I have had a DVD Burner on my computer since they were value priced enough to afford one, it si a good investment and not just for watching movies ( which I will not do on my computer) but for sheer size of storage...right now I can get my whole runtime on 2 of them instead of 12 CD's.

But I feel that this will also stop some from buying it...

I believe that DVD is a good investment however, I've already ordered my new system and a DVD combo drive was not in the original budget hence will not have one installed. I wasn't going to have a floppy installed either but since a lot of raid drivers and SATA drivers still come on floppys I had one installed. I haven't had need for a floppy in a long time.

But hey what do these corps care anyway. They don't give a flyin' f**k if you have the funds to update your gear anyway. They are like alot of others who think everyone just has cash buried in the back yard in coffee cans.

Thanks for the info though!! Cheers!

here's a thought...buy the DVD drive now instead of P7. DVD burners are now under $40, so its not a big investment.
Buy P7 when they have the first sale a week after release for $79.99 .. 

You will miss out on the spy stuff and the 6 months free passport, but all will be well.

yeah I do not have a floppy :)

I hope they have improved the hair room handeling of hair on other mesh than heads.  I have written them about this a couple of times.
Some kind of "skullcaps" for whole animals for example. But I guess that isn't doable.   :sad:

Couldn`t a thing like a bodysuit be made for an animal to use as an animal  "skullcap"?

Anyone recall the parable of the workers in the vineyard?

...reaches for another arrow...

I believe the word to describe how you are feelinbg is known as,,,Hypocisy?

I think Ill-Sentiment toward E-Frontier's "Gener'osity", should be leaving you a little more respect for those of whom kept the fire alive when you were'nt anywhere from a Hard Place, and what that really means to someone that has experienced Poser since purchasing stock from Metacreations, to afford a copy of Poser 3, while in college! 

And however that is what you are thinking you're worth by asking for any discount on a any newer version of Poser, form any previous version, from the get go!

I think it is not fair for the P6 owners or even to P4-P5 owners who paid the real price for their version but it doesn't stop me from sleeping.

In any case, I am very satisfied with Poser 6 and I will not buy Poser 7 unless there is something in it that makes it REALLY worth the expense. I probably will wait for Poser 10 if I'm still alive by that time. I have a software that is a version 7 and that I had for 6-7 years. That software is now at version 17-18 or something like that but I never upgraded after version 7 because I am very satisfied with this one. I feel the same way about Poser.

And if e-Frontier ever comes up with a "new" Poser that would not use my old content... then I'm stuck for life on Poser 6!!!

Well from what I have read so far about P7...The new thing about it  is a bunch of New models....I haven't seen anything about any improvements on the program it self. If that's the case then there's no reason for me to buy P7.....I rather get Vue 6 instead then.....

So what makes P7 better then p6???

Well, I got Poser 3 and 5 for next to nothing (5 was free, but 3 cost me the price of a magazine. Pity I never saw one with 4 on it..the money I coulda saved...:| )

While it's the business of art, it's still a business. Beleive me, pricing strategy was looked at, and Poser set a policy to maximize their profits.You can't always please everyone, just as many as is feasible. While it's not 'fair ' (this is real life, folks, who said anything about fair?..;), I can sympathize; Bryce 5 was free about the same time. Stings, but now, like Stacy Jones, I got 2..;)

Jevans69 has had a good point in one of these threads about writing software. For those of us that go back to the introduction of Poser 5 (what a screaming match that was prior to release; the forum ran red with blood and gore for people wanting it right now, not a second later, and then when it came out, the same people were screaming because it was buggy..;) Release in haste, repent at lesiure..;) I'd rather wait longer to have something that works, than get it right now and have to wait for SP releases..having used new OS's from Dos 2.1 to XP Pro, you're going to see obsolescence..trust me..

Wow, I can't believe all the complaining about the pricing inrelation to the Poser 4 giveaways. Yes it's a super deal for those. I think the complain that I hear is. They got it for nothing and I didn't. I worry what I can control, not what I can't. I hear that a lot these days.

