Indeed.
Koji2 and James2 have a major problem. When you use the AGE morph on either of them, the neck bulges out. I sent in a ticket at CP, but haven't had a reponse yet, but previously added to Mizrael's thread from the 13th of September, then added my own thread. Supposedly John, aka ratcloset, was going to be sure our concerns were addressed. Perhaps the fix did not make the new CR2, but its not fixed yet.

This entire issue about Koji 1 not having faceroom support and the fact it was promised fits in with my usual rant about software companies not fixing bugs in programs, then releasing the new version, which you have to buy of course, which fixes some of the bugs. It seems to me they should be honoring their product by fixing the one that was broken. Maybe I don;t want to buy the new version. So that means I'm stuck with a product that I paid my good money on that is broke, and is basically obsolete once the new version takes over.

That is just wrong...and people that bring it up a reslammed and banned...that's just as wrong as well. And where else to discuss these issues than a forum that is about the products in question?

OK..shut up the rants and keep letting merchants and developers release crap that doesn't meet their marketing hype or functionality as advertised.

Yes it's rather interesting how people who are NOT placing their tongues where the sun don't shine are banned or in other ways silenced (threads elsewhere suddenly deleted and so on)

Koji1 is an example of FALSE ADVERTIZING - he was PROMISED with upcoming face room support!

And Koji2 is a whole other character, NOT a fix. For one thing, I can't use my Koji1 textures on this new guy, which in some ways makes him useless. I also happened to prefer Koji1's face.. but no, we're given a "fix" with a new character in hope that we'll shut up and forget about the blunder that was the first Koji (and I'm not even going into the whole FUBAR'ed thing with the full body morphs.. WHY wasn't the Japanese version EVER released to the rest of us?!)

And then the new G2 characters turn out to have major flaws as well. Oh, as a whole, they're nice characters, I like them.. but they're NOT FINISHED either.

AAnd the fact that there's a fix out now - AFTER they went public, despite the fact that all the Passport Members were free beta testers for quite a while first... well.... >_<

Before this thread gets locked.... :closedeyes:

I must concur here.  This is a POSER forum - where we should be able to discuss POSER (good or bad).  Mizrael maybe shouldn't be airing his personal relationship with the company that owns Poser, but the original problem remains - and it isn't just about 'forum banning' and lawsuits.  As I stated, FaceRoom support for Koji1 was indeed mentioned.  And a year later, no support.  This isn't just a problem for a couple of troublemakers - this involves every Poser user who purchased Koji (myself included among them).

Does anyone have possibly an email where e-frontier mentioned FaceRoom support for Koji1?  I'll look in my emails, but that would nail the coffin lid shut tightly, wouldn't it.

Robert

I sent in a ticket at CP, but haven't had a reponse yet, but previously added to Mizrael's thread from the 13th of September, then added my own thread.

Unfortunately the issue with the neck is a bit more tricky so we have to again correlate the face room data. If you'll notice, this only happens with certain morphs. There will be an update asap.

posted today in your thread concerning the faceroom problem.

I don't use either of those figures, however, I'm a believer in not putting something up for sale until it works properly.  I don't believe in selling something that only 1/2 works with promises of fixes and upgrades "soon".  I know I certainly wouldn't knowingly buy something that had that condition attached to it.

So IMHO those figures shouldn't have been released until they were in 100% working order, and if they couldn't provide an update to fix the issue within a "reasonable time" (IE: a few months), the figures should have been pulled.

The attached image is G2 James with no morphs. All I did was lower the arms. I've tried the morphs sold at RDNA and I must say, any problems these figures have is greatly exagerated.

Stuff like this really make me start loosing interest in a program and hobby I enjoyed when it was for fun and people made stuff with pride. That isn't the case any longer.

