according to conservative muslims, women not covered head to toe is perversion.

according to conservative christians, women showing leg or belly is pervsersion.

(poor women.)

o, and don't think there aren't people out there who would outlaw our software. 

also, don't think there aren't people out there would outlaw any mention of sexuality or people of the opposite sex at all.

(poor all of us.)

it can happen in any country, any time.  all you can do is always stand your ground. 

if you feel guilty about your use of poser, do puppies or buildings or flowers or something. (very nice art there.)  just don't be surprised when someone complains about that.  (what do you mean with this puppy image?  :lol: ) that's what people do. 

wouldn't doing puppies constitute beastiality in the eyes of the rightous lmao

billy

Quote - wouldn't doing puppies constitute beastiality in the eyes of the rightous lmao

billy

You mean the "righteous" like Jim Bakker or Jimmy Swaggert? Those are certainly pillars of moral perversion and hypocrisy aren't they? They have as much right to pass judgement on how people behave as the people that say that Poser is for Perverts

Perverts need to express themselves as much as anyone else.  Perhaps even more than others.  :)  Poser is for lotsa things.  Some of it's a bit pervy.  People are like that.  Maybe civilization is for perverts.  Or something.  Primates in captivity get a bit weird....  (If there were a :crazy: emoticon at Rosity, I would insert it here.)

Quote - I am worried about touching V3 or any female characters in Poser, that if I do bring her out to make an image, this thought "Pervert", will always hit the mind.

It's exactly that kind of self-censorship that's the worst damage from those labels they try to enforce on people. The limits that puts on the creative process has crippled some from producing anything worthwhile.

I'd much rather depend on your own self-discipline and what you feel was appropriate to express your creative vision than what others deem worthy

Quote - Heh..meant to say the trouble is in the tool-user..;)

I made this up, but it seems so true

Goldsteins's Law - "The second form of information transmitted on any new media is always pornography"

how often have I been wrong?..;)
I remember in the early 80's, someone had made a pinup of Bridgette Bardot, topless on a  stool, done in *'s, #'s, !'s, and .'s.  This was on a minicomputer. People will use anything to make porn..;)

Just goes to show: computers are for perverts. ;p

Hey-ho.

"Othodoxy is my doxie, heterodoxy is someone else's doxie".

Remember, no matter how kinky you are, you'll never be as kinky as the people listening in through the wall.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1297375

G

Quote - But that's no wonder it draws so many perverts, since most of the content offered for it just feeds these perversions.

Well you're always going to get different opinions on that image you just posted since some that think they "shouldn't be tempted by the sins of the flesh" are most likely going to call that image perverted.

Quote - Perversion is in the mind of the beholder.

And those that see nothing wrong with nudity per se are probably going to have more tolerance for it.

Quote - It's a pickle, no doubt about it, the truth is you're just going to have to make up your own damn mind about it.

as the Oracle said in Matrix: Reloaded and it's good advice for lots of situations. I personally liked it but it fits my taste more than a lot of others apparently

Saying "It is art or pornography?" Is like saying "Is it fruit or food?" The question misses the point. The correct answer is either "Yes" or "No" most of the time. A potato is not a fruit. Nightshade berries are not food (for us, anyway). Peaches are both, unless you're allergic. Cat poop is neither, contrary to my dog's perverted notions.

Three of my favorite paintings are unabashed pornography. Caravaggio's Eros Victorious, which is a pederast beaver shot, Courbet's l'Origine du Monde, also a beaver shot, though lacking in the gynecological detail so popular among American "adults," and the Naked Maja, which was painted as a frat house joke ("Flip this, her clothes come off!") for a Spanish aristocrat. Are they art? Of course. Were the artists perverts? What a stupid question. Might as well ask if they were vegetarians, syphilitic, or Democrats.

America is run by vicious Taliban wannabes who think sex should be kept in the back alleys where they can find it when they feel like ripping some gash, and women should be laid and not heard. Bury their stupidity in sexy chicks who laugh at their shrivelled wee-wees! Like a penis, only smaller!

