If poser, max, & maya have separate displacement & bump control, why does Vue 6 not?

Does anyone think it should besides me?  I have in the past used different maps to control both so I wonder if that thinking is a thing of the past with Vue.

Or is it possible that the finalized version of Vue 6 may have separate contol for both?   

Just guessing, but i doubt if it will change in this version. Probably hard enough to get everything working correctly, without adding new features at this point.

Hopefully future versions will have full displacement and normal mapping, such as people use to render million poly models in the display card pipeline, from thousand poly actual 'cage' models.That's something i've seen and read about in other apps, but i'm no expert on it.

For now, i'm just thrilled to be able to make materials that look photoreal at the edges. Seems to me that only the pros that do 3D modeling with displacement mapping need the full displacement tools - though i'd like to learn that eventually, and Silo 3D v2 (my modeler of choice) does support it. 

Maybe I am mising something but I really can't see what is the value of having both bump and displacement activated at the same time for the same material. I know that each effect can (and should) have different bitmaps. I just don't see what is the big deal in having to chose one or the other instead of loading both at the same time. Maybe a Max or Maya user can enlighten us about the benefit of having both maps active at the same time.

Well, I can think of a workaround like: combine my bump map's opacity in a photoshop layer to a degree, so that when it is combined with the displacement map, that also is a layer in photoshop, it will produce the desired results in vue. Agiel, the reason would be more for control for desired effects that is easier to implement. Can you imagine tiles where a bump map is needed to produces small light grit on the tile, and the displacement map produces extreme depth and contour around each tile. The tiling on a bathroom floor is an example. Does this make sense? To me it makes perfect sense. Plus, other apps do it. Would it be hard to let vue do it too? Plus, how can vue interpret poser imports that have seperate displacement & bump maps. jc, it is very exciting. I am very happy with vue 6. There are so many new and improved things.

There is the new Layers system inside the Material Editor. I don't know how that works with the displacement feature of the Material Editor, but it might allow you to do what you are asking about, CobraEye.

Wonder who has experimented with layers and displacement, Sacada?

That is a very good idea. I'll try it. Thank you.

That's a great idea :)
I will give it a try as well once I am done with my current render.

Hope you'll let us all know what you find out.

I think the new layers system is going to be very useful, especially inside EcoSystems, but have not had time yet to experiment with layers.

Yes, it works. From what I gathered, the displacement layer needs to be on top and the bump layer under it for it to work. Thank you.

I am new to the forum and to Vue, has there been a tutorial posted on how to accomplish this? Thanks!

Cobra eye...it works?! Dude, that's awesome.
Can you explain how you did it?

Quote - Maybe I am mising something but I really can't see what is the value of having both bump and displacement activated at the same time for the same material. I know that each effect can (and should) have different bitmaps. I just don't see what is the big deal in having to chose one or the other instead of loading both at the same time. Maybe a Max or Maya user can enlighten us about the benefit of having both maps active at the same time.

To keep resources down to a decent level.  Take fabric with an overlaid pattern for example . You may want the pattern to show displacement, but the actual material itself probably wouldn't need it.

Cheers

Seems like after the last update this trick does not work anymore because some genius made it that the displacement control is either on for all layers or off for all layers.  There is no more independent control of displacement by use of the layers.    How lame.

Now, after the latest update it works again with a new control in the displacement tab. This is good.

Cobra can you detail out how you would go about doing it. I.E a displacement map and a separate bump map?
Thanks

Select an object & edit its material.  Choose a mapping mode.  Add a layer & choose a mapping mode for the new layer.  On the top layer add a bump map and select displacement mapping.  On the 2nd layer add a bump map.  Now go back to the 1st layer and slide a 100% to the add to underlying layer bump slider.    That's it.

Here's a quick example:

If you have displacement as a tool, why would you even use bump mapping?

Now I am sure that render time, is probably a great reason to use bump over displacement, of course.

But if you are going to use one, why are you going to use the other?

Most 3d programs have separate control for bump & displacement because it allows for greater & more subtle control of these attributes.  This way 1 map doesn't have to control two attributes.  

The above pic is a perfect example.  See how the displacement map is causing a smooth cross rise, while the bump map is making the grit?  There is complete control there because the bump can be adjusted without affecting the displacement.

In short, it is for better, easier, & more precise control.

Well said,  Cobra eye. Perfectly explained.

Thank you.

Thank you and you are welcome.