Hey it is your right to complain.  But barring any accident that can change A Persons life. Life will go on! I would hate to think that I would let something like this destroy my being happy with what I am able to do with Poser 6. I had bought every poser since version 4.

I am happy every day with the things I can produce with Poser. Try painting your scenes, or Making animations with cells. As long as the price remains in a price that I can afford, I will find a way to buy it. .

I have to have a DVD-Rom drive now?

That's probably only because the file size of Poser 7, burned to a disc, will take up more than the 700 MB that as standard CD has.

Considering that P7 requires a minimum of 1 GB, I imagine the  total amount that they'd need to put on a disc to hold all the content, as well as the installation programs, and the other stuff necessary would amount to somewhere between 800-900 MB, meaning they have to put in on a DVD instead of a CD.

Of course, if you  choose the download option, you don't need a DVD drive, but that's up to the individual person and their Internet connection.

I am looking forward to P7.

As for what it will and won't do: I'll reserve judgement on any such matters until I've actually used the program for awhile.  Until then, it's just speculation.  But if I have to speculate -- then I'd lean towards positive speculation.

Assuming the worst before the thing has even begun might be human nature: but I'd rather experience it first.  Then I'll judge.

Oh yeah......the price?  IMO: it's a deal no matter which angle you view it from.  And hey -- if cheaper pricing for diehard P4 users finally brings them over to current times -- then that's all to the good.

Quote - Oh yeah......the price?  IMO: it's a deal no matter which angle you view it from.  .

Is it? All we know at the moment is about the knew content. We know they'll list 6 more reasons but until they tell us what they are how do we know they are worth the $129?

Quote - From the Pre-order FAQ:

BEWARE THE SMALLPRINT!

I recently bought Poser 6. Do I get a free upgrade to Poser 7?

If you purchased Poser 6 (full version or upgrade) on or after October 11, 2006, you will get a FREE electronic download copy of Poser 7 Special Edition when it becomes available.

I recently downloaded Poser 5. Do I get a free upgrade to Poser 7?

No. You first must upgrade to Poser 6 ($129.99) after October 11, 2006 to receive a FREE upgrade to Poser 7.

 

It still looks like the free copy owners of P5 get the upgrade for the same price - but at least they aren't getting a free upgrade to P7.

 

Uhm yes. But on oct. 13th, Krazik said in the Poser 7 forum at CP:

Oct 13 2006, 06:45 AM Post #8

If you guys purchased P6 within 30 days of today (10/12/06). Contact e-frontier support and you get a free upgrade to P7

so...

Quote - > Quote - Oh yeah......the price?  IMO: it's a deal no matter which angle you view it from.  .

Is it? All we know at the moment is about the knew content. We know they'll list 6 more reasons but until they tell us what they are how do we know they are worth the $129?

That's purely an individual decision.  For some people -- you couldn't give it away to them for free.  Poser -- in any form -- doesn't appeal to them; so for those individuals P7 would have no value whatsoever.  While for others: they'd be willing to pay out $1000 or more for the same functionality.

Once again: I choose to be optimistic about such matters.  And if in the end, P7 doesn't live up to my expectations -- which I doubt will happen -- but you never know until you know -- it won't ruin my day. 

It's just an attitude thing.  A choice that I make......like everyone else does.

To answer your question: yes -- it's a fantastic deal.

I'm just frustrated because I paid full price for P6 last year.  its my first venture into the Poser world.   I had to pay full price to get the base code so I could upgrade later.   And now this?  I'd like a better deal on the upgrade, thank you very much, if you're going to give people who only paid 20 dollars for the base code the upgrade price.  

Thats all I have to say.  

Quote - I'm just frustrated because I paid full price for P6 last year.  its my first venture into the Poser world.   I had to pay full price to get the base code so I could upgrade later.   And now this?  I'd like a better deal on the upgrade, thank you very much, if you're going to give people who only paid 20 dollars for the base code the upgrade price.  

Thats all I have to say.  

That's a perfectly legitimate opinion.  Perhaps e-f is listening.

I believe that e-f is wanting to get people to move on.  Their current approach will probably help to achieve that goal.  Or at least that would be my expectation.

Ken should have demanded a palimony agreement first!

