Just passin' through -- checkin' to see if'n this one had been solved sometime during the couple of weeks or so since I last passed this way.

Nope -- It don't look like nothin' has changed.  I thought that traffic circles were only used in Europe -- although I've seen one or two in the New England area.  Those circles are the most amazing things -- you can go 'round and 'round all day -- and get absolutely nowhere in the process.  That is: until you finally decide to turn off.........................

To all, 
   I haven't even read the rest of the threads off this yet but I do get one resounding theme...I may have been a little to harsh.  My apologies, had a very, very, very bad day.  I won't go into details about the why and how but it was bad.  
   Sometimes with my job, you have to take a deep breath and agree or at the very least comply.  Yesterday was a very complying day and I watched people try to pretty much rip a man to shreds, when all the guy ever does is look out for others.  To watch that happen to someone and knowing you can't voice your opinion does.  
   Then the Aiko thing...well it effects the same guy and I keep thinking "wtf" why is it when people try to do the right thing, they're the first to get slammed.  
   Today, he comes in and you swear the guy just one the olympics or something because he wasn't fazed, just kept doing what he always does.
   Now I'll read what else was posted and know that to a degree I probably deserve the slinging that will come my way.  

Dee

Ok, done reading.   The charecter was made to appear young and to not appear young, if asked the same question....I really couldn't give her an age.  Did I try to confuse and confound?  Yes, I did I didn't want the answer to be a simple "yes" or "no" from either side.  I wanted everyone to understand two points:

1.  It's not easy being a Mod
 
2.  This charecter coudl have went either way, had I given her a gun (as one person suggested) the desicion would have been easier.  I picked the clothes to further confound, the plushie to distract and make people assume, the legs and breast for the same reason opposite point.  Determining Aiko's age isn't easy, and with some morphs very, very hard but if the Mods correspond with those put on "Banning/warning" trial, is silly, when they could just as easily remove the image...and state why.  No matter how many times or at very wost a week's banning but permanent?   

To the Mods, if she did not have a top, would I have recieved a warning?  If it had been my third warning and she was topless would I have been permantly banned?

To all, do you think if she was topless and this was my third incident that I should have been permantly banned?

Capn' give the folks a chance to answer/respond and then I think I'm in the need of a kitty break (even tho' Cat's don't support the troops)

cruzin, for the umpteenth time, we do not ban on a first offense, only after repeated education and warnings. In fact most people get far more than three (official) warnings before they are out of the door. We go to huge lengths to avoid banning members, such as asking them to check with us before posting if they are unsure on age. We do not ban lightly and it is not a short process.

If you had rendered this image without a top, then we would be removing it and asking you not to post it again and pointing you to the child nudity guidelines. That's it.

Karen...I know you don't ban on the first offense....read the above question again, I didn't say, nor  did I imply (I like using the word "nor")  I said if this were my THIRD (I put it in caps to be a little snippy because of the upteenth thing and 'cause you don't support the troops) offense would that lead to...

Since it's a hypothetical question, it's one that can't be answered.
Each case is decided on its own merits.

I just want to make it real clear I had nothing to do with this.

Cruzin I'll stand by my decision on your character's age, but I've removed that and every other image of yours from my favorites and deleted my comments from those images.  I can't support this type of behavior. 

I'm not going to say anything else right now.

it's a bit weird seeing all this talk of 12-14-yr-old girls' anatomy. seems to be a sort of unhealthy fixation, like that foley guy who hadda resign from congress in disgrace. :lol: it might be simpler just to ban the aiko character entirely, the way some sites may ban renders of children entirely, to avoid having to address this issue endlessly. actually I dunno any major site where aiko is 100% welcome. I did alotta nude renders of it, but I ain't posting any of 'em here. got some at other sites, but I reckon they looked "adult" to the admins there.