EF, or should I say, Curious Labs, did the same thing with Poser 5. It was a mess when released.
They did a pretty good job of fixing the glaring issues, but , if my memory is correct, it took 3 service releases and a lot of teeth gnashing. I know I pitched a pretty big bitch about it.  Renderosity was the soapbox for most of the Poser 5 problems. If not for being able to air it out here, I doubt a lot of the problems would have ever gotten fixed.
Being able to state your opinion and to point out problems is a neccessity to this community. The thing is to keep it clean and legal....but to make sure the issues are brought forth.

that's great news...just went over and saw the reply...thanks.
Now we know its being worked on, at least.

Quote - I sent in a ticket at CP, but haven't had a reponse yet, but previously added to Mizrael's thread from the 13th of September, then added my own thread.

Unfortunately the issue with the neck is a bit more tricky so we have to again correlate the face room data. If you'll notice, this only happens with certain morphs. There will be an update asap.

posted today in your thread concerning the faceroom problem.

Quote - Before this thread gets locked.... :closedeyes:

I must concur here.  This is a POSER forum - where we should be able to discuss POSER (good or bad). 

These threads should not be locked. This is a Poser firum by the way. The problems discussed do relate to Poser but one of the reasons given for locking the threads was they weren't Renderosity related.

Quote - OK folks, I think we've said all that needs to be said. Again, this is not Renderosity-related,

Now, when does things we discuse pretaining to Poser have to be only Renderosity related?

I bought koji under false advertising. I took a chance that he would have had proper Jp's after the Miki JP Joke. But, not true. Then the G2's were to be the fix. So far, another joke.

Now thread locks, bannings and deleted threads are happening. And, your surprised?

The majority of users are to blame. Any time some of us mentioned these problems. They show up in great masses with pitchforks and torches to put us down. To say we are just complaining to complain. That we go out of our way to make the figures look bad. We should be grateful for the worst built figures I have ever payed for. Oh and don't forget that its the users that are finding the fixes other wise I don't think they would be done.

You can blame me too. I gave up on saying anything. I got tired of the personal flames.

All I wanted were the original figures FIXED and given what I payed for. Just think how much cheeper it would have been to have fixed those original figure than to build new different ones. Not to mention the markets are established for the continuation of those figures. Look at the long run of V3. I bet Miki could have done the same if she had ben fixed or had a good chance. As it is, Miki is pretty much a waist of time to try to animate.

Unfortunately, if these threads keep getting shut down, nobody is going to know and this new  merchant attatude is going to grow. Can't blame them trying to get away with it. We are encouraging them to do so.

At the risk of even more personal attacks and trollings I have to step in here publically and state that every thread I've started on this subject has been locked after personal request by myself to the modrators to step in. I can only repeat myself so many times against personal attacks and name calling and I get fed up as would anyone.

I would ask that everyone here blaming the mods and Renderosity staff to stop. Go ahead and blame me. I'm getting used to benig the villan. I don't like it, but I've made my bed and I will lie in it. My refund cost me much more than I'm getting back. In things more valuable than money like trust, respect, friends and self respect.

All this does is reinforce my reasons for staying with Pro Pack Posette and Dork.  I prefer the headaches I know to the headaches I don't know.
David P. Hoadley

But once you get used to them, they are the new headaches that you know.... ;D

Think of it as stepping up from beer to sake (oooh, that stuff will give you hangovers to remember - if you could only remember how you got the hangover).

Robert

Bravo Mizrael, but be sure that you have more than just one stone for your sling.  David only faced down ONE Philistine, but you seem to have to face a whole slew of them.  Your detractors, like Islamic Jihadists, just weem to keep crawling out of the woodwork.  You deal with one, and suddenly you've got ten more barking at your heels.

"Assenting to the “self-evident truth” maintained in the American Declaration of Independence, “that all men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights — among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” I shall strenuously contend for the immediate enfranchisement of our slave population. In Park-street Church, on the Fourth of July, 1829, in an address on slavery, I unreflectingly assented to the popluar but pernicious doctrine of gradual abolition. I seize this opportunity to make a full and unequivocal recantation, and thus publicly to ask pardon of my God, of my country, and of my brethren the poor slaves, for having uttered a sentiment so full of timidity, injustice and absurdity. A similar recantation, from my pen, was published in the Genius of Universal Emancipation at Baltimore, in September, 1829. My consicence in now satisfied. I am aware, that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire, to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hand of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; — but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD.