M

Quote - The only 'bad name' I know of for Poser stems around a perception that it is 'clip art' work - which is true of a lot of renders. That one came up a lot on the Carrara boards and lists around when Daz bought Eovia.

Even that I would say is not a general perception, but something detractors to 3D claim, and modelers who resent the greater commercial viability of companies like Daz resent.

It also seems to be a frequent topic in the artzone chat. That chat room is a good place to go if you want to learn how much the modelers making the content sold here and at daz dislike the people buying their work. The way they speak of us is often very rude and insulting...

Sounds a bit like biting the hand that feeds you. Without Poser users would they be able to continue to make as much money?

amen to XFX3d. :)

Always got me... what business the prude have in trying forcefully to impose they own "morality" on all the others (who have their own, thank you very much).

And it is more than often a case of "do what i say, not what i do".

If nudity and sex are so bad... how come the prude still exist?
They should be extinct a looooooooooooooong time ago.

They are (unfortunately for the rest of us who have no issue with nudity and sex) still here...
So i guess they do have sex, at least enough to continue the prude species. :(

If they don't like nudity and sex... fine with me.
But what is NOT fine is their trying to impose their particular beliefs on all the people who don't share them - they have their own, whatever they are, thank you very much.

Anyway... there will always be someone to tell someone else what to do and what to think.
And you know what?

I'll do just that  ;) and say:

Follow your own heart/mind/faith/whatever, and let people talk.
Listening to fools' advice is not the best way to evolve. ;)
One cannot make all fools happy.

Take care, all! :)
Jean-Luc :D

hmmm.  if a pervert is one who works in poser, then I must be a lesbian because I do a lot of nude females.   (female here)

NOT!

Quote - Just posted this in the gallery...  Pervy or Female Form Appreciation?  Nude yet not naughty or overtly sexual...  Just nakedness and well (or over) developed female frontal attributes...  See, I'm torn over whether stuff like this is porn or just artistic nudity...  That's why I deleted the nude images in my gallery the day before this topic was started.  Sigh...

G

The poor dear must suffer terribly from lower back pain, my heart goes out to her!
David P, Hoadley

computers? heh..DVD, CD, Videotape, mpg, Kinopticons, 8mm, 16mm, etc.. I thought this gem up in the 70's..;) no problem, must having fun...;)

Quote - Saying "It is art or pornography?" Is like saying "Is it fruit or food?" The question misses the point. The correct answer is either "Yes" or "No" most of the time. A potato is not a fruit. Nightshade berries are not food (for us, anyway). Peaches are both, unless you're allergic. Cat poop is neither, contrary to my dog's perverted notions.

Three of my favorite paintings are unabashed pornography. Caravaggio's Eros Victorious, which is a pederast beaver shot, Courbet's l'Origine du Monde, also a beaver shot, though lacking in the gynecological detail so popular among American "adults," and the Naked Maja, which was painted as a frat house joke ("Flip this, her clothes come off!") for a Spanish aristocrat. Are they art? Of course. Were the artists perverts? What a stupid question. Might as well ask if they were vegetarians, syphilitic, or Democrats.

America is run by vicious Taliban wannabes who think sex should be kept in the back alleys where they can find it when they feel like ripping some gash, and women should be laid and not heard. Bury their stupidity in sexy chicks who laugh at their shrivelled wee-wees! Like a penis, only smaller!