Wow and I dropped out of this way back on page 8! Look, I am going to reiterate my original comment. Why not just ban NUDE A3? That really does solve all the confusion! One person said it would  unfairly restrict everyone or something to that effect...I don't recall who, or exact wording ( so please, I don't need to be acused of accusing, just stating), but that was the jist of the comment. I don't see how a clear cut, no misunderstanding, rule like that would. No one could say it is a prepubescent girl nude anymore...and if small boobs make a little girl, well my neighbor who is 50, would be thrilled!  But seriously, this is the best common sense rule that would work...WHY is this 17 pages when the answer is truly simple? After all at this point it is honestly well known that if you post a nude A3, the chances are VERY high it will get pulled!
Lastly, I find the amount of tension that posts like this generate, really are telling the staff something they should really be listening to. This many people don't get fired up over nothing. So it is obvious it is time for clear rules pertaining to this subject.
Oh I guess I had one more thing....When a comment is made, just because it is a forum on line and not a face to face discussion, some restraint and just plain nice manners would take it a lot further to becomming a productive debate. I see a lot of really angry things said in a lot of these lengthy threads...some, not all, are well you fill in the word(s) that apply to this last staement.
Please...I am making an opinion that I feel could help the site, not to piss anyone off....Clear rules are better than vague comments like..." it depends"...just let that sink in for a moment before lambasting me for my comment.
Ariana*   

gawd... isn't it time this thread should be locked and allowed to die!!!..?!!

Quote - Why not just ban NUDE A3? That really does solve all the confusion!

 

Absolutely it does. And, it has the beauty of being very simple to implement. Unfortunately, someone will come along with a new model, maybe not from DAZ, that has the same problem. Or, to use a pretty silly example, suppose someone makes a lifelike sculpture of a nude child using toothpicks, and posts a photograph of it? Would we then hear a hue and cry to ban images of nudes made from toothpicks? Looked at another way, how can we be sure that any image was made with Aiko? If there was a ban on Aiko but an artist claimed to have used a similar model, wouldn't we have the same confusion all over again?

I just don't see how there can be a ban on a figure, clothed or not, because it doesn't deal with the root problem, which is not showing nudes of children. I can't figure out any way to do that other than to try to look at each image and make a subjective judgment. Which puts right back here in the same ol' comfy boat.

Quote - gawd... isn't it time this thread should be locked and allowed to die!!!..?!!

 

Never, my friend, never! I shall stand at the gates of Perdition itself and defend the right of this thread to live, grow, and be free!

Besides, it's practically become a forum in and of itself. You're witnessing the birth of a new Internet life form, which I hereby name a threadum. I think that may even be Latin, but don't quote me.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

*Captain Jack, I understand now what the problem is...I officially withdraw my comment/suggestion/thought...heck I don't use her much any ways. performs last rites for 'Threadum' may it rest in peace.....

Hey me and the Captain agree...does that mean I don't support the troops.  Damn, I don't support the troops, damn I suck.  I should really support the troops. Ok, I'll support the troops and claim this is some bipartisan thing, yeah, yeah, that's it....ok me and the Captain agree, but I think we should stay there until we achieve complete victory!!!  Oops wrong subject.

Ok, now seriosly.  Captain Jack does make a wonderful point, I'd like to add on it by saying, then what is next?  Animedoll?  The Girl  and Aiko are taboo, so Animedoll is the next step....oooh what about Alexa?  I'm afraid it'll get contagious and just spread and then where I be able to see Big Boob Vicki in temple with Sword? YOU TELL ME AMERICA, WHERE?!

I also seemed to have offended CrimsonDesire, that wasn't my intent, my intent then was Captain Jack and the other guy (to which I apologized for).

CrimsonDesire has proven to be pro anime but has come into this with solutions and impartiality...most of us seem to be on one side of the fence or the other. 

and people sit back in amazement. what garbage

billy

Quote - Hey me and the Captain agree...does that mean I don't support the troops.  Damn, I don't support the troops, damn I suck.  I should really support the troops. Ok, I'll support the troops and claim this is some bipartisan thing, yeah, yeah, that's it....ok me and the Captain agree, but I think we should stay there until we achieve complete victory!!!  Oops wrong subject.