— William Lloyd Garrison, "To the Public", The Liberator, January 1, 1831

Excerpted from the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Liberator.  Somehow it seems appropriate at the moment.

I was speaking in general terms.

How do you know you will get a headache from something, if you don't use it.

Daz figures have nothing to worry about in competition.

As dphoadley eloquently quoted, these things should be heard - but they should remain civil. And as you say, Mizrael, stay clear of ad hominem attacks.  I joined this and the other discussion because I noticed the transgression (which had slipped my mind from other occupations).  To be ostricized for doing what is right and telling the truth is never a good thing.  Are these not true, the circumstances that led to this outrage?  Instead of laying out accusations, I provided evidence (above).  And if that evidence is true then the recourses taken are just.

The series of events experienced seems beyond reprise.  I cannot for any reason understand how they could release updates and new figures, but forget other obligations (more than likely hoping that everyone else had forgotten them likewise).  If they mean to abandon them, they should make it known - then we can get on with other things.

Robert

My Grandma used to say, "the truth hurts, and nobody likes the truth." That seems to be the case on many a poser forum. If one has nothing to hide then why delete, ban or destroy a member or customer when an issue, based by facts and not on a mindless rant, are brought forth?

To me this is shameful and borderlines on the tactics a coward or one that does not want to own up to their responsibilities. It is irresponsible to release a product that does not work as described and then move heaven and earth to cover it up by blackballing their customers or members. But that seems to be the way corporations are working today. Hype a product about all its wonders and in the end the consumer ends up with gift-wrapped rubbish. I am very pleased that members have spoken out about faulty products. This saved me, and others, the pain and hassle of purchasing items that are not worth a shite. And as I said to shut these people up is cowardice pure and simple. If you, Mr. Corporate megalomaniac, are big enough to take our money then you should have the nads to admit you’re wrong and fix your SNAFUs.  

Guys,

As Mizrael stated above, there were two reasons to lock the threads.

1. He asked for this to be done.
2. Discussion of a potential legal case (which doesn't even involve Renderosity) is not appropriate for a topic in this forum.

I'm perfectly happy for this thread to talk about G2 or G1 figures and their problems, faults, fixes, or what-have-you, as long as we're talking about the issues, not the people in the discussion.

Cheers :o)

Yes Ma'am!  As you wish, so shall it be!
DPH

you're perfectly happy...thats ok then........unbelievable...

billy

Quote - All this does is reinforce my reasons for staying with Pro Pack Posette and Dork.  I prefer the headaches I know to the headaches I don't know.
David P. Hoadley

That's sort of the same reason I stick with V3 and M3.  I have characters I created
out of them that I like, I know their capabilities and limitations, and they do everything
that any of the Poser characters can do, and a lot more.  I play around with other
characters from time to time, but eventually I end up going with the V3 and M3 characters
as I am most comfortable with them because frankly I have yet to find any that are any better.

I'm surprised to know that quite a few people actually bought G2.  The ad images of G2 at ContentParadise show some weird, inorganic looks of their muscular morphs (on the Afro male's lats, shoulders and chest, to be exact).   Plus, the Koji G2 version features limited variety of face morphs that mostly look like Asian villains -- there are much better-looking Asian male morphs that could have been made.  

And yes, the original James looks better than G2 James.

BTW, M3 still has the inorganic looks around the shoulder and armpit area.  

I find that David3 (with its morph packs) and Michael 2 are the two most realistic-looking capable Poser male figures.    They have inorganic-looking parts or jagged joint areas only in extreme poses.

I love trying new things all the time, but ALWAYS shop with "CAVEAT EMPTOR" carved on a big board to remind me to 'buyer beware' about untried things with promises attached.  When Miki came out, I thought she was either A) the ugliest poser chacter ever, or B) They did the worst ad campaign ever, with the worst renders of a character ever.