Quote - since P6 is bloaty and probably wasn't worth the effort in regards of fixing all these issues, so the meeting ended in 'Let's release a new version'...

Have you even used p6?

I'm not upset at the pricing.  Seems to me they are trying to folks off of P4...so they can stop supporting it.  Makes sense to me. 

P6 by far is my favorite version of the program.  I'm waiting for the new features to be released before I decide to upgrade.  I like the content...but it's not enough anymore. 

Quote -   That's a perfectly legitimate opinion.  Perhaps e-f is listening.

I believe that e-f is wanting to get people to move on.  Their current approach will probably help to achieve that goal.  Or at least that would be my expectation.

It wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the cult of passport they created.   I hate.  Positively Hate. How they made the Poser Tech support forums for passport members only.   Its just... ridiculous.  Yes, Daz has its Platinum Club, but you know, at leasts Daz's tech support is open to everyone and not in a members only forum.  Hmpf.  

E-frontier does things in a manner that divides and isolates the community, and I don't like that kind of schism being created by a corporation.

Quote - It wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the cult of passport they created.   I hate.  Positively Hate. How they made the Poser Tech support forums for passport members only.

Those forums are Content Paradise support forums, if you want tech support from E-Frontier, you have to use the contact form at the EF web site.

Don't feel bad.... I've paid full price for Poser 4, then paid upgrade for Poser 5 (when it was still expensive to upgrade) and then paid for the Poser 6 upgrade.  Still I'm paying just as much as those who did get Poser5 for free and only paid for the Poser 6 update.

Loyal customers don't mean anything anymore these days, it's all about getting new customers.

Quote - Wow, I can't believe all the complaining about the pricing inrelation to the Poser 4 giveaways. Yes it's a super deal for those. I think the complain that I hear is. They got it for nothing and I didn't. I worry what I can control, not what I can't. I hear that a lot these days.

Hey it is your right to complain.  But barring any accident that can change A Persons life. Life will go on! I would hate to think that I would let something like this destroy my being happy with what I am able to do with Poser 6. I had bought every poser since version 4.

I am happy every day with the things I can produce with Poser. Try painting your scenes, or Making animations with cells. As long as the price remains in a price that I can afford, I will find a way to buy it. .

First, people aren't saying they won't buy it, or that the price is outrageous. 

Second, the complaint is NOT that people got Poser 5 for free (it was not Poser 4).  It was an older version of the program, and I think the free giveaway was nice - I'm happy for those who got it.  The complaint is that those who DID get Poser 5 for free are NOW gettting Poser 7 for the same price as people who PAID for Poser 6, and/or 5, and/or 4.  If  eFrontier was offering a slightly better discount for those who already had Poser 6 - or some additional free content, or a coupon for $$$ of at Content Paradise, I don't think you'd be hearing so much annoyance.  Certainly wouldn't be hearing it from me.  I just feel, like many others, that it shows a certain disrespect to long time customers when they give the same "upgrade" price to people who never paid a penny for a program as for those of us who've been buying it for years. - Alisa

The only way to solve this is for all loyal customers  not buy the upgrade.....(the room then when silent) (chirp,chirp)..................:)

I can't say I won't buy the upgrade, or that I will.  HOnestly?  I want better reasons than content and a Passport.   I have no reason for a passport really. : )

at the end of the day it's a business. they're out to make money, as much as they can. to think actually think about loyal customers in the context some mention is silly. the only time they'll consider the loyal paying customer is if they think they won't part with their loyal cash. they charge what they think the market will pay. to think they owe anyone anything is a tad naive. they didn't force you to buy  p6 or anything else. at the end of the day they and most other businesses don't give a rats arse about loyal customers. in fact it's probably one of the reasons they gave away p5....to create more loyal custors that they won't have to give a crap about. we're all just a matter of economics to them.  not ure about anyone else bit i can accept that. 

billy

Quote - For those of us that go back to the introduction of Poser 5 (what a screaming match that was prior to release; the forum ran red with blood and gore for people wanting it right now, not a second later, and then when it came out, the same people were screaming because it was buggy..;) Release in haste, repent at lesiure..;) I'd rather wait longer to have something that works, than get it right now and have to wait for SP releases..having used new OS's from Dos 2.1 to XP Pro, you're going to see obsolescence..trust me..