Of course, I'm not a supporter of early withdrawal in every case-- oh, wait, that's yet a third subject...

Quote - I also seemed to have offended CrimsonDesire, that wasn't my intent, my intent then was Captain Jack and the other guy (to which I apologized for).

And I should apologize for getting unnecessarily snippy... possibly too much caffeine on these cold, wintry days. 

Hey Jack, you seen V4 yet? Read a lot of comments on how young she looks!! :)

Quote - Hey Jack, you seen V4 yet? Read a lot of comments on how young she looks!! :)

 

Goodie! More grist for this here mill, that is.

Uh, oh.   NO V4 nudes!!!! unless she has fairy wings

'Kays betters and thanx cruzin for talking with me tonight.  And I do think some progress has been made, but it's not an easy process.  I do think it's important to keep trying to clear confusion.  

Alot of people still seem to be under the impression that even the basic no morphs applied A3 can't be nude, but if I read correctly my understanding is that's not the case, so that's something.  And I think it stands to reason that some of the morphs can be applied safely.

In total agreement with the above but I think some really good guidance needs to be given on Aiko and the Girl.  Right now it's vague because it's based on opinion, not on facts.  Such as:

Mods: it looks like a little girl

Artist:  Hey the charecter is anime/sci fi/fairy and in this setting it's an adult....

Now not to step on any toes...the mods are the voice of opinion, and the artist the voice of fact (because the artist created it, only the artist would know what the true age of the charecter is)

Problem is the guildlines are based on the opinions of a few....but that few seems to be a majority of the mods.  If an image has 100 views and one person hits the report button it's safe to say that a majority of the viewers didn't take offense or see the charecter as a child, but then the Mods come in and the image is gone and if this is the artist 3rd time...so is the artist (btw very weak answer Karen....it should have been cut and dry as the TOS states...I'll touch on that down below).

Now with the image I posted and follow up question:

If this was an artist third time and the charecter was topless would the artist be banned?

Karen stated it was a hypothetical situation so it can't be answered....although the mods have stated several times that third strike and you're out forever.   Why is there now a change in the position where it's a "case by case" basis.  The strong line of three strikes you're out has changed...why?  Is it because even though the same person said this was clearly an underage girl but now jumps to the "case by case basis"....I could write forever on this, but I'd like others to form their own opinions, since I can't post my resume....

I can connect all the dots, but I'm trying to "dumb" things down as much as possible and be brief....which until now, I never knew it was that hard (or maybe I'm just long winded).  LOL

Peace, love and Chicken grease!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/tos.php

What she meant was each image and/or offense (not just gallery infractions are part of the TOS violation package) is taken on a case-by-case basis.  Each time, we link said offender to the TOS.  We expect *everyone* to read them...not just those that get caught violating the TOS.  You agree to abide by them when you create your account.  I know I've linked to it on at least 3 occasions in this thread alone, and here is the fourth.  My suggestion is to READ the TOS.  Please.  'Sall I'm askin'.  Then, when you still have questions (because you probably will, I expect that), please, feel free to ask questions, instead of the same one over and over.  I know, some statements made on the internet are open to interpretation.  We can't hear vocal inflections, therefore some things become confusing.  But one thing that really gets people into trouble is the reading into something of something that isn't there, and then taking it as gospel.  Read.  Get clarification.  Then, go forth and spread joy at the fact that you've got clarification ;) (ok, maybe a bit silly)

I persnally like the "Sall I'm asking" that had me LFMAO, can't believe I've never thought of that.  I've read the TOS, several, serveral times...and several more since this thread (picked that baby apart as much as I could) but this thread wouldn't exist if some of us thought we needed clarification on those models and possibly future ones.  The TOS is specific but the interpretation of it by all (Mods included) is what is muddled.  
I'd love to go through this whole thread again and pull out quotes from "the establishment" which seems to have muddled the whole thing up more.  I don't think this threadom would have lasted as long as it has if clearer guidance had been given.