It was mostly B.  Then the talk about Miki's 'ELBOWS FROM HELL--DUN-DUN-DAHHHH!" (yes, replete with dramatic music, LOL! :lol:  I did research and found out: Miki's arms do NOT bend right without massive deformations in the elbows.  I held off buying anything more from EF-CP after that until I saw how they handled that mess.

I already had Terai Yuki (which is a primo character, no problems with HER at all!) and waited and saw what happened later.

I work in sales, among other things, and I know how to treat customers.  EFCP, in my PROFESSIONAL opinion violated the trust between Merchant and Buyer on so many different levels, it appalled and sickened me.  They alienated me as a customer forever.

I recently downloaded G2 James and he was....well....a massive disappointment to me. Hit with an old morph and he turns into a mutant old bullfrog!!?? @__@;;  Holy Cow.  I was surprised,

AND like how I feel about Ef-CP--disappointed. I await to see if they will fix this, or make vacous promises like a politician trying for re-election.

The weird, inorganic muscular morphs I'm talking about is actually another product called:  "G2 Male: Ultimate Body Morphs" sold at CP.

Attached links:  http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/g2_male_ultimate_body_morphs_product_22257

while the villainous G2 Koji faces are also of another product called: "Koji G2 - Ultimate Head Morphs"

http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/koji_g2_ultimate_head_morphs_product_22254

which should be renamed as: "Koji G2 - Villainous Head Morphs Pack"

I wasn't really blaming Karen for locked threads, I meant more the way things are being handled over at CP. There is a lot of flaming here to those that speak up. Guess that's why it's rare anything gets done.

I wonder what the females are going to look like. Are they going to work before they are released or is this going to be the way of the new generations by eF/CP. Well, they did say the truth, we will be amazed at the new generation figures. The way of the future for figure development. Funny how my interpretation is the opposite of thiers and the future looks very bleak.

I don't understand how a company can put out solid sofware and not have the same attitude creating thier figures. Does eF even develope these figures or is it done by CP/CL and eF only work on the software. Isn't all of this a bit odd for a Japanesse owned company? eF had a very good reputation around the world. What happened?

The only good news is I don't have to spend any money on these new figures. I don't have much use for them. I need figures that can be adjusted/morped to my needs and able to animate with ease. I will save my money and buy V4/M4 when they are realeased and chalk the G2 figures as a lost learning experience.

If you have attempted in good faith to discuss the issue with the manufacturer and get the issue adressed.....and they do not thus address such issue.....and fix the problem......you have recourse to legal remedy under various statutes. I would also suggest contacting the Attorney generals office and filing a complaint.....and depending upon the policies of your credit card company...if` you paid with your card.....you may be covered by a buyer protection plan. The vendor has a legal responsibility to deliver goods as advertised. Gather any posts or emails detailing or mentioning known issues, any promises to fix......

 persoanlly I wont do business at CP. They have no clue about providing customer service. Sadly some companies wont deliver what they promise unless a good lawyer forces them to. You have to consider what is most important to these sites...making a buck and looking good....or the art and the artists.....? I manage in retail, have for years. You give your customer what you advertise....you make them happy. If you make a mistake...and it will happen...you acknowledge it honestly and you make it good.

d

"You give your customer what you advertise....you make them happy. If you make a mistake...and it will happen...you acknowledge it honestly and you make it good."

..and we'd usually give the customer a "bonus" for their trouble too.  The idea is not only do you correct the problem,  you actually leave the customer thinking about that solution rather than their original problem.  Toss 'em a £10 voucher redeemable at your store with a very "sincere" apology and they'll be telling their friends and neighbours what a nice bunch of people you are rather than advising them to stay away because you are all in league with Satan :¬)

I never thought the CP-EF was "because you are all in league with Satan " before....but I guess that recalls the ol' adage: :"The devil is in the details!"  What's really sad-- is that there are some really conscientious and hard working people are at EF, busting their humps for the Poser community and some jerks in their higher-ups and marketing departments are running the company into the dirt with their goofy, ham-handed policies!

It is just frustrating to tar them all with the same brush, when not all of them are to blame.

Even so....the company screwed up this mess, no matter how many good people work there.