All I want to know is what are the new advances in P7. Poo poo the content BS I want to know what makes this program tick. I don't see what the blazes is so wrong with that. Content can be had any place but most of us, if not all, want to know what the improvement over P6 this new release will have.

I agree to wait a little longer for something that works is logical saves a lot of headaches. I remember the rumblings for the release of P5. It was like listening to a bunch of spoiled children, " I want, I want, I want it now! Give it to us now!!!" and like spoiled children they were not happy once they got what they wanted. I think the price is okay by me however my money doesn't part from me easily I don't care if it's a damn $129 bucks or not ( Thank my Scottish mother for my thriftiness) I want more intel before I make a jump and if there are no real big changes from P6 then they will not get my 129 quid, bucks, yen, denero, denars, Euros, bones, bread or skins....LOL!!

I've never heard this much whining and boo-hooing over a software title before.

sure, the decent thing to do would be to offer a little more of a discount to those who paid full price for p5 and p6. but as it is, everyone is still getting a discount, unless you've never owned a valid copy of poser before. be glad they're giving that, as they don't have to, and few titles I've ever seen do. Those that do are exactly that - an upgrade. You don't get to keep the previous version of the program on your pc - the upgrade updates all your current files.

example.
i played ultima online for over 5 years and saw several expansions/upgrades to the game in that time. (At least 5 that I can remember). I paid $30 for my first copy, (on sale) and less than six months later another expansion was released. There was no discount for current customers. If I wanted the expansion when it was released I was going to pay $40, like everybody else. All the expansions included the entire game, not just the expansion. Which meant that for new players, they got the previous version of the game along with the new expansion. Should EA Games have refunded their long-time player base the $30 to $40 they paid back when the previous game was new? Not to mention the monthly $10 it cost every month just to play the game.

NO. Why would they?

And every expansion after that ran the same way. New players got the advantage of not having to have paid $40 every time a new version came out, while long-time vet players had to fork out the cash if they wanted to keep playing.

Same for WoW. They're about to release the first expansion to warcraft. It's 40 bucks. It includes the same game that's currently being played, along with the expansion. I've played it for two years (off and on). Should I get a discount on the new expansion?

NO.

Stop whining. And be glad that you don't have to pay the full $250, unless you want the program in hard copy and orginal packaging.

And what is with ALL the criticising of a program that NOBODY has seen the first features of? Where is the logic in that??

"Uli Klumpp, Director of Product Development at e frontier and long-time Poser Product Manager said, “Compared to all previous versions, this release is the most significant one to date. Poser 7 will have a powerful combination of new content, new features and improvements that modernizes and invigorates its foundation. We have also added many features that our long time customers have requested. The bottom line is that both the Poser professional and the casual enthusiast will have more robust and more powerful 3D figure design and animation software. Poser 7 will make their creative workflow more enjoyable.”

Listing the bonus content first doesn't mean it's the best feature, or the #1 feature of p7. All it means is that it's the first new feature they've listed. And since the content specified in that feature is limited to pre-order sales only, it makes sense that they would list it first. Had they waited to announce it in week 7 of the promo, you'd all be complaining that it's unfair because it's LE content and there wasn't enough time to pre-order it.

Because it doesn't matter what a company does, SOMEBODY is ALWAYS going to find SOMETHING to complain about.

My suggestion is, if you really feel like you've been shafted by poser, you always have D|S to use instead ;)

~E.D.

Every now and then you have to whine how else will these company's know what there customers like or dislike....lol

But if you want a real deal do not upgrade now wait until P8 comes out and you might get P7 for free or half price...LOL...