But like I said before, I don't envy y'alls (see I can do it too) position, taint easy (oooh did it again, gold star!).  I think a lot of times you all get stuck with "yes I was speeding but there were two guys who flew past me" I also think that often times the traffic is slow and the one guy who is doing the speed limit gets pulled over....and there are too numerous times when two streets with the same amount of traffic, side by side in one the speed limit is 50 in the other it's 25.....I call those streets Vicky Big Bood and Sword Avenue and Aiko road...

I was going to attempt to write something witty but "Sall" still has me cracking up.

I'm about to write something that is going to sound stupid....but please bear with me.

"A signed model release with Photo-ID must be provided upon request if posting images with photographic nudes."

So I send a release in, the model in 25 but she looks 13, I put nude photos of her up.  People think she's 13, there's an uproar, the staff says no she 25 we have a photo ID.

So because the mods know the girl is not a girl and she in fact is a woman, it's good. Even though the report button is hit once a day, the Mods know.

Someone give me a yes or no.

So what if I told the Mods my charecter is of age....I mean since I created her only I would know her age, or perhaps on my render I left some text indicating the charecters age.  Then the Mods would know I'm depicting a charecter over the age 18 and that's all that matters if the answer to the above question is yes.

Because in the end, what you find more offensive a real life woman you thought was a underage nude or a 3D charecter you thought was an LFMAO underage nude?

Did you hear that?  All net...3 points!

I wouldn't presume to speak for the site moderators of admin. but going  by what has been discussed in this thread previously and also the TOS, I'd guess that the answer to your first question Cruzin would be yes, the picture of the girl who might to many appear to be underage but was in fact over the age of eighteen with verfiable ID would probably be allowed to remain, despite complaints unless it could be proven that it violates the TOS in some other way.

And I'm afraid in answer to the second part of the question, putting a notification or disclamer saying something like "All models dibicted are over the age of eighteen" or something isn't what the staff considers sufficiant evidence.  In fact, Primal, who started this thread, stated in opening statement that he'd put such a clarrification in the text for his render to avoid confusion saying that the model he was using was in fact an adult.

The difference being of course that a real life model can be asked for and have her age verfied through a photo ID.  A 3-D character of course cannot (I really ought to do a render with A3 proudly holding up an ID card saying she's eighteen or something.. like that heh).  So in those cases the moderators are once again forced to fall back on how the picture appears to a majority of them and decide if the image remains or is taken down on that basis.

That is why establishing ways to morph A3 in ways that are going to satify the need for artisic expression and at the same time keeping her apperance over eighteen is important in terms of giving people the ability to use that as a tool in there artwork and at the same time not creat a situation where the site could come under fire from it's sponsers for fostering underage or potential underage dibictions of characters and or situations.

In a previous post you used the example of a police officer pulling over a speeder and the speeder complaining to the officer that the reason they were speeding is that everyone else was going fast.  I would suspect the officer in question would probably explain to the speeder that simply because other people around you are breaking the law is not an excuse to do the same.

As it relates to the galleries here, one would relate it in terms of if someone sees a 3-d character or a photo were the models or persons appear to them to be possibly or obviously underage, it would not justify that individual putting up a image they themselves thought might be called into question simply because they feel someone else might have gotten away with it.

I realize from speaking with some members in private and also from what has been said and expressed here that there are some, perhaps many, who feel that certian areas of the site and/or certian galleries are possibly being favored in respect to this issue, while other galleries and members may have taken the brunt of the punishment dolled out, particullary during the transition period or "May Purge" as I will still refer to it.

Certianly it's possible that given the sheer volume of daily work combined with the crises situation might perhaps have effected the decision making process.  If such is the case I would certianly hope that their would perhaps be some introspection, review, and possible clemency for those individuals.  It is a little disturbing to hear stories about the number of people effected in a compartivily short time frame.

I do also think that personal responsibility on the part of an artist is important.  I am reasonably sure that their were those who submitted images they knew might be called into question, even being aware that it might mean a perminant ban from the site instead of first submitting it by e-mail privatly for approval or disapproval.  It is also important to remember those, however, who submited their images in good faith, honestly believing they were in full TOS compliance, and who because of past mistakes or indescretions where then banned, especially in the confused period following the shifts in site policy.