M

Only a little correction from the pedantic in me. "The Naked Maja" was a portrait of Goya's lover at the time (Pepita Tudó, a dancer), make intentionally very similar to "The Clothed Maja" a portrait of the Duchess of Alba, Goya's former employer (and probably lover). Nothing of the like that you say.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=240894

Joins the Pervert Club.... Do i get any freebies now ?????????

lol

Attached Link: content offered for it just feeds these perversions

Quote - Joins the Pervert Club.... Do i get any freebies now ?????????

lol

If you'd like, I can send you a copy of the Evelyn Hybrid (Eve 4's genitally endowed body with Vicky 2's head).   Just send me an email: dph@013.net.il
As for preversions, I believe that it was Oscar Wilde who said: "I can resist everything except temptation."  And then again: "Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.  Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same. "
However, I think the whole issue is best summed up by Albert Camus: "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."
David P. Hoadley

Quote - Whenever I hear garbage like that I always point to the church....ummm sixteen or sixteenth chapel or whatever its called (don't feel like looking it up sorry) but the one with the paintings on the ceiling, little naked babies

Pop Quiz: Where is the Sixteenth Chapel located? A) Italy B) France C) Next to the Seventeenth Chapel, of course. D) D00d - is this a trick question? E) Only in the Poserverse. G) All of the Above H) None of the Above No peeking at the papers of the kids at the desks next to yours.

Attached Link: Sistine Chapel

Answer: The 'Sixteenth Chapel doesn't exist.  for the Sistine Chapel, the answer is A, and moer specifically, the Vatican in Rome
David P. Hoadley

PS: An interesting aside on Michelangelo's painting of The Sistine Chapel:
"Michelangelo was employed to paint only 12 figures, the Apostles, but when the work was finished there were more than 300. His figures showed the creation, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Great Flood. The sketches are very precious and curious documents. Michelangelo used male models, even for the females, because female models were rare and more expensive."

Didn't Michaelangelo do another fresco that was later 'pruded up' with little painted strips of draping cloth to hide the nudity?  How pathetic is that?

God create man in his image - and then he made them cover it up?  Ever notice that the Judeo-Christian god is never portrayed in the buff?  Must be 'FRIGID' up there in heaven... ;D

Quote - Didn't Michaelangelo do another fresco that was later 'pruded up' with little painted strips of draping cloth to hide the nudity?  How pathetic is that?

God create man in his image - and then he made them cover it up?  Ever notice that the Judeo-Christian god is never portrayed in the buff?  Must be 'FRIGID' up there in heaven... ;D

Yes, the 'Last Judgement.'
"...The Last Judgment was an object of a heavy dispute between Cardinal Carafa and Michelangelo: the artist was accused of immorality and intolerable obscenity, having depicted naked figures, with genitals in evidence, so a censorship campaign (known as the "Fig-Leaf Campaign") was organized by Carafa and Monsignor Sernini (Mantua's ambassador) to remove the frescoes. When the Pope's own Master of Ceremonies, Biagio da Cesena, said "it was mostly disgraceful that in so sacred a place there should have been depicted all those nude figures, exposing themselves so shamefully, and that it was no work for a papal chapel but rather for the public baths and taverns,"
(excerpted from the Wikpedia article posted above)
DPH

Nice pic Gman - she has kind of a Lynda carter thing going there. What is the purpose of deleting all your nude images if you know that at some point you're just going to "wobble" the other way again? "I'm torn over whether stuff like this is porn or just artistic nudity..." You will always find someone who will take either side of that question - for some it's just an opinion, for others, it's a deep seated conviction worth killing over. You have to decide for yourself or accept that someone else has a better handle on the truth than you do and take their position. If it makes you feel bad then don't do it or, do some heavy thinking on why it makes you feel that way, and whether that feeling is really appropriate. If you took a poll and got 99% voting "artistic," I somehow doubt that the external validation would resolve what is essentially an internal conflict. To me, it's neither art nor porn, it's just a nice picture - though the breast is a bit too shiny for my taste :-) Trying to place some profound moral meaning on a simple picture of a naked woman, is IMO not the most productive exercise in a world where we should all have much bigger things to worry about. Such images have existed for all of human history and I see no evidence that they have been the cause of or the cure for war, poverty, geoncide, famine, racism or any of the other true scourges of mankind.