At the risk of getting flamed, I think a lot of people are missing the point here. E-Frontier is a business and they have the right to set whatever pricing structure they want. There is no law stating that they HAVE to even offer an upgrade price. If they decide to give previous software away and  then  allow people to upgrade from it then that is their perrogative (in fact it is down-right generous to new customers). I'm sure new users to Poser are very thankful to E-Frontier that they have been allowed to do this. Why should we be annoyed at their generosity. Like someone said before in this thread its like the parable of the vineyard. People are annoyed at the fact that someone else is getting a better deal than them. Well, consider this, if you had waited for Poser 5 to become free you'd have never had the chance play with it all this time so you have had a couple of years head-start with the software for your money over those poor people who had to wait.

For the record, my impatience to play with the new software has made me buy the Poser upgrades  each time simply because nothing else gave me the ability to pose and generate portrait images for that price. However, this time I am going to wait as I feel Cararra 5.1 gives be far better renders than Poser. With Poser 5 and Carrara 5.1 you have everything you need to create fantastic renders, and use all the superior content for Vicky and Michael at DAZ and renderosity (lets face it the figures supplied with Poser itself are a bit of a joke - if realism is what you are after then forget them!) Even if P7 was free, I'd have to see something very special in it to waste any more disk space and the pictures of the new content is not even mildly rocking my boat!

Good luck to all the new Poser users out there and congratulations on picking up a bargain!

I myself still use P4 Pro Pack,  i tried p6 and really really didn't like it..... Personally,i dont see any use in the extra features as they dont match my style of work (see gallery to get what i mean), i dont go for realism, and i'm working on painting clothe and hair, so i see little point in having the hair/clothe room... so i just use pro pack...

Unless p7 has something spectacularly different, like figures that pose without deformations, or volumetric lighting  (which will only save me the trouble of painting out joints...etc...) i dont think i'd be buying it.... I think i'll wait until its been out a couple of months...been through the traditional upgrade situation...like "quick...a problem we need a new patch.....and again...and again..." lol... if you get me.....

I'd like to see the results rendered myself before i buy, and to be honest...have you seen the two new characters Simon and Sydney?? THEY'RE HIDIOUS!! If not more ugly that Jessi!!! I think i'll stick with V3 and Stephanie thanks...hehe

hugs

Anna

xxxx

For whatever reason, e-f is announcing the P7 content first.  In my book: content runs a distant second in importance to the program's new features.  I'll be looking forward to seeing the features.

But I'm certainly not going to be judging those new features sight-unseen.  In fact, I'm not even going to waste my time by bitterly implying that those new features won't be up to par.  Because frankly: I don't know yet.  And guess what.......neither do you.

In the 3D world, $129 is chicken feed.

I fully expect that I'll enjoy using P7.  In fact, I fully expect that I'll be thrilled with it.

XENOPHONZ tell the truth your part owner of Poser 7.... LOL ... I love P4 pro and I didn't upgrade until P6 ... But P7 has to impress me before I upgrade to that version...I agree with many of you guys New Models does not = Bucks out of my pocket...lol...Waiting to see what's new features it has if any...

Even if the new content was without any value to me......which is an assumption that I won't make ahead of time.......but even if it was: the new features would still be the main thing running away.

The DAZ figures are just as good as they've ever been.  Perhaps better with V4.  So the content aspect is already well covered.  It's the P7 features......far and away. 

My presumption for P7 will fall on the positive side until it's proven otherwise.  I won't start from the standpoint of assuming the negative.

Nope, I don't own ef.  Waiting here, too.  But anticipating the best.

I feel cheated , the Poser 5 that cost me $179 three years ago is now being sold for $20.    That means if I downloaded a free copy of P5 I cant sell it at a massive profit on ebay, what bastards.

:)

seriously, there is often a  tiered upgrade price for prior versions but would anybody be happy with a difference of say $10 bucks ?

I have P5 , I didnt bother with P6 because my work is not the best it can be with P5, so why pay another $120 bucks or so for it to be mediocre but with trickier lighting effects.

I now have Carrara 5, so I need to see if P7 gives me something other than content that might make it worth purchasing, rather than  just render in Carrara.

I find it much more interesting to note that for the same upgrade price, I can get Poser 6 at once , the Poser 7 upgrade when released, the extra P7 casino content pack, a $10 coupon for CP and 6 months CP membership. 

If I had any money to spend :(  it would be a very very good deal.   :)

The PC that cost me around $2500 a mere 3 years ago is now worth perhaps $300 -- if that much.