And one other thing I think is imporant for folks to remember here.  It's not just Anime or any other type of art or gallery that has been effected by this, although certianly the Anime genre seems to have been hardest hit.  There have been cases mentioned that had nothing to do with either A3 or the anime field.

So for people to shrug their shoulders and think, "Well it doesn't really effect me 'cause I hardly use A3 and I don't like anime" is both short sided and foolish in my opinion.

Many of those standing in the van guard and holding the line for the rest of the galleries may favor the anime field and or characters like A3 or the Girl, but it's incredibly naive I think for people to suppose that if that front collapses that someone might not be knocking on the door to their choosen field of art next.  So go ahead and continue to hide behind a veneer of smug and self-secure apathy if you will.  Thing is, one day those people may wake up to find there is nobody left or willing to fight for them when it's their turn to face the music.

Damn, Crimson makes so much sense.   Gotta love a thinker.  

We are never going to come to a compromise on what makes Aiko and the Girl "too young".

Yet can we just come to one as far a the permanent ban issue? 

A week ban each offense, sounds good to me, (oops after the second warning). 

Also, those guys who were banned should be allowed to come join the fold again.....I would name 6 off the top of my head but we can't name names.  Those who on their last few renders were banned because of either Aiko or the Girl.

                                                    or

Just ban nude Aiko and the Girl completely, that way you don't have to ask the above to rejoin...or in most cases un suspend their accounts...at least five of those guys I mentioned above still have their profiles listed here...just they're galleries are gone.

Of course if someone post a nude Maddie on some man's lap or doing something blatently sexual, yes ban away and throw away the key (the same for Laurie) but in the case of those banned artist that I know this wasn't the case, except for my bud who does admit he posted a nude Millineum girl in a cloning tank (it was later removed and modified so she had clothes on) but that was a simple "oops never read the TOS mistake a long time ago.  

Come on....

Hey!...Thread....Threadom......Dude..are you dead yet?

Problem is, there are no objective guidelines for the age of meshes. If I post accurate renders of a mesh modeled after my ex wife, they'd be taken down, claimed to be underage when the mesh is of a woman who was well over 30. She was very young looking and flat chested and flat assed and looked quite young. You can ask stacy about that, she's seen a render, and taken it down. I'm not terribly sensitive about it, nor do I want to see child porn. I frankly think the uproar over the age of meshes in 3D renderings is a little silly. But if one HAS to judge the age of a mesh,  I would tend to favor the side of the artist. Yes, Aiko is a child like model. HOWEVER, she's an anime character, and anime women are traditionally very schoolgirl looking. Re: Sailor Moon or Bubblegum Crisis or a thousand others. Nudity is also traditional in many anime. And if you've ever been to Japan you know that schoolgirl look is also very popular in real life, among women who are far over the age of majority.

Still, I think unless a mesh is obviously a child the whole issue is rather damned absurd.

Quote - In a previous post you used the example of a police officer pulling over a speeder and the speeder complaining to the officer that the reason they were speeding is that everyone else was going fast.  I would suspect the officer in question would probably explain to the speeder that simply because other people around you are breaking the law is not an excuse to do the same.

 

Which reminds me of this old gem:

A man was speeding down the highway, feeling secure in a gaggle of cars all traveling at the same speed.  However, as they passed a speed trap, he got nailed with an infrared speed detector and was pulled over.

The officer handed him the citation, received his signature and was about to walk away when the man asked, "Officer, I know I was speeding, but I don't think it's fair - there were plenty of other cars around me going just as fast, so why did I get the ticket?"

"Ever go fishing?" the policeman suddenly asked the man.

"Ummm, yeah..." the startled man replied.

The officer grinned and added, "Ever catch all the fish?" 

> Quote - Hey!...Thread....Threadom......Dude..are you dead yet?

