

Quote - Now, if we could just persuade soem Germans to buy Poser, damn it'd be efficient.....

Well, actually it's the Americans that I would say who are largely known for software/computer hardware innovation.

But hey -- I am a strong Vue advocate.  And e-on software is a French company. :biggrin:

not so much innovation, just making the damn thing work efficiently  ;)

(back on topic, just for a moment OK?)

I did a search for "uncanny valley", and although it has been mentioned a few times on the site nothing showed up in the Poser forums.

For those not familiar with the idea a quick search should explain all, but in principle it goes like this...

With the advance of digital soft / hardware it has become possible to generate images that look very like humans. Problem is that the closer you get to realism, they seem worse instead of better - until someday you finally climb up the other side of the "valley" and have an acceptable photorealistic image.

So those folks using Poser 4 are standing safely on the "non-realistic" side of the valley, and those who push Poser 5/6 to it's limits can often just find themselves slap bang in the middle of the "valley". Which in it's "uncanny" way makes P4 better than P6 - because all of the new bell's and whistles don't ensure a more pleasing result.
Until the node magicians can turn out an all-purpose all-lighting procedural skin (and all the rest) the climb up the far side still goes on.

Now maybe Poser 7 will be the "killer" app that turns things around - though I'm not betting on that.

Rô

Two things made Poser 4 a dreadful program to work with: the awful library system and the terrible material editor. The fact that there was no way to copy material settings from one object to another was really unbelievable.

I got round it by never touching the P4 materials editor and doing all the materials and textures in Bryce, but there was no escaping the dreadful non-hierarchical library.

Poser 4 - not missed at all. Yes, you could do fun things with it, but it was really badly designed as a program.

Quote - (back on topic, just for a moment OK?)

I did a search for "uncanny valley", and although it has been mentioned a few times on the site nothing showed up in the Poser forums.

For those not familiar with the idea a quick search should explain all, but in principle it goes like this...

With the advance of digital soft / hardware it has become possible to generate images that look very like humans. Problem is that the closer you get to realism, they seem worse instead of better - until someday you finally climb up the other side of the "valley" and have an acceptable photorealistic image.

So those folks using Poser 4 are standing safely on the "non-realistic" side of the valley, and those who push Poser 5/6 to it's limits can often just find themselves slap bang in the middle of the "valley". Which in it's "uncanny" way makes P4 better than P6 - because all of the new bell's and whistles don't ensure a more pleasing result.
Until the node magicians can turn out an all-purpose all-lighting procedural skin (and all the rest) the climb up the far side still goes on.

Now maybe Poser 7 will be the "killer" app that turns things around - though I'm not betting on that.

Rô

interesting concept but that doesnt make P4 better than p6.

p6 has the p4 render engine

p6 has a simple materials tab that (from what i am told) is very similar to p4

P6 does not make you produce photorealistic image.

there is nothing in p6 that forces you to cross the valley.

People who use p4 are chained to the unrealistic side of the valley

Quote - (back on topic, just for a moment OK?)

Why?

Quote - Now maybe Poser 7 will be the "killer" app that turns things around - though I'm not betting on that.

I'm not betting on that, either.  In fact, I'm not betting on anything.  But I do expect that P7 will be an improvement over P6.......just like P6 was (and is) an improvement over P4.

Perhaps P7 will even be a significant improvement over P6.  But we won't know -- good or bad -- until such time as we actually get a chance to see the new program in operation.

People have made photorealistic renders using p4 I am sure that mec4d did a few, so the argument that only p5 and p6 can do photorealism is flawed.