Continuing the interesting facts about the Cistine Chapel... the painting was actually done for no money, as penance. Mechlangelo had taken on a comission for a papl tomb, and then gone off and gambled the money, without procuring the materials needed for the sepulchre. When the pope died a little sooner than expected, Michelangelo wasnt' able to raise the funds again in time to get everything sorted. He fled the area for a while, but got tracked down, and was made to paint the Chapel by way of recompense to the Vatican.

Fun, eh?

jonthecelt

Attached Link: http://www.sarcasmsociety.com/

Once in a while (actually, it happens quite often) one runs across a coworker, acquaintance, or total stranger who uses words without knowing what they actually mean. For example, one time I had a supervisor who laughed at a coworker who was not familiar with the frescos of the Sistine Chapel. In breaking the news to this coworker, he said, "How can you not know what the Sixteenth Chapel is?". At first I couldn't believe my ears, but I composed myself, and tried to confirm what my ears had heard. So I asked him to repeat the name of the fresco. This time he deliberately pronounced each syllable slowly so that I could really learn; "It's the Sixteenth Chapel", he said.

Now what does the above story have to do with irony, you ask? Well, read the How to Recognize Irony tutorial to understand.

From the Sarcasm Society.  Their motto:

Sarcasm Society

We Would Love to Hear What You Think

BTW - the word "sarcasm" derives from two Greek words -- and it literally means "to tear flesh".

Sarcasm I now see to be, in general, the language of the devil; for which reason I have long since as good as renounced it. - Thomas Carlyle

The satirist is prevented by repulsion from gaining a better knowledge of the world he is attracted to, yet he is forced by attraction to concern himself with the world that repels him. - Italo Calvino

That last quotation explains a lot about certain types of forum activity, methinks.

What was the topic again.......I forget............?

Just to refresh your memory the topic was Perversion, maybe sarcasm fits in that category since it's a perversion of language to mean the opposite of what you're saying, but the topic was more perversion as it applied to Poser.

I suppose I could do an image that was sarcastic and showed things the opposite of what they're supposed to mean if I get enough time to spare from all my other projects that are due.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1298075

Quote - Perversity is in the mind of the beholder

Sheila

Bravo! and...follow the logic...if Poser is for perverts then so it must be that all 3d software is too, and then so too is Photoshop and Painter, and then so too must be all of Cinema, and then so too must be all of Music, and then there's the Internet, that too must be for perverts. And really, the invention of zippers on clothing must have been thought up by a pervert. And lets face it, since we and all our physicality and desires were created by God then he himself is a pervert! (Aside to to any Muslims, not your god, I dont want to be jihaded like the poor Pope last week!)

The world is full of perverts, the question is who is getting hurt by them?  In this case you, for they slander and IF at the work place just caused harrassment.  Now, who is the pervert?

On the subject of poser=perverts, I'd like to say that I've actually been trying hard to steer clear of using nudity in my pieces, though lately I've been debating whether to do my first nude.

When I first started using Poser a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I showed my friend, a big computer geek and he said, "oooh, do you have some poser porn?" though I didn't have any nudity, I showed him a girl playing a violin.  And up to this day I've avoided nude works because I always felt, "Will people see the boobs, or will people see the story?"

Along those lines, I think an issue a lot of people have with poser, is that people focus a lot on the technicality of the work.  Good lighting, good pose, good texturing.  As such, there's a myriad of pin-up images out there to show these off and not enough depth, or story.  What is she doing there, what is she thinking, what is she feeling?

Those are just my thoughts on the whole debate.

Quote - Just to refresh your memory the topic was Perversion, maybe sarcasm fits in that category since it's a perversion of language to mean the opposite of what you're saying, but the topic was more perversion as it applied to Poser.

Ahhhh.....I see.  Thanks for making that clear.  I thought that the topic was the sixteenth chapel........

Perversion is to take something that's legitimately intended for a certain use, and then to mis-apply it by using for another, unintended (wrong) purpose.