Giggle

More kitten sillyness! ^^

Put on a more serious note:

To Cruzin:  On the issue of possibly allowing some clemency in terms of members who were banned to return, particularilly in regard to this issue I'd there's a few things I'd like to say.

• As has been pointed out throughout this thread, the decision to ban these individuals was not one that was made lightly and occured only after repeated violations of the TOS and after all the previous steps were taken to both curb future transgressions, and to allow the members in question a chance to continue in the Community.

Having said that, I would point out the following, but I ask everyone to bear in mind that the information to hand is limited and also being viewed subjectivily.  In other words I could point to a wall that was white and claim that it was light grey and argue about it until I was blue in the face, but that wouldn't neccessarilly change the actuall color of the wall.

The bans that were made, in the purest technical terms, were as I understand it made with justification and with due process.  This is with the understanding that every member who signs up for an account here does read and agree to the TOS and with the process of warnings and if neccessary a temperary ban being done prior to a actuall life-long ban.  The changes made to the TOS in regard to potential underage nudity are provided for in the orginal TOS so in the purest technical terms the actions taken are wholly justifed by the TOS contract which was signed by everyone.

There are a few things I think which need to be considered.  The system of warnings/temp bans/ and or final bans is set up on a cumulative bases, and has no statuet of limitations.  As I understand it in some if not many cases this proved to be a problem for some of the members who were banned because previous incidents that happend years prior to the ones that cost them their memberships and may well have been completly unrated were counted up against them.  It's my opinion that it might be better to revamp the system a bit so that at some point these older warnings or incidents are no longer counted up against a member possibly being banned for example.  Of course, I also think there should probably be some exceptions to this, and in all cases that while the cumulative effect would be removed, that it would remain on the member's record for reasons discussed previously in this thread.

I'm not by the way suggesting a short period of time before that cumalitve effect would be removed, but after for example a year it might be reasonable to consider it.  Ultamitly I think this would give the moderators and administration more power to act in cases without neccessarilly resorting to the step of perminate banning, because it would mean one could once again issue either a fresh warning or temporary ban, again letting the person know this was not acceptable, without having because of the cumulative effect of old offenses having to go right away to a perminant ban.

I do think that sometimes people can make comparitivly minor mistakes often unrelated to each other and spread far apart and that that needs to be a consideration.  Let me give a personal example of what I mean.  Last night I saw a render that featured a old song title as it's own title.  I rather liked it and since the song itself is very old I thought I'd quote it's lyrics from memory for those not familiar with them.

This morning I recieved both a e-mail and a PM from this site basicly saying that I needed to remove the post with the lyrics for copy right reasons.  I completly understand where they're coming from and will do so later today but at the time it never occured to me that it would be an issue, an honest enough oversight I think on my part.  Weather or not this counts as an official warning on my record wasn't really made clear to me, I'm going to ask for clarrification in fact, but let's assume for a moment that it was.

Now let's also pretend hypothetically that the one render of A3 I have up that has nudity involved in it is removed for something like potential underage nudity (it hasn't been and won't be I don't think since there are no morphs to A3 at all so by the moderator's own statements she qualifies as being adult, but let's pretend for a moment).  Okay, so now I have two strikes against me.  I go through my ban period, come back and commen sense says at that point that I should tread very carefully if I want to stay a member here.

So for the next year or so I keep my nose clean, I'm very carefull stop leaving comments on other people's works at all keep to myself, etc. etc.  So now it's a year or two after all this has occurred.  Now let's say one day I do something else unrelated in nature to the first two offenses that violates the TOS or a change to the TOS in some way.  Say for example there was a policy change that now says we're no longer allowed to show a particular type of armor (I use alot of armor props in my stuffs) because it's been deemed inappropiate for whatever reason or something.  So I post an image with that armor, maybe I just missed the e-mail or what have you telling me about it, point is it's now up in the galleries.  It gets removed, and because of the two previous and unrelated marks on my record that happened years prior to this, It's my third strike.