Computers (and the software that runs on them) are not items which can retain their initial value.  PC's and software do not improve with age.

The saddest, biggest ripoff I've ever seen is shopping in Circuit City/Best Buy/Office Max (insert any retail store) for Computers and Computer Parts.  An utter ripoff and most of it is mediocre or garbage.

I will always buy my PC and it's parts online, such as Shopping at TigerDirect.com.  I do hate waiting but frankly it's worth the wait.

Sorry to derail but it's a travesty in my book.

Quote - The PC that cost me around $2500 a mere 3 years ago is now worth perhaps $300 -- if that much.

Computers (and the software that runs on them) are not items which can retain their initial value.  PC's and software do not improve with age.

about 4 yrs ago i paid 2300 pounds for my toshiba sat 5200-902 i saw it on sale about 6 months ago for around 2000 pounds sterling. the bad thing about is that when the dvd multi drive went kaput i couldn't just put any drive in cos it has a unique shape...i had to spend about 250 pounds to get a replacement. saying that, it's been a great machine for me. not sure what it goes for now

billy

Quote - i saw it on sale about 6 months ago for around 2000 pounds sterling.

Did you mean to say six months later?

Yep.  I'm thinking that it's about time to 'invest' in a new one.  But the thought of the quick decline in value which follows........no matter what type of PC you buy.......is just something that we have to accept if we want to be in the game.

In my humble opinion it's all about money.  If E-Frontier only limited the upgrade to Poser 6 owners, then they wouldn't make as much profit.  Everyone know's how that goes.  Money makes the world turn.  Bottom line is, it's a shame that companies don't really worry about what the consumer wants unless it makes them more money.  I for one pre-ordered it, but that's me I'm a Poser junky.

nope i meant about 6 months ago. saying that i just checked out the toshiba site and it looks like they don't do that model any more lol. sooooooooo i checked out ebay and and whilst they have spares i only saw one 902 with a lower spec up at 700 euros...i;ll keep my eyes out now for a spare dvd combo cos this ones bound to go again.  when i got it it was classed as technologically safe. that held true for the best part of 3 yrs which is good when you see some of the other pc's getting outdated after 6 mnths. i've no doubt tosh do an equiviellent machine but now whn i get a pc i just get it built how i want it. as for lap tops, i'll never spend that kind of money on one again. i'd sooner just get a clunker and put the xtra towards my next desktop lol.

i do remember gettin one laptop and when i went back to the store to get some discs and stuff two weeks later it was selling for half it's price. i wasn't a happy bunny lmao

billy

I count myself as lucky, I finally decided to upgrade to Poser 6 on Oct 3. Low and behold 10 days later i see this add for BUY Poser 6 upgrade and get upgraded to Poser 7 for free. I contacted e-fronteir and since i was still in the 30-day window they allowed me to cancel my order and re-order the new package. So I get P6 now and P7 when its released

I swear the average life of most models today is 1-2 Comdecs (a Comdec is my imaginary time period equal to the interval between bi-annual Comdex computer shows [Vegas, baby!..;], in which they scrap the prvevious product line, and introduce a new one..;)

I'm not too upset mainly because I hope they keep this pricing scheme when I skip the P7 upgrade and go straight to P8.

I bought my last mass produced machine years ago. It was an HP and I hated the fact I could not do any upgrades hardware wise unless it was stuff bought from HP. My present machine was built from parts at newegg and the new machine I'm getting is being built by a small outfit in NY with an excellent resellersratings.com rating of 10. I like being able to replace parts myself without going threw the hell Dell, HP and some of the others PC makers put you through. Not only that buying parts through Newegg can be a lot cheaper than buying them through the big PC houses and you get a better quality part.

I personally assumed that new content was being revealed first because it is of lower importance than the rest of the new stuff.  I expect each new revelation to be more impressive than the previous, or at least I'm hoping so.  I'd rather have new features that let the current figures pose better (as well as less set-up to the dynamics) than new figures to start over with.

So, they're going to tell us one new thing per week until release?  I didn't catch that they were scheduling it that way.