Poser is an inanimate, neutral tool like any other tool.

Poser is for Perverts.....hmmm....someone makes a value judgement and their reasoning is incorrect. ill assume they say this because some people use Poser for images with nudity and/or sexual content. The fact that youcanuse Poser to make these does not lead to the conclusion named. It is theintentof the user that matters. Any art mediumcan` be used for any purpose. But the medium can not be judged fairly by the end result.

 They also are making a judgement on what they consider perverse.  Is it nudity? Scantily clad women? Or is it sexual situations?

 Nudity in itself is not perverted. Artists have celebrated the beauty and grace of the female form...in many stages of dress as well as nude for thousands of years. Sexual situations...they have an arguement according to their morals or beliefs. personally I would give them right to their beliefs...as long as they didnt try to impress them on me. Common useage perversion would tend to indicate a sexual act that is deemed by the majority or mainstream to be abnormal.

 I wouldnt worry about it too much

dimeolas

Submitted for your approval - or whatever Serling used to say - an interesting essay on art vs. pornography - even mentions that Caravaggio dude amongst others and a discussion at the Tate so it must be legit. Heed the warning at the top as there are links to art that might be porn or porn that might be art? I'm off to see what these "Vienna Actionist Films" are all about. "Why the graphic sex in Destricted is more than porn." www.slate.com/id/2150338/?nav=ais

lol tell them it takes a prevert to know a pervert. When I was young in art and photography school we always see nudes. Event the Master of age have done nudes, so what does that make us all???

plus the ones calling you that probly sneak off the the stripclubs when nobody is looking

I worked long and hard (no pun there) to be a pervert long before I found poser, now I just dont have to gawk around at different sites to find stuff, I can make it at home! hehe

It's lke having a gourmet cookbook for your imagination.

Oh, I do other art too....sometimes...

I am so sick of judgemental people. My daughter is 23, and she says my pin-ups defile females. Well, I am just thrilled to be able to make the pictures. It took me awhile to get the hang of Poser and at first I could not get clothes on Vicky. So I made nudes. Tuff poopoo if people don't like it.

If you call someone who creates nude humans a pervert, you are insulting god.

or at least your parents..;)

Robo2010, I have been using Poser for a long time now and have even had it installed on my daughters computer when she was 12(I did however remove all of the nude figures until she was old enough to view them as art and not simply nude people). I believe that simply having the program doesn't make anyone a pervert. It comes down to how you are using it and the type of images or animations you intend to create. In my own opinion Poser is for the creation of art and it is up to the individuals themselves to determine what they classify as art and what they consider perversion. I only know of my own.

I fail to find any ART on this site just people dressing up dolls with nothing better to do in life. So So Sad.

@username-block-to-go theres things worse than that, dont you think? all those zombies zigzaggin tv-channels and munchin delivery pizzas, this is sad! we "doll-dressers" are doing pretty well compared to that, aint i right? Andi

there´s things worse than that, don´t you think? all those zombies zigzaggin´ tv-channels and munchin´ delivery pizzas, this is sad! we "doll-dressers" are doing pretty well compared to that, ain´t i right?

Yes you are so right about the abve shoot them all. Now go back to your Doll Dressing and play nice.

Don't reply to him, it's Karen's ex again, he's only here to stir up sh*t.

"Yes you are so right about the abve shoot them all. Now go back to your Doll Dressing and play nice." well, i most likely will, i spose. and how about you? what are you going to do when all this spitting and biting is done? Andi

Don't reply to him, it's Karen's ex again, he's only here to stir up sh*t.

STILL LOOKING FOR THE ART   :lol:

what are you going to do when all this spitting and biting is done?

I don't dress up DOLLS and pretend to be an artist. I do lots of things get off your pc's see what reality is like.

what kind of things? i rather stay next to my pc because seeing reality usually drives me mad (i start spitting and biting etc.) Andi