That raises some concern because while the situation I've posted is relativily hypothetical there are have been serveral actuall cases mentioned that might fall into this sort of catagory.

I also think that if some members are allowed back, that it would probably have to be on something like a probational membership.  This would mean for example that certain safe-guards would have to be in place.  For example they would not be permited to post any images at all to the galleries without submiting them first to a moderator, even if the content was obviously 100% withen the TOS guidlines they would still have to submit it for approval first before it could even be posted.  That's one example of a possible restriction perhaps after a certian amount of time when the member on probation had proved themselves worthy of the freedom that comes with regular membership they could then be restored, which I think would give them something to work for and more reason to cooperate as well.

I'm sure there would be some that if such an offer was made might reject it as being insulting or being made to feel like criminals, but I also think that with reasonable terms for probationary re-instatement some people who genuinly care about the site and would like another chance might take it.

Anyways something to think about.

To Bonestructure: I would agree it can be a frustrating issue, but not I think an unsurmountable one, or else I wouldn't still be here talking trying to find away to better clarrify and compromise on things with everyone.  Oh, and one small correction, Sailor Moon if I recall correctly has the main characters like Serena (IE Sailor Moon) in highschool, although there were a couple EPs towards the end of the series where the Sailor Scouts did meet older versions of themselves.  I'm not sure about BubbleGum Crises, I've heard the name but I'm not familar with the particular anime.

While there are certianly quite a number of animes that deal with younger based characters, their are also a fair number of animes that deal with compartivily mature adults and are more adult orientated in theme.  To name some recent examples that have appeared in the US: Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.  Witch Hunter Robin.  Wolf's Reign (I'm pretty sure I got the name wrong I only got to see one EP but the one I did see was very brutal and action based and also brought me to tears with one scene in which one of the characters is killed falling from a building during an attack).  Those are some that have been around awhile but are still compartivily recent here in the US.

Most anime characters are generally geared towards their target audience in terms of characters.  So for example Sailor Moon which was aimed at the younger female audienceand used a group of girls as it's main characters with enough variety withen the group to allow for the different personalities it was meant to appeal to, and the supporting cast of characters was built to compliment that primary group.

The various Dragonball series were meant to appeal primarilly to the young male crowd, and so most of the characters tend to be ampified personifications of various traits that crowd would find appealing.

By comparison, Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex was meant to appeal to a older audience, primary adult, and in fact many of the traditional younger anime US fan base found it boring and unappealing because of it's general focus longer plots and dialoge and compartivily brief action sequences.

So there's certianly a variety of different styles of anime and character out there.  ^^

"I'm not by the way suggesting a short period of time before that cumalitve effect would be removed, but after for example a year it might be reasonable to consider it. "

That sounds reasonable to me

By the way, it's not a copyright violation to quote lyrics as long as the name of the composer and the name of the song are credited and the lyrics are not used in a disrespectful manner. As a writer, who now and then quotes lyrics and passages from books and such, I've had to learn about this aspect.

I too use song lyrics as discriptions for some of my images, but have never been told to remove them. Maybe Its because the Mods have never heard of the artists I quote from! :)

I did see a comment somewhere that it was OK to use a couple of line from the lyrics but not whole verses or whatever. I don't know if that is correct or not but there was a long thread in the copyright forum some time ago.

I read somewhere you could use 2 verses, or 1 verse and the chorus.

Renderosity allows 1 verse max for song lyrics. afaik, songs have two copyrights, one being the lyrics, the other bring for musical composition

And just for the record so it doesan't get confusing I'm not disputing that at all and in fact the lyrics were taken down by me shortly after posting here.

I always did like you Captain Jack,

You are one of the good guys.

Tom

Oh! The little kitten is petting the ducky! Cuteness! ^^

I'm going to make this brief as possible (just had another 18 day....yay Marine Corps)

I like all of Crimson's ideas they make sense.  I'm pretty sure no matter what is posted the Mods can guess the intent...most of the time.  

A permanent ban I think should be used in only extreme cases.  I won't paint the picture but I'm pretty sure you all know what I mean by extreme.

There was a purge here...seemed to span from April-July (I used to look at the sight throught someone else's account...I hate giving my email out).  Some of these may have been justifiable but others...

I can't recall which but I'm guesing Stacy said she had corresponded with one such banned member and said for the most part he was amiable.  He too, says he didn't agree but understood the reason behind a temporary ban...(key words: didn't agree but understood), unfortunately it was his thrid time, the first being over a year and the second a month or so prior.  He agreed with the first one, just as the case with Crimson...it was one of those "oops yeah, I should have known better, took the render down and reposted it TOS compliant.  

The second, didn't agree.

The third really didn't agree at all (even though now he grudgingly sees why it could have gone either way)

One of the mods stated he was amiable even after his permanent ban...what upset him most is that he felt he was being accused of pedophilia...we can all say "no he wasn't" but to be permantly banned from a site for posting underage images....well what would you think if you were just an observer.  

I know what I thought  "damn, you gots problems" until he showed me the three renders that caused his permanent banning....yup like he said, first one just wrong...yeah if you take it in context you understand why, made sense...still dead wrong.  2nd...I still don't see anything wrong with that one...the third I finally saw a few days ago....yeah it can go either way.

Then there are the artist I don't know face to face, same thing with the Girl being the subject of the render, one of which was a well known vendor and at one point erased her whole gallery because...haven't seen her post anything new in awhile....probably got caught in the purge.

I have two other people I know who also were caught in the "purge"...one similar to the above situations...the other well let's just say I don't know what she was smoking but there was no attempt to even comply a little, beautiful compostition but the subject...way wrong.

Since I still work with her, I'm not going to say anything harsh because like others she probably has a "secret account" here too.  But if I didn't know who she was personally...

Are the times for a permanent ban?  Yes!

Should their be a probationary period for some of those (like not posting anything for a period of time but still be allowed to use the Marketplace) come on, the bucks supporting the site.

Of course I'm focusing on two  models...Aiko and the Girl...but like Capn' said whose next?  What new model will be considered "bad"?

I still hate kitties and still support the troops...tired me go sleep.

Quote - I still hate kitties and still support the troops...tired me go sleep.

 

However, the kitties love you, and they support the troops too, in their own little way. Sleep well, cruzin, and remember that tomorrow is, as always, another day.

Kitties *DO* support the troops.

 

I saw it on the internet, so it must be true.

Tom 

I can't believe this is still going on.

Back in the day,cruzin and his partner seek out and detain suspected non-troop supporting kitties for questioning.

 

This one here...in fact, did not support the troops. There are always the few, that give the others a bad reputation.

 

8 )

 

Tom

The mice, of course, were delighted

Quote - I can't believe this is still going on.

 

  Never give in! Never give in! Never, never, never, never -- in nothing great or small, large or petty.
    -- Winston Churchill

  Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.
    -- Thomas Alva Edison

  Persistence is to the character of man as carbon is to steel.
    -- Napoleon Hill

  When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on.
    -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Long live the threadum! May it's shores be ever laden with ships, may its pastures be ever green, may it's sheep be ever plentiful, may its hopes and dreams be the light and hope and crowning glory of our great civilization! Never say die, never give up, post and post and post some more!

:lol: giggle :lol:

oh this thread isn't even close to getting the record

Is that mouse naked? How old is it?? :)

I recognize that mouse as one that Boney has had it for over 19 years.

 

 So..... "Sall good-n-da hood".

 

Tom <~~(Used the word "Sall") 

cool

Excuse me, forgive me if I'm being a pain in someone's shiney hiney again, I was going to let this drop actually, but it struck me that my question regarding our "member record" still has not been answered.

Will and does Renderosity allow the member themselves too review such records being kept on them?

And if so, what is the official policy for  review of such records by the member?

Stating that if we keep any communications we have with the admins pertaining too breaking a rule etc...we have the "record" is not an answer to that question as any communications we might have, may not nessicarily contain any other "notes" a moderator or admin has placed in